MTGNexus

Venedrex wrote: ↑

2 years ago

we can convert them to building Phelddagrif group hug as time goes on.

No.

DirkGently wrote: ↑

2 years ago

Venedrex wrote: ↑

2 years ago

we can convert them to building Phelddagrif group hug as time goes on.

No.

Lol, my apologies. Phelddagrif deal making while giving out favors, play the table like a fiddle, and eventually win after subtly acquiring advantages by tactically manipulating the flow of battle and flying under the radar? Am I getting warmer?

New Update:

Golos, Tireless Pilgrim banned.

Worldfire unbanned.

Source: https://mtgcommander.net/index.php/2021 ... ly-update/

Grand! I'm glad to hear that they're choking the torrent of 5C goodstuff, and in that context, banning Golos is even better. Worldfire requires setup comparable to something like Insurrection to win, and also seems like the sort of single, distinct card that can be rule-0'd fairly easily.

Wow. I honestly didn't think they'd have the guts to do it. I can't stand Golos, but banning one of the most popular commanders ever printed?* That's ballsy.

*I'm not over selling Golos's popularity, am I? It is/was really that popular, right?

RxPhantom wrote: ↑

2 years ago

Wow. I honestly didn't think they'd have the guts to do it. I can't stand Golos, but banning one of the most popular commanders ever printed?* That's ballsy.

*I'm not over selling Golos's popularity, am I? It is/was really that popular, right?

Nope. You are not. According to EDHREC, Golos, Tireless Pilgrim is the number one most popular commander in the past two years.

I am interested to see their comments behind it (but I can't access the site due to it being down right now), but for now, all I will say is so long, farewell.

I don't understand why they would unban Worldfire but leave Sway of the Stars banned.

Guardman wrote: ↑

2 years ago

Nope. You are not. According to EDHREC, Golos, Tireless Pilgrim is the number one most popular commander in the past two years.

I am interested to see their comments behind it (but I can't access the site due to it being down right now), but for now, all I will say is so long, farewell.

They basically said he was too centralizing to deckbuilding and play, given that he offered both ramp and payoff, and could cheese the tax. He was too centralizing to play given that activating his ability was generally the best thing you could be doing whenever you can. They admitted that Kenrith can be just as centralizing to deckbuilding, but he doesn't provide ramp by himself and is less centralizing in play, so they don't think they will have to ban him, but are keeping an eye out.
Also, that their liason to R&D is taking a pretty hard stance against 5C goodstuff going forwards to prevent the next Golos.

tstorm823 wrote: ↑

2 years ago

I don't understand why they would unban Worldfire but leave Sway of the Stars banned.

I thought Sway was closer to Shahrazad, in that it effectively restarts the game, whereas Worldfire was overwhelmingly used to just win.

So Sheldon posted an article on Starcity with more in-depth analysis: https://articles.starcitygames.com/sele ... 1582396687

I suspect Sway of the Stars could come off the banlist as well, but I see no problem with them releasing Worldfire first and watching what happens.

Sharpened wrote: ↑

2 years ago

So Sheldon posted an article on Starcity with more in-depth analysis: https://articles.starcitygames.com/sele ... 1582396687

I suspect Sway of the Stars could come off the banlist as well, but I see no problem with them releasing Worldfire first and watching what happens.

Agreed. I also think the format has moved away, culturally, from reset/tie cards for the lulz, making it less of a concern.

Well, I had already stopped playing for a few months, but now any desire I may have had to start playing again is pretty much dead, so that's cool. Thanks for saving my wallet, RC.

The explanation of the Golos ban is basically the same drum I've been beating for a long while now. Love to see it

I was thinking that it's been a hell of a long time since the banlist has been updated. I suspect they've been having a period of respectable inactivity due to Sheldon's passing. It's time though. The One Ring needs to gtfo.

RxPhantom wrote: ↑

5 months ago

I was thinking that it's been a hell of a long time since the banlist has been updated. I suspect they've been having a period of respectable inactivity due to Sheldon's passing. It's time though. The One Ring needs to gtfo.

Let's do a prisoner exchange for Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary.

kirkusjones wrote: ↑

5 months ago

Let's do a prisoner exchange for Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary.

Oh god no. We dont need more fast mana BS floating around. I think TOR earned a spot, but not at this price

I was curious what my feelings about the banlist are, so I decided to go through and evaluate every card on the banlist and rank them to determine which cards I consider the most and least banworthy.

To me, banworthiness consists of two attributes: 'how much impact does this card have on the game' and 'how many decks would want to play the card'. As a general rule, I think there is a high cost to unbanning a card - not changing the banlist is greatly preferable to unbanning a card and then needing to ban it again later. This means that there is a pretty high threshold for me to advocate any unbans.

Still, even if I don't necessarily think anything should currently be unbanned, it's still an interesting exercise to figure out what is most likely to come off. Some of these cards are clearly more banworthy than others, which means something has to be the least banworthy. If the RC came to me tomorrow and wanted to know what I would remove to free up space for (insert broken card here), I'd certainly like to have a shortlist to respond with.
Based on my own evaluations, I think Braids, Cabal Minion, Erayo, Soratami Ascendant // Erayo's Essence, Iona, Shield of Emeria, and Panoptic Mirror could potentially come off the banlist. I think they're mostly on the list due to inertia (although Iona was banned more recently) - I don't expect them to see much play if unbanned, and they're not as impressive as they used to be due to power creep. I don't necessarily want to play against an opposing Erayo / Braids deck, but that's also true of stuff like Tergrid, God of Fright // Tergrid's Lantern and The Beamtown Bullies.

Biorhythm, Flash, Sway of the Stars, Gifts Ungiven, Recurring Nightmare, and Yawgmoth's Bargain are on my 'might be unbanned someday' list. Biorhythm, Flash, and Sway I think would only see niche play (ignoring cEDH). Gifts, Nightmare, and Bargain would likely see a lot of play, so I would be very cautious when unbanning them... but there are also comparable cards out there that are still legal, so I could see them being unbanned eventually. 'Currently over the line, but could be okay if the line moves'.

The other cards on the banlist I would generally advocate against unbanning. They're generally too broken, go in too many decks, or both.

Looking at the list, I would move Emrakul, the Aeons Torn down to "might be unbanned someday", the other Eldrazi titans aren't really ruining the format, and I think Emrakul's banning happened in part because it was a prerelease promo, everyone got one, and it could go into any deck. I don't think it would be terribly omnipresent if they let that off the leash.

Then I would move Yawgmoth's Bargain directly up to "very banned". There aren't really comparable cards other than Griselbrand, which other than the ability to be a commander is way worse and also banned. All the other things that trade life for cards either do so all at once, do so with restricted timing, or require another resource be spent, and all 3 of those things mean that the turn gets to pass at some point. The average use case for Yawgmoth's Bargain is that nobody else ever gets another turn, but the game still takes 10-15 minutes to finish. It seriously belongs on the ban list.

tstorm823 wrote: ↑

3 months ago

Looking at the list, I would move Emrakul, the Aeons Torn down to "might be unbanned someday", the other Eldrazi titans aren't really ruining the format, and I think Emrakul's banning happened in part because it was a prerelease promo, everyone got one, and it could go into any deck. I don't think it would be terribly omnipresent if they let that off the leash.

I ran the numbers on Emrakul a while ago, specifically in the context of cheating her out early with Polymorph or another effect. Protection from colored spells is a pretty significant upgrade over indestructible on Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre or Blightsteel Colossus. The presence of Swords to Plowshares and other exile-based spot removal means that it's hard to win off the back of a single cheated threat, but I do think it's possible to win off Emrakul alone. Board wipes do exist, but they're played at a lower rate than spot removal and they're more expensive - any given deck may have ~5 spot removal spells, but only 2-3 board wipes (and if they're Farewell or another expensive option, then that makes things even more awkward).

It's possible that I'm overestimating how much play Emrakul would see though. I also missed the historical context of Emrakul being a prerelease promo - that's a good callout for why she may have been overplayed at the time. On the flip side, I also think the other Eldrazi titans are currently underplayed due to their pricetags.

Then I would move Yawgmoth's Bargain directly up to "very banned". There aren't really comparable cards other than Griselbrand, which other than the ability to be a commander is way worse and also banned. All the other things that trade life for cards either do so all at once, do so with restricted timing, or require another resource be spent, and all 3 of those things mean that the turn gets to pass at some point. The average use case for Yawgmoth's Bargain is that nobody else ever gets another turn, but the game still takes 10-15 minutes to finish. It seriously belongs on the ban list.

Yawgmoth's Bargain I have lower on my list because Necropotence and Bolas's Citadel are legal. Bargain is an upgrade over them, but I'm not convinced there are enough free / cheap spells in the format to win off it the turn it is played... and if someone is playing all those things, then their opponents may gang up and lower their life total enough to make Bargain irrelevant. I suppose Aetherflux Reservoir and Sheoldred, the Apocalypse make comboing off with it somewhat trivial though, so it could be higher on my list.

I'd be unhappy with Braids, Cabal Minion unban. There is a guy at my playgroup that plays her and the group allows and its often miserable. Not even power wise, but someone will be a slow start and will never be able to get back after its a little unfun

duducrash wrote: ↑

3 months ago

I'd be unhappy with Braids, Cabal Minion unban. There is a guy at my playgroup that plays her and the group allows and its often miserable. Not even power wise, but someone will be a slow start and will never be able to get back after its a little unfun

I would have no problem playing against it but I think the concern is more for the casual players. Its not that uncommon to expect a casual player to do very little in the first few turns of their game and I could see it being a problem there. Its definitely one of those cards that the old banned as a commander seemed to cover well as it wasn't a big problem as a card in the 99. I would love to see it come back but I also kind of get why its gone.

I have a harder time with the banning of Erayo, Soratami Ascendant // Erayo's Essence personally because its a ban that I can only read along the lines of "its not cool when a tuned deck beats up casual decks with this". It just doesn't really make sense to me because its such a tuned deck concept of a commander that obviously its not cool to do to casual players but like, look at combos, stax, LD, I just don't see why we bother to identify this card as unacceptable as you don't accidentally stumble into a well tuned Erayo deck as a casual player. Its a skillful hard to build commander that casuals aren't going to accidentally assemble in a way that its a problem.