30+ Creature Type Changeling Tribal

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Post by materpillar » 1 year ago

Dragonlover wrote:
1 year ago
Does Baru, Wurmspeaker go in any of your decks? I feel like trample to the teams after a Mirror Entity activation is pretty cool.

Dragonlover
I have never had any problems killing people with Mirror Entity but I prioritize evasive changelings over value changelings (IE Avian Changeling and Mistwalker over Realmwalker and Unsettled Mariner). Usually when I kill people with Mirror Entity I've gone infinite or otherwise massively popped off and have 15 creatures on board + Harabaz Druid and Entity is just the most efficient way to end the game without durdling.

I also don't prioritize stat buffs at all. I've found that Crucible of Fire was strong enough to turn Changelings into viable damage threats. +2/+2 isn't quite there but if you stack a couple of those lords it'll be solid. I just personally don't play my version of this deck to attack with my creatures a whole lot.

@Gentle Giant is getting a lot of toys for his modular build though.

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Post by Tribbles » 1 year ago

Might swapping Dragon Tempest with the new Be'lakor, the Dark Master be a good choice? Haste is nice though and card draw might be covered by Grolnok and co. but this dude looks pretty sick.

Not sure how we feel about to 40K cards but there isn't too much amazing other tribal support in it afaics.
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Post by Sefir » 1 year ago

Tribbles wrote:
1 year ago
Might swapping Dragon Tempest with the new Be'lakor, the Dark Master be a good choice? Haste is nice though and card draw might be covered by Grolnok and co. but this dude looks pretty sick.

Not sure how we feel about to 40K cards but there isn't too much amazing other tribal support in it afaics.
I personally refuse to play with or against such cards. Especially these last ones from 40K are totally unbalanced and ruin the game expperience. Take this one, for example. Just a Rite of Replication on it, ends the game.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

Sefir wrote:
1 year ago
I personally refuse to play with or against such cards. Especially these last ones from 40K are totally unbalanced and ruin the game expperience. Take this one, for example. Just a Rite of Replication on it, ends the game.
I just thought I would point out that there are a lot of creatures that a kicked rite of rep ends the game with such as Gray Merchant of Asphodel and Terror of the Peaks who are not special print cards. I get the dislike for specialty print but at this point I am not really going to get mad at some six drop that could be a problem if it lives past entering play. The number of threats that meet that mark is kind of high these days.

My own take on the demon is that its fine but it competes with a lot of cards at six and I don't really love its effect either on its etb or future demons entering. Lots of changelings have bad stats for the future etbs and I don't like to assume that I will be set up with a bunch of stuff for my six drop to just drop into play for. I don't think its that great on either end.

I did run Dragon's Tempest in my own list but only because it was cheap and my deck was built on cascading which is heavier on card advantage and I had additional incentive to run low curve cards like tempest.
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Post by Falkenbach » 1 year ago

Psionic Ritual this is really a fun card to play arround. It is very situational tho, but today i was able to cast Eerie ultimatum into 7 times 13 damage with Dragon tempest. But it was because of an opponents Mesmeric Orb that this went, i replicated 6 spells, all removal which would also be quiet epic if it wasnt for de Eerie Ultimatum

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Post by materpillar » 1 year ago

Tribbles wrote:
1 year ago
Might swapping Dragon Tempest with the new Be'lakor, the Dark Master be a good choice? Haste is nice though and card draw might be covered by Grolnok and co. but this dude looks pretty sick.
I think Dragon Tempest is significantly stronger for several reasons. Obviously it is way less mana intensive. Being an enchantment makes it much more resistant to removal. Haste on The Ur-Dragon is very relevant. It deals damage based on number of changelings not per changeling's power. That means it'll do way more more damage in concert with Mirror Entity and Maskwood Nexus.
Falkenbach wrote:
1 year ago
Psionic Ritual this is really a fun card to play arround. It is very situational tho, but today i was able to cast Eerie ultimatum into 7 times 13 damage with Dragon tempest. But it was because of an opponents Mesmeric Orb that this went, i replicated 6 spells, all removal which would also be quiet epic if it wasnt for de Eerie Ultimatum

I've only cast it once and sniped Rise of the Dark Realms so my experience has been good.



I need to make cuts …
Rivaz of the Claw, Be'lakor, the Dark Master and Ohabi Caleria

Probably Silumgar, the Drifting Death, Grolnok, the Omnivore and Tuktuk Scrapper?

Any you guys running any Merfolks? Tuktuk Scrapper was the only goblin in my list. I might swap back over to Seahunter from Moggcatcher for mana reasons.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

materpillar wrote:
1 year ago
I need to make cuts …
Rivaz of the Claw, Be'lakor, the Dark Master and Ohabi Caleria

Probably Silumgar, the Drifting Death, Grolnok, the Omnivore and Tuktuk Scrapper?

Any you guys running any Merfolks? Tuktuk Scrapper was the only goblin in my list. I might swap back over to Seahunter from Moggcatcher for mana reasons.
Vodalian Hexcatcher did make me look back at my changeling concept. Mine was a little different being cascade based so I probably chained more low cost things to play and a low cost anthem / counter play option in a deck that doesn't play counter magic well due to cascade synergy would be probably better in my specific setup.

I would also be hard pressed to cut Silumgar from my own list but I love having interaction in my lists. Rivaz of the Claw looks decent to me but I don't know about the other two but I think from a testing perspective its fine to test anything I just don't have much faith in them.
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Post by materpillar » 1 year ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
1 year ago
materpillar wrote:
1 year ago
I need to make cuts …
Rivaz of the Claw, Be'lakor, the Dark Master and Ohabi Caleria

Probably Silumgar, the Drifting Death, Grolnok, the Omnivore and Tuktuk Scrapper?

Any you guys running any Merfolks? Tuktuk Scrapper was the only goblin in my list. I might swap back over to Seahunter from Moggcatcher for mana reasons.
Vodalian Hexcatcher did make me look back at my changeling concept. Mine was a little different being cascade based so I probably chained more low cost things to play and a low cost anthem / counter play option in a deck that doesn't play counter magic well due to cascade synergy would be probably better in my specific setup.

I would also be hard pressed to cut Silumgar from my own list but I love having interaction in my lists. Rivaz of the Claw looks decent to me but I don't know about the other two but I think from a testing perspective its fine to test anything I just don't have much faith in them.
My dragon cards are Spit Flame, Silumgar, the Drifting Death and Dragon Tempest. Whichever one I cut is going to be lowering my interaction unfortunately. I figured I'd cut him because he's the most expensive CMC wise and replacing him with Be'lakor is kind of a side grade. I've been really happy with him so far. I think Dragon Tempest is straight stronger and Spit Flame houses utility commanders more efficiently early game.

I want to try Ohabi Caleria because you can end of turn tutor Mirror Entity with Skyshroud Poacher. Find Ohabi Caleria during your turn and have a Skyshroud Poacher trigger every player turn. It's a pretty minimal package that has pretty insane upside. Plus she has cute card draw synergy with Be'lakor, the Dark Master and Dragon Tempest.

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Post by Sefir » 1 year ago

materpillar wrote:
1 year ago
Any you guys running any Merfolks? Tuktuk Scrapper was the only goblin in my list. I might swap back over to Seahunter from Moggcatcher [/card] for mana reasons.
I still run Merrow Reejerey and Sea Gate Loremaster. Both powerful, both fetchable with Seahunter. That said, I also run the full trio of Seahunter, Moggcatcher and Skyshroud Poacher.
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Post by materpillar » 1 year ago

Huh. Done for the Day is somewhat interesting. Completely ignoring the sticker bit, create a treasure during your end step isn't the worst.

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Post by offspring » 1 year ago

Aight, trying to respond to a lot of what's been going on in this thread.

I'm going to replace Merrow Commerce with Ohabi Caleria. Same untaps, a little upside draw-wise and I still run Skyshroud Poacher. Hoping to some day find Amoeboid Changeling and Ohabi together to chain tutoring some changelings - seems cute.

As for dragons, Rivaz of the Claw is worth it for me already if you run just changelings and The Ur-Dragon as your commander. Aside from that, I currently only run Dragon Tempest, Temple of the Dragon Queen and Dragon's Hoard as a dragon-related cards. I kinda like Be'lakor, the Dark Master but think his MV is a bit steep - the only >5MV cards I run are Morophon, the Boundless and The Ur-Dragon himself, which are both undisputed IMO. Having said that, it might be wise to fill up the 6MV spot because of Pyre of Heroes, but if I would choose to, I'd probably run Silumgar, the Drifting Death before Be'lakor.

From Dominaria United, I'm running Ohabi Caleria, Rivaz of the Claw and I'm still doubting if I want to play Rohgahh, Kher Keep Overlord. What are you're thoughts on the latter? I think he's cute and absolutely a potential finisher, but it's a tad expensive and the number of lords we're able to run is limited...

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Post by materpillar » 1 year ago

offspring wrote:
1 year ago
From Dominaria United, I'm running Ohabi Caleria, Rivaz of the Claw and I'm still doubting if I want to play Rohgahh, Kher Keep Overlord. What are you're thoughts on the latter? I think he's cute and absolutely a potential finisher, but it's a tad expensive and the number of lords we're able to run is limited...
I think he's almost strictly worse than Lathliss, Dragon Queen. Speaking of looking for a 6cmc card. She was stupidly strong when I ran her, I just like my cards to be pro-active and reactive when I can manage it. She's just a massive offensive threat. She might be worth a test for you as a Pyre of Heroes target.

[edit]:
Tuktuk ScrapperOhabi Caleria Tuktuk has been underwhelming me recently. 4cmc feels like more and more. Repeated artifact removal is nice, but casting this just feels so sluggish.
MoggcatcherSeahunter Tuktuk Scrapper is the only goblin in my list so I'm swapping over to Seahunter for mana reasons.
Azami, Lady of ScrollsSea Gate Loremaster Azami is way stronger than Sea Gate Loremaster. That being said, UUU is rough. Being able to tutor for this with Seahunter is the main reason I'm making the swap though.
Grolnok, the OmnivoreRivaz of the Claw I've only stuck Grolnok once and he was great. I'm just really weary of Grolnok eating almost immediate removal and being underwhelming. Rivaz is ramp and more consistent card advantage.
Silumgar, the Drifting DeathBe'lakor, the Dark Master Not confident in this swap. ETB draw cards + additional removal seems cute though. Just want to give it a test. Need to cut a dragon for Rivaz to find his way in.

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Post by Falkenbach » 1 year ago

Sulumgar is a 5 drop with ur dragon tho its really a bomb when i play it tho so hes gonna stay for me :)

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Post by offspring » 1 year ago

materpillar wrote:
1 year ago
I think he (Rohgahh, Kher Keep Overlord, red.) is almost strictly worse than Lathliss, Dragon Queen. Speaking of looking for a 6cmc card. She was stupidly strong when I ran her, I just like my cards to be pro-active and reactive when I can manage it. She's just a massive offensive threat. She might be worth a test for you as a Pyre of Heroes target.
Yeah, you're right. I think I was kinda blinded by the potential of adding kobold tribal and the amount of text on him.
materpillar wrote:
1 year ago
Silumgar, the Drifting DeathBe'lakor, the Dark Master Not confident in this swap. ETB draw cards + additional removal seems cute though. Just want to give it a test. Need to cut a dragon for Rivaz to find his way in.
I'm actually thinking of adding both of these. Feel like my list is lacking interaction and depending too much on it's own boardstate. For resiliency I might be adding Timber Protector again as well, since my meta is moving towards playing more boardwipes.

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Post by materpillar » 1 year ago

Falkenbach wrote:
1 year ago
Sulumgar is a 5 drop with ur dragon tho its really a bomb when i play it tho so hes gonna stay for me :)
Silumgar, the Drifting Death has been fire for me. It's just that I max out at 3 dragon cards. Dragon Tempest is certainly stronger. Spit Flame can lock out annoying utility commanders like Chulane, Teller of Tales for the entire game in a way that Silumgar, the Drifting Death cannot. Silumgar, the Drifting Death is a plague wind when things are going well, but he's a lot weaker in a wrath heavy situation. It's more of a meta choice for me.
offspring wrote:
1 year ago
Yeah, you're right. I think I was kinda blinded by the potential of adding kobold tribal and the amount of text on him.
I feel that. XD
I'm actually thinking of adding both of these. Feel like my list is lacking interaction and depending too much on it's own boardstate. For resiliency I might be adding Timber Protector again as well, since my meta is moving towards playing more boardwipes.
I'd recommend Knight Exemplar (wooo Haakon, Stromgald Scourge synergy) or Sliver Hivelord (protects itself). I've also had some good experience with Linvala, Shield of Sea Gate since she's cheap, can be wizard cycled for and protects you against targeted removal while also being situation removal herself. That being said Timber Protector is a tree and way easier on the mana.

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Post by Sefir » 1 year ago

I will not run Be'lakor, the Dark Master since, apart from Dragon Tempest, I also run Scourge of Valkas as my main finisher and I consider both vastly superior (and I also try to avoid 40K cards if possible, but this is another story entirely). I removed Minsc & Boo, Timeless Heroes. The card mostly worked when everything else was working as well (some very fun shenanigans though!) and it didn't had the power I expected at 4CMC to give me a push when I was behind. Removed Silumgar as well. The poor dragon did nothing wrong, he performed excellently, but these days I am more interested in protecting my board than removing others. Sliver Hivelord comes in (I do play Haakon, but I never liked the fact that Exemplar does not protect herself). I want to try Ohabi Caleria too, but with a twist. Patron Wizard comes back in. To fit space, I also removed Moggcatcher (still have Seahunter and Skyshroud Poacher in) and Tuktuk Scrapper (I agree that 4cmc is too much for the effect), thus leaving Goblin Chirurgeon as the sole and supreme goblin in my list.
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Post by offspring » 1 year ago

materpillar wrote:
1 year ago
Silumgar, the Drifting Death has been fire for me. It's just that I max out at 3 dragon cards. Dragon Tempest is certainly stronger. Spit Flame can lock out annoying utility commanders like Chulane, Teller of Tales for the entire game in a way that Silumgar, the Drifting Death cannot. Silumgar, the Drifting Death is a plague wind when things are going well, but he's a lot weaker in a wrath heavy situation. It's more of a meta choice for me.
Yeah, I should add Spit Flame. I run it in my Vrondiss list and it's been decent. But like I said, I lack removal. This is pretty efficient and card advantage in a way as well. Will try to find a spot for this. Might go looking for Scourge of Valkas too.
materpillar wrote:
1 year ago
I'd recommend Knight Exemplar (wooo Haakon, Stromgald Scourge synergy) or Sliver Hivelord (protects itself). I've also had some good experience with Linvala, Shield of Sea Gate since she's cheap, can be wizard cycled for and protects you against targeted removal while also being situation removal herself. That being said Timber Protector is a tree and way easier on the mana.
Knight Exemplar is in my list, yeah. He's been great. I personally try to avoid more slivers since I'm already running 3 (Manaweft Sliver, Gemhide Sliver and Hibernation Sliver), and my manabase is pretty good, so I might give Linvala, Shield of Sea Gate a go. The side quest of having a full party is neat, and there's synergy with Azami, Lady of Scrolls as well. I like the low cost of 3MV too.
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Post by Falkenbach » 1 year ago

I am really torn between Spit Flame or Tuktuk Scrapper. Both work on a simular way but i think more often you will need to remova a creature than an artifact..

atm running 4 creature removal spells (with peer pressure 5) which is pretty low. (5 artifact removal with tuk tuk and 4 enchantment removal )

How are you guys on removal/interaction? How many and wich ones do you run? I don't wanna run staple removal or countermagic in this deck.

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Post by materpillar » 1 year ago

Falkenbach wrote:
1 year ago
I am really torn between Spit Flame or Tuktuk Scrapper. Both work on a simular way but i think more often you will need to remova a creature than an artifact..

atm running 4 creature removal spells (with peer pressure 5) which is pretty low. (5 artifact removal with tuk tuk and 4 enchantment removal )

How are you guys on removal/interaction? How many and wich ones do you run? I don't wanna run staple removal or countermagic in this deck.
I'd say Spit Flame keeping degenerate commanders off the board is really nice. Tuktuk Scrapper hasn't aged super well. Hard casting it feels way worse as everyone plays lower cmc spells now a days. It's still worth considering if you're running Moggcatcher or there's a lot of non-mana rock artifacts in your meta. The damage it puts out can add up pretty good.

I'm running a ton of removal. My instant/sorcery suite is fairly small. I'm running Peer Pressure, Spit Flame and Crib Swap (plus Cateran Summons to find it).

My misc removal is Liliana, Untouched by Death, Dragon Tempest and Be'lakor, the Dark Master but these are more for pinging utility creatures until I'm really popping off. I've also got Boseiju, Who Endures.

My creature based removal is
Reaper King
Patron of the Vein
Tolsimir, Friend to Wolves (and by extension Skyshroud Poacher)
Kogla, the Titan Ape
Linvala, Shield of Sea Gate
Masked Vandal
Spellstutter Sprite (by extension Vedalken Aethermage)

That being said I've also got The Scarab God/Graveshifter as recursion for the creature based removal.

Also, with some assistance Hibernation Sliver/Wirewood Symbiote/Walker of Secret Ways can flicker my creature based removal. Changeling Hero (the whole champion cycle)/Moritte of the Frost/Glasspool Mimic // Glasspool Shore can also double up on my creature based removal.

All in total I have about 14 hard removal spells/tutors for them, plus 5 recursions/light removal, plus 8 ways to double up on my other removal. So a total of 14-27 depending on what exactly you want to count.

For example, recently when I played this deck I got 4 triggers out of Patron of the Vein by casting him, flickering him and reanimating him. Spit Flame/Reaper King/Dragon Tempest can also be used multiple times by just casting a Changeling.

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Post by Sefir » 1 year ago

Falkenbach wrote:
1 year ago
How are you guys on removal/interaction? How many and wich ones do you run? I don't wanna run staple removal or countermagic in this deck.
I personally run countermagic in the deck, but always in the form of tribal. Spellstutter Sprite, Patron Wizard, Wizard's Retort, Silumgar's Scorn.

My targeted creature removal is Crib Swap, Nameless Inversion, Dragon Tempest, Scourge of Valkas (though when he comes in play, he is usually PLAYER removal.....) and ofc Ayula, Queen Among Bears. Ofc there are always shenanigans with Hibernation Sliver or Wirewood Symbiote.

My targeted artifact/enchantment removal are Harmonic Sliver and Masked Vandal.

Ofc, almost everything is fetchable with Coveted Prize, Pyre of Heroes, Vedalken Aethermage, Skyshroud Poacher, Magda, Brazen Outlaw or Seahunter and can be recurred through Haakon, Stromgald Scourge.

My 2 mass removal options are Peer Pressure and Toxrill, the Corrosive. Yes, I still run the oppressive slug. My gf has made some amazing Slug tokens and to not use them is fighting against a power far greater than mine.
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Post by materpillar » 1 year ago

Fortified Beachhead HYYYYYYYYYYPE. Love making my manabase worse for flavor win cards.

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Post by Tribbles » 1 year ago

Jumpstart 2022 has some nice tribal things in it. I'm looking forward to testing one in particular:

Ashcoat of the Shadow Swarm. Rat tribal, pump and recursion is nice. If it had had a keyword or two or given Rats (a shame about "other rats" 😢 )a keyword when the first ability prof's that would have been nicer (if not a little pushed). I feel it slots into my Haakon build nicely though.
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Post by materpillar » 1 year ago

Tribbles wrote:
1 year ago
Jumpstart 2022 has some nice tribal things in it. I'm looking forward to testing one in particular:

Ashcoat of the Shadow Swarm. Rat tribal, pump and recursion is nice. If it had had a keyword or two or given Rats (a shame about "other rats" 😢 )a keyword when the first ability prof's that would have been nicer (if not a little pushed). I feel it slots into my Haakon build nicely though.
I'm kind of annoyed by all these tribal lords. They all feel so pushed. They do so much with so little downside because they're supposed to be for niche decks. I dislike cards that are just all upside all the time.

Anywho, I'll post my thoughts on why I'm playing all of them (slight exaggeration is slight) when they're fully spoiled.

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Post by Tribbles » 1 year ago

materpillar wrote:
1 year ago
I'm kind of annoyed by all these tribal lords. They all feel so pushed.
Haha, absolutely. This is some of the most pushed design I've seen in a while. I just saw Zask, Skittering Swarmlord and it's ludicrous. I'll sit back, watch them roll in, and await your opinions on them all :laughing:
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

I feel the opposite on them. I feel like most of them aren't pushed enough that I would consider them. Ashcoat of the Shadow Swarm for instance is not nearly enough pump effect and that pump doesn't happen until he attacks. You could just play Sliver Legion to get that effect immediately rather than wait until you can attack. Its true that he has some value in his mill trigger but I view it more as bad recovery that only matters if you don't have good draw anyways. He feels like he falls between pump and value but in a way that he isn't actually good at either one.

Zask, Skittering Swarmlord is slow being a five mana play. If you want immediate value from this you need to be playing it rather late with lots of mana avalible but even then if I have like 8+ mana (likely what I would want to do something immediately) there are just so many more impactful plays. I dislike Zask for a lot of the same reasons I hate mana double effects like Mana Reflection. They often result in a tap out play that doesn't do much of anything without having accumulated a lot of mana first. You could instead just play a nice mass rez effect and probably get more for your mana.

I have been accused to min maxing a bit hard though. My take though is that none of them have really stood out. I am not saying they are unplayable or anything I just don't think I would call them pushed.
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