30+ Creature Type Changeling Tribal

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Sefir
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Post by Sefir » 2 years ago

materpillar wrote:
2 years ago

Katilda, Dawnhart Prime - Siiiiiiiiiiick. I'm always looking for more ramp. Manaweft Sliver and friends help this deck out so much. Another one is certainly an awesome addition! This deck also has a ton of random humans to turn into mana rocks and my human tribe only has Kogla, the Titan Ape right now. Peeeerfect. Now what to cut. I always want more of this effect, but I could also replace Manaweft Sliver to cut my sliver section down from 4 to 3. Hrmmm.
Well, if I would have to choose between the Slivers and Katilda, the Slivers are superior. They only need G to be played and they produce any kind of mana. However Katilda is indeed a good card and surely should be played in the deck, just not in place of another mana dork.
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Post by Tribbles » 2 years ago

Where do we even start with the Undead Unleashed card list?!

https://cardgamebase.com/midnight-hunt-commander-decks/

The other provides some good support too. I need to digest this lists more.
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Post by materpillar » 2 years ago

Tribbles wrote:
2 years ago
Where do we even start with the Undead Unleashed card list?!

https://cardgamebase.com/midnight-hunt-commander-decks/

The other provides some good support too. I need to digest this lists more.
The zombie stuff is more Haakon, Stromgald Scourge/aristocrats related, and I lean into that strategy at the moment. Personally, I doubt I'll give any of them a go.

Empty the Laboratory is in interesting enabler that might flip you into Haakon. Unfortunately, saccing a changeling to hit a changeling usually won't be worth it unless you also have Risen Reef or something out and that's asking for a lot of things to line up. I gag thinking of top-decking this card without much of a board.

Cleaver Skaab/Tomb Tyrant could generate some serious value. I dislike having to untap with them and how much mana they cost to activate. I feel like these would also be removal magnets.

Hordewing Skaab is the most interesting to me. 5 mana is a bunch. It gives another way to pitch Haakon, Stromgald Scourge while also giving all your Changelings evasion which is super nice. Plays super well with Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow and friends. I just mentioned there might be enough of these effects to build around and this is a great enabler.

Ravenous Rotbelly - could be good in some metagames.

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Post by offspring » 2 years ago

materpillar wrote:
2 years ago
Couple of interesting cards from midnight hunt so far.

A handful of considerations for all the sacrifice decks out there Wilhelt, the Rotcleaver, Jerren, Corrupted Bishop // Ormendahl, the Corrupter (extra points for enabling The Book of Exalted Deeds if that's a desire), and Falkenrath Pit Fighter

Sigarda, Champion of Light - This seems pretty win-more, coven requiring a fair boardstate already. Potentially drawing a card on attack is pretty nice though.

Tovolar, Dire Overlord // Tovolar, the Midnight Scourge - I haven't found any of these effects to be great. I ended up cutting Seafloor Oracle and Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow because I found them underwhelming. There might be enough of these effects now that there's a deck built around unblockable changelings and attacking. This gets an extra look because it's an infinite mana sink in addition to being a solid card. I love cards that double dip like that.

None of those cards are probably making my list. The final card though...
Katilda, Dawnhart Prime - Siiiiiiiiiiick. I'm always looking for more ramp. Manaweft Sliver and friends help this deck out so much. Another one is certainly an awesome addition! This deck also has a ton of random humans to turn into mana rocks and my human tribe only has Kogla, the Titan Ape right now. Peeeerfect. Now what to cut. I always want more of this effect, but I could also replace Manaweft Sliver to cut my sliver section down from 4 to 3. Hrmmm.
Been offline for a while, but did NOT miss that Katilda spoiler. That and some tribal mana fix is just what we needed. Really looking forward to getting my hands on one. On that note: Heronblade Elite is quite playable as well in my book!

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Post by materpillar » 2 years ago

offspring wrote:
2 years ago
Been offline for a while, but did NOT miss that Katilda spoiler. That and some tribal mana fix is just what we needed. Really looking forward to getting my hands on one. On that note: Heronblade Elite is quite playable as well in my book!
I played Marwyn, the Nurturer for a while and was pretty unimpressed. Heronblade Elite is a bit better but I still probably won't test it. I'd rather have Dragon's Hoard/3cc artifact rocks that dodge wrath spells.

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Post by offspring » 2 years ago

materpillar wrote:
2 years ago
offspring wrote:
2 years ago
Been offline for a while, but did NOT miss that Katilda spoiler. That and some tribal mana fix is just what we needed. Really looking forward to getting my hands on one. On that note: Heronblade Elite is quite playable as well in my book!
I played Marwyn, the Nurturer for a while and was pretty unimpressed. Heronblade Elite is a bit better but I still probably won't test it. I'd rather have Dragon's Hoard/3cc artifact rocks that dodge wrath spells.
Yeah I get that. The difference between any color vs green only is huge to me though. Never considered Marwyn, haven't even ever run Priest of Titania. Wirewood Channeler has always been 1 cmc too much for me, but Heronblade Elite might very well replace Nature's Lore in my build. If so, that would be the last 'generic' mana spell to go (aside from Wargate which is more of a generic problem solver slash utility land finder. I think, considering its ramp potential, Heronblade Elite is considerably better than, for example, Pillar of Origins.

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Post by Tribbles » 2 years ago

I've not seen it mentioned here, but has anyone ever tried Goblin Lackey in their brew? Just encountered it for the first time whilst watching it be played in a game on YouTube, I don't understand how I haven't come across it before.

Turn 1 Goblin Lackey in to Turn 2 Morophon, the Boundless seems pretty good. Granted, on subsequent turns you need to buff it and/or give it evasion, but I don't know, it seems good.
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Post by materpillar » 2 years ago

Tribbles wrote:
2 years ago
I've not seen it mentioned here, but has anyone ever tried Goblin Lackey in their brew? Just encountered it for the first time whilst watching it be played in a game on YouTube, I don't understand how I haven't come across it before.

Turn 1 Goblin Lackey in to Turn 2 Morophon, the Boundless seems pretty good. Granted, on subsequent turns you need to buff it and/or give it evasion, but I don't know, it seems good.
There's Warren Instigator if you're feeling really spicy.

7 of my 18 Changelings cost 1 which means that Goblin Lackey doesn't generate mana faster than a Manaweft Sliver does for those. Of the remaining 11 Changelings, 4 of them are really poor hits on turn 2 (Graveshifter and Changeling Hero cycle). Of the remaining 7 only two are really exciting on turn 2 (Morophon, the Boundless and Moritte of the Frost) while the remaining 5 are decent. That's not really enough hits to make me particularly excited, especially since casting this on any turn after the first sounds pretty terrible. Outside of the highroll of T2 Morophon, the Boundless, it seems not great. Is getting a free Mirror Entity on T2 really worth the risk of drawing a 1/1 with no abilities on turn 5? Also, Manaweft Sliver and friends turn on Magda, Brazen Outlaw without attacks and enable infinite combos with Changeling Berserker in addition to just being mana rocks.

I also really really like fetching Ketria Triome turn 1, which makes Goblin Lackey a good bit worse for my list in particular.

I could see Goblin Lackey doing some work in a saboteur build with more evasive outlets that also enable things like Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow.

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Post by offspring » 2 years ago

Finally got a long overdue game in yesterday! We had a table of five, and played kingdoms. I was a bandit, so my goal was t kill the king - an Oloro player in this case.

I managed to quickly establish a fine mana base with a Murmuring Bosk, revealing a Mirror Entity, after which I could play a turn one Birchlore Rangers, turn two the entity, and a turn four Moggcatcher which stayed alive for a couple of rounds only because, I assume, no one could really make out who had which role at that point. I searched for some changelings that didn't look to threatening, and only took out my Morophon, the Boundless when someone decided to finally tuck the catcher (in respons to my activatoin, the player put it on top of my library, shuffling it away). The setbacks were I wanted to be able to protect my board with an Arcane Adaptation which was countered (it should've made everything a goblin, allowing me to dig up a Knight Exemplar with moggcather and the fact that my The Ur-Dragon was immediately destroyed when I played after finding Morophon, the Boundless.

However, by then, I had a board with about 8 changelings, among which the only notable mentions were Mirror Entity, Realmwalker and Morophon, the Boundless. I also managed to put out a Katilda, Dawnhart Prime, Tovolar's Huntmaster // Tovolar's Packleader, Cryptbreaker, Wirewood Symbiote, Hibernation Sliver and a Harabaz Druid. Most of that thanks to Tovolar, that gave me at least 10 cards over the course of two turns in which I was in a struggle with a Pako/Haldan player.

I set myself up for a blowout turn, with a full board and 22 life, and with Wargate and Cateran Summons in hand. Managed to save myself when someone (who turned out to be the guard) tried to kill me with an Electrodominance for X=11 with Gisela, Blade of Goldnight out. Crib Swap to Gisela saved my guts there.

The game ended when I Wargated to Dragon Tempest and Cateran Summons brought me Universal Automaton. Harabaz Druid generated 14 mana after I made everything a changeling with Mirror Entity, I untapped it with Wirewood Symbiote that could bounce itself, generating 13 mana, that I could use to recast the symbiote, turning it into a changeling again with entity, et cetera. seeing the writing on the wall, one player countered Dragon Tempest, after which I simply attacked with enough huge/huge changelings to kill the Oloro player, the king, who was then at 100+ life.

This was the first win in a long, long time with this deck. It functions a lot better with more players, my guess is, since threat assessment for spot removal becomes harder for other players and a lot of our stuff doesn't look threatening at first sight. There wasn't a single card this game that I wasn't happy with. The only thing I was missing was easier access to a Spellstutter Sprite and a haste enabler. Other than that, had an absolute blast playing this list again.

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Post by materpillar » 2 years ago

I haven't been able to play this deck as much as I'd like recently. I've been playing with my high school friends recently. They like very battlecruiser magic. This deck has outscaled that particular meta game unfortunately. I just played a three person game with it last night. I caused a concession turn 7 and turn 8. Then, they called my deck "oppressive". Shame, because I really like this deck. Not playing it much to be able to play this to have a massively battlecruiser meta is a small price to play.

Highlights from the game include Cryptic Gateway to flash in Patron of the Vein to blow someone out mid-combat. Then, the second player (on aristocrats) reading it and going "oh…that just hoses me"

Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator is fantastic on T3 with a changeling that can swing in already out.

There aren't very many good haste outlets. Cloudshredder Sliver is far and away the best. I've tried Goblin Chieftain but found it massively underwhelming. I also ran Sylvia Brightspear and Khorvath Brightflame for a while. They're solid but I found khorvath to be a touch expensive and I really only liked Sylvia. I replaced her with Dragon Tempest which turned out to be a huge upgrade. Note: Dragon Tempest does give your fliers haste. Pretty relevant with The Ur-Dragon

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Post by Tribbles » 2 years ago

materpillar wrote:
2 years ago
I caused a concession turn 7 and turn 8. Then, they called my deck "oppressive".
Oppressive is a strong word! Do they react that way to other strategies that aren't slow, battlecruiser styles of play? Sure, when the decks kicks off, it can be quick, but it's not that consistent, nor something like star or landfall in terms of oppression. 😂
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Post by Sharpened » 2 years ago

So after reading this thread thoroughly and doing some research, I have to put together my first draft of this deck and I'd love some feedback:

Here's my list
Tribal Synergy

Commander

Instant

Approximate Total Cost:

So I'm not sure if it's quite where I want it to be, but here's my starting point.

I didn't want to limit myself with the same restrictions as materpillar, so I'm fine with some non-tribal goodstuff if it works with the deck.

I didn't want to get to degenerate with easy to execute infinite shenanigans. I also wanted more jack-of-all trades and less hyper focused on the 3 main themes discussed (bounce/etb, Haakon/grave, combat). I like the idea of being able to dip into all 3 themes, without streamlining to the point of a very linear playstyle.

I wanted to make Haakon, Stromgald Scourge work. As such, I'm running a few goodstuff tutors that work with him (Entomb, Jarad's Orders) as well as cards to take some advantage of what he can do - Pyre of Heroes, General Kudro of Drannith for example.

I like Kogla, the Titan Ape as a bounce enabler, because he does so much more. He kills creatures, he can kill artifacts/enchantments, he beats face. While he can go off with degenerate chains, it's more a side effect than a primary feature.

Stinging Study seemed like a must with a Commander with that Mana Value. It's not tribal, but I couldn't resist. My only disappointment is that none of the new Visions cycle from the Midnight Hunt commander set are anything I particularly want to be doing.

Wargate was another generic goodstuff card that I allowed myself. The versatility to grab The World Tree among anything else I might need made it seem worth including. As such, it has me trying out Battle of Frost and Fire so it can grab removal as well.

The mana base is currently untested, but I basically started with the main 5 color lands (both tribal and not), the 3 triomes I owned, then the blue fetches (as the 3 triomes turned out to be the blue ones) and some duals and shocks that I had to try and balance out the color requirement. Contested Cliffs and other tribal utility lands to finish off, as I hoped the mana could support a few colorless lands. I wonder if I would want Mutavault. Probably, but I'd love opinions.

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Post by materpillar » 2 years ago

Tribbles wrote:
2 years ago
Oppressive is a strong word! Do they react that way to other strategies that aren't slow, battlecruiser styles of play? Sure, when the decks kicks off, it can be quick, but it's not that consistent, nor something like star or landfall in terms of oppression. 😂
They're playing decks that are oftentimes only marginally better than pre-cons. They want game turns to be lasting until around 12-14 and this deck can goldfish out the table by turn 7-8. That's fairly oppressive.

Sharpened wrote:
2 years ago
I didn't want to get to degenerate with easy to execute infinite shenanigans. I also wanted more jack-of-all trades and less hyper focused on the 3 main themes discussed (bounce/etb, Haakon/grave, combat). I like the idea of being able to dip into all 3 themes, without streamlining to the point of a very linear playstyle.
In my experience, the deck isn't linear to play at all even while streamlining towards one particular theme. Just a side note.
Sharpened wrote:
2 years ago
Stinging Study seemed like a must with a Commander with that Mana Value. It's not tribal, but I couldn't resist. My only disappointment is that none of the new Visions cycle from the Midnight Hunt commander set are anything I particularly want to be doing.
Drawing 9 cards is a ton and fantastic. Taking 9 damage can be a huge downside though. Really depends on your meta. If people usually one-shot wipe the table with stuff like Craterhoof Behemoth this card will be way better than if people just chip damage for lethal.
Sharpened wrote:
2 years ago
Wargate was another generic goodstuff card that I allowed myself. The versatility to grab The World Tree among anything else I might need made it seem worth including. As such, it has me trying out Battle of Frost and Fire so it can grab removal as well.
Wargate is fantastic. It can also put Haakon, Stromgald Scourge into play. I'd be surprised if Battle of Frost and Fire is good enough. The downside of killing your own utility creatures is pretty high and 8 mana to find it off wargate is a ton. There's also Firja's Retribution, which is slower but one-sided removal.
Sharpened wrote:
2 years ago
The mana base is currently untested, but I basically started with the main 5 color lands (both tribal and not), the 3 triomes I owned, then the blue fetches (as the 3 triomes turned out to be the blue ones) and some duals and shocks that I had to try and balance out the color requirement. Contested Cliffs and other tribal utility lands to finish off, as I hoped the mana could support a few colorless lands. I wonder if I would want Mutavault. Probably, but I'd love opinions.
Not sure about your manabase. You have fetches and duals, I assume you'll be fine. I have to spread stuff out in front of me to figure out the exact number of lands I think are required. I've only ever activated Mutavault once, it's really on theme but kinda weak. At least in my build. I'd probably recommend Seaside Haven over it as a way to get Changeling value with Haakon, Stromgald Scourge / Species Specialist. Currently, you don't have any sac outlets so it looks like Haakon is mostly there to loop Crib Swap and recover from wraths.

Moggcatcher should be Skyshroud Poacher since you're running Wirewood Savage but no goblins. Alternatively, it could be Seahunter and swap Tovolar, Dire Overlord // Tovolar, the Midnight Scourge for Seafloor Oracle.

I don't think that Cryptic Gateway is going to do a whole lot for you. It shines with Changeling Titan and friends as a way to protect creatures from removal. You only have about 5 creatures you want to flash in with it.



In other news, Wizards keeps printing busted cards in tribes that don't exist... which is exactly what this deck wants. Cuts are sooooo hard.

Anje, Maid of Dishonor is a consideration for graveyard decks.
Millicent, Restless Revenant can probably also make the cut in some builds.

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Post by Tribbles » 2 years ago

materpillar wrote:
2 years ago
(Grolnok, the Omnivore) In other news, Wizards keeps printing busted cards in tribes that don't exist... which is exactly what this deck wants. Cuts are sooooo hard.

Anje, Maid of Dishonor is a consideration for graveyard decks.
Millicent, Restless Revenant can probably also make the cut in some builds.
Grolnok is amazing and hilarious as there seem to only be ~41 frogs in the entirety of Magic. I'm slightly sad it doesn't synergise with GY synergies too well, but it makes those cards untouchable so it really valuable. We don't run many non-permanents anyway.

Millicent, Restless Revenant + Hofri Ghostforge anyone?

Dominating Vampire seems really good if you can steal a strategy-centric or high MV card, then potentially sacrifice it at end of turn to act as removal.

Geistlight Snare is a new counterspell for this deck, potentially. It would suck to mill it with Grolnok though...

Vampires' Vengeance is a nice board softener/wipe.

Strefan, Maurer Progenitor might do well in aggressive brews, but making blood tokens on your end step, to wait an entire turn cycle to utilise them when he attacks is quite slow.

Voldaren Estate is another neat tribal land. Blood tokens in general and this new vampire support is better for graveyard decks, so this probably won't go in this brew?
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Post by Sharpened » 2 years ago

Thanks for the feedback.

Regarding -
Stinging Study - I think the card definitely has its weaknesses. But even though I am aware of the wisdom "Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD", when it comes to this card, I can, so I am going to.

Battle of Frost and Fire - Is probably not good enough. But I can't see Firja's Retribution being better. Slower, and not globally wiping out large swarms probably makes it not worth it. I figure I'd probably go with Crux of Fate if I cut the Battle. Being able to Wargate for a wrath would be nice, but I want something to reset against decks that go wide.

Mutavault - Didn't strike me as particularly useful or needed. Glad to hear you found the same. Seaside Haven may find its way in. I don't anticipate activating it often, but having it might be nice as long as it doesn't stop me from casting my spells. As much as I love Haakon, Stromgald Scourge, you are right that my primary mode for abusing him is looping Crib Swap , with the added ability to use him to rebuild.

Moggcatcher - So which is more important: Cateran Summons --> Moggcatcher or Skyshroud Poacher --> Wirewood Savage? Tovolar, Dire Overlord // Tovolar, the Midnight Scourge isn't getting switched out, so the Seahunter route isn't one I'm going to take (I like the pump/trample ability, as well as being bigger AND cheaper). I suspect if I had more bounce, I'd be more likely to tutor for the Savage, but without it I probably don't really need that ability.

Cryptic Gateway - I definitely see what you are saying about not having all that many creatures that I want to flash in. I'll have to test it. How important do you find the "Champion a creature" changelings? Do you have to run all of them to make them worthwhile?

As for that new frog, while he looks cool, I suspect he's going to be worse than he looks. Aside from the graveyard dis-synergy, he needs to remain in play for you to be able to cast the Croak cards. Having the cards he exiled be lost to you when he's killed (although if you recur him then you can cast them) probably keeps his ability from being as strong as you want it.

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Post by materpillar » 2 years ago

Tribbles wrote:
2 years ago
Dominating Vampire seems really good if you can steal a strategy-centric or high MV card, then potentially sacrifice it at end of turn to act as removal.
Coercive Recruiter is way better if you want this affect. It goes infinite in addition to doing all the things you mentioned.
Tribbles wrote:
2 years ago
Voldaren Estate is another neat tribal land. Blood tokens in general and this new vampire support is better for graveyard decks, so this probably won't go in this brew?
It's super solid as a land based discard outlet for Haakon, Stromgald Scourge.
Sharpened wrote:
2 years ago
Stinging Study - I think the card definitely has its weaknesses. But even though I am aware of the wisdom "Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD", when it comes to this card, I can, so I am going to.
xD
I can see this card being insane in some metagames.
Sharpened wrote:
2 years ago
Battle of Frost and Fire - Is probably not good enough. But I can't see Firja's Retribution being better. Slower, and not globally wiping out large swarms probably makes it not worth it. I figure I'd probably go with Crux of Fate if I cut the Battle. Being able to Wargate for a wrath would be nice, but I want something to reset against decks that go wide.
Crux of Fate and Realm-Cloaked Giant // Cast Off are really solid actual wraths.
Sharpened wrote:
2 years ago
Moggcatcher - So which is more important: Cateran Summons --> Moggcatcher or Skyshroud Poacher --> Wirewood Savage?
I most frequently tutor for Changelings with Cateran Summons. Not sure about other folks here. I search for Wirewood Savage decently often with the poacher.
Sharpened wrote:
2 years ago
Cryptic Gateway - I definitely see what you are saying about not having all that many creatures that I want to flash in. I'll have to test it. How important do you find the "Champion a creature" changelings? Do you have to run all of them to make them worthwhile?
I very rarely actually go infinite with the Changeling loops. I have Didgeridoo, Cryptic Gateway, Moggcatcher and Skyshroud Poacher that all synergize extremely well the champion Changelings. I flash them in a lot to fizzle removal. The champion Changelings also double up my ETB triggers if I champion a Changeling and then bounce the champion Changeling. Changeling Titan is also really good with Contested Cliffs and in general is a good early board clogger. Changeling Hero is hilarious with Widespread Brutality.
As for that new frog, while he looks cool, I suspect he's going to be worse than he looks. Aside from the graveyard dis-synergy, he needs to remain in play for you to be able to cast the Croak cards. Having the cards he exiled be lost to you when he's killed (although if you recur him then you can cast them) probably keeps his ability from being as strong as you want it.
I was thinking he'd be great to cast T5, then swing and immediately cash in a land drop for value. I don't have a ton of recursion in my list so random stuff getting exiled probably won't bother me a whole lot.



Looks decent as a sac outlet that enables Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow and friends.

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Post by Tribbles » 2 years ago

Toxrill, the Corrosive

We have a new Slug tribal card. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be (almost) Silumgar, the Drifting Death + Seaside Haven. High CMC but I'm kinda feeling it!
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Post by Sefir » 2 years ago

The fact that Silumgar can come in play with 5 mana and have an immidiate effect as opposed to Torxill's 7CMC that has to wait an entire turn makes the Dragon the superior option. BUT. It is a legendary Slug. With Slug matters ability. This is an almost unbeatable flavor!
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Post by Sharpened » 2 years ago

Sefir wrote:
2 years ago
The fact that Silumgar can come in play with 5 mana and have an immidiate effect as opposed to Torxill's 7CMC that has to wait an entire turn makes the Dragon the superior option. BUT. It is a legendary Slug. With Slug matters ability. This is an almost unbeatable flavor!
Despite being similar, I think it's not as cut and dry between Silumgar and "Slime Time"- (Wonder if that's a good nickname for Torxil?)

Silumgar is cheaper and has an almost immediate effect - combat.

The drawback being that you need to have your changelings on the board, and it only affects the player you attack.

Torxil's effect is not quite as immediate (EOT vs Combat), although I'd argue that it's basically the same for the first wave. It then triggers every EOT (not just yours) so it eats things quickly, and hits all your opponents, not just whomever you swing at. It also can do so from an otherwise empty board, which the big hard to kill dragon can't. You even get the slugs if something else kills the slimed creatures.

I suspect Silumgar is better. But the big Slug seems really good too, and has a lot of added benefits. I think the hexproof is what makes the dragon better. And while I'm not sure you need/can fit the big slimey boi, he does seem incredibly awesome and likely works really well in this deck too.

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Post by materpillar » 2 years ago

Tribbles wrote:
2 years ago
Toxrill, the Corrosive

We have a new Slug tribal card. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to be (almost) Silumgar, the Drifting Death + Seaside Haven. High CMC but I'm kinda feeling it!
Sefir wrote:
2 years ago
The fact that Silumgar can come in play with 5 mana and have an immediate effect as opposed to Torxill's 7CMC that has to wait an entire turn makes the Dragon the superior option. BUT. It is a legendary Slug. With Slug matters ability. This is an almost unbeatable flavor!
Sharpened wrote:
2 years ago
Despite being similar, I think it's not as cut and dry between Silumgar and "Slime Time"- (Wonder if that's a good nickname for Torxil?)

Silumgar is cheaper and has an almost immediate effect - combat.

The drawback being that you need to have your changelings on the board, and it only affects the player you attack.

Torxil's effect is not quite as immediate (EOT vs Combat), although I'd argue that it's basically the same for the first wave. It then triggers every EOT (not just yours) so it eats things quickly, and hits all your opponents, not just whomever you swing at. It also can do so from an otherwise empty board, which the big hard to kill dragon can't. You even get the slugs if something else kills the slimed creatures.

I suspect Silumgar is better. But the big Slug seems really good too, and has a lot of added benefits. I think the hexproof is what makes the dragon better. And while I'm not sure you need/can fit the big slimey boi, he does seem incredibly awesome and likely works really well in this deck too.
Toxrill, the Corrosive seems extremely pushed to me. I have a pretty easy time getting Patron of the Vein onto the battlefield, so I don't think 1 extra mana would present much of an issue. In terms of powerlevel, I'd guess Toxrill, the Corrosive is probably significantly stronger in slightly weaker metagames where people are going wider with slightly bigger boards. Silumgar, the Drifting Death is really good at repeatedly Pyroclasming utility commanders into oblivion to keep degenerate stuff in check early game. Toxrill, the Corrosive is more of a Pyroclasm with a suspend 1 Plague Wind that is for late-game wrathing. I think they fit slightly different niches. My instinct is that Silumgar, the Drifting Death (assuming The Ur-Dragon is your commander) is "better" since a two mana discount is quite a lot and hexproof basically guarantees it'll kill the board that needs dead with it's ability or by pulling a wrath from someone else. I think Toxrill, the Corrosive is a pretty big upgrade over our on theme wrath spells like Realm-Cloaked Giant // Cast Off since it is asymmetric.

I'm unsure of if I'll add Toxrill, the Corrosive personally though. He's technically a slug tribal card but there's basically no world where I'd actually use him to sacrifice a Changeling since he creates 1/1 slugs that will almost always be the correct sacrifice choice. That means he isn't really on theme for me. I might cut Spawning Kraken though, I haven't actually drawn that card yet and more removal is always a good choice. Also, Toxrill, the Corrosive + Gaea's Cradle seems like some tasty hilarious win-more.

In other news...

There's Reflections of Littjara and Molten Echoes. I've tested both and ended up cutting them. However, 3U over 2RR is much more stomach-able for my mana base. Reflections of Littjara being a cast trigger was pretty awful for my Didgeridoo and ETB triggering makes it play way better with my Changeling Titan cycle. I keep being unimpressed by this effect but I keep being tempted. Might give it another whirl.

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Post by Sefir » 2 years ago

materpillar wrote:
2 years ago
In other news...

There's Reflections of Littjara and Molten Echoes. I've tested both and ended up cutting them. However, 3U over 2RR is much more stomach-able for my mana base. Reflections of Littjara being a cast trigger was pretty awful for my Didgeridoo and ETB triggering makes it play way better with my Changeling Titan cycle. I keep being unimpressed by this effect but I keep being tempted. Might give it another whirl.
I think I disagree about that. Yes, in this deck an etb trigger is more powerful than a cast trigger due to all Seahunter effects and generally cheating stuff in play, but I feel like the option to choose a specific creature type with Reflections as compared to the zombie-only of Necroduality is HUGE. More than enough I casted Reflections naming a creature type of a non-changeling creature in my hand, turning the game bonkers (like naming Elemental with a Risen Reef in hand, Elf with a Wirewood Savage in hand, or even Dragon with Scourge of Valkas in hand). Necroduality is good almost exclusively for changelings. That said, I personally do not run the champion changelings though and use more cheap changelings (and creatures in general) that add to a more aggro/combo strategy than midrange. Not sure if this makes the general "copy your creatures" effect more meaningful or not.
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Post by offspring » 2 years ago

materpillar wrote:
2 years ago
In other news...

There's Reflections of Littjara and Molten Echoes. I've tested both and ended up cutting them. However, over is much more stomach-able for my mana base. Reflections of Littjara being a cast trigger was pretty awful for my Didgeridoo and ETB triggering makes it play way better with my Changeling Titan cycle. I keep being unimpressed by this effect but I keep being tempted. Might give it another whirl.
I more and more dislike enchantments that do nothing on their own. This feels like a way to catapult to the lead or winning 20% of the time, but is clucky in all other situations. I was stoked when I first saw it, but I'm really afraid that I'm going to see it doing nothing a whole lot. The Slug however, is both very cool and very impactful. I'm definitely considering that.

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Post by Tribbles » 2 years ago

I feel like there are a lot of "close, but not quite" cards coming in VOW that are applicable but not enough to warrant a spot.

Runo Stromkirk seems like one of them. I think he would work well if you're already using a Goblin Recruiter or Dwarven Recruiter to stack the top of your deck, and the recursion aspect is nice. Transforming him to Krothuss is where the real money is: +2 tokens if the creature is of the right type? Yes please. Aggro and additional ETBs.

Howlpack Piper, y'know, seems good too.
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Post by offspring » 2 years ago

Tribbles wrote:
2 years ago
I feel like there are a lot of "close, but not quite" cards coming in VOW that are applicable but not enough to warrant a spot.

Runo Stromkirk seems like one of them. I think he would work well if you're already using a Goblin Recruiter or Dwarven Recruiter to stack the top of your deck, and the recursion aspect is nice. Transforming him to Krothuss is where the real money is: +2 tokens if the creature is of the right type? Yes please. Aggro and additional ETBs.

Howlpack Piper, y'know, seems good too.
Runo Stromkirk // Krothuss, Lord of the Deep seems too clunky to me for what it does. I love jumping through hoops for this deck, but I only run 4 creatures that can transform him. Doesn't seem worth it for me.

Howlpack Piper also isn't going to make the cut for me, because cheating mana costs is cute for some creatures, but I like Moggcatcher et al. more and the investment is similar. It would have been a consideration to use it if it weren't for the sorcery speed clause.


Also wanted to share this week's game. Yesterday I "flashed" in a Reaper King using Cryptic Gateway in the end step before my turn, after which I cracked The World Tree for 11 changelings, wrecking one board. Then, because I also had Heronblade Elite in play which by then had 14 counters, I was able to smack the other remaining player with a 80/80 Chameleon Colossus that had trample because of Tovolar's Huntmaster // Tovolar's Packleader. (The colossus had base/power toughness 5/5 because of the reaper king, so it cost 'only' 16 mana to achieve.)
Won the last two games with my changelings. That's way above average and had loads of fun again.

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Post by materpillar » 2 years ago

I ended up only slotting in Toxrill, the Corrosive and Grolnok, the Omnivore (over Spawning Kraken and Emiel the Blessed). I'd probably test Necroduality but that card is super expensive right now.

I had my first in person game in about a year. Katilda, Dawnhart Prime into Moggcatcher. T4 find Morophon, the Boundless. T5 The Ur-Dragon putting Sliver Hivelord into play with morophon attack. T6 Mirror Entity and Priest of Titania to defend the board state. T7, kill everyone.

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