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When I get a Faerie-Walker I can die happy.
A new way to mess with the graveyard in modern.
It's probably not going to be a backdoor Lorwyn, considering that Maro has confirmed that it is a new plane.
MaRo has said that part of that was a problem, but "standard unpopularity" isn't the dealbreaker we think - after all we returned to Mirrodin which also had a wild, swingy powerlevel and miserable unfun standard format with the most Standard bannings in MTG history, and Kaladesh has a reasonable shot at a return despite the same problem.Krishnath wrote: ↑4 years agoIt's probably not going to be a backdoor Lorwyn, considering that Maro has confirmed that it is a new plane.
As for Lorwyn itself, it had some problems, but the lack of humans wasn't it. The primary problems with Lorwyn (a set I very much enjoyed) was that one tribe was so over powered compared to the others that it warped standard to such an extent that 80% of the decks played said tribe. It didn't help that some of the mechanics were quite a bit less than stellar (such as Clash, *cough*), and the Kithkin were so far into the uncanny valley that a lot of people were turned off the set. The lack of intertribal connectivity in draft also caused some issues, basically if you didn't draft one of the good tribes or got shafted with the one you picked, then you would simply lose without having a ghost of a chance. There were basically four tribes that were worth drafting: Faeries, Merfolk, Goblins, and Elves, draft anything else, and you'd end up losing. The powerlevels were all over the place.
Still it did have good points, other than the vivid lands, the lands were good, and the good mechanics (such as Changeling and Evoke) were excellent. The counter subtheme was also well executed.
I agree completely. Both Kamigawa and Lorwyn eights on the "Rabiah Scale", which makes them possible but unlikely. Mercadia is a nine because let's face it, it was bad (and should feel bad). We are more likely to get a visit to those planes in a supplementary product rather than a standard legal one. That is not necessarily a bad thing, as we've gotten several references to Kamigawa in the commander (and planechase) sets, and Modern Horizons had a reference to Segovia of all places. I think a return to Kamigawa is going to happen eventually, particularly since our one named planeswalker from the plane has started to become fairly popular (Tamiyo is awesome). But if we return to there, it will without a doubt be a more modern take on the plane, with less parasitic mechanics and tribes. As for Lorwyn, it still leaves a bitter taste in many older players mouths, because it brings back memories of the Kithkin and the overpowered Faeries. But I think we will see it sprinkled in here and there, particularly in core sets. Part of Nissa's story from Origin's was set on the plane after all, and I have zero doubt that it will show up in Commander from time to time (without counting the vivid lands getting reprinted over and over).Hawk wrote: ↑4 years agoMaRo has said that part of that was a problem, but "standard unpopularity" isn't the dealbreaker we think - after all we returned to Mirrodin which also had a wild, swingy powerlevel and miserable unfun standard format with the most Standard bannings in MTG history, and Kaladesh has a reasonable shot at a return despite the same problem.Krishnath wrote: ↑4 years agoIt's probably not going to be a backdoor Lorwyn, considering that Maro has confirmed that it is a new plane.
As for Lorwyn itself, it had some problems, but the lack of humans wasn't it. The primary problems with Lorwyn (a set I very much enjoyed) was that one tribe was so over powered compared to the others that it warped standard to such an extent that 80% of the decks played said tribe. It didn't help that some of the mechanics were quite a bit less than stellar (such as Clash, *cough*), and the Kithkin were so far into the uncanny valley that a lot of people were turned off the set. The lack of intertribal connectivity in draft also caused some issues, basically if you didn't draft one of the good tribes or got shafted with the one you picked, then you would simply lose without having a ghost of a chance. There were basically four tribes that were worth drafting: Faeries, Merfolk, Goblins, and Elves, draft anything else, and you'd end up losing. The powerlevels were all over the place.
Still it did have good points, other than the vivid lands, the lands were good, and the good mechanics (such as Changeling and Evoke) were excellent. The counter subtheme was also well executed.
Flavor was a big problem - MaRo has said Kithkin uncanny valley was bad, and that "no humans" was for sure bad - we on the internet may be fine but the average player likes humans in their set. It's also a bit of a flavor/story/top-down disconnect - part of the charm of fairy tales is seeing average humans learn from, outwit, slay, or get poetic ironic comeuppance from mystical forces like Fairys and Witches and Dragons and Demons, and a world without Humans can't deliver on that very well.
It also had the problem that limited was absolutely paralyzing for less-experienced players, especially with the second sets in the mix. It felt nigh-impossible to draft cohesive decks, it required committing to a tribe and praying it was open because being in the wrong tribe was death, and once you were playing the format was an intrinsic, mind-busting puzzle of math every single turn (how many fairys and merfolk do I control for Silvergill Douser? Did I miss any changelings in that accounting? Is that enough to save me if my opponent controls Mad Auntie for their 3/3 goblin and might also have a Blades of Velis Vel to let it get pumped by Incandescent Soulstoke too?)
All that being said, they've also learned that Lorwyn has a much, much stronger fanbase than other sets that get flack (Kamigawa, Mercadia), so I strongly doubt this is "Lorwyn rebooted" and don't think it totally kills us seeing Lorwyn again.
Important clarification from MaRo:Jace wrote: ↑4 years agoIf this is the Fairy Tale World with Faeries... it's a win. I hope it will have strong Celtic/European influences in the setting as Lorwyn did. Essentially more focus on human interactions with the fantasy elements, as opposed to being as foreign as Lorwyn sometimes could by lacking the human element. I have a feeling we may get our Faerie planeswalker here. The story may be self-contained as well, which I welcome. Adding humans and more high fantasy elements to Lorwyn to achieve this makes a lot of sense. It's what gives us a good foundation for delivering Fairy Tale tropes without fundamentally changing Lorwyn.
I do think they should avoid taking this approach with a Japan World plane, and actually re-structure Kamigawa instead. It makes sense to pass on Lorwyn in favor of a more appropriate setting, due to lack of humans. But Kamigawa is Japan World, and is expected to be different now.
Fae, Knights, Kings, Queens, Romance, and drama. Eldraine, here we come! :D
Mark Rosewater wrote: theycallmejokke asked: Maro why is my twitter feed exploding with talk about faries???
Because the card/invitation we made announcing the October set has a picture of Faeries on it. Since that was the only hint about the world beside the name, the assumption was made the Faeries must matter a lot to the world. They're there. There are Faeries in the set, but nowhere at the volume or importance that people seem to be assuming. That's why all the Faerie talk. I promise on Saturday at the Magic panel, I will make it clear what Throne of Eldraine is about.
Yes, I did read that and it makes sense - I imagine the theme of the plane is Fairy Tale and/or Arthurian tropes, an aspect of which is Fae. I don't anticipate a heavy tribal element, so Faeries will appear, probably in respectable numbers, but not Lorwyn levels. Instead, the set will be more about delivering various flavor points, such as Knights, Witches, Wizards, royalty, Dragons etc. I do expect a Legendary Faerie, possibly a Faerie Planeswalker. And lets not forget the Fairy Godmother trope.Hawk wrote: ↑4 years agoImportant clarification from MaRo:Jace wrote: ↑4 years agoIf this is the Fairy Tale World with Faeries... it's a win. I hope it will have strong Celtic/European influences in the setting as Lorwyn did. Essentially more focus on human interactions with the fantasy elements, as opposed to being as foreign as Lorwyn sometimes could by lacking the human element. I have a feeling we may get our Faerie planeswalker here. The story may be self-contained as well, which I welcome. Adding humans and more high fantasy elements to Lorwyn to achieve this makes a lot of sense. It's what gives us a good foundation for delivering Fairy Tale tropes without fundamentally changing Lorwyn.
I do think they should avoid taking this approach with a Japan World plane, and actually re-structure Kamigawa instead. It makes sense to pass on Lorwyn in favor of a more appropriate setting, due to lack of humans. But Kamigawa is Japan World, and is expected to be different now.
Fae, Knights, Kings, Queens, Romance, and drama. Eldraine, here we come! :D
Mark Rosewater wrote: theycallmejokke asked: Maro why is my twitter feed exploding with talk about faries???
Because the card/invitation we made announcing the October set has a picture of Faeries on it. Since that was the only hint about the world beside the name, the assumption was made the Faeries must matter a lot to the world. They're there. There are Faeries in the set, but nowhere at the volume or importance that people seem to be assuming. That's why all the Faerie talk. I promise on Saturday at the Magic panel, I will make it clear what Throne of Eldraine is about.
As Maro dislikes politics in the game, I don't think we will see conspiracy like themes in the set. Maybe Monarch at the most.motleyslayer wrote: ↑4 years agoIt seems like i could be a high fantasy set mixed with almost like a Conspiracy type political theme. I liked a lot of the Conspiracy themes
Considering that Tribal is a discontinued mechanic a reprint is nearly impossible.vandertroll wrote: ↑4 years agoHigh fantasy / fairy tale world is one of my favorite themes. I hope they reprint Bitterblossom as well!
I can't see them doing either with Dreadhorde Invasion in standard.CalebLost wrote: ↑4 years agoConsidering that Tribal is a discontinued mechanic a reprint is nearly impossible.vandertroll wrote: ↑4 years agoHigh fantasy / fairy tale world is one of my favorite themes. I hope they reprint Bitterblossom as well!
A functional reprint may be possible, but its powerlevel may be a bit too high for standard.
Him disliking politics just means that he doesn't like to play sets and formats that have a heavy political element. Thus, he does not enjoy playing Conspiracy or Commander. That does not mean that he is incapable of designing political cards. But since he is very excited for this set, it is unlikely to have a political element. Not that a political element makes a lick of sense for a standard legal set anyway since they are by definition designed for two players dueling rather than multiplayer.folding_music wrote: ↑4 years agoI always find this discouraging! As interested as I am to see how the new set pans out, I think of Rosewater as being one of the major millstones hanging around Magic's neck making sure it never truly expresses anything.
Yes. Yeeeeeessssss.vandertroll wrote: ↑4 years agoHigh fantasy / fairy tale world is one of my favorite themes. I hope they reprint Bitterblossom as well!
Honestly i'm feeling the same. This announcement brought me nothing.