30+ Creature Type Changeling Tribal

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materpillar
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Post by materpillar » 2 years ago

offspring wrote:
2 years ago
Well that's extraordinary. The main reason I doubt Spellstutter Sprite is because sometimes I lack changeling presence. You had twelve at the time? I'm not sure I ever had that much to begin with, let alone with the sprite in hand.
It was a large board state after a semi-storm turn (thanks Risen Reef) plus Mirror Entity.

I'll have to consider adding back in a Haakon, Stromgald Scourge package. It's always just on the edge of the list. I've been considering making a second deck with all the cards I've cut too. So many options.

narglfrob wrote:
2 years ago
Fwiw, I run Merrow Reejerey with Pyre of Heroes to very good results.

I like Merrow Reejerey because:
  • It allows you to activate Pyre of Heroes multiple times in one turn
  • It effectively makes all changelgings cost one coloured mana less (so many of them become totally free)
  • It goes (nearly) infinite with Hibernation Sliver because of this
  • It generates LOTS of mana with something like Harabaz Druid or similar.
Because Merrow Reejerey goes infinite (or nearly so) in so many different ways, I consider it one of the most threatening cards in my deck.

For enabling Haakon, Stromgald Scourge I currently only run Pyre and Voldaren Estate (i.e. I mostly rely on getting The Ur-Dragon into play via Morophon, the Boundless when I want to get Haakon, Stromgald Scourge into play from my hand). I should probably revisit Cryptbreaker and Cryptic Gateway and Goblin Chirurgeon (as a payoff)
Do note that Merrow Reejerey is a cast trigger so the Changeling ETBing off Pyre of Heroes won't trigger it to untap the pyre. Bah. You constantly recommend this card and I really need to give it a test one of these days. Maybe I should cut Moggcatcher/Tuktuk Scrapper for Seahunter/Merrow Reejerey. Hrmm.

I've played a bunch of aristocrats decks before and I don't personally enjoy the play patterns much so I've no real desire to test Goblin Chirurgeon. I know I won't be able to resist the draw of articulation stuff if I start moving that direction.
TankReady wrote:
2 years ago
Stuff stuff
Welcome welcome! Holidays are here so I don't have a ton of time to look over your deck list.

As for Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Crib Swap is the easiest answer as you're aware of. Sliver Overlord can also find Amoeboid Changeling which can turn her into a sliver so the overlord can steal her. You also have Peer Pressure. If you need more answers there's also New Blood and Mark of the Oni.

A huge struggle with this deck is how much it really wants to overcommit to the board and get blown out with a wrath spell. There's a handful of cards that make you more resilient to board wipes like Haakon, Stromgald Scourge, Knight Exemplar, Sliver Hivelord and such.


Hellkite Courser is extremely strong with The Ur-Dragon. I personally stick to an extremely rigid restriction of every card must increase the relevant creature types of my Changelings so I won't run it.

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Post by narglfrob » 2 years ago

Hey all, I'm brewing a new version of the deck. What are the most efficient / repeatable / best ways to return <some creature type> from GY to hand?

Edit: I'm asking because I was looking for redundant ways to get value out of Wings of Velis Vel (et.al.) outside of Haakon, Stromgald Scourge, unfortunately I can't find any.

After brewing a Hidden Orvar list, I was inspired to try the following package in my changeling list. I'll get some testing in and let everyone know how it goes: These changes are live in the decklist linked in my signature.

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Post by materpillar » 2 years ago

narglfrob wrote:
2 years ago
Hey all, I'm brewing a new version of the deck. What are the most efficient / repeatable / best ways to return <some creature type> from GY to hand?

Edit: I'm asking because I was looking for redundant ways to get value out of Wings of Velis Vel (et.al.) outside of Haakon, Stromgald Scourge, unfortunately I can't find any.

After brewing a Hidden Orvar list, I was inspired to try the following package in my changeling list. I'll get some testing in and let everyone know how it goes: These changes are live in the decklist linked in my signature.
Liliana, Untouched by Death does a good Haakon impression.

Angel of Flight Alabaster, Myr Reservoir, Wort, Boggart Auntie, and Lord of the Undead can all do what you want once per turn. Atzocan Seer is a once off.

Ghoulcaller's Chant, March of the Drowned, Grim Captain's Call can get Orvar, the All-Form and Wings of Velis Vel back.

Iname, Life Aspect gets them all back to your hand with some effort. There's also soulshift cards (Elder Pine of Jukai/thief of hope).

I'd highly recommend running Nameless Inversion/Spit Flame. They both frequently kill whatever creature they're targeting of yours (so you can't go wide without a big creature) but you'll still get an Orvar copy so they offer additional redundancy. Nameless Inversion can also be looped with Haazda Exonerator. Spit Flame is 2RR get a Changeling trigger (with Orvar, the All-Form. Plus they're both just additional removal which is always good to have.

[edit]now I want to slap Orvar, the All-Form and Nameless Inversion in my deck. >.<

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Post by offspring » 2 years ago

materpillar wrote:
2 years ago
[edit]now I want to slap Orvar, the All-Form and Nameless Inversion in my deck. >.<
I have an Orvar in my binder, and never played it because it's basically a 3 mana 3/3 in our list, which isn't very efficient. Was looking for a spot for Nameless Inversion as well. Even though that would be the only instant/sorcery that could target anything with Orvar out, it ís tutorable and just might be worth it. Just might test that out.

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Post by Tribbles » 2 years ago

offspring wrote:
2 years ago
materpillar wrote:
2 years ago
[edit]now I want to slap Orvar, the All-Form and Nameless Inversion in my deck. >.<
I have an Orvar in my binder, and never played it because it's basically a 3 mana 3/3 in our list, which isn't very efficient. Was looking for a spot for Nameless Inversion as well. Even though that would be the only instant/sorcery that could target anything with Orvar out, it ís tutorable and just might be worth it. Just might test that out.
I have always thought that not using Orvar was a bit of a missed opportunity. Obviously difficult though. There must be some way to achieve this?

Recently, I played a game with my WIP version of this deck. If anyone isn't using Grolnok, the Omnivore, you should be! It generated an insane amount of advantage, especially when paired with Maskwood Nexus. I did lose that particular game to a 20/20 islandwalk Squid token... More instant speed options would be good for my brew, so maybe an Orvar isn't too far off the cards? (I mean, even though it's a non-bo with Grolnok... hmm...)
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Post by offspring » 2 years ago

Tribbles wrote:
2 years ago
If anyone isn't using Grolnok, the Omnivore, you should be!
Is it that good? I really liked it at first glance, but it feels like a HUGE riskwhen it gets exiled (or destroyed, but that would be less of a problem with the right recursion). My meta runs a ton of spot removal so I feel like it's quite dangerous. Also, it's kind of a nonbo with Haakon. A draw-two upon attack per changeling does sound spicy. How are other peoples experiences with it? I'd probably replace Vanquisher's Banner if I were to try it out.

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Post by Tribbles » 2 years ago

offspring wrote:
2 years ago
Tribbles wrote:
2 years ago
If anyone isn't using Grolnok, the Omnivore, you should be!
Is it that good? I really liked it at first glance, but it feels like a HUGE riskwhen it gets exiled (or destroyed, but that would be less of a problem with the right recursion). My meta runs a ton of spot removal so I feel like it's quite dangerous. Also, it's kind of a nonbo with Haakon. A draw-two upon attack per changeling does sound spicy. How are other peoples experiences with it? I'd probably replace Vanquisher's Banner if I were to try it out.
I can't speak to other people's experiences of it, but I quickly exiled up to half my deck with Grolnok, Maskwood Nexus, and a few creatures out. It gave me a lot of options in terms of casting creatures as I play Mana Echoes and Cryptic Gateway. It smoothes out land drops too. It definitely doesn't mesh with Haakon perfectly, but you could definitely use Haakon to get Grolnok back out the GY. So long as the exiled cards have croak counters on them, it doesn't matter if you've brought Grolnok back a few times, or have a token copy (like with Hofri Ghostforge), etc, you can play them regardless so long as it's on the battlefield. It's a great engine all by itself.

My meta is slightly less interaction-heavy though. Once your opponents learn about its threat, it might not stick around. Even giving it haste and getting one or two mills out of it I think warrants trying it out.
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Post by offspring » 2 years ago

Well the frog catching some removal that was bound to be used anyway isn't the worst. Threat assessment against our list is really hard in my opinion and we shouldn't make that any easier, should we? Exiling Haakon would be miserable since he's done some incredible work recently. Other than that, I can really see how attacking with a frog will feel like a draw three every time.

In other news, played a 1v1 against Orvar, the All-Form yesterday. Was a really neat game in which both decks were able to shine. Most notable was that I was able to get to turn 8 with just four lands, while never feeling behind, thanks to Birchlore Rangers, Avian Changeling, Shapesharer and Magda, Brazen Outlaw. Yay low mana curve. Eventually, I tutored for Maskwood Nexus and quickly ran away with the game. The win came from being able to cheat in Gilt-Leaf Archdruid, steal 20+ islands, exiling the four copies of Orvar, the All-Form on the other side of the battlefield with Crib Swap and swinging in for the win with a ton of buffed changelings thanks to Knight Exemplar, Morophon, the Boundless and Magda, Brazen Outlaw. I do believe that if I hadn't won that turn, he would have taken it. Haakon, Stromgald Scourge doing some really good work once more (although I think it was a win-more this time), and Birchlore Rangers and Pyre of Heroes continue to overperform. The latter gave me two changelings from Irregular Cohort which proved to be just what I needed with Magda, Brazen Outlaw.

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Post by Sefir » 2 years ago

I didnt playtest the frog, but I playtested the slug a lot. Whenever Toxrill, the Corrosive hits the battlefield and stays for half of a turn, my opponents scoop. He is MUCH more powerful than Silumgar (I run both) despite the lack of Hexproof. His biggest downside is that he is tribal by accident. I never used his sac ability (even though I do Haakon plays) as far as synergies are concerned. He is powerful just by his own. Also probably unfun for the table.
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Post by narglfrob » 2 years ago

I've gotten two games in now with the Orvar package:
- First game I was able to use Absorb Identity on a Scourge of Valkas with Orvar out and a pretty wide board... LOL. Safe to say I won that game. However, I suspect this says more about the power of Absorb Identity than Orvar, which was a surprise to me... this card may stay in even if Orvar doesn't make the cut.
- Second game, I had Wings of Velis Vei in hand, and tutored for Orvar as the bottom of a Goblin Recruiter Pile (that was topped by Realmwalker). Sadly I was forced to use the Velis Vei to save a Mothdust Changeling from a 2dmg removal "wasting" the Orvar trigger. I then saw no other cards to trigger Orvar through out the game.
- Of note, during the second game I was given 3 tokens by a Daryl, Hunter of Walkers player. It's amazing how just these 3 additional bodies really accelerated the efficacy of Mirror Entity (I actually won that game due to Magda tutoring for Mirror Entity). I guess, no surprise to anyone here, news flash, Mirror Entity is good!

Overall, I'm unimpressed with Orvar is this deck (specifically our self imposed restriction to only run tribal cards), since the density of things that trigger him is so low, and none of them are readily repeatable. If
- A) one were to relax the tribal only restriction, or
- B) the Haakon engine were to become more reliable (i.e. they print more cards like Pyre of Heroes) (so that we can abuse Wings of Velis Vei and similar more readily)
Then the Orvar subtheme becomes much better.

I'll keep an eye on future printings, but will probably phase out the Orvar package in my list, and reserve by Orvar+Haakon shenanigans to my deck dedicated solely to them (which relaxes the tribal only restriction) (https://www.moxfield.com/decks/iD7ONtPX70OzR9qF9lMeSg)

Of note, I was really struck by how good Mirror Entity is, and how high the ceiling is for Mirror Entity with payoffs like Magda that don't depend on ETB triggers. Its basically Maskwood Nexus on a tutor-able body (that's also readily recurrable via Graveshifter).

I think for my next wave of testing, I will lean into the Mirror Entity plan, by
- A) Trying cards that add more bodies to the field, to scale up the impact of Mirror Entity, such as Najeela and Millicent. The fact that these are "dead" without Mirror Entity is offset by just how easy it is to tutor Mirror Entity.
- B) revisiting, and perhaps slightly bias-ing my payoffs to ones that don't rely on ETBs. Maybe cutting Naban, Dean of Iteration, Necroduality etc.

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Post by narglfrob » 2 years ago

Ok so I've been testing a few new ideas and just had a banger of a game where I got super lucky, my opponents got greedy, I popped off and I got to exercise some of the new cards. Here's a little game log since it makes me smile, and then I'll talk thru some of the new cards.

Me (The Ur Dragon) , Mazirek, Tayam (3 player game)
  • Turn 2 Manaweft Sliver
  • Turn 3 Necroduality (my opponents had Marizek and Tayam hit the field earlier that turn cycle)
  • Turn 4 Realmwalker (copied by Necroduality), Forerunner of the Coalition tutoring a Universal Automaton the top, which I played off the top (via Realmwaler) which was doubled by Necroduality. Forerunner drains table for 2. (opponents cast more ramp, card draw and synergy pieces)
  • Turn 5 my Necroduality was hit by a Reclamation Sage from the Mazirek player, who also starts to pressure my life total, putting me at 26. I play Magda and Goblin Matron which tutors for Mirror Entity, which I cast (my hand is now empty). I swing for some chip dmg and pass the turn with 3 treasures up and 2 untapped changelings (manaweft sliver is in play). This gamble pays off, as my opponents didn't realize I could make 2 more treasures, so mis-assesed my threat level.
    • Note: at the time of testing, I had removed the top end of my dragon curve as part of an experiment (including Morophon!!) Not something I'd necessarily recommend. This explains why I didn't tutor for some bomb here.
  • Turn 6 for the two opponents ahead of me left Mazirek with a giant board (3 creatures over 10/10) which he decided to stay back and defend with (a stroke of luck for me). I think his thought process here was to play the long game with his 11/11 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord. Tayam also had a board of synergy pieces (Cruel Celebrant, Morbid Opportunist, Promise of Bunrei and a few more). They had each traded some artifact and enchantment removal back and forth.
  • This is where it gets fun!
    • My Turn 6 I untap with a board of Manaweft Sliver, 5 changelings (1 Mirror Entity, 2 from the deceased Necroduality), a Forerunner of the Coalition, a Goblin Matron, 5 treasures and 5 lands. Here's where we pop off.
    • I cast The Ur-Dragon, and pay my last mana into Mirror Entity to make everything a changeling (10 creatures in play, 9 of which can attack).
      • Looking back, this is where the Tayam player got greedy by not using their Assassin's Trophy that we will see in a minute. Not sure on the rationale here.
    • I attack with 9 creatures at Mazirek and draw 9 cards, putting Molten Echoes into play off Ur Dragon naming Ninjas (you'll see why in a sec). I make 9 treasures with Magda.
    • I negotiate with Mazirek so he doesn't block, in exchange I promise not to pump with Mirror Entity, I could have done lethal damage even after blocks). I have better plans for that mana!
    • I ninjitsu in an Ingenious Infiltrator, making a copy with Molten Echoes and drawing 18 more cards…. :o
    • From here I cast a Naban, Dean of Iteration, into a Dragon Tempest, into a random changeling.
    • Sadly, Tayam finally sees the writing on the wall and shoots off his Assasin's Trophy on the Dragon Tempest, but its far, far to late.
    • The random changeling ETBs, I get two copies of it (Molten Echoes doubled by Naban, Dean of Iteration) and Forerunner of the Coalition drains the table for 6 life each
      • Oh yeah, and the changeling copies have haste, tap for mana, and make treatures when they do…. :cool:
    • I then cast Scourge of Valkas (mah boi!) into another random changeling. Forerunner of the Coalition drains for another 6, and 6 Scourge of Valkas triggers go on the stack for 15+ dmg each.
  • Table says gg (of note, but the end of this my treasures had put Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord within one power of lethal on me!)
Now some thoughts on the new cards I've been testing:

The Panharmonicons (Naban, Dean of Iteration, Necroduality, Molten Echoes)
  • Over several games these have been fantastic. Often times being the best permanent to put into play after a big Ur Dragon Trigger, sometimes what I tutor for with a 1 mana Coveted Prize, solid on turn 3-4, some of the best targets in the deck for a Moritte of the Frost.
  • In summary, good early, good late, synergizes with the game plan (ETB abuse) and perhaps most important of all FUN! Something about doubling ETB effects is just a fundamentally fun thing to do (at least for me).
  • I was previously on the fence about these, I've come around and I suspect they will never leave my deck.
The ETB tutors on a body (Goblin Matron, Forerunner of the Coalition)
  • Specifically as a replacement for Moggcatcher et.al.
  • The Moggcather's of the world always bugged me with how clunky and slow they were.
  • Matron and Forerunner are new adds for me, but so far I am loving them, the lowe mana cost and immediate effect are terrific.
  • One thing I had previously underrated was the random body they leave behind. I think random bodies are lowkey SUPER CRUCIAL to this deck, since they supercharge Mirror Entity.
  • Moving forward, I will be prioritizing any card that leave behind a body due to this.

The on-hit draw a card lords (Yuriko, Ingenious Infiltrator, Tovolar, Dire Overlord, Grolnok, the Omnivore [/card])
  • On paper these should be awkward because A) it can be hard to get attacks through and B) they don't directly synergize with the ETB gameplan.
  • However, I'm of the growing opinion that:
    • 1) Mirror Entity often helps get attackers thru with the threat of activation
    • 2) These lords come down so early they help smooth out the early game.
  • Right now I'm trending upwards on these cards, so much so I'm testing Gallia of the Endless Dance.
The one damage pingers (Forerunner of the Coalition, Lightning-Rig Crew)
  • Initial experience with Forerunner of the Coalition (as seen above) was truly excellent. Maybe that was good luck, but draining the table for a total of 14 life for each opponent from my tutor is pretty damn spicy.
  • Lightning-Rig Crew is speculative (not played in a game yet), and it's too bad it's an on cast and not on ETB, but this is what I am thinking:
    • Unless it dies immediately, I expect its typical floor to be about 5-10 dmg to each opponent, not bad.
    • Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator you go off, each changeling cast generating 3 treasure in a 4 player game.
    • With Mirror Entity or Amoeboid Changeling you go off with any of: Magda, Manaweft Sliver (or its 3 equivalents), or Azami.
  • I've also been looking at Kalastria Healer, but will see how the first 2 pan out before I test that.
Anyways, thanks for bearing through my rambling!

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Post by materpillar » 2 years ago

Life has been crazy busy for me so I haven't gotten any more games in myself.
Sefir wrote:
2 years ago
I didnt playtest the frog, but I playtested the slug a lot. Whenever Toxrill, the Corrosive hits the battlefield and stays for half of a turn, my opponents scoop. He is MUCH more powerful than Silumgar (I run both) despite the lack of Hexproof. His biggest downside is that he is tribal by accident. I never used his sac ability (even though I do Haakon plays) as far as synergies are concerned. He is powerful just by his own. Also probably unfun for the table.
I opened one at the pre-release and he sees incredibly powerful. I image I'll end up cutting him eventually thought just because he is only tribal by accident. There's basically no situation where you'll want to sac a changeling instead of a random slug token.
narglfrob wrote:
2 years ago
Overall, I'm unimpressed with Orvar is this deck (specifically our self imposed restriction to only run tribal cards), since the density of things that trigger him is so low, and none of them are readily repeatable.
Well, that's a bit of a shame. I was hoping that he'd pan out for another avenue of silly combos.
narglfrob wrote:
2 years ago
Of note, I was really struck by how good Mirror Entity is, and how high the ceiling is for Mirror Entity with payoffs like Magda that don't depend on ETB triggers. Its basically Maskwood Nexus on a tutor-able body (that's also readily recurrable via Graveshifter).
Mirror Entity is insane. It's probably the most efficient win-condition in the deck when combined with Priest of Titania. That's ignoring all the combos and synergies it enables and how easy it is to protect with Swarmyard.
narglfrob wrote:
2 years ago
The Panharmonicons (Naban, Dean of Iteration, Necroduality, Molten Echoes)
  • Over several games these have been fantastic. Often times being the best permanent to put into play after a big Ur Dragon Trigger, sometimes what I tutor for with a 1 mana Coveted Prize, solid on turn 3-4, some of the best targets in the deck for a Moritte of the Frost.
  • In summary, good early, good late, synergizes with the game plan (ETB abuse) and perhaps most important of all FUN! Something about doubling ETB effects is just a fundamentally fun thing to do (at least for me).
  • I was previously on the fence about these, I've come around and I suspect they will never leave my deck.
Interesting. I only managed to resolve my copies a couple of times (my list can't tutor them), but they never left a strong impression on me.
narglfrob wrote:
2 years ago
The ETB tutors on a body (Goblin Matron, Forerunner of the Coalition)
  • Specifically as a replacement for Moggcatcher et.al.
  • The Moggcather's of the world always bugged me with how clunky and slow they were.
  • Matron and Forerunner are new adds for me, but so far I am loving them, the lowe mana cost and immediate effect are terrific.
  • One thing I had previously underrated was the random body they leave behind. I think random bodies are lowkey SUPER CRUCIAL to this deck, since they supercharge Mirror Entity.
  • Moving forward, I will be prioritizing any card that leave behind a body due to this.
Skyshroud Poacher/Moggcatcher are definitely slower and clunkier but they allow for a much more reactive/flexible play style that I value very highly. For example, you can cast Skyshroud Poacher then just pass the next turn with all your mana up. If everyone taps out right before your next turn you get Morophon, the Boundless and can immediately untap, cast The Ur-Dragon and swing in with Morophon, the Boundless getting a The Ur-Dragon trigger. You dodge counterspells and wraths for immediate value. If everyone is just slow playing, you can find Priest of Titania to pull ahead. If there's a must kill utility creature you can find Tolsimir, Friend to Wolves (although, I think I'm basically the only person who runs him). If someone wraths you can find Changeling Titan and save your Skyshroud Poacher for another use next turn.

I've found this deck can pull you towards a semi-storm list where you combo kill the table with Dragon Tempest stuff. Getting pulled in that direction turns you into a pretty big YOLO glass cannon where you can just explode out of the gate and murder the table by turn 6-7. However, if someone drops a wrath turn 4-5 you can just get utterly crippled. Moggcatcher and friends let you keep your threat profile a bit lower than Goblin Matron for Mirror Entity will. It's increased versatility and added resilience to hate. If your meta is extremely wrath light that's probably not a thing you need to value.
narglfrob wrote:
2 years ago
The on-hit draw a card lords (Yuriko, Ingenious Infiltrator, Tovolar, Dire Overlord, Grolnok, the Omnivore [/card])
  • On paper these should be awkward because A) it can be hard to get attacks through and B) they don't directly synergize with the ETB gameplan.
  • However, I'm of the growing opinion that:
    • 1) Mirror Entity often helps get attackers thru with the threat of activation
    • 2) These lords come down so early they help smooth out the early game.
  • Right now I'm trending upwards on these cards, so much so I'm testing Gallia of the Endless Dance.
I found that Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow was killed almost immediately every time it came onto the battlefield. It never drew me more than a card or two before biting the dust. That card just has such a high perceived threat level I didn't find it worth while. Do you have any other evasion enablers than Mirror Entity?
narglfrob wrote:
2 years ago
The one damage pingers (Forerunner of the Coalition, Lightning-Rig Crew)
  • Initial experience with Forerunner of the Coalition (as seen above) was truly excellent. Maybe that was good luck, but draining the table for a total of 14 life for each opponent from my tutor is pretty damn spicy.
  • Lightning-Rig Crew is speculative (not played in a game yet), and it's too bad it's an on cast and not on ETB, but this is what I am thinking:
    • Unless it dies immediately, I expect its typical floor to be about 5-10 dmg to each opponent, not bad.
    • Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator you go off, each changeling cast generating 3 treasure in a 4 player game.
    • With Mirror Entity or Amoeboid Changeling you go off with any of: Magda, Manaweft Sliver (or its 3 equivalents), or Azami.
  • I've also been looking at Kalastria Healer, but will see how the first 2 pan out before I test that.
Lightning-Rig Crew+Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator sounds disgusting. xD
I never really considered Forerunner of the Coalition before I'm glad to hear that its working out well for you. I'd be weary of indexing too hard into Mirror Entity, if you build around it too much people will just slowroll a Path to Exile for it.



Spoiler Season! We got basically nothing so far! Not that I'm complaining this deck is hard enough to make cuts for already.
I do have a dream of using Raiyuu, Storm's Edge to get multiple The Ur-Dragon triggers. Probably not worth trying to slot in the deck but it sounds sooooo fun. Maybe worth considering for those Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow players though.
Heiko Yamazaki, the General: For when you really want to win with Maskwood Nexus. It also gets back Universal Automaton.
Norika Yamazaki, the Poet: For when you really want your Dragon Tempest around.
Secluded Courtyard: Strictly better Unclaimed Territory if you're in that market.

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Post by Tribbles » 2 years ago

I think we just got a new piece of ramp: "Flourishing Thief"
Creature - Human Ninja
Ninjutsu 1U

Whenever one or more Ninjas or Rogues you control deal combat damage to a player, create a treasure token.
Thanks to corbiewhite on the MagicTCG subreddit for the translation:

The downside is the "or more" clause. In commander this isn't too bad, similar to Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator without the in-built evasion. Could be interesting if you're already running some ninjas?
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Post by narglfrob » 2 years ago

"I've found this deck can pull you towards a semi-storm list where you combo kill the table with Dragon Tempest stuff. Getting pulled in that direction turns you into a pretty big YOLO glass cannon where you can just explode out of the gate and murder the table by turn 6-7. However, if someone drops a wrath turn 4-5 you can just get utterly crippled. Moggcatcher and friends let you keep your threat profile a bit lower than Goblin Matron for Mirror Entity will. It's increased versatility and added resilience to hate. If your meta is extremely wrath light that's probably not a thing you need to value."
Yup, that describes my deck perfectly. These days I play exclusively pick up games on Cockatrice which is extremely board wipe lite, which may be biasing my opinions.
"I found that Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow was killed almost immediately every time it came onto the battlefield. It never drew me more than a card or two before biting the dust. That card just has such a high perceived threat level I didn't find it worth while. Do you have any other evasion enablers than Mirror Entity?"
No, other than biasing towards changelings that have natural evasion over those that do not (I play the 3cmc fliers before the 2cmc ground changelings, for instance)

"I think we just got a new piece of ramp: "Flourishing Thief""
Niiiiiice, slamming Flourishing Thief into my build!

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Post by Tribbles » 2 years ago

One of the cards I've always had a hankering to include in my list but I never could find room for was Depala, Pilot Exemplar. There just wasn't enough other Vehicle or Dwarf synergy to warrant including or building an engine around her. However, with new Kamigawa we've got a lot of interesting vehicles, as well as support for the "pilot" subtype. Mech Hangar is new and has awesome flavour. I don't know if we'll get more, but I'm going to have a try and build this.

The idea of tapping creatures to crew vehicles, which then become creatures, with Magda, Depala, and Maskwood Nexus out feels amazing.

Mecha-changelings.
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Post by materpillar » 2 years ago

Go-Shintai of Life's Origin… who's the shrine deck now eh?

@narglfrob I heard you wanted more bodies for your mirror entity?

[edit]: Shrine is an enchantment type not creature even though it's on a creature. Wamp wamp.

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Post by Tribbles » 2 years ago

narglfrob wrote:
2 years ago
Niiiiiice, slamming Flourishing Thief into my build!
Have you (or anyone else for that matter) had a chance to try Prosperous Thief in an (online) build yet? I've been thinking about it and I think it could potentially be better than Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator. You create the same amount of treasures on a successful connection (you don't have to attack with Thief, just Ninjutsu it out, right?). However, especially if you run cloning effects like Molten Echoes, Reflections of Littjara, etc. then it has the advantage of being non-legendary compared to Malcolm's legendary, allowing you to stack up more triggers. I'm going to try this out if anyone hasn't.

Also, in Haakon-related brews, has anyone tried or have any thoughts on Springjack Pasture as a sac-outlet? Expensive token generating effect but tapping and sacrificing X Goats to generate mana and life seems sweet.
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Post by narglfrob » 2 years ago

Tribbles wrote:
2 years ago
narglfrob wrote:
2 years ago
Niiiiiice, slamming Flourishing Thief into my build!
Have you (or anyone else for that matter) had a chance to try Prosperous Thief in an (online) build yet? I've been thinking about it and I think it could potentially be better than Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator. You create the same amount of treasures on a successful connection (you don't have to attack with Thief, just Ninjutsu it out, right?). However, especially if you run cloning effects like Molten Echoes, Reflections of Littjara, etc. then it has the advantage of being non-legendary compared to Malcolm's legendary, allowing you to stack up more triggers. I'm going to try this out if anyone hasn't.

Also, in Haakon-related brews, has anyone tried or have any thoughts on Springjack Pasture as a sac-outlet? Expensive token generating effect but tapping and sacrificing X Goats to generate mana and life seems sweet.
No haven't tested Prosperous Thief yet. Great points about the ability to make copies due to it being non-legendary, that is something I am often frustrated with in general. However for my build (which I would characterize as being 'all-in' on the Scourge of Valkas plan) the inability to trigger on non-combat damage is a big deal. For me Malcom is both a setup piece and a layered combo piece, which is insanely valuable (having both modes). Prosperous Thief is only ever going to be a setup piece, which limits its average utility (because the ceiling is lower). That being said, still think its gas because A) its 2cmc, B) it picks up a changeling for more ETB triggers and C) its non-legendary (as you astutely pointed out).

I am excited to test!

Springjack Pasture is a damn powerful affect, I would test it if / when getting Haakon becomes more consistent, of in a graveyard themed deck (which I totally suspect is viable!)

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Post by oteruh » 2 years ago

Hello everyone,

after reading through Tomer's primer and this thread I was so inspired that I made my own Tribal Tribal Deck. Thank you all :)

I hope you can give me some feedback on my decklist: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/9NbMp13XT0K2Lk6ZrxUMsw

Short deck explaination
I've tried to cut out all the "easy" infinity combos as much as possible, since my playgroup and I don't enjoy them very much. I'm aware that it's still possible to go infinite in this deck, but I would test the whole thing first.

I like decks that allow me to explode in one turn with fun interactions. So i decided to go mainly with the ETB strategy.
Alternatively, I win the game with Mirror Entity or a few other combos (for example Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow + Notorious Throng + Maskwood Nexus)

I also included a small Haakon package as I don't think it's harmful. Pyre of Heroes and Survival of the Fittest are good cards in general and I try to be as versatile as possible with this deck and keep different ways of playing it.

Experience so far
Yesterday i was able to test the deck for the first time in my playgroup.
Unfortunately only in two games with five people.

Game 1: No card draw and I drew too many lands. I wasn't able to make much influence in the game. Also, there was a lot of removal and I struggled to rebuild my board.

Game 2: My first attempt to take out a player was unfortunately countered: Scourge of Valkas + Notorious Throng + Maskwood Nexus + a few other creatures
Since a few other decks exploded in the meantime and I couldn't do anything great for a few turns, Maskwood Nexus didn't get destroyed.
In round 12 I was able to bring Cloudshredder Sliver + Heronblade Elite + Wirewood Sybiote + Kindred Discovery + Merrow Reejerey onto the field and thus go infitive with Maskwood Nexus.

The other deck archetyps on the table: Sliver, Aristocrats, Spellslinger & Reanimate

The biggest problems I had in these two rounds:
  • not enough card draw (although in my opinion I already have a lot of options in the deck) → I was often quickly out of hand
  • not so many options against removal/counter (maybe I need more interaction via counter by myself or more protection?)
  • Another thing I'm not sure about is the manabase

Do you have any tips for me on how I can improve the deck?
I'm not so aggressively stick to the theme as materpillar. If there are Goodstuff cards that clearly fit better, then I would accept tips here as well.
I aim to be as strong as possible with the Deck without going (easy) infinite

Thanks in advance and have a nice start of the week

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Post by Sefir » 2 years ago

oteruh wrote:
2 years ago
Hello everyone,

......
The biggest problems I had in these two rounds:
  • not enough card draw (although in my opinion I already have a lot of options in the deck) → I was often quickly out of hand
  • not so many options against removal/counter (maybe I need more interaction via counter by myself or more protection?)
  • Another thing I'm not sure about is the manabase

Do you have any tips for me on how I can improve the deck?
I'm not so aggressively stick to the theme as materpillar. If there are Goodstuff cards that clearly fit better, then I would accept tips here as well.
I aim to be as strong as possible with the Deck without going (easy) infinite

Thanks in advance and have a nice start of the week
For the protection, the deck has some options. Pure counters in the form of Tribal exists Spellstutter Sprite, Patron Wizard, Silumgar's Scorn, Wizard's Retort, etc. You already run Haakon, so the strategy of finding him with a Pyre of Heroes or something can be very important in your fights agains removal. Many times I have felt like he is the secret commander of the deck. Also, mass reanimation spells like Patriarch's Bidding, etc can be used. Finally, I have found out throughout many games, that Unsettled Mariner is an excellent card to have on board. Do not be afraid to search for it early on.

For card draw, you already have options, but both Sea Gate Loremaster and Azami, Lady of Scrolls are nice for the slots. Also, Wirewood Savage is a must. There are also Gilt-Leaf Archdruid andToxrill, the Corrosive, but they are such a feels-bad cards that I would avoid them if I were you.
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Post by narglfrob » 2 years ago

Cards under test with initial results:

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Post by offspring » 2 years ago

Hi y'all. I have a yet unnamed suggestion I think. What do we think about Fire Giant's Fury? I find myself playing more and more burst draw and while this is a bit conditional, It is generally a 2 mana draw-3 or draw-4, giving us guaranteed landdrops and with a pretty low to the ground average MV a decent chance for actual card advantage. Thoughts?

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Post by narglfrob » 2 years ago

Hey Fire Giant's Fury is cool! I will definitely test that! Nice find. Combine with Taurean Mauler for hilarity!

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 2 years ago

offspring wrote:
2 years ago
Hi y'all. I have a yet unnamed suggestion I think. What do we think about Fire Giant's Fury? I find myself playing more and more burst draw and while this is a bit conditional, It is generally a 2 mana draw-3 or draw-4, giving us guaranteed landdrops and with a pretty low to the ground average MV a decent chance for actual card advantage. Thoughts?
It also has good interaction with Orvar, the All-Form if anyone is running it. Orvar probably doesn't see a lot of triggers with most cards in these lists but that card does work with him (on some other thing given he is legendary).
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Post by Tribbles » 2 years ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
2 years ago
offspring wrote:
2 years ago
Hi y'all. I have a yet unnamed suggestion I think. What do we think about Fire Giant's Fury? I find myself playing more and more burst draw and while this is a bit conditional, It is generally a 2 mana draw-3 or draw-4, giving us guaranteed landdrops and with a pretty low to the ground average MV a decent chance for actual card advantage. Thoughts?
It also has good interaction with Orvar, the All-Form if anyone is running it. Orvar probably doesn't see a lot of triggers with most cards in these lists but that card does work with him (on some other thing given he is legendary).
I'm convinced there's an Orvar engine we can fit into this type of deck that would do work, especially with some of the Tribal instants/sorceries like Aquitect's Will...

Regarding Fire Giant's Fury, that is a nice little trick! Wish it was an instant, but you can't have everything. If you're unable to cast everything from it, a nice pairing to this might be Coax from the Blind Eternities to get back something from the exiled cards, and it's nicely on theme.
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