MTGNexus

I saw this as a win condition, not a hate card

Titania's Song is an interesting hate card. It turns off noncreature artifacts, but also turns them into creatures and opens them up to more flavors of mass removal. Seems like a decent inclusion in a deck with very few artifacts.... or alternatively, a deck with some large artifacts that it wants to beat down with.

I would say the main reason to skip it is that green has a lot of other mass artifact removal spells available as competition - Creeping Corrosion, Bane of Progress, Wave of Vitriol.... A lot of them also hit enchantments, so you may prefer Titania's Song in an enchantment-based deck. It also depends somewhat on how much enchantment removal you expect from your opponents - in a meta with lots of enchantment removal, I would prefer actual artifact removal, instead of something more temporary.

Me: *plays Gilded Lotus*
A friend: *drops this*
Me: *looks at Lotus, deliberately starts cracking voice* Wow, this is...completely worthless.

You'd probably run Null Rod today. And how does this work with Mycosynth Lattice? Is it another Humility situation?

7/10 It does nothing and something else.

I once had a Boompile disarmed and then punched out while this was out..

Some dude fought a walking pile of explosives....

hyalopterouslemur wrote: ↑

4 years ago

You'd probably run Null Rod today. And how does this work with Mycosynth Lattice? Is it another Humility situation?

Well, for starters it would kill all the lands in this situation as they'd be 0/0 artifacts. Then the ones of at least cmc 1+, become creatures, and none of these creatures this way have abilities. They're not 1/1s though, so at least it's not as bad as Humility.

Saturday, October 26th, 2019; AEther Vial

Early on I thought it was just a Legacy card and that it has no place in this format...but soon I learned that it is kill on sight (or at least before it gets too big). It's just gotten better with all the ETB critters.

I have played a lot of aether vials in edh and it's really hard to get right. But when it's good it's reaaaaally good. Usually you want it in a deck that is heavily clustered at 2 3 or 4 cmc, preferably 2 or 3. Luckily, 3 especially is where most of the best creatures in EDH live and also synergizes with mana dorks.

I'm far less likely to play it these days but I still think about it in mana dork decks.

I put it in Marchesa, the Black Rose because one of the goals of the deck is to curve out so that turn 4 Marchesa gets multiple dethrone triggers. Like T1 Benthic Biomancer, T2 Oona's Blackguard, T3 Fulminator Mage, Turn 4 Marchesa lets me loot, force 3 opponent discards and destroy a land on turn 4.

Over the years, I have gotten the curve in the deck pretty low, and that's when I realized that Aether Vial was super powerful on turn 1 in the deck.
The new card I am most interested in for the deck is Scroll of Fate which essentially does the same thing, since manifested cards can get counters, get sacrificed, then return to the battlefield right side up.

3drinks wrote: ↑

4 years ago

hyalopterouslemur wrote: ↑

4 years ago

You'd probably run Null Rod today. And how does this work with Mycosynth Lattice? Is it another Humility situation?

Well, for starters it would kill all the lands in this situation as they'd be 0/0 artifacts. Then the ones of at least cmc 1+, become creatures, and none of these creatures this way have abilities. They're not 1/1s though, so at least it's not as bad as Humility.

I was referring to the other thing Humility is known for.

Anyway, Aether vial. It's a fixed Elvish Piper and just as KOS.

In the right deck its insane value. I like it because it's a KOS very powerful play that isn't an auto include. Many decks cannot make effective use of it, but it's great at supporting low curve creature decks and giving them that extra push. It's more swingy, but less reliable, when you use it as a way to hear out bigger creatures, because you have to wait for it to tick up and decks that focus on larger creatures tend to have a wider range of cmcs. But here again it's a card that helps weaker archetypes. It's a key card in Kalemne 5cmc matters, an oddball deck I've played against that's a lot of fun.

Yeah it's not as silly as it gets in Modern/Legacy, but it's still a decent card that is always recommended for decks with a cluster of creatures at CMC 2 or 3 - those tend to be the best spots to hit relatively early and get a nice discount still. Still as good in Goblins as it is in eternal formats Goblins decks.

Aether Vial is a card that is powerful in theory, but I don't think I've ever actually seen it played in an EDH game. It's a bit slow to get going, and you need a high density of creatures with a specific cmc to take advantage of it, which can be difficult to build around. There may be some decks out there that specifically play a bunch of creatures at a specific CMC, but I can't think of any (other than 6-CMC tribal, but that's a bit extreme).

Still, best-case scenario, it's a 1 mana artifact that generates a significant mana boost if you're playing out creatures with it consistently. Could also be interesting if you have a commander you want to bounce repeatedly - maybe Wydwen, the Biting Gale, Selenia, Dark Angel, or Chulane, Teller of Tales.

Sunday, October 27th, 2019; Cruel Ultimatum



Ah, yes, the classic 8 for 1 with the 10 point swing. What a #vintage card.

Four person game
You cast this. I respond with Radiate targeting CU.
What happens?

Serenade wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Four person game
You cast this. I respond with Radiate targeting CU.
What happens?

You're gonna copy it for each target, in this case two more because it says opponent and not player. Then you proceed to rip some insane 24 for 1 CA value. The original caster washes. Two opponents sad face. You probably become the arch enemy, but with that much resource advantage you can probably take it.

I really hate it when wizards ruins cards with the incorrect balance of 'target opponent' vs. 'target player' vs 'each opponent.' They have done it constantly over the years. Cards like fleshbag marauder vs. gatekeeper of malakir. torment of hailfire is a great example of a card that is borderline OP as 'each opponent.'

I wish I could think of more examples right now but this card is butt ass useless in EDH because of it. At 7 mana it'd be possibly too strong if it said 'each opponent' but I am not sure of that - it certainly could have been redesigned slightly (say, 2 cards instead of 3).

For the most part I am in favor of the default card templating for these effects being 'any number of target opponents' or 'all players' so as not to evade hexproof without being symmetrical. I would really like it if they by automatically thought about how cards would affect 4-pods when designing them at least a little.

Really good card. You'll need a lot of mana fixing, though, since it requires seven mana in three colors and not a generic mana to be seen.

Do you guys like Dark Intimations?

My Kess, Dissident Mage deck has the official goal of resolving as many Cruel Ultimatums (and other big villainous spells) as possible, so one could say that I'm a fan of the card. seven mana 8-for-1, plus a 10-point life swing. It's not necessarily going to win the game by itself, but it's still a very solid pile of value, and one of the better reasons to play a Grixis deck in the first place.

Mana cost is fairly challenging, and limits the decks it can go in - you can't play many lands that don't produce Grixis colors if you expect to cast it on time. Alternatively, play Signets or other ways to filter your mana. It also competes against other big spells, like Blatant Thievery / Expropriate / Torment of Hailfire.

In comparison, I'm not as bit of a fan of Dark Intimations - it's not bad, but it is a bit watered down. Does have the upside of hitting each opponent... but I also sort of appreciate the ability to mess with one person in particular with cards like CI, Worst Fears, and Sadistic Sacrament - if you throw it at whoever is in the strongest position, the rest of the table is significantly less likely to care about it.

That sounds like a fun Kess deck. So it's spellslinger battlecruiser?

3drinks wrote: ↑

4 years ago

Sunday, October 27th, 2019; Cruel Ultimatum

I've played this in a Nicol Bolas-themed Treasure deck. It was surprisingly effective despite the way it buries only a single player. But, boy, does it look bad when you're on the wrong end of it, unless you're so far ahead that none of those things matter.

lyonhaert wrote: ↑

4 years ago

That sounds like a fun Kess deck. So it's spellslinger battlecruiser?

Sort of. I'd probably describe it more as Grixis control with a spell-based endgame. I'll add a list here eventually, but current list is on tappedout. Basic gameplan is to cast big spells, copy them, then flash them back with Kess. Personal best is 3 Cruel Ultimatums in a single game, although the 6 Blatant Thieverys is probably more impressive.

Also, [mention]pokken[/mention] - while hitting only a single opponent does mean that Cruel Ultimatum - and other targeted spells like Rakdos's Return and Sadistic Sacrament - doesn't scale as well in multiplayer, I don't think that makes it a bad card. An 8-for-1 is pretty good no matter how many opponents you may have. I could also argue that being able to specifically target whichever opponent is furthest ahead (and letting other opponents not be affected) can make for a better game. Can also make a spell more likely to resolve by limiting the targets - anyone not targeted is unlikely to care.

There are definitely also some cards that would be broken/overpowered if they hit each opponent - Worst Fears is the first one that comes to mind, but Praetor's Grasp and Captive Audience would also be absurd. So I don't think it would be healthy for this category of spell to hit all opponents by default. Makes sense for a card that is multiplayer-focused, but I would say it's okay for some cards to be better or worse in multiplayer formats compared to 1v1. (Torment of Hailfire is probably a bit overtuned for multiplayer though)

pokken wrote: ↑

4 years ago

For the most part I am in favor of the default card templating for these effects being 'any number of target opponents' or 'all players' so as not to evade hexproof without being symmetrical. I would really like it if they by automatically thought about how cards would affect 4-pods when designing them at least a little.

Ultimatum is pretty reasonably costed, and correctly so, based on the effect generated. You realize if this said each, it'd have to cost UUUUBBBBBRRRR at the very least, right, which would certainly push it out of playability range. Then it'd be the subject of every Mizzix's Mastery player ever (although perhaps it should be). Don't be greedy - you don't need every single card played to read "every opponent". That's such a crutch in deckbuilding, and one that is easily avoided. If you look for all the everything cards, you miss the scalpels that would otherwise allow you to slam these kinds of effects as designed. I get that some people would like to play two drop 5/5s with pure upside and that grant free reach arounds on ETB, but for the sake of rudimentary game balance, there's just certain effects you can't print. Overtly ridiculous creatures and 24-for-1s being some such cards.

I hope that helps you to better understand why singular opponent effects are indeed well designed for the format.

Beyond balance, this card was printed before commander was popular. Multiplayer existed but had much smaller reach. There wasn't much call for each opponent.

I do generally agree that the overuse of "each opponent" makes both card design and gameplay stale.

It probably would only be a 18-for-one btw, unless they did "equal to cards discarded" on the draw. Which could actually make it much worse in 1v1.