MTGNexus

Example for this discussion: I like that Blightning and Skull Rend both exist and that the latter isn't just an overloaded version of the former.

Monday, October 28th, 2019; Dig Through Time



So, does this live up to it's prior reputation in this format. UU for "take the best two from the top seven" sounds pretty damn incredible to me.

Instant-speed delve is always fun for giving people trying to use cards in your graveyard the finger. Not saying I'd sandbag this the whole game if I'm playing against a reanimator deck, but I'd probably wait a couple more rounds than usual before cashing it in just in case, especially if I have one of those headache creatures like consecrated sphinx sitting in there, killed by removal during the next player's upkeep step like God intended.

3drinks wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Monday, October 28th, 2019; Dig Through Time

On the one hand, I love this card. It's really good. Mega-Impulse is a good card.

On the other, I hate how cards like these drive the prices of Fetchlands up. I play with Fetches, but I am annoyed at their ubiquity because of cards like this, Grim Lavamancer, etc. My mono-blue EDH decks playing 4 ONS/ZEN fetches is some kind of sadness.

I wish Magic was not such an expensive game to play.

3drinks wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Ultimatum is pretty reasonably costed, and correctly so, based on the effect generated. You realize if this said each, it'd have to cost UUUUBBBBBRRRR at the very least, right, which would certainly push it out of playability range. Then it'd be the subject of every Mizzix's Mastery player ever (although perhaps it should be). Don't be greedy - you don't need every single card played to read "every opponent". That's such a crutch in deckbuilding, and one that is easily avoided. If you look for all the everything cards, you miss the scalpels that would otherwise allow you to slam these kinds of effects as designed. I get that some people would like to play two drop 5/5s with pure upside and that grant free reach arounds on ETB, but for the sake of rudimentary game balance, there's just certain effects you can't print. Overtly ridiculous creatures and 24-for-1s being some such cards.

I hope that helps you to better understand why singular opponent effects are indeed well designed for the format.

Take it down a notch there squirrelly Dan. You're coming in really hot for no reason I can tell.

I don't like scalpels that make one dude discard their hand. Political suicide. Despite cruel ultimatum seeing play in 10% of grixis decks (WTF?) I have never seen it cast. Because it's not a scalpel it's a hammer you take to one person.

I totally get duke's point that this was designed for pre-multiplayer, and I get the need for scalpels from a removal perspective, but I don't like "target player loses the game" effects, personally, and I don't know anyone who does.

Dig is a sweet card, it doesn't belong in every deck but its really good. It tends to get better the better tuned your deck is as things like fetchlands can contribute to it getting cheaper to cast. I don't play a ton of blue decks but I would say its a really solid card well worth consideration in any deck that can move cards quickly.

ISBPathfinder wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Dig is a sweet card, it doesn't belong in every deck but its really good. It tends to get better the better tuned your deck is as things like fetchlands can contribute to it getting cheaper to cast. I don't play a ton of blue decks but I would say its a really solid card well worth consideration in any deck that can move cards quickly.

Seconded. Not for every deck, but if you build in things that you can delve away (fetches, cheap spells, w/e), Dig is a slam dunk. On a similar note, Drawn from Dreams|M20.

RE: Cruel Ultimatum - Grixis decks tend to be controlly, so dropping CU on someone should set you up for an almost guaranteed win against them. Timing (politically and strategically) always matters for big plays, regardless of having a single target or multiple.

Oh yes, Dig Through Time has a high rate of getting you Two of Exactly What You Want even with 99-card decks.

Sanity_Eclipse wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Not for every deck, but if you build in things that you can delve away (fetches, cheap spells, w/e), Dig is a slam dunk. On a similar note, Drawn from Dreams|M20.

That sorcery speed though. I kept re-reading drawn looking for the difference between Dig and it and was going "waitaminute what's the catch...?" Then In saw it. Paying four on my turn for that is...not really where I want to be, honestly.

The question becomes how much recursion you have, too. Most people will happily recur fetches or things like Strip Mine. I'm one of those people who doesn't like exiling my own cards on the principle of "This may conceivably have value.

I will say that reanimator decks, the obvious reason to run Delve, can run their own fatties. They kind of need to: "Depending on your opponent" is the last place you want to be.

By the way, *adds Drawn from Dreams to "suggestive Magic art" folder* I would say the biggest problem with Drawn from Dreams is four mana to draw two. Granted, it's digging, not just drawing (which means draw doublers don't matter, and nor do things like Underworld Dreams), but still, the four mana can be a problem.

Dig is great. One huge thing I haven't seen discussed much is that it's still really good when you don't do the full delve. Even delving a few cards makes it worthwhile since you don't need to fire it off until your last opponents end step, so you can keep that Mana open for other things and just pour all your remaining Mana into it before delving the rest. Casting this end of turn for 4 or 5 still feels pretty good when you only have to delve a few cards you wouldn't otherwise be able to recur. Being able to cast it for UU when you need the Mana and can afford to delve 6 is just insane. Drawn from Dreams is probably the appropriate cost for this effect, but as an instant.

Sinis wrote: ↑

4 years ago

I am annoyed at their ubiquity because of cards like this, Grim Lavamancer, etc.

Grim lavamancer? In 2019??

Dig is maybe my favourite single-shot draw spell. Selection at instant speed makes it something of a universal answer.

Dig Through Time (and Treasure Cruise) is a powerful card advantage tool. There are a lot of easy ways to fill a graveyard - fetchlands, Thought Scour, Mesmeric Orb, etc. I think the main downside is that there is tension with other graveyard-based effects - most decks that are milling themselves are planning to set up recursion engines or have some other way to benefit from a large graveyard, so they don't want to exile large portions of it. I wouldn't ever consider this for my Kess deck, for example. Still, if you're not going to ever recur a card, delving it away is pretty free.

As for Dig itself... instant spell does let you occasionally mess with your opponents' reanimation effects. It also, well, digs really deep - good option if you're looking for something specific.

I will say though that a fair price for it is closer to 4 or 5 mana - see Drawn from Dreams. If you don't have cards to delve away, it gets a lot worse, and being able to fill your graveyard quickly does require some amount of deckbuilding commitment. Much easier if you have the budget for fetchlands, but unlike in other formats, those aren't going to be a significant percentage of your mana base. (I'm actually curious to see how Dig and Cruise do in Pioneer, if only to see how strong they are in a format without fetchlands)

Tuesday, October 29th, 2019; Zuran Orb and I suppose in a similar-ish vein, Claws of Gix.

Haven't had the good opportunity to use Zuran Orb in a deck yet but a lands-focused deck is on my list, so we'll see. I know it goes in a lot of Titania and Gitrog decks.

Claws of Gix has been in and out of Chainer over the years, though, and the lifegain did save me a time or two - even when I just needed 2-3 life to get one more Chainer activation without killing myself. It's one of two outlets I've occasionally run for non-creature sacrifice, such as getting Necropotence off my back if it becomes a liability.

3drinks wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Tuesday, October 29th, 2019; Zuran Orb and I suppose in a similar-ish vein, Claws of Gix.

My fondest memory of Zuran Orb is floating 1W, sacrificing all my lands, and then playing Balance. 1994-5 was a wild time, y'all.

Good ol' Zorb. If you're running with Titania as a general, Zorb is just one of the cards you run, period. Geddon coming down? Sac off everything, gain life, gain an army. A more complete wipe just got played? Still gain the life through sac-cing, maybe you have some kind of death trigger card for the Elementals and can get value that way. Or just EOT (opponent's), sac a few lands for some dudes that can swing right away. Gets you life to survive attacks and to fuel Sylvan Library. *hand kiss* Perfection.

Zuran Orb is a bit niche, but if you want your lands to die, it's the best option available. Titania, Protector of Argoth, The Gitrog Monster, and Herald of Leshrac all work well with it. I doubt any land sac outlet could ever be more efficient than it, given its free cost. I wouldn't cash in a land for two life in most decks, but it can be good if you really care about the lifegain (ex: Necropotence, Karlov of the Ghost Council) - it's a really efficient way to gain life too.

If your mana base can handle Drogskol Reaver. But for the most part, lifegain's not my jam with this.

Now, sacrificing things is my jam. This (with Crucible of Worlds) can make spell lands reusable as a minor thing. As a major thing, it is useful with Titania, Protector of Argoth and The Gitrog Monster.

The orb and claws are pretty different. The orb being entirely free makes it more powerful in decks that want to sac lands and gives it combo potential. The claws costing 1 per activation are pretty weak there by comparison. But the claws are unique in being an all purpose repeatable sac outlet that supports numerous strategies and is very useful for churning out incremental value. It's especially useful in decks where you have multiple types you want to sac, and it's ability to sac enchantments is rare but very useful. They will sometimes go in the same deck, I could imagine Gitrog and Titania wanting to sac lands incrementally and thus getting similar use from both cards, but there's lots of decks that would run claws but not orb, and decks that want to make full use of orb aren't going to get what they need from claws due to the Mana requirement.

There isn't a better option for a permanent that sacrifices your lands. Sylvan Safekeeper is close, though. In some ways better for providing a more relevant effect than lifegain, but the effect for either of them is not the end goal in ideal situations.

10/10 does what it says on the tin.

There used to be a time in which I would force Claws, High Market, and other relevant sacrifice effect cards in almost all of my commander-centric decks because it was one of the only ways to get around getting your commander shuffled into your library or stolen.

Wednesday, October 30th, 2019; Brass's Bounty



It's no dockside extortionist buuuuuuuttttttt, how much worse off is this compared to a similar effect in Mana Geyser, or even Geosurge? At what rate do you need to be casting this for does it become mana positive, in practicality terms (yes, if you have 40 lands out, obv this is a super ritual. That's not what we're asking here.)

It's interesting how many places this can live in, with various functions. Three commanders that come to mind immediately are Wort, Brudiclad and Korvold. Solid hijinks factor for something with such a simple surface-level design.

RIX was a great set.

3drinks wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Wednesday, October 30th, 2019; Brass's Bounty

It's no dockside extortionist buuuuuuuttttttt, how much worse off is this compared to a similar effect in Mana Geyser, or even Geosurge? At what rate do you need to be casting this for does it become mana positive, in practicality terms (yes, if you have 40 lands out, obv this is a super ritual. That's not what we're asking here.)

When I was playing it, a friend of mine called it a "7-mana do-nothing" and I replied "If I have 7 lands, it's at least a zero-mana do-nothing." I killed him with Marionette Master a turn later. I have cast it for 5 treasures (with artifact mana), and it's been worth it.

It's not usually about the mana returns; I think it's probably a very poor ritual. For me, it's about the pile of artifact tokens. Rumpy covered the generals that love it, but, there's more:

Revel in Riches is low-hanging fruit, but it's still fruit.
Quicksmith Genius lets you loot. A lot.
Era of Innovation, Gonti's Aether Heart can give you approximately a billion energy if that's your thing.
Blinkmoth Urn for a ton of mana.
Vault of Catlacan for a ton of mana.
Tezzeret, Master of the Bridge doesn't mind making a bunch of cards super cheap (Or, you know +2 to drain everyone for a non-trivial amount).
Urza, Lord High Artificer makes it a sort of Boundless Realms
Inspiring Statuary makes them colourless lands. Ish.
Whirler Rogue can make your team unblockable.

I'm sure there are more, but you get the gist. There's a lot you can do with buckets of artifacts.