DirkGently wrote: ↑1 year ago
Okay, then you create a scenario where running an etbt dual is better than running a better untyped dual (i.e. a BBD). Let's see how absurdly magical Christmasland this gets. And ofc keep in mind that literally every other dual-typed land is superior and would be run first.
Okay. Off the top of my head, the simplest path is just fetching these first to get them out of the path of drawing them, in those early turns where you conventionally might not have a play each turn to perfectly curve out (we've all seen that game). A typed dual, even a EBT typed dual, is still superior to an untyped dual a la a checkland. Consider, then, if it weren't superior then why would
uw players in modern play
Spara's Headquarters when they could play
Glacial Fortress? By your previously pushed logic, these players should be playing the checkland first no? Because it's just two colour,
uw isn't splashing optimally speaking. In this case it's just an EBT dual you can fetch. What this tells me is you're under-valuing the ability to fix your colours solely within the manabase slots, leaving your business slots to be, well, business. Surely every single
uw player isn't wrong, just so Dirk can be right, correct? Why, that'd just be the most arrogant conceited point of view to maintain...surely that can't be right.
Second example, and maybe it's just me because outside of Kaalia I tend to curve my decks out at 5mv, and so maybe I can afford to fix my colours this way. I don't need to try and hit sixes and sevens on curve because I don't run sixes and sevens conventionally speaking. Perhaps this is where the clash of opinions comes from? Are you still trying to slam
Avenger of Zendikars and
Recurring Insights? Maybe it's the play patterns, because I don't fetch my cyclables first as I can try to leverage the cycling to maybe turn it into a fresh card latre - something you've seemed to downplay, presumably because you're trying scrambling to hit every land drop while I don't need to. Which, side note, also makes you sawft to that
Ruination you scream is unfair...and that wouldn't happen if you weren't pressing yourself to hit your land drops. It's okay to sandbag lands in hand, really, because MLD is a fair and reasonable strategy one should generally and reasonably expect to face, rather than crying about "resetting the game" and playing for another two hours. Which, yeah there's some measure of irresponsibility in how some people use it, but that's not the fault of the strategy - that's a discussion for outside the game with those players.
Obviously now, you can't leverage these kinds of duals in 4c+ because you don't have near enough slots and have many more colour combinations to hit. So, 2c-3c is the sweet spot to be able to push these the most.
In summary, I think we're finding you're downplaying just how important being able to fetch-dual your colours onto the board in a myriad of ways, whether that be a gross under-estimation of how many fetches you expect to see or activate, the relative ineffectiveness of hoping to fix colours with a random untyped dual off the top (you can't fetch a checkland, leaving you to hope and pray to draw it when you need it), and a mana curve that forces you to to be unable to afford tapped, searchable fixing because you're crunched to hit all the benchmarks in your curve. Not to mention an unwillingness to consider cycling duals as late priority hits because the cycling can and is a relevant line of text.
A last note, I think the other disconnect here is you're looking for a definitive line of play where you always play these into that into whatever, but you can't look at it that way. Maybe you have a t1 play - an
Esper Sentinel or
Arcum's Astrolabe and as such you need to fetch differently. Every game is different, and you have to evaluate and often make changes to the plan on the fly to leverage your deck the most efficiently. Going on autopilot mode is a recipe to plateau as a player.