MTGNexus

TheGildedGoose wrote: ↑

2 years ago

Proxies are fine. Problematic play isn't.

I do think allowing newer players unfettered access to the full suite of Magic's arsenal has drawbacks, but they're far outclassed by the pros to a more egalitarian player field.

Pretty much my thoughts on the matter. I have no proxies myself, but I'm the lone 'pure player' vote at the moment. I largely read Dirk's description as hyperbole since, if playing is the ultimate goal, there's obviously no distinction to be made between proxies* and real cards. Sort of like the difference between atheist and anti-theist.

*To caveat, whenever I think of proxies I think of high-quality ones that resemble the real card, except for some distinguishing feature (set symbol, card back) that clearly marks it as fake.

Myllior wrote: ↑

2 years ago

I have no proxies myself, but I'm the lone 'pure player' vote at the moment. I largely read Dirk's description as hyperbole since, if playing is the ultimate goal, there's obviously no distinction to be made between proxies* and real cards. Sort of like the difference between atheist and anti-theist.

Indeed. I may well have been overthinking the options when I cast my "player" vote. (I know I have a tendency to do that.) Though, part of it is that I do have a degree of emotional attachment to the "real" cards that it feels somewhat disingenuous to ignore. But, at the same time, I have played with people who have 100% proxy decks and been perfectly content with that scenario, so maybe I should have gone with "pure player" as well. Pity we can't change our votes.

Updated poll to enable vote changing. Surprised that's not enabled by default.

It's looking like a very regular curve tbh. Guess I nailed it on the criteria to see such a nice distribution :D

I'm a cowardly soft collector. I believe people should only play what they've earned, and I really dislike proxies, but I never act on it.

1) i am.gonna say that in the case of my dragon deck. I do need the dual lands in order for it to function.

2) of not for scarcity of some cards and costs of others. I wouls say no proxies. But sadly that os not the world we live in. So i say use proxies. If WotC won't give us access to cards. Then make em yourself.

I have never been of the mind that pay-to-win is an acceptable part of any game. I don't believe that any particular card should be worth more than some trivial amount of money. Should game pieces cost money? Sure. Should some of them be hundreds or thousands of dollars? Absolutely not.

That said, I am a collector, and I have a pride of ownership. I just believe that access should be easier for many things, and deeply unfortunate reprint policies hurt the game regardless of how durdly or streamlined your decks are.

I like the duality idea of collector game vs game piece game (in fact I think I touched on it on my gold border card discussion so long ago). Continuing that train of thought, though, both games are not equal.

Game piece game is a game, and as a game a fundamental requirement is that the rules must be agreed upon and followed. If someone doesn't follow the agreed-upon rules, the game cannot be played.

Calling the collector game a game sets up a bit of a false dichotomy imo. Collection hobbies are the sort of things that everybody creates their own rules. Some people want the monetary collections (seeing numbers go up), some people want to have an exhaustive collection of format staples, heck there's even that one guy who has that impossibly large collection of stone rains.

I wouldn't go to a car show and complain that the 70's mustang (or whatever, not really a classic car guy!) isn't using original paint. And I'm sure there are people who rely on after-market parts to complete their build because authenticity isn't as important to them.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, how you play the collector game is a personal decision. And like most personal decisions, it's only polite to keep them to yourself and not push it on others. With that said, I own every card I play with, without exception. I binder proxy out of necessity only (if the card market crashes tomorrow I'd be ecstatic at not having to binder proxy any more). At the same time, I don't care at all whether other players proxy or not, as long as the proxying doesn't interfere with the game piece game we are trying to play.

Hmm, I landed in Neutral for this vote. On the subject of proxies, which I think is sort of tangental to the main issue, I really don't care about proxies that much but it does irritate me if someone proxies a 3k deck. All the original duals, reserve list cards, mana crypt, etc... and proceeds to smash face with it. I never proxy anything myself. Largely because I don't have a great printer and I don't like the idea of a hand written or poorly done home-printed card in my deck. I'm a bit OCD when it comes to aesthetics for my own decks. Deck sleeves, playmats, dice and boxes have to match the deck in some way.

I don't have any other real investments nor do I ever plan on dabbling in stocks or things like that. I just don't have a lot of expendable income. So, it's nice to see cards I've purchased in the past gain value. Currently my collection sits at about $7k. That said, 90% of the cards I own are in commander decks that I regularly play with. I don't have binders of reserve list cards gathering dust in my closet. I don't like the idea of having valuable cards I'm not using. Kind of like a fancy car that just sits in your garage.

Recently, I've enjoyed buying cards at lower points so that I can grow my collection without spending too much. I ONLY buy singles and feel that sealed product is a big fat waste of money unless maybe you are playing a sealed tournament. I like knowing what I am spending my money on. I'm not a gambler.

I do tend to purchase a lot of bling cards. Full arts, foils, extended arts, showcase, secret lairs, etc... If I'm going to spend money on a card, I like having the potential for that card to accrue value over time, and there is a certain aesthetic satisfaction to playing with these.

I like when people can pick up cheap copies of cards that are powerful but more expensive collector versions also exist. Expeditions and lottery cards I think are a good thing for the game. I think if wizards does things right, they can please both the players and the collectors.

I really think reusing the old artwork is bad for the collectors and a big reason why they hate reprints so much, especially for special promos of cards. A good example of this that recently happened to me is Sterling Grove . I bough the Seb McKinnon judge promo for around $20 because I am a fan of the artist. I liked the artwork and wanted a special copy. A few months later they reprinted sterling grove with the judge promo artwork and the actual judge promo price plummeted. Feels bad and I don't think that was necessary. We could have a had a reprint without destroying the collectors edition value.

Maxxx17 wrote: ↑

2 years ago

I prefer online games on the PC rather than card games. After all, there are a lot more people online with whom you can play ta and more opportunities. For example, as in the game overwatch. I'm there thanks to boosting so much risen. That no one beats me.

Why are you here?

Also I barely understand what you're talking about.

DirkGently wrote: ↑

2 years ago

Maxxx17 wrote: ↑

2 years ago

I prefer online games on the PC rather than card games. After all, there are a lot more people online with whom you can play ta and more opportunities. For example, as in the game overwatch. I'm there thanks to boosting so much risen. That no one beats me.

Why are you here?

Also I barely understand what you're talking about.

It's a spam account, I reported a post in which they advocated illegally downloading games.

As to the actual topic, the other day I was browsing my Cardkingdom wish list and saw a world championship version of a card ( Replenish )and recalled one of the guys in my group was looking for a copy of it so I let them know it was in stock. Our group is fine with the world championship cards, I run a Flooded Strand that i originally got as a second copy, turned out i didn't even have one before i got the WC version lol.

RowanKeltizar wrote: ↑

2 years ago

I really think reusing the old artwork is bad for the collectors and a big reason why they hate reprints so much, especially for special promos of cards. A good example of this that recently happened to me is Sterling Grove . I bough the Seb McKinnon judge promo for around $20 because I am a fan of the artist. I liked the artwork and wanted a special copy. A few months later they reprinted sterling grove with the judge promo artwork and the actual judge promo price plummeted. Feels bad and I don't think that was necessary. We could have a had a reprint without destroying the collectors edition value.

I have been bitten by this several times. Most recently was the Judge Foil Mana Drain that I paid up for. At the time it was the only mana drain foil available, and not very much more than a Legends copy. Wouldn't you know it, that same year or so Mana Drain was reprinted in a masters set... foil copies of that version were 1/2 the cost I paid. Luckily the art was different and my copy still holds some value. If I get the chance I'll trade the Judge foil for a masters foil + more since the art is not drawing me any particular direction.

Keeping the original art for old cards that you want to reprint goes a long way in easing the pain of a reprint price drop. But really, expensive cards are hard to print into the ground. Tarmagoyf did it, but they have been printing that thing in every supplemental set for years.

I don't use proxies in my commander decks, but I built a commander cube with duals and such. Just this week I started printing proxies for the reserved list cards in the cube because those cards are handled by people other than myself and the ridiculous price these are fetching makes the risk too high. Also this mindset allows me to add other cards into the cube that I only have one copy of and were left out before.

I've never played with a playgroup that used a lot of proxies, but as long as they are not proxying full cEDH decks, or every fast mana for every deck, I don't think I'd raise too much of a stink about it. Gaea's Cradle in a token deck is peak performance, and it's not fair that I get to enjoy that because I've been playing for years while younger players just get to watch and wish.

In a way, I feel that I've contributed enough to my own gaming that I expect my opponents to at least show some effort of their own. Proxying super expensive cards is understandable, but I'd not appreciate a deck filled with 10 or 20+ proxies, especially if they're all mana rocks that'd speed their T1~3 combo. It's one matter about wanting power, and another when you aren't even willing to pay a portion of the cost.