The distasteful task of analyzing the Transformers

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

I hate Transformers.

I never watched the original series. I was vaguely aware that some of my friends liked it, though it had finished airing a year before I was born so it wasn't the biggest thing (that would probably have been Power Rangers). My parents were very strict about non-education television, and we never had cable, so besides seeing the toys at the store and in my friends' hands, I didn't have much awareness of them. When the Michael Bay movies came out, I did see the first one (I think a friend dragged me to it). It was about as dumb as I expected, and the series only got worse with age. My only interest has been to see just how poorly they'll be reviewed, so I can pat myself on the back for making the right "decision" as a child by not paying it much attention.

So I was not thrilled about Transformers being released as magic cards. I'm not happy about universes beyond in the best of times, but cartoon trucks that turn into robots feels even more excruciatingly stupid than the other things WotC has jumped into bed with. The fact that they eschew the "transform" keyword for "convert" in order to protect their copyright is just the icing on the cringe cake.

However, regrettably, I am a mechanics guy. Whenever I see a new card, especially a commander, the gears start turning in my head, trying to figure out how to use it, and if it's any good. And the Transformers cards are absurdly complicated on the whole. They each have two text boxes pretty much packed with mechanics. And they're actually...kind of interesting? If they weren't transformers, I'd definitely build some of them. Will I build some of them anyway? Not sure. But I'm tired of thinking about plane-related things, so I'm going to spend the next couple hours dissecting these abominable things. For science.

Prowl, Stoic Strategist // Prowl, Pursuit Vehicle

Immediately we can see just how absurdly complicated these things are. They each have two ways to cast them, conditions that flip them back and forth, and usually some kind of interplay between those modes. Prowl is a little vague on the interplay compared to some of the others, but the idea seems to be that you exile your own creatures with the bot side (I'll call them bot side and car side from here on), then recast them to flip to car side, and by doing so either two at a time, or with another creature from hand, flip him back to bot side. But that's just one possible way to use him. He can also exile tapped enemy creatures - which is easy enough to do in white. Or you can do one creature per turn (creating a token etc counts, so triggering on enemy turns is very doable) to just stack up counters. Or make 10 tokens at once to stack up a ton of counters - triggers will keep resolving even though he flips partway through.

So he's got a couple basic avenues I see for value - either focusing on the car side, and making him very big to kill with commander damage, and/or exiling your own etb value creatures, with a side dish of maybe exiling a tapped enemy creature if the opportunity presents itself (or you have your own way to tap it down). Any version you make probably requires some degree of creature production, otherwise he'll flip carside and be stuck (so the "exile opponents tapped creatures" probably can't be your primary strat). The ability to stack counters is okay, though other commanders can grow a lot faster and easier. You've got things like Ayula, Queen Among Bears who grow by 2, or Animar, Soul of Elements who gives massive other upside. And of course you're stuck in mono-white, which makes the enemy-creature-exiling thing somewhat uninteresting because creature control is one thing white already excels at. So overall this looks pretty mediocre - you need to care about making a wide-ish board, having a large fat commander, AND getting ETB value from easily-recastable creatures or having ways to tap enemy creatures. That's going to spread you pretty thin. And if you just want to focus on one aspect, there are much better commanders for the job.

Power: C-
Design: C

Ratchet, Field Medic // Ratchet, Rescue Racer

Okay, this one is a lot simpler, luckily. It's also a lot stronger. It comes down super early for 2/3 mana. This one caught my attention for the "this ability triggers only once each turn" clause, which made me double check that I understood the rules of transform/convert (if you weren't aware, you can't stack transforms - i.e. if an activated ability triggers transformation, if you activate it twice in a row before passing priority, the second resolution won't cause it to transform back to the original side - it checks that it hasn't transformed since the ability was activated/triggered). The reason this text is on here is because, without it, Ratchet would actually be kind of insane. Do any humans remember Orazca Relic? Yeah, this card is actually bananas here. From the car side, you sac the relic. Ratchet triggers, and flips. Relic activation resolves, you gain life and draw a card. Ratchet's bot side now triggers, allowing you to return an artifact with mana value 3 or less, putting relic back into play and flipping back to the car side. Without the "once per turn" clause, this thing is an infinite combo with orazca relic of all things.

There are other cards of similar, but slighly-less-impressive synergy, like Potion of Healing and Implement of Improvement. Any of these cards can net you +1 card and +2-3 life on every turn at the cost of 0-1 mana, which is not exactly bad.

There's also the possibility of returning bigger things by gaining a lot of life. White doesn't put you into Entomb unfortunately, but if you can gain 6 life you could return Wurmcoil Engine or whatever into play. Someone's surely building Mindslaver Ratchet out there. Repeatable lifegain isn't difficult to find, and flipping back to the bot side is pretty easy since anything you're looping will trigger it by doing what you're already doing. With sufficient lifegain, any artifact with a strong sacrifice effect can be used over and over. Scourglass is pretty gross. It could even finally be Mirror Universe's chance to shine. Swap totals, then immediate recur it as long as you ended up +6 life in the exchange is cool. What do you mean Axis of Mortality exists?

Whew, I guess that ended up being just as complicated as Prowl, though a lot more fruitful. Definitely some exploitation available here.

Power: B
Design: A-

Jetfire, Ingenious Scientist // Jetfire, Air Guardian

I've puzzled about this one for a while. Both sides have the same basic stats. The car side mostly just sucks. It's a mediocre flyer with the ability to get bigger once. The bot side is only slightly more interesting. There are ways to get tons of counters on artifacts, like Rise and Shine or Flux Channeler, but then I'm not sure what the next move is. You can launder the mana through activated abilities like Gemstone Array I guess, but it feels like a hell of a lot of complication when so many simpler infinite mana combos exist. Chromatic Orrery lets you flip him back and forth a million times for no purpose - so far as I can think, nothing within mono-blue will turn that into a useful infinite (don't think there's anything to increase the number of counters, decrease the cost of the ability, or increase the mana generated). I guess you can just jam artifact creatures and +1 counters and try to generate some churn, but it seems pretty haphazard.

Power: D
Design: D

Blitzwing, Cruel Tormentor // Blitzwing, Adaptive Assailant

This one is a lot simpler to analyze than some of the others. The bot side is the useful side, the car side sucks. It's just a mediocre 3/5 beater that you can use to speed up getting to the more useful bot side, by playing it on 4 and then hoping you get flying so you can connect. On the bot side, it's like a single-target Wound Reflection. And it only works on your turn. And if you can't get damage through, you get flipped to the garbage side. So you're probably just an extremely telegraphed combo build with Blood Tribute, Peer into the Abyss, etc. Big meh from me.

Power: D+
Design: D-

Starscream, Power Hungry // Starscream, Seeker Leader

Starscream is similar to Blitzwing insofar as there's basically a good side and a bad side. The car side is basically just a vehicle (i make-a da joke) for getting to the bot side, ableit in a somewhat more circuitous route. The first time you connect, you actively hurt yourself by giving away the monarch. But the second time, when you become the monarch, you get to flip to the good side and actually have a relevant ability. While you can set this up manually by having another card just give yourself the monarch, that seems like unnecessary complication. Starscream can get the monarchy pretty quickly on his own, as he's very evasive. He also gets it back pretty quickly if you lose it. Though you may want some added evasion in the late-game in case people have multiple flyers.

The payoff is...meh? It's kind of a reversed, single-target Sheoldred, the Apocalypse. That does open some avenues to win that Sheoldred doesn't have, by drawing a ton of cards to kill someone rather than just gain life, but drawing a ton of cards already kinda wins that game by just having a lot of cards that can do things. So starscream has a pretty big differential between power and design imo.

Power: D
Design: B

Slicer, Hired Muscle // Slicer, High-Speed Antagonist

Good, something easy to analyze. Slicer is completely insane. I have never heard of this guy in my life and he's easily the most powerful card of the bunch. Makes Optimus look like a walking trashcan. The car side is already pretty above-curve as a 3 power first striker. Not something I'd be likely to put into a deck, but when it's dealing commander damage it's not the worst. But the front just is just bananas. It's tempting to look at Slicer alongside something like Tahngarth, First Mate and blow him off, but Slicer fixes the weaknesses of previous "give away your commander to beat down on mutual enemies" designs by making it GOADED. Your opponents cannot opt out of the attack, nor can they send it your direction until it's 1v1. And it's freaking double strike.

Think about this. There's enough fast ramp that getting him out on turn 2 is a virtual certainty. On turn 2, he is almost guaranteed to have an opponent to hit. Even if someone has a blocker, it's almost certainly not a good blocker, and they're probably loathe to bin their mana dork. So he'll get through basically always. Now you pass him around the circle and everyone has to swing, and still no one will have good blocks. Which means a lot of the time, he's dealing a total of 21 commander damage on TURN TWO. And the only support he needed to do that was, like...Lotus Petal or Ancient Tomb or whatever. Even turn 1 is absolutely possible. People could be dead before they play their second land.

The only real downside is that he's not nearly as good at 1v1. You either need to find a way to neutralize him when donating him (chump blocks, Maze of Ith, etc - though anything you can do, your opponent can probably do too, unless it's Vow of Lightning), or put up with the meek car side. But on the plus side, your remaining opponent is probably pretty close to dead from commander damage already, so trading hits probably goes just fine. I can't imagine many decks that would have a chance to out-aggro this dude. And of course, god forbid you get any kind of equipment on him. A lot of equipment can even give you benefits while Slicer is controlled by other players - notable the entire sword cycle, all of which are completely disgusting here.

cEDH?

Power: A+
Design: What were you thinking?

Arcee, Sharpshooter // Arcee, Acrobatic Coupe

Back to more complicated matters. This one basically demands using the car side first to empower the bot side. The car side is...interesting. The fact that the transformation is required makes it pretty hard to stack up a lot of counters onto her using the triggered ability. You can respond by casting another spell to stack a couple up, but that's fairly small potatoes. Something like Dwarven Song can give a lot of counters at once, but you'd need to make a bunch of tokens or whatever to even make that work in the first place. The bot side is that exciting either - sniping enemy creatures is cool and all, but it's so much work to get the counters in the first place, removing a big chunk at once feels like kind of a waste. Converting Heaven's Gate into the world's jankiest Swords to Plowshares isn't exactly blowing me away. And it has the same issue as Prowl that building a wide army and a big commander at the same time is spreading yourself too thin.

Power: D
Design: C+ for effort

Blaster, Combat DJ // Blaster, Morale Booster

Man these things are so cringe. I can't even. This guy has a lot of text but I don't think it adds up to very much. To do much of anything on either side, you need other artifact creatures. On the increasingly-inaccurately-termed-car side, he can give one per turn haste for free, or add +1 counters for 1 mana each until he runs out of juice, then goes to his bot side. So far so mediocre. The bot side gives modular 1 to your other artifact creatures, which is...probably not that exciting? I mean he excludes tokens so you can't go too bananas. There's a few recurrable artifact creatures but I think they're all kinda expensive considering you only get one counter. Sure, you could boost that with some of green's token synergy, but then you could just play Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider and stop playing a cartoon boom box for a commander? And the condition to flip Blaster back to the car side seems basically useless - unless you're trying to save him from removal, I can't imagine wanting to do it on purpose.

Power: D-
Design: D+

Cyclonus, the Saboteur // Cyclonus, Cybertronian Fighter

Are we sure they aren't making these up? Cyclonus? Yeesh. Anyway, Cyclonus has a pretty clear objective, which is to get to the car side and connect. Getting there can be done the hard way, where you keep connecting with him and looting until he flips, or the easy way where you just put some equipment on him and save yourself some aggravation. The ultimate upshot if you do all this is that every other turn you have a Sphinx of the Second Sun. Which is a pretty strong effect for a control deck. You get a card, you get additional upkeep triggers, and you get to untap. But of course it's not terribly consistent since it requires a fair amount of work, and then it's usually only every other turn anyway. One funny wrinkle is copying the plane side with a Clone, which then can't transform back to the crappy bot side. I would think you're probably trying to get a bunch of sick upkeep trigger value, rather than just the untap and draw which don't quite feel worth the effort to me. Cute build, probably not super strong given the work involved, but I do like the mini-game.

EDIT: nevermind the clone thing doesn't work, boo.

Power: C
Design: B+

Flamewar, Brash Veteran // Flamewar, Streetwise Operative

Weird that they named a card after the BaaC discussion thread. This one clearly wants to flip back and forth pretty regularly - the car side can't do anything except block without transforming, and the bot side can't do anything without being empowered by the car side. So you almost certainly play it on the car side first, connect (should be easy), and flip. At that point it's probably not worth trading your hand for 2 cards, so you sac an artifact and attack again, still probably unblocked. At that point, you've got 5 cards, so you can probably think about cashing them in. After that, you're probably cashing in your hand every turn and drawing an increasing number of cards. The main conditions here are being able to sacrifice an artifact regularly, ideally every turn, and getting a creature with only menace as an evasion ability through combat. Equipment can satisfy both of those conditions, though of course you'd probably rather sacrifice something less expensive, so baubles and such also fit nicely. It's no Slicer, but it's an aggro commander that doesn't require too much and provides a lot of card draw. The biggest weakness is that it can get slowed down a lot by removal, but equipment can reduce that burden somewhat.

Power: B
Design: B

Goldbug, Humanity's Ally // Goldbug, Scrappy Scout

The bot side is not something I'd want to build around. The blowout potential if you're counting on it is pretty significant, and it's just not that impactful to begin with. A 2-drop that draws a card, on the other hand, is something I am interested in. So you're probably mostly looking to keep it on the car side as much as possible. 1-drop human into a 2-drop car is an okay curve, and 1-drop humans will make it easier to transform back. He can transform on any turn theoretically, though your turn is surely the easiest, especially when you're committed to small creatures. The ceiling isn't very high here - you need to commit a fair portion of your deck to enable him, and his absolute maximum ceiling for practical purposes is Archivist + Dolmen Gate.

Power: C-
Design: C

Megatron, Tyrant // Megatron, Destructive Force

Hey, I know him! He was in the moooviiieeee.

There's two ways to play this - either focusing on the bot side, or switching between the two. The bot side is basically just Neheb, the Eternal, except he costs 1 more, prevents opponents from casting spells in combat, adds black and white to your CI, and generates colorless instead of red. I don't put a lot of weight onto the combat casting restriction because I think it tends to be more of a draw for enemy removal than it is actually helpful - if they think you MIGHT attack them, they might fire off removal before you go to combat and remove the option, even if you didn't plan to attack them. Anyway, there are certainly powerful Neheb things that could be done with the addition of black tutors, even if the rest of the text is bad or useless.

The transforming build is more interesting to me - you have some big fat artifact in play, then you go to combat and sac it to blow something to hell and transform. Then second main, you get a bunch of mana that you can use to reload the cannon. Best example I've seen so far is Spine of Ish Sah - two explosions for the price of one. This build probably has a lower ceiling, but it's a lot more fun and the design is actually cool and flavorful. No offense Neheb, but I wouldn't mind never playing against you again.

Power: B+ (neheb version)
Design: B+ (flippy version)

Optimus Prime, Hero // Optimus Prime, Autobot Leader

Hey, I know him! He was (sounds of strangling)

For such a well-known character I expected a lot more. His bot side gives a +1/+1 every turn (so 4 per turn cycle in 4p), though you don't have great control over where it goes. The car side does basically the same thing, except you only get 2 per turn cycle and you have to attack to get them. The bot side is sorta hard to kill, though him dying still loses his counters (barring some specific cards), so playing creatureless and stacking them all onto him leaves him somewhat vulnerable. He's also pretty expensive considering he just poops out some counters. I guess I'm glad he's not busted but it's weird that the biggest name in the franchise is also one of the least interesting. You can build him as a creatureless control deck where he's a very mediocre finisher, he can be a mediocre piece of a counter synergy deck, or maybe you can try to take advantage of his resilience by playing a board-wipe deck, maybe with some man lands to make it easier to flip him back to his bot side? None of those things sound very exciting tbh.

Power: D
Design: D

Soundwave, Sonic Spy // Soundwave, Superior Champion

This was the card that kinda made me want to do this. I like the design in general, but in particular I really like the restriction that you can only cast instants/sorceries with EXACTLY the mv equal to the damage. That seemingly small distinction makes a huge difference in terms of how it plays. Without it, you'd just want to build massive token armies and slam them into people, then cast the biggest spell in their grave. But because you have to exactly nail it, there's a lot more thought into each attack and block. What mana values are hits? Which creatures can you afford to be blocked and still get a decent spell out of it? From your opponent, they've got to decide whether to prioritize lowering damage and preventing you from casting a spell. It really changes the whole play pattern of the card and I love it.

The back side is mostly just an enabler for the front side. Making deathtouch tokens just for casting a spell is kinda nice for blocking, but it's not a huge game considering you need to flip him back via combat, which is only going to happen once per turn at best. Deathtouch menace and flying hexproof are nice combos for hitting mid-cost spells, so he does power himself decently initially, but you'll almost certainly want other tokens later in the game. Flying tokens are nice, but not always reliable, especially when you want to hit a certain spell. Something like the fish tokens (Sleep with the Fishes etc) are a lot stronger, though of course they're not very common and too small to hit big spells, so throwing in equipment or anthems to boost the power of your tokens makes a lot of sense.

The biggest risk here is that it all might not do much of anything. Some decks don't run very many instants/sorceries, or run ones that aren't very useful for you, etc. So he requires a lot of work and the payoff is a bit of a mixed bag. You do get some free-ish tokens, though depending on the game state it might be difficult to make them reliably without getting stuck on the bot side. You could throw in some mill to get the train going, but then things are really starting to get complicated. Still, one Cut Your Losses and you've probably got some excellent selection, so at least a smattering of the good stuff is likely worth including, with black tutors to find it. A difficult build, but it does look extremely cool. I just wish it wasn't, y'know, a cartoon 90s casette recorder?

Power: B-
Design: A+

Ultra Magnus, Tactician // Ultra Magnus, Armored Carrier

Either of these sides would probably have been happier without the other. The car side is pretty meh on its own, though decent with board wipes and in the right colors for it. It's also pretty easy to transform, even if you maybe don't want to. The bot side is more specific, since it's basically garbage without running a bunch of big fat artifact creatures - hi Blightsteel Colossus. Obviously there's a pretty high ceiling here, though you're already paying 7 for him so he's not exactly pulling Kaalia of the Vast levels of cheat. Playing the car side first seems like the obvious choice, but if you're already glutted with fat artifact boys, ramp, and some board wipes, it might actually be hard to hit 4 extra power reliably. If you want to cheat things into play I'd probably just go with something cheaper, and if you want to tank board wipes there are more exciting options (Zurgo Helmsmasher for example), but if you really want to do both at once I guess he's got a niche.

Power: C
Design: D

Okay, I'm done. I guess I'll stop procrastinating and start reviewing for my test tomorrow at 9AM. Bleh.

Will dirk cave and pay $2 for a soundwave? Discuss amongst yourselves!
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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 1 year ago

Please don't cave. This universe is too far beyond. %$#% Transformers.
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Post by ukkuhrmakhai » 1 year ago

Well you've convinced me to build a slicer deck after I had managed to avoid seeing any of these cards until now. Thanks for that.

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Treamayne
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Post by Treamayne » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
I hate Transformers.

I never watched the original series. . .
Not sure. But I'm tired of thinking about plane-related things, so I'm going to spend the next couple hours dissecting these abominable things. For science.
Thanks for this, especially against your preferences.

UnBey is a special brand of hell. Unfortunately, Transformers getting some product was only a matter of time. After all:
Transformers is a media franchise produced by American toy company Hasbro and Japanese toy company Takara Tomy.
The Beyformers movies are not just bad on their own merit, but an insult to those of use that liked the original brand. Unlike @DirkGently I was 9 when Transformers debuted in 1984, and loved the original 1986 animated movie (so many great voice actors - Orson Wells, Leonard Nimoy, Robert Stack, etc. . . not to mention the controversy over the first swear words in an Animated film released to general theaters**).

However, I don't think nostalgia is enough to get me past my distaste for UnBey to like these cards, much less pay money for them.


** Note: The two words that caused only an edited release to VHS in the US (Canada had the unedited VHS - so I had to go to Ontario to get my home movie) were:
SPOILER
Show
Hide
Early scene when Unicron attacks the Cybertron Moons - Spike to Bumblebee:
Holy %$#%
Halfway through the movie when the Decepticons attack the Autobots on the Planet of Junk - Ultra Magnus trying to open the McGuffin:
Open, dammit open
V/R

Treamayne

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RxPhantom
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Post by RxPhantom » 1 year ago

I didn't realize there were that many of them. UB needs to get the hell out of my boosters.
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Cyberium
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Post by Cyberium » 1 year ago

Dirk: I'd love to see your deck ideas for Soundwave.

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Yatsufusa
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Post by Yatsufusa » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago

Slicer, Hired Muscle // Slicer, High-Speed Antagonist

Think about this. There's enough fast ramp that getting him out on turn 2 is a virtual certainty. On turn 2, he is almost guaranteed to have an opponent to hit. Even if someone has a blocker, it's almost certainly not a good blocker, and they're probably loathe to bin their mana dork. So he'll get through basically always. Now you pass him around the circle and everyone has to swing, and still no one will have good blocks. Which means a lot of the time, he's dealing a total of 21 commander damage on TURN TWO. And the only support he needed to do that was, like...Lotus Petal or Ancient Tomb or whatever. Even turn 1 is absolutely possible. People could be dead before they play their second land.
Magic has gotten more complicated (and my own lack of active playing certainly didn't help), but I'm pretty sure it doesn't work as well as you think. I'm quite certain that all of Slicer's abilities give agency to its controller, not its owner, meaning the decision to pass Slicer on to the third player falls on the second player, which means they can opt to convert Slicer to a vehicle they get to keep basically forever if they wanted to. Also Goad would apply to the player who chose to activate it, meaning the third player can't attack the second, and the fourth can't attack the third, so if they decided to, they could deal 12 Commander damage to you instead and the fourth player would convert/keep it as a vehicle.
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Post by Ink-Treader » 1 year ago

Yatsufusa wrote:
1 year ago
DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago

Slicer, Hired Muscle // Slicer, High-Speed Antagonist

Think about this. There's enough fast ramp that getting him out on turn 2 is a virtual certainty. On turn 2, he is almost guaranteed to have an opponent to hit. Even if someone has a blocker, it's almost certainly not a good blocker, and they're probably loathe to bin their mana dork. So he'll get through basically always. Now you pass him around the circle and everyone has to swing, and still no one will have good blocks. Which means a lot of the time, he's dealing a total of 21 commander damage on TURN TWO. And the only support he needed to do that was, like...Lotus Petal or Ancient Tomb or whatever. Even turn 1 is absolutely possible. People could be dead before they play their second land.
Magic has gotten more complicated (and my own lack of active playing certainly didn't help), but I'm pretty sure it doesn't work as well as you think. I'm quite certain that all of Slicer's abilities give agency to its controller, not its owner, meaning the decision to pass Slicer on to the third player falls on the second player, which means they can opt to convert Slicer to a vehicle they get to keep basically forever if they wanted to. Also Goad would apply to the player who chose to activate it, meaning the third player can't attack the second, and the fourth can't attack the third, so if they decided to, they could deal 12 Commander damage to you instead and the fourth player would convert/keep it as a vehicle.
Nah, they only get to control Slicer until end of turn. You get it back in time for the next opponent's upkeep.

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

@Cyberium I may try it, though I think it's the sort of deck that's likely more fun to play than it is to build. It's so dependent on what your opponents have that it's hard to have any idea how it will perform without some testing.

I mean, all of these cards are pretty damn cheap, they were available in set boosters, etc. The shattered glass art is expensive but it looks like crap anyway lmao. So idk. I'm feeling kinda cavey right now. Most likely on just 5 - Soundwave, Slicer, Flamewar, Megatron, and Ratchet. I'd prefer to trade than buy out of principle, but honestly it's like a combined $5 worth of cards.

@Yatsufusa "until end of turn" effects wear off during the cleanup step. You'll get it back before their turn is over, and then it will trigger again on the next turn.

It's ridiculous.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 year ago

toctheyounger wrote:
1 year ago
Please don't cave. This universe is too far beyond. %$#% Transformers.
Don't listen to him, Dirk! Cave! Cave! Cave! Everyone knows the hottest items this holiday season are 30 year old cassette decks and the ritualistic sacrifice of one's tightly held convictions.
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Post by toctheyounger » 1 year ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 year ago
toctheyounger wrote:
1 year ago
Please don't cave. This universe is too far beyond. %$#% Transformers.
Don't listen to him, Dirk! Cave! Cave! Cave! Everyone knows the hottest items this holiday season are 30 year old cassette decks and the ritualistic sacrifice of one's tightly held convictions.
I'm just saying, hold out for the Ronald McDonald, Grimace and Hamburglar UB release.

Fwiw I don't relate to Transformers quite evidently but no shade to anyone who does. I just don't see a massive connection between the two IPs. At least, one that doesn't stem from corporate ties anyway. I could be wrong, but if I wasn't massively into Warhammer (and I wasn't*) like %$#% am I interested in robots that turn into other %$#%.

At any rate, if Transformers magic cards are your jam, go off queen. They're just very emphatically not for me.

*side note - I got into the lore of Warhammer after it's release (mostly through PleasantKenobi doing a couple vids) and it's actually pretty rad.
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Post by Yatsufusa » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
@Yatsufusa "until end of turn" effects wear off during the cleanup step. You'll get it back before their turn is over, and then it will trigger again on the next turn.
Guess who didn't manage to catch EOT sandwiched between all that text. That's what I get for skimming through texts nowadays in an era of overwhelming number of new cards with many texts, I guess (I even skipped subsets like this so I don't have to review so much).
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

@toctheyounger @TheAmericanSpirit

Okay angel and devil on my shoulders:

Pluses:
-They're available in normal-ish boosters (and I'm glad they're not in draft boosters)
-They're not technically an outside IP, so they're closer to the DnD sets
-The designs are cool and (except for slicer) not overpowered (and they probably just goofed with slicer because they suck at commander balance)
-They're really cheap in the regular printings (and the shattered glass frame and art look like absolute ass anyway)
-The cartoon show afaik isn't really a major commercial entity anymore, and many of them don't appear or don't have significant roles in the newer movies (I looked it up, Slicer doesn't appear at all, not even in a cameo, lmao. Literally who, coming to a cEDH table near you!)
-I don't really mind monetarily supporting set booster cracking, compared to something like 40K that only supports 40K.

Cons:
-Transformers are dumb
-While within Hasbro, they're not within WotC and are visually clearly not part of MtG whereas DnD is generally only distinguishable by fans
-It's a slippery slope to using other UB cards
-Supporting these set boosters specifically will show wotc that people want UB cards

So right now I'm leaning towards just doing it, with those main 5 that are actually interesting. If I manage to trade for the other ones, okay, but I'm not trying to 100% them like I do for normal sets.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by duducrash » 1 year ago

I for one like the idea of blocking Megatron, Tyrant // Megatron, Destructive Force with Luminous Broodmoth Moothra and a Godzilla

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Post by RxPhantom » 1 year ago

duducrash wrote:
1 year ago
I for one like the idea of blocking Megatron, Tyrant // Megatron, Destructive Force with Luminous Broodmoth Moothra and a Godzilla
Gosh, I really wish that this wasn't a typo and that there is some gigantic kaiju cow out there named Moothra.
Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 2/18/22 (Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty)

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 year ago

@DirkGently @toctheyounger Evil prevails again! Ha ha!

I will admit my bias though: as a child, I was big into giant robots. Literally anything with giant robots, or even just robots, was up my alley. Transformers, Gundam, Cyborg 009, The Iron Giant, Whatever Happened to Robot Jones?, Megas XLR, you name it and I probably ate that %$#% up as a kid. So yeah, while my adult self recognizes the existential terror of UB for MtG as a long term source of recreation, my inner child is freaking stoked and wants to spread the joy around.

Do it! Cave!
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(Except when DirkGently makes them!)

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Post by toctheyounger » 1 year ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 year ago
@DirkGently @toctheyounger Evil prevails again! Ha ha!

I will admit my bias though: as a child, I was big into giant robots. Literally anything with giant robots, or even just robots, was up my alley. Transformers, Gundam, Cyborg 009, The Iron Giant, Whatever Happened to Robot Jones?, Megas XLR, you name it and I probably ate that %$#% up as a kid. So yeah, while my adult self recognizes the existential terror of UB for MtG as a long term source of recreation, my inner child is freaking stoked and wants to spread the joy around.

Do it! Cave!
To retort, and be the good boy, I will refrain (predominantly because I already spend way too much on this hobby and have no definite place these would fit and they don't fit my head canon) from purchasing these in any way.

Honestly though, wait for this time next year to watch me cave to LoTR cards. I will lap that %$#% up like a kitten laps up a saucer of cream. It just resonates with me where this IP doesn't, at all.
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Post by duducrash » 1 year ago

RxPhantom wrote:
1 year ago
duducrash wrote:
1 year ago
I for one like the idea of blocking Megatron, Tyrant // Megatron, Destructive Force with Luminous Broodmoth Moothra and a Godzilla
Gosh, I really wish that this wasn't a typo and that there is some gigantic kaiju cow out there named Moothra.
Coming in the Heesheys x Godzilla x Hasbro crossover


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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Alright, I'm working on a slicer deck. Mostly because I have an amazing title for it.

Btw in case anyone's wondering, I did pass my test. Four done, two to go for my CPL! (plus hour requirements, KDRs, and the flight test itself, but those are tomorrow Dirk's problems)

@TheGildedGoose I'm not sure if you're just taking the piss but I guess thank you? lol
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by TheGildedGoose » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
@TheGildedGoose I'm not sure if you're just taking the piss but I guess thank you? lol

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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 1 year ago

I like the idea of living metal for vehicles, not something I want as default but I hope we seen it used outside of just the transformers cards.
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Post by Treamayne » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
I did pass my test. Four done, two to go for my CPL! (plus hour requirements, KDRs, and the flight test itself, but those are tomorrow Dirk's problems)
Congratulations - What type rating(s)? I'm not a pilot myself, but I have aircrew time on Single Engine Prop, Multi-Engine Prop, Tail Wheel, and Jets.
TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 year ago
I was big into giant robots. Literally anything with giant robots, or even just robots, was up my alley. Transformers, Gundam, Cyborg 009, The Iron Giant, Whatever Happened to Robot Jones?, Megas XLR, you name it
As a kid I was also a huge fan of Voltron I, II, and III (Space, Gladiator, and Lion; respectively), but I never really got into the Gundam thing. . .
V/R

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Post by Serenade » 1 year ago

I grew up a Transformers fan. Still love 'em. These cards, though…so many words, using screenshots from the show instead of new art…feels very bad. Godzilla didn't have this.

However, my buddy and I agreed to make at least one new deck every set using a new legend. I chose Flamewar and have enjoyed it so far. I need to pick a definite direction (first cut has been all over the place), but her jumble of words fits all the things I want to do with a Rakdos deck (that Obosh and Juri never consistently did for me). We'll see.
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