Zada: Grinding up an Arcane Storm

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Toshi
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Post by Toshi » 3 years ago

Storm-Kiln Artist
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INSANITY!

Expanded Anatomy looks pretty good, too.

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Crazy Monkey
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Post by Crazy Monkey » 3 years ago

So based on the last few sets, it's clear to me that someone at WotC wants red storm to be viable. Goldspan Dragon, Birgi, God of Storytelling // Harnfel, Horn of Bounty, and now Storm-Kiln Artist are massive mana engines. Storm-Kiln staples Battle Hymn to nearly every spell, or Traitorous Greed if Goldspan Dragon is in play. That's absolutely ridiculous. I may finally be cutting Priest of Urabrask for this.

Expanded Anatomy giving vigilance is extremely powerful. That with Seize the Day is combats equal to your creature count, and the creatures are actually untapped to make use of those combat steps. Not my wincon in this deck, but it probably adds to my Feather deck.

I expect nearly anything with magecraft in monored to have much higher payoff in Zada than nearly any other deck.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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Post by Toshi » 3 years ago

Crazy Monkey wrote:
3 years ago
I expect nearly anything with magecraft in monored to have much higher payoff in Zada than nearly any other deck.
Enthusiastic Study is yet another prime example. Adding rummaging to Brute Strength makes for a truly flexible card.
Three mana isn't cheap, but enabling lethals via Trample, slightly buffing Toughness and potent hand filtering is just enough value.

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Post by Crazy Monkey » 3 years ago

Toshi wrote:
3 years ago
Crazy Monkey wrote:
3 years ago
I expect nearly anything with magecraft in monored to have much higher payoff in Zada than nearly any other deck.
Enthusiastic Study is yet another prime example. Adding rummaging to Brute Strength makes for a truly flexible card.
Three mana isn't cheap, but enabling lethals via Trample, slightly buffing Toughness and potent hand filtering is just enough value.
I've swapped Scroll Rack to Valakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge in my testing and liked that change, but I may go to Enthusiastic Study instead because the end effect is similar unless Zada isn't out. Either that or Brute Strength. Either way, I'm always glad to get more multi-role spells that enable the self damage while digging through the deck.

That's without including the possibility for learn to be a semi-tutor in the unlikely even that the RC changes the rules for, or the more plausible route of your playgroup being ok with it. I doubt I'd actually get anything other than Expanded Anatomy, but options like Introduction to Prophecy or Introduction to Annihilation might be corner case enough to be worth a sleeve.

Looting on a cantrip, with Harnfel, Horn of Bounty, and Seasoned Pyromancer might be approaching the threshold that Surly Badgersaur is yet another dumb mana/removal engine and Brallin, Skyshark Rider may become a reasonable wincon for some decks.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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Post by Crazy Monkey » 3 years ago

Sudden Breakthrough is yet another new ritual, practically Battle Hymn on a pump spell. It might not make the cut for me because it misses toughness.

Ingenious inspiration and Explosive Welcome are close, but too much damage, even if welcome worked.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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Post by Rumpy5897 » 3 years ago

Huh, I'd have thought Sudden Breakthrough would be good, as it's both pump and ramp. You could even theoretically use this on someone else's turn and jump them with some surprise first strike blockers, all while preserving the treasures for when you untap.
 
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Post by Crazy Monkey » 3 years ago

I might not have phrase my opinion well. You are correct that Sudden Breakthrough is multi-purpose between pumping and mana, and the EoT use to bank mana before going off is a good gameplan if you're in that situation.

Specifically, my concern with this is the cut, and the slightly more situational applications.

If I make a swap as a ritual, then I'm less able to use this as a ritual to resolve Zada in the first place. At similar mana cost we have Brightstone Ritual, Battle Hymn, Dockside Extortionist, or Desperate Ritual which can all ramp out Zada if needed. Without Zada, Sudden breakthrough is approximately the same ramp as mox amber/ lotus petal. I think that Breakthrough probably outperforms Priest of Urabrask, but I'm already reserving that slot for the Storm-Kiln Artist. Worst case is that I cast it to ramp 1 for Zada.

If I drop a pump spell, I'm reducing the number of toughness based enablers for Rile or Spawning Breath. Frankly, the nearest card to cut in this slot would be Path of Anger's Flame, but I'm really trying to keep the best of the arcane package for thematic reasons and the shear numerical pleasure.

The situation where I have mana up for breakthrough with Zada in play means that it was not worth going for it the previous turn, but I do have enough creatures to pay off. This would probably be when Zada landed early with 2-3 creatures and a single cantrip in hand. This is below my critical mass, but getting 3-4 more mana to add creatures and go off on my next turn would be a viable plan. That path may be enough to change my typical play patterns, because in that same place I currently commit the extra creatures first, then resolve zada and the cantrip on the following turn.

I should make sure I'm giving the breakthrough a fair consideration, so I'll probably give it some testing.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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Post by Rumpy5897 » 3 years ago

Those are all fair points, and make for a reminder that the fact you play a tangential commander does not necessarily make you fit to assess stuff. Stupid complicated game :P
 
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Post by Crazy Monkey » 3 years ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
3 years ago
Those are all fair points, and make for a reminder that the fact you play a tangential commander does not necessarily make you fit to assess stuff. Stupid complicated game :P
Honestly, if my deck didn't have the arcane package as a theme restriction then I would have the slot for it. It's definitely a good card for decks with Zada effects. A "slightly more situational" battle hymn is the type of card that I feel spoiled complaining about.

My playgroup has been doing a bit of pauper commander, and I may brainstorm on a pauper Zada list. In that deck, sudden breakthrough unquestionably makes the cut.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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Post by Ulka » 3 years ago

Hey all,

I figured Id finally get around to sharing my peasant version of this list with y'all as Im looking for feedback and have been riding a high of playing zada decks again. I wasn't going to post until I say that you CM, are looking at making a peasant version of the deck also.
Zada, Peasant Grinder
Approximate Total Cost:

Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Domain Zoo | Sultai Teachings | Jund Gardens

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Post by Crazy Monkey » 3 years ago

Ulka wrote:
3 years ago
Hey all,

I figured Id finally get around to sharing my peasant version of this list with y'all as Im looking for feedback and have been riding a high of playing zada decks again. I wasn't going to post until I say that you CM, are looking at making a peasant version of the deck also.
Zada, Peasant Grinder
Approximate Total Cost:

This helps me a lot, but I'm limited to fully commons in pauper. I'm having trouble finding enough token production with the loss of young pyromancer, hordling outburst, etc. What are the intention with the Mark of Mutiny/Portent of Betrayal effects? Have the theft effects been worthwhile, or are these purely for the scry or +1/+1 and untap?

On Strixhaven, Academic Dispute is a good, previously unmentioned learn source.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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Post by Ulka » 3 years ago

Crazy Monkey wrote:
3 years ago
This helps me a lot, but I'm limited to fully commons in pauper. I'm having trouble finding enough token production with the loss of young pyromancer, hordling outburst, etc. What are the intention with the Mark of Mutiny/Portent of Betrayal effects? Have the theft effects been worthwhile, or are these purely for the scry or +1/+1 and untap?
On Strixhaven, Academic Dispute is a good, previously unmentioned learn source.
With my List the theft effects are often just for snagging a Pelakka Wurm or the like but can sometimes if the setup is right with a Thermo-Alchemist + Paradise Mantle can lead to storm turns where the spell itself is free and I get a mass haste and untap on my team.

I must have misread your posts on pauper vs peasant oops. but yea Peasant edh is super fun and its been fun with the lower threat and combo thresholds as without those Zada thrives.

I do have to say I wasn't planning on testing the arcane aspect but then I realized that I don't lose a lot in peasant vs normal edh and figured id give it a shot and man I love it.

I think that Academic Dispute could be really strong but I'm still so excited for Sudden Breakthrough in peasant as this will be a very powerful combo card in the deck especially at this level of play.
Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Domain Zoo | Sultai Teachings | Jund Gardens

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Post by Crazy Monkey » 2 years ago

I was making the changes for Strixhaven, and noticed that my post list is was out of date. This is the changelog for the, apparently, past year and includes the cards I'm testing from Strixhaven. I feel reasonable confident that the learn mechanic will stick around.
The swaps as best I can remember them are:
  • Krenko, Mob Boss --> Birgi, God of Storytelling // Harnfel, Horn of Bounty: Birgi is absolutely incredible on both sides. I don't know why this was the swap, (likely another swap between these) but I have not needed the extra goblins.
  • Dwarven Mine --> Great Furnace: Due to the low land count, the mine entered tapped a bit too often and slowed down an otherwise winning turn too often. I kept the land nonbasic and was satisfied with the option to Reality Scramble thopters into another r source/
  • Phyrexian Altar --> Traitorous Greed: I've been testing this swap for so long that I need to make it official. The mana production from greed has been storm defining many times without lowing creature counts.
  • Devastating Summons --> Krark, the Thumbless: costing 1 more and not being copiable are the downsides of Krark. However, he effectively represents 2 creatures on a winning flip, or free buyback on a losing flip. This statistically increases the number of cantrips in the deck by 50% and has performed well in all testing. It can hurt to not resolve a Hordeling Outburst on first cast, so keep his trigger in mind when storming.
  • Scampering Scorcher --> Pia and Kiran Nalaar: reversing a swap from a year ago, I wanted to have more thopter sources and a bit more redundancy in my non-combat wins.
  • Empty the Warrens --> Chancellor of the Forge: a much higher mana cost, but able to be flipped from reality scamble. Even starting hand, it's still a free token. Worst case it's discarded to learn or Seasoned Pyromancer. I'll be honest, the deck might be better with empty the warrens, but the quest for increasingly (MORE) bigger numbers tempted me with underworld breach to recast twinflame radiated on geometrically increasing numbers of chancellor until I exile my graveyard.
  • Scroll Rack --> Valakut Awakening // Valakut Stoneforge: At first I wanted to drop a mountain for Stoneforge, but this was at the time that I was unimpressed by Dwarven Mine and didn't want another tapped land, even if that was not the main purpose. I tried it over rack, and between the cards going to the bottom and and +1 card it outperformed the more expensive card. I kept the swap.
  • Brute Strength --> Inordinate Rage: Adding another toughness and being a scrytrip was worth losing trample. This and the next swaps are recognition that my build is reducing it's ability to randomly kill people without storming, while increasing the odds of a successful storm.
  • Fatal Frenzy --> Spark of Creativity: This swap was originally going to be for Unleash Fury, but I realized that the main time that I cast frenzy was during a semi-successful storm turn. I added another cantrip in that slot and the probability of success was increased,
  • Distemper of the Blood --> Enthusiastic Study: 1 more on mana cost with the upside of learn, in this case discard-draw.
  • Boiling Blood --> Academic Dispute: To counterweight the increase in mana cost from enthusiastic study, swapping a 3 cost full cantrip for a 1 cost learn-cantrip. The worst-case here is if it's the only card in hand to start with, but if there is at least 1 other card in hand, this is approximately the same as a scry-trip. use the discard-draw to dig into a full cantrip, then weave it in and find more cards to discard.
  • Priest of Urabrask --> Storm-Kiln Artist: 1 more mana, but significantly more explosive. Copying priest always gives rrr, but copying the artist increases the value by which you multiply your creatures for each radiate to generate mana. Heat Shimmer pays for itself with only artist, Zada, and 1 creature; while adding "create 2 treasure" to everything that targets.
I haven't done a dedicated set review in...also a while. Note that the last year has been rather good for Zada, and a large number of the cards in the changelog show up here as well.

Zendikar Rising Set Review
Recommended Inclusions Not Recommended, but Possible Considerations
  • Magmatic Channeler: A cheaper version of Rummaging Goblin that digs 1 deeper is alright, but not really what I want here. I'd play it if the ability did not require a tap, even on a higher mana cost.
Not Considered
  • Ardent Electromancer: This could be another Priest of Urabrask, but getting a full party in mono-red would be difficult. Not likely to pay for itself without cost reduction.
  • Leyline Tyrant: Banking mana is alright if you don't storm out, and the dies trigger is similar to Mogg Fanatic, but without a sacrifice outlet it cost too much mana to be susceptible to bounce and exile.
Commander Legends Set Review
Recommended Inclusions
  • Krark, the Thumbless: Both sides of the flip are upsides. Winning the flip effectively counts as 2 creatures while losing the flip lets us recast the cantrip/pump/copy spell. Watch out for losing flips on token creating spells that don't target.
Not Recommended, but Possible Considerations
  • Wheel of Misfortune: While another wheel is good for red decks in general, we don't need it here.
  • Jeska's Will: This is both exile-draw and mana, but we can already generate more of both of those on lower cost cards.
Not Considered
  • Jeweled Lotus: This may be a surprising exclusion for a deck which can draw massive amounts of cards and is commander dependent. The important context for Zada is that casting her early without enough creatures to pay off on draw or mana sources is counterproductive in most cases. An early Zada with maybe 1 other creature and 1-2 mana is generally just bait for removal. For this reason, I don't think Jeweled lotus makes sense for Zada.
Kaldheim Set Review
Recommended Inclusions
  • Birgi, God of Storytelling // Harnfel, Horn of Bounty: Add mana for every spell, or discard your bad cards to exile-draw 2 more. Both sides of Birgi are great.
  • Goldspan Dragon: This will trigger when targeted by copies off of Zada, effectively making it the front side of Birgi, but for 2 mana. It can also stack with copies, because each copy will get targeted through the radiate. Finally, it can be cast for 5, attach, and create that first treasure to kick-start a storm post-combat. A very powerful card.
Not Recommended, but Possible Considerations Strixhaven Set Review
Recommended Inclusions
  • Storm-Kiln Artist: massive amounts of mana from just targeting Zada. Magecraft is nuts.
  • Academic Dispute: 1 mana cost learn. In any situation where your hand is not empty, this is probably better than a 3 cost cantrip.
  • Enthusiastic Study: A learn effect which is also a pump effect. Some testing will be necessary to determine with this is better or worse than something like Boiling Blood.
Not Recommended, but Possible Considerations EDIT: and now this is a Primer. Hopefully I can keep up to expectations there. Thanks to everyone who brainstorms here.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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Post by benjameenbear » 2 years ago

Indeed, congrats on Primer status! We've kept an eye on your thread for a while and it's absolutely deserving of it @Crazy Monkey. Well done, and my brother patterned his own Zada deck after your Primer (he took it apart because it required too much thinking, lol, but it was fun while he had it).

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Post by Crazy Monkey » 2 years ago

I'd say that being a deck that's fun to play is exactly what I want out of this deck. I'm glad to hear he enjoyed it.

I don't believe Modern Horizons gave much for this deck. There were a couple of near misses, such as Harmonic Prodigy checking the wrong creature types, or Strike it Rich not having a target.

Modern Horizon 2 Set Review
Recommended Inclusions Not Recommended, but Possible Considerations Not Recommended I've had hit or miss experience with the inclusion of lesson effects, Enthusiastic Study and Academic Dispute. Sometimes they are great, and the discard is not a problem. Sometimes my hand before resolution is only 1 card, and I have to either hope to hit an instant that I want (ritual/cantrip) or it's completely random for the end state. I stand by Study being a solid inclusion for cantrip/pump, but Dispute might swap out.

I'm also more frequently looking at the remaining standalone pump effects as a place to cut in general. They enable closing out close games, especially under a Rule of Law, but could those slots be better used on storm setup?
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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Post by RowanKeltizar » 2 years ago

Just wanted to say that I would absolutely love to play against this deck. Mad props sir.
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Post by Toshi » 2 years ago

Kick in the Door ... Zada, Dungeon Grinder!?

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Post by lyonhaert » 2 years ago

Toshi wrote:
2 years ago
Kick in the Door ... Zada, Dungeon Grinder!?
lol - More like Zada, Dungeon Speed-Runner.
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Post by Crazy Monkey » 2 years ago

Zada clears dungeons by hiring enough adventurers to send a party into every room. I'm not sure if dungeon of the mad mage or lost mine of the phandelver is better. I think the dungeon is better as a "cantrip", but the mine provides a wincon via life drain. Both are less efficient than a raw cantrip, but a fun synergy.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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Post by Crazy Monkey » 2 years ago

It's a bit late, but I should discuss the forgotten realm set before. Innistrad releases. There is not much to talk about here, but as noted above; Zada is one of the most effective non-infinite dungeon runners.
Forgotten Realms Set Review
Not Recommended, but possible inclusions:
  • Kick in the Door: This card is the only reason that this update is more than "we didn't get enough to note". Dungeon diving for each creature can effectively be token creation, ritual, and cantrip on a pump spell with dungeon of the mad mage and can dynamically trade tokens for cards. The reason that I don't think this makes the cut is that it really underperforms as the first cantrip at 6-11 creatures. It really needs critical mass for the added upsides to pay off. A pauper deck might play this, and the downside isn't enough to say it's as bad a cantrip as Balduvian Rage. It's a fun mechanic to include.
  • Den of the Bugbear: This is something of the opposite to Dwarven Mine. This deck plays fast enough that the odds of this entering tapped are low, and having a manland which makes tokens is reasonable. It reminded me of trying to make Siege of Towers work so that Heat Shimmer make more mana. It's not great, but the opportunity cost is relatively low.
All the other plausible inclusions are generally worse than other options, without reaching a threshold that would make them notable. if You Come to the Gnoll Camp had a more useful second option or You See a Pair of Goblins was a common and pauper legal, then I might have a "not considered" section here.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



x1372
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Post by x1372 » 2 years ago

Hello, I'm yet another somewhat new player looking to make my own variant of a Zada deck.

I've got my own (admittedly somewhat silly) rules for making my own decks.
1) no card over $10
2) no card over $5 unless it's a major factor in the deck
3) aiming for a total cost under $100

Anyway, I'm heading toward purchasing (most of) the cards for this deck, so I was hoping to get a bit of input to make sure I'm not missing anything super obvious that demands inclusion, or including something that is far less useful than I was assuming.

For now I'm choosing to omit the arcane package (I had way too hard of a time finding enough cards to cut) and the Thopter creators (leaning slightly heavier on the goblin synergy). I'm also fine with infinite combos (I almost included Grapeshot), but am trying to keep the average mana cost down. I'm also trying to include a bit of redundancy and protection ( Swiftfoot Boots Mirrorwing Dragon) as well as a bit of interaction to deal with problems (Chaos Warp Insult // Injury ) Zada might encounter.

I'm trying to make room to add in Goblin Chirurgeon, as well as Impact Tremors and Goblin Dark Dwellers, but am already having serious difficulty cutting things.

Thanks again for this primer and the discussion around it, they've been a great help in crafting this so far!

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Crazy Monkey
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Post by Crazy Monkey » 2 years ago

Welcome @x1372, glad the discussion here has been helpful.

If you're looking for cuts, I think the cards that stand out to me are Reiterate and Mana Geyser. I point out reiterate because it requires a large amount of mana to profit off of it, and copying spells will not trigger Zada. This means that you don't really want reiterate unless you have Inner Fire or Mana Geyser to go off with it. I suggest dropping mana geyser because, in my experience, once it's used once for a big play in a deck your group will remember that and play around it, reducing effectiveness across multiple games.

One other card swap that makes sense to me, but I don't include is to use Bonecrusher Giant // Stomp instead of Insult // Injury if your group has a reasonable amount of counterspells. By casting Stomp on Zada, the number of effects which force the damage through are much higher. If there aren't decks running damage prevention, then it still has a backup role as another creature to count. Flaring Pain has flashback to also push through stack control, but doesn't have a secondary use like the giant or Insult.

I hope you are able to get some games in and try out Sudden Breakthrough. I don't know if anyone else has tried that and if your feedback is that it is good in your experience then I will add it to the rituals section. As it stands, I think it's a bit underwhelming but it may perform well within the limits set for your deck.

One last note is that Anarchist or Revolutionist may be good inclusions for you if infinite combos fit in your plan. Those could compete with Dark-dwellers, but are obviously less mana efficient.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



x1372
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Post by x1372 » 2 years ago

Thanks for the info, I just put my order in for this deck's cards. (taking out Reiterate, Mana Geyser , and Unleash Fury for Goblin Chirurgeon , Impact Tremors , and Bonecrusher Giant // Stomp ) so it'll probably be a few weeks before I get to test it out. Sudden Breakthrough seems like it'll work fine as long as I can keep Zada in play, but I'll have to see how it works in practice.

Here's hoping innistrad's new sets are better for Zada than AFR was.

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Toshi
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Post by Toshi » 2 years ago

Bloodthirsty Adversary


Jesus almighty, who doesn't exist, this thing could be absolute bonkers - especially for copy-centric Zada, Hedron Grinder builds!

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Crazy Monkey
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Post by Crazy Monkey » 2 years ago

I think the important comparison is to Goblin Dark-Dwellers, and both have upside. The EtB-multikicker of Bloodthirsty Adversary is practically a small Mizzix's Mastery on each copy. The downside, however, is that you have to pay for each.

Using a specific example, let's say that Heat Shimmer and Spawning Breath are both in graveyard. Dark-Dwellers will only cost the initial 3rr to quadruple the creature count, while the adversary costs another 2r, or double that to include something like Battle Hymn.

Where Bloodthirsty Adversary is best by comparison, in my opinion, is to play it out early for 2 without a flashback when you have Heat Shimmer or Twinflame in hand.

That would be explosive, without even considering the multi-kick options. In that same scenario, add Battle Hymn and on the 'flashback' of heat shimmer making two copies of adversary I believe the first trigger to resolve could flashback the ritual and pay for more 'flashback's from the second copy of adversary.

All considered, it should be tested. I'm a bit concerned about having enough goblins for Brightstone Ritual so I should test another swap in addition to Dark-dwellers.

EDIT: Unrelated to this deck, but more effects with the same wording as Mizzix's Mastery makes my Feather, the Redeemed deck feel a bit left out, but it does get around anti-flashback and escape cards like Grafdigger's Cage.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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