The distasteful task of analyzing the Transformers

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TheAmericanSpirit
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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 year ago

@Treamayne oh man, Gundam is fun! Think soap opera with giant robot fights to break up the tension. It's actually pretty good if you can just keep that disbelief suspended
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Post by Hermes_ » 1 year ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 year ago
@Treamayne oh man, Gundam is fun! Think soap opera with giant robot fights to break up the tension. It's actually pretty good if you can just keep that disbelief suspended
"Why did you leave for him, Gloria?"

"He has a job and he's the REAL father of the child I said was yours!"

*fight between giant robots ensures *
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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 year ago

Hermes_ wrote:
1 year ago
TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 year ago
@Treamayne oh man, Gundam is fun! Think soap opera with giant robot fights to break up the tension. It's actually pretty good if you can just keep that disbelief suspended
"Why did you leave for him, Gloria?"

"He has a job and he's the REAL father of the child I said was yours!"

*fight between giant robots ensures *
%$#% man, I know you're kidding but I'd probably watch this too. Gloria probably has a sweet mech suit.
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Post by ukkuhrmakhai » 1 year ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 year ago
@Treamayne oh man, Gundam is fun! Think soap opera with giant robot fights to break up the tension. It's actually pretty good if you can just keep that disbelief suspended
I need to watch more Gundam. The soap opera + X (Robots, Magic, Iron Thrones) is just so addictive. I've always hoped a gatewatch series would be something like this. Jace and Liliana/Chandra and Nissa being dramatic at each other + seeing a bunch of planes + magic duels.

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 year ago

ukkuhrmakhai wrote:
1 year ago
TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 year ago
@Treamayne oh man, Gundam is fun! Think soap opera with giant robot fights to break up the tension. It's actually pretty good if you can just keep that disbelief suspended
I need to watch more Gundam. The soap opera + X (Robots, Magic, Iron Thrones) is just so addictive. I've always hoped a gatewatch series would be something like this. Jace and Liliana/Chandra and Nissa being dramatic at each other + seeing a bunch of planes + magic duels.
This guy gets it! Soap Opera + X is one of the greatest storytelling formulas of all time and giant robots are an excellent X factor.

Can't say I've ever wanted to see an mtg tv show, but if they can make it as over the top as yugioh's show, I'll bite.
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Post by Venedrex » 1 year ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 year ago
ukkuhrmakhai wrote:
1 year ago
TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 year ago
@Treamayne oh man, Gundam is fun! Think soap opera with giant robot fights to break up the tension. It's actually pretty good if you can just keep that disbelief suspended
I need to watch more Gundam. The soap opera + X (Robots, Magic, Iron Thrones) is just so addictive. I've always hoped a gatewatch series would be something like this. Jace and Liliana/Chandra and Nissa being dramatic at each other + seeing a bunch of planes + magic duels.
This guy gets it! Soap Opera + X is one of the greatest storytelling formulas of all time and giant robots are an excellent X factor.

Can't say I've ever wanted to see an mtg tv show, but if they can make it as over the top as yugioh's show, I'll bite.
Make it like Arcane, and I'll bite. (Coming from a Dota player no less)
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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 year ago

Venedrex wrote:
1 year ago
TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 year ago
ukkuhrmakhai wrote:
1 year ago


I need to watch more Gundam. The soap opera + X (Robots, Magic, Iron Thrones) is just so addictive. I've always hoped a gatewatch series would be something like this. Jace and Liliana/Chandra and Nissa being dramatic at each other + seeing a bunch of planes + magic duels.
This guy gets it! Soap Opera + X is one of the greatest storytelling formulas of all time and giant robots are an excellent X factor.

Can't say I've ever wanted to see an mtg tv show, but if they can make it as over the top as yugioh's show, I'll bite.
Make it like Arcane, and I'll bite. (Coming from a Dota player no less)
I haven't seen Arcane. League of Legends just ain't my bag, I'm clearly a Giant Robot man. But I'll take your word for it that it is something to which a prospective MTG show should aspire to be like! And if it is, then by God I shall watch it.
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Post by TheGildedGoose » 1 year ago

Embarrassing fun fact: my former handle on the WotC forum back in the day was based on Gundam Wing fan fiction I had written in 7th grade.

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Venedrex
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Post by Venedrex » 1 year ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 year ago
Venedrex wrote:
1 year ago
TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 year ago


This guy gets it! Soap Opera + X is one of the greatest storytelling formulas of all time and giant robots are an excellent X factor.

Can't say I've ever wanted to see an mtg tv show, but if they can make it as over the top as yugioh's show, I'll bite.
Make it like Arcane, and I'll bite. (Coming from a Dota player no less)
I haven't seen Arcane. League of Legends just ain't my bag, I'm clearly a Giant Robot man. But I'll take your word for it that it is something to which a prospective MTG show should aspire to be like! And if it is, then by God I shall watch it.
Yeah, I don't like LoL either, but the effort put into the show really shines through. You can tell there's an actual plot and really amazing graphics.

As far as Transformers goes, my personal favorite is Transformers Prime. 10/10 would recommend.

My all time favorite animated show? Gotta be Avatar the Last Airbender. You can't beat it.

I just have a strong suspicion that the MTG show is going to end up like the War of the Spark novel. "AYE GIRL", grinning his leonin grin something something.
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Post by toctheyounger » 1 year ago

Venedrex wrote:
1 year ago
My all time favorite animated show? Gotta be Avatar the Last Airbender. You can't beat it.
Seconded. It truly is pretty amazing. Theres so little filler in that show over 4 seasons and there's something in it for every age.

Thinking on it it would actually make a pretty good universe beyond. It meshes better with magic than transformers does, to me. Not a wish perse, just an observation.
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Post by onering » 1 year ago

Treamayne wrote:
1 year ago
DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
I hate Transformers.

I never watched the original series. . .
Not sure. But I'm tired of thinking about plane-related things, so I'm going to spend the next couple hours dissecting these abominable things. For science.
Thanks for this, especially against your preferences.

UnBey is a special brand of hell. Unfortunately, Transformers getting some product was only a matter of time. After all:
Transformers is a media franchise produced by American toy company Hasbro and Japanese toy company Takara Tomy.
The Beyformers movies are not just bad on their own merit, but an insult to those of use that liked the original brand. Unlike @DirkGently I was 9 when Transformers debuted in 1984, and loved the original 1986 animated movie (so many great voice actors - Orson Wells, Leonard Nimoy, Robert Stack, etc. . . not to mention the controversy over the first swear words in an Animated film released to general theaters**).

However, I don't think nostalgia is enough to get me past my distaste for UnBey to like these cards, much less pay money for them.


** Note: The two words that caused only an edited release to VHS in the US (Canada had the unedited VHS - so I had to go to Ontario to get my home movie) were:
SPOILER
Show
Hide
Early scene when Unicron attacks the Cybertron Moons - Spike to Bumblebee:
Holy %$#%
Halfway through the movie when the Decepticons attack the Autobots on the Planet of Junk - Ultra Magnus trying to open the McGuffin:
Open, dammit open
I had a VHS in the US and "Open, dammit, open!" was definitely in it. I can still hear it in Robert Stack's slightly digitized voice.


Unless I somehow had the Canadian version, but I think 8 year old me would have remembered Bumblebee saying holy %$#%.

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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

@TheAmericanSpirit I have absolutely zero interest in ever playing LoL and I went in planning to hate it, but Arcane is legitimately one of the best shows I've ever seen. It's not nearly as all-ages as AtlA but personally (heresy incoming) I think Arcane is a better show. The only other animated shows I can think of that are in the same league for me are Bojack Horseman and Rick and Morty, and Arcane is a lot tighter than both in terms of telling a coherent story. It's really really good. You should watch it.
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Post by Hermes_ » 1 year ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 year ago
Hermes_ wrote:
1 year ago
TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 year ago
@Treamayne oh man, Gundam is fun! Think soap opera with giant robot fights to break up the tension. It's actually pretty good if you can just keep that disbelief suspended
"Why did you leave for him, Gloria?"

"He has a job and he's the REAL father of the child I said was yours!"

*fight between giant robots ensures *
%$#% man, I know you're kidding but I'd probably watch this too. Gloria probably has a sweet mech suit.
*picture it if you will, two giant mechs standing across from one another in deep space*

"Mom said you were my real father."
"You mean from that one night of shore leave years ago?"
"She said she tried to tell you about me."
"But I can't be your father! It had to have been my evil twin!" *dun dun dun*

or this with dialogue with giant mechs
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Post by Treamayne » 1 year ago

onering wrote:
1 year ago
I had a VHS in the US and "Open, dammit, open!" was definitely in it. I can still hear it in Robert Stack's slightly digitized voice.

Unless I somehow had the Canadian version, but I think 8 year old me would have remembered Bumblebee Spike saying holy %$#%.
Do you know what year your VHS was? To the best of my recollection, the "Parental brujahjah" over "swearing in a theatrical animated movie" wore off as cultural acceptance of swearing in movies and TV changed. PG-13 came along (allowing certain words and phrases) and Prime Time TV started also allowing certain words. IIRC, Transformers: the Movie came out in 1986. The 1986/87 VHS release had both sections cut. I think the re-release (91/92?) restored the Robert Stack portion and the 1999 version restored both (or maybe just the Robert Stack portion); but it might be that the Spike swear wasn't restored until the DVD.

One way to discern the difference for the Canadian Release is that the American VHS was in a cardboard slipbox, and the Canadian VHS was a plastic clamshell.
TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 year ago
Treamayne wrote:
1 year ago
As a kid I was also a huge fan of Voltron I, II, and III (Space, Gladiator, and Lion; respectively), but I never really got into the Gundam thing. . .
@Treamayne oh man, Gundam is fun! Think soap opera with giant robot fights to break up the tension. It's actually pretty good if you can just keep that disbelief suspended
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I never liked Gundam - just that as a kid in the Detroit area, there wasn't much exposure for it (no shows on TV, I don't recall any toys or gamed for it), so I never really explored those series while growing up. The US Manga craze didn't really start until mid-90s, I think and most Manga that were imported (like Voltron and Tranzor Z) weren't marketed as Manga Imports.

I do recall some Robotech things going on in the 80s, but don;t recall the show ever being available in my area during that time. . .
V/R

Treamayne

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Post by onering » 1 year ago

I think it was probably the early 90s release.

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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

The deed is done.
66B6D15D-9E8D-4A71-99C2-304D824D1CBB.jpeg
I feel like I need a shower.

Real talk - I will feel somewhat less disgusted with myself if I were to have these altered. What would be a good alter for these fellas?
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Post by Treamayne » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
I will feel somewhat less disgusted with myself if I were to have these altered. What would be a good alter for these fellas?
Are you wanting to retain the Transformers Imagery, use different Robot, replace the tech theme(s) altogether? If the latter, replace with traditional fantasy theme or just different IP (or a mix)?
V/R

Treamayne

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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

@Treamayne definitely looking to remove the transformers imagery. Beyond that I'm open to ideas. Ideally it would have some connection to the card - something that fits with the name, the mechanics, types, etc - really any justification could work. I'm fine with any other pop culture stuff - like maybe The Iron Giant would be fun.

Let's see, looking up other famous robots...Bender maybe...obviously Star Wars options though idk that they'd fit...Terminator...Ooh, I like Gerty from Moon (although it is Kevin Spacey so maybe that's in bad taste)...Wall-E is okay design-wise although I'm kinda meh on the movie overall...oh %$#%$#%, marvin from hitchhiker's is definitely a good one. Bishop from Alien would also be cool as a spy, kinda fits well for Soundwave maybe.

Doesn't have to be a robot, just the most obvious theme in terms of maintaining some theme from the original (and it helps the type line make sense).

edit: oh, that robot from kotor was a good time. HK-47 I think.

edit: more good options - ava from ex machina, various robots from the matrix, TARS from interstellar, omnidroids from the incredibles, baymax from big hero 6, lots of options from westworld ofc although they're kinda boring "robots", blade runner has kinda the same problem,

Oh wait %$#% I think I maybe solved it - there's no way I'm not doing a tom servo and crow version. For sure that is happening.

edit: deep cut, but another good one is the robot from Zima Blue (LDaR episode). And fits really well as a transformer... :cry:
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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
The deed is done.

66B6D15D-9E8D-4A71-99C2-304D824D1CBB.jpeg

I feel like I need a shower.

Real talk - I will feel somewhat less disgusted with myself if I were to have these altered. What would be a good alter for these fellas?
@toctheyounger Huzzah! Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair! Lol
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Post by Treamayne » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
definitely looking to remove the transformers imagery. Beyond that I'm open to ideas.
Well, I was thinking Slicer could be Dexter (seems connected).

Possibly connect through voices as well. E.g. Megatron became Galvatron (voiced by Leonard Nimoy) so you could connect to any Nimoysian reference. Both Megatron and Soundwave were voiced by Frank Welker who has a host of other IPs you can pull from (Raiders of the Lost Ark, Jinx from Space Camp, Gremlins, etc.) Ditto Optimus Prime (Peter Cullen).

Then, of course, you can reverse IP back to Magic (the opposite of Godzilla/Titanoth Rex) and pick an appropriate MtG legend for the colors or abilities. Example:
Optimus as a Jeskai version of Dromoka, the Eternal (based on Bolster) or a Attack Trigger version of Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest . . .

Something like that.
V/R

Treamayne

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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

@TheAmericanSpirit And Jesus wept, for there were no more worlds to conquer.

@Treamayne The voice actor idea is interesting but I'm not sure I have the right connections. Ideally I'd like something that feels somewhat personal to me. I could have a dig around though and see if I notice anything.

As far as magic IPs, I think if I were trying to find the most mechanically connected cards for each:

megatron is either Bosh, Iron Golem for flinging artifacts, or Neheb, the Eternal for the front side.
soundwave is probably Wrexial, the Risen Deep.
Slicer is probably Tahngarth, First Mate - Jon Irenicus, Shattered One is kinda close but way off on colors, and doesn't give himself away.
Flamewar is Amber Gristle O'Maul, or if that's also considered UB then I guess Subira, Tulzidi Caravanner.
Ratchet has a lot of reasonable options: Hanna, Ship's Navigator , Glissa, the Traitor, Loran, Disciple of History, Sharuum the Hegemon, Tocasia, Dig Site Mentor, Tameshi, Reality Architect. Hanna's probably my vote but any of them are reasonable really.

I don't actually care about optimus as I don't intend to ever build him - I just happened to acquire him as a product of circumstance. The others I actually went to some trouble to get as I think they look interesting to build.
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Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Treamayne
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Post by Treamayne » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
As far as magic IPs, I think if I were trying to find the most mechanically connected cards for each:
Thouse sound about right. I don;t know if you do your own Alters or not (I know two I have worked with); but if they have the chops you may even ask them to design an "artifact version" of the non-Artifact Generals.

e. g. an Inkwell treated Wrexial alter would be sweet. . .
DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
The voice actor idea is interesting but I'm not sure I have the right connections
I linked their wikipedia credits page so you could do so.
V/R

Treamayne

ukkuhrmakhai
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Post by ukkuhrmakhai » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
@TheAmericanSpirit And Jesus wept, for there were no more worlds to conquer.

@Treamayne The voice actor idea is interesting but I'm not sure I have the right connections. Ideally I'd like something that feels somewhat personal to me. I could have a dig around though and see if I notice anything.

As far as magic IPs, I think if I were trying to find the most mechanically connected cards for each:

megatron is either Bosh, Iron Golem for flinging artifacts, or Neheb, the Eternal for the front side.
soundwave is probably Wrexial, the Risen Deep.
Slicer is probably Tahngarth, First Mate - Jon Irenicus, Shattered One is kinda close but way off on colors, and doesn't give himself away.
Flamewar is Amber Gristle O'Maul, or if that's also considered UB then I guess Subira, Tulzidi Caravanner.
Ratchet has a lot of reasonable options: Hanna, Ship's Navigator , Glissa, the Traitor, Loran, Disciple of History, Sharuum the Hegemon, Tocasia, Dig Site Mentor, Tameshi, Reality Architect. Hanna's probably my vote but any of them are reasonable really.

I don't actually care about optimus as I don't intend to ever build him - I just happened to acquire him as a product of circumstance. The others I actually went to some trouble to get as I think they look interesting to build.
I haven't bought any of the transformers yet but I do know if I do I will need to get alters done if I want to not feel like I need a shower after I play them.

Since the backside is a vehicle even if it is living metal, I was thinking of doing vehicles/ships and their captains or famous mounts and their riders.

Optimus Prime, Hero // Optimus Prime, Autobot Leader : Gerrard + Weatherlight
Soundwave, Sonic Spy // Soundwave, Superior Captain : Captain N'ghathrod + His ship, the scavenger
Slicer, Hired Muscle // Slicer, High-Speed Antagonist : Greven + Predator

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Here's my current idea for the Soundwave, Sonic Spy // Soundwave, Superior Captain alter.

Soundwave, Sonic Spy:
image.png
Soundwave, Superior Captain:
image.png
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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RxPhantom
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Post by RxPhantom » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
Here's my current idea for the Soundwave, Sonic Spy // Soundwave, Superior Captain alter.

Soundwave, Sonic Spy:
image.png

Soundwave, Superior Captain:
image.png
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