The Community Deck Build Project v5.0

User avatar
darrenhabib
Posts: 1812
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by darrenhabib » 1 year ago

Things are getting a little heated, sooo just to quell the flames .. a bit, there is angle where both Maskwood Nexus/Conspiracy combined with Urza's Incubator/Defiler of Flesh/Defiler of Instinct and a creature token maker like Pawn of Ulamog will give yourself a recursive engine casting Syrix, Carrier of the Flame.
You'd be losing 4 life each time with the Defilers so with Exquisite Blood you could ping players for 4 damage (Syrix+Defiler of Instinct) to negate the life loss.
Of course you could just spend br each players turn without the Defilers which is perfectly reasonable.

I apologize if my nays and reasons come off as negative. The reason for the thread is to have fun, so there are no bad suggestions, everything can be good in the right context. I'll be more mindful of that.

User avatar
Dunadain
I like turtles
Posts: 1326
Joined: 3 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: 'Murica

Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

darrenhabib wrote:
1 year ago
How many times does one expect to cast a commander in any game? Twice, maybe three times?
Maskwood Nexus and Conspiracy are over-the-top ideas for recasting the commander. They offer no other synergy. They might as well just be Thran Dynamo and Gilded Lotus to help recast Syrix, Carrier of the Flame from the command zone instead.
If you're concerned about putting it in the yard (which you should have a plan already) rather than command zone, then there is always Witch's Cottage which you can search up any time with fetchlands for Swamp.

The triggering damage each turn is the more important ability to form an engine around, and so I think personally out of the Phoenix list my order is wildly different. And by nature would cover the recasting from graveyard.
But as we are only supposed to do one nominee per day I'm going to be a good boy and wait before I give suggestions :P

I would nay Graveshifter, Maskwood Nexus, Conspiracy, Ghost Lantern // Bind Spirit, Tortured Existence, Helm of the Host, Memorial to Folly, Tomb Fortress.
Witch's Cottage is the first thing I thought of, but we can't run Fetchlands because of budget restraints.

My idea was with enough recursion options you can run a hefty amount of board wipes and make sure you get value from the first ability. But I think you're right, I suggested far too many.

Maskwood Nexus and Conspiracy do have some additional utility in allowing you to use your biggest creature with the commander's first ability, and are a bit more resilient to removal than most of the other options. But you're probably right.

I was just brainstorming, no need to actually vote, but that seems like a reasonable list.

Jemolk wrote:
1 year ago
Dunadain wrote:
1 year ago
(Sorry @Jemolk, but Urza's Incubator seems awful),
I'm sorry, what? No, seriously, what? Not thinking it's a fit for this deck because you don't want to go the tribal route is one thing, but "seems awful?" Have you ever played the card? There's a reason that thing is as expensive as it is. It's over the top powerful in any expensive tribe. It deserves a spot in every single dragon tribal deck ever, for example. Seriously, the card is gas. If there's any one card that can make phoenix tribal not just functional, but actually good, it's Urza's Incubator. All those 6-drop phoenixes that return to your hand when they die are a bit overcosted at 6, but at 4, they're kind of insane, especially with Syrix, who will now only cost .

I take issue with a lot of the rest of your post, too -- while Immortal Phoenix, Shivan Phoenix, and Firestorm Phoenix are probably overcosted by a bit, in what world are they unplayable? Especially this early in the process -- but that's the biggest one by far. You're free to disagree with me on deckbuilding styles, and to not like to do things how I like to do them, but saying possibly the single best generic tribal enabler ever printed (yes it compares favorably with Kindred Discovery, that's replaceable, Incubator isn't) "seems awful" really set me off. You don't have to like tribal decks, or janky tribes (or an extreme focus on inevitability to the serious detriment of the early game, which is a large part of why phoenix tribal in specific is so appealing to me), but there's no call for slandering Urza's Incubator.
Didn't expect such a heated response. I meant Urza's Incubator seems bad in a phoenix deck where they're are so few good phoenix cards. I'm well aware of the power of the cards in other tribal decks. Touchy subject.

Of course every card is technically playable (unless it's banned I guess). It was hyperbole. Are you really willing to spend six magna a turn for your Brood of Cockroaches? Because I sure ain't. I will say if your planning on running all or most the phoenixes I just listed, then Urza's Incubator begins to look a lot more appealing, just not sure if that's a very viable way of building the deck.





Idk guys, seemed like everyone lacked direction for the deck so I just brainstormed a couple ideas to see what people thought. Didn't mean to ruffle feathers (haha, get it? Cause we are talking about phoenixes?).
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.

Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Emiel, The Blessed, Phelddagriff
Other: Ruhan, Zask, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada

Help me complete my JumpStart Cube!

User avatar
3drinks
Kaalia's Personal Liaison
Posts: 4831
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Ruined City of Drannith, Ikoria

Post by 3drinks » 1 year ago

Boy...this escalated quickly. :P Happy to see a strong builder like darren here to help keep things on track. A few confirmations here, including me offering the final yay to confirm basilisk collar, and final nays to Underdog and Everquil. The collar is super choice and merits at least considering Urza's Saga (with skullclamp as well, since we're killing our stuff enough) to be a second copy of collar. Super choice pick. Having used Underdog, it is really not as good as you think it will be, it's never going to be as good as you want it to be, and if I'm ever in a position where paying four for a 3/2 one time is the correct play, I'm clearly in a very bad position for the game. Everquil is just a gimmick. It's cute thematically but it really isn't very good overall. Plus, mutate is confusing AF and needs more reminder text than banding for all the cornercase scenarios. That's enough for me to nay it on gp, but it's just not strong enough as a whole. I'm going to nay the changeling because I'm not in the business of playing three mana 1/3s. Not when I can just put deathtouch on my commander to do the thing.

For today's card, I'm nominating Desecrated Tomb, since we want creatures leaving the yard anyway, let's get some value out of it.

Attrition yay - 5 nay - 0
Skyfire Phoenix yay - 4 nay - 0
Basilisk Collar yay - 3 nay - 0

Sinister Concoction yay - 2 nay - 4
Tenacious Underdog yay - 1 nay - 3
Everquill Phoenix yay - 0 nay - 3

Venomous Changeling yay - 1 nay - 1
Desecrated Tomb yay - 0 nay - 0

Modern
R{R/W} 87guide Burn
Commander
WRKellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
RTorbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
WBRKaalia HQ

User avatar
Dunadain
I like turtles
Posts: 1326
Joined: 3 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: 'Murica

Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

I'm going to withhold on Desecrated Tomb it looks so cool, but every day I put it in I've been disappointed with it. I think it depends on just how hard we go in on this effect.

Today I'll nominate Black Market Connections he draws cards, it ramps, and it makes a phoenix if we need to get our commander back.
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.

Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Emiel, The Blessed, Phelddagriff
Other: Ruhan, Zask, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada

Help me complete my JumpStart Cube!

User avatar
3drinks
Kaalia's Personal Liaison
Posts: 4831
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Ruined City of Drannith, Ikoria

Post by 3drinks » 1 year ago

Dunadain wrote:
1 year ago
Witch's Cottage is the first thing I thought of, but we can't run Fetchlands because of budget restraints.
FWIW, I did put the MIR fetchlands in the deck since they can find the type duals that aren't super pricey, so this witch's cottage theorem does have some merit. Or Madblind Mountain since I kinda like having just a Soldier of Fortune built into the mana base. But I'm old school like that, and clearly it would be better if I actually had divining top in the deck with it.

Modern
R{R/W} 87guide Burn
Commander
WRKellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
RTorbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
WBRKaalia HQ

User avatar
3drinks
Kaalia's Personal Liaison
Posts: 4831
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Ruined City of Drannith, Ikoria

Post by 3drinks » 1 year ago

Dunadain wrote:
1 year ago
I'm going to withhold on Desecrated Tomb it looks so cool, but every day I put it in I've been disappointed with it. I think it depends on just how hard we go in on this effect.
Because it's good when you can trigger it piecemeal, not with big living deaths. I used it to great effect in Alesha for example. Great vs opposing Withered Wretch/Scooze too since you get to build an evasive army with it. In this deck, as I foresee a classic TorEx deck with this commander, this would seem the perfect place for it to rest.

I'm totally all in with Black Market Connections. Pretty powerful card that can have tribal implications without pigeonholing us into a nebulous tribe too hard. That's a lot of text for 3mv.
Last edited by 3drinks 1 year ago, edited 2 times in total.

Modern
R{R/W} 87guide Burn
Commander
WRKellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
RTorbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
WBRKaalia HQ

User avatar
Dunadain
I like turtles
Posts: 1326
Joined: 3 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: 'Murica

Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

3drinks wrote:
1 year ago
Dunadain wrote:
1 year ago
I'm going to withhold on Desecrated Tomb it looks so cool, but every day I put it in I've been disappointed with it. I think it depends on just how hard we go in on this effect.
Because it's good when you can trigger it piecemeal, not with big living deaths. I used it to great effect in Alesha for example. Great vs opposing Withered Wretch/Scooze too since you get to build an evasive army with it. In this deck, as I foresee a classic TorEx deck with this commander, this would seem the perfect place for it to rest.

I'm totally all in with Black Market Connections. Pretty powerful card that can have tribal implications without pigeonholing us into a nebulous tribe too hard. That's a lot of text for 3mv.
Very well I've been convinced (it didn't take much XD) Yay to Desecrated Tomb.
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.

Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Emiel, The Blessed, Phelddagriff
Other: Ruhan, Zask, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada

Help me complete my JumpStart Cube!

User avatar
Dunharrow
Posts: 1821
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Montreal

Post by Dunharrow » 1 year ago

I think this deck is escaping me a bit. I really don't know phoenixes that well. I do get RB aristocrats though, so I will focus on those suggestions.
I am going to suggest Dimir House Guard. Free sac outlet that can withstand most wraths, doubles up as a tutor if you already have a sac outlet.

I am going to Nay venemous changeling as I think it is a rather poor phoenix.
Yay Black Market Connections and Desecrated Tomb.
The New World fell not to a sword but to a meme

User avatar
3drinks
Kaalia's Personal Liaison
Posts: 4831
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Ruined City of Drannith, Ikoria

Post by 3drinks » 1 year ago

Dunharrow wrote:
1 year ago
I think this deck is escaping me a bit. I really don't know phoenixes that well. I do get RB aristocrats though, so I will focus on those suggestions.
Luckily for you, tribal isn't the way to go with this anyway because it's a lackadaisical, fairly unsupported tribe. Cool tribe, but unsupported.

Modern
R{R/W} 87guide Burn
Commander
WRKellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
RTorbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
WBRKaalia HQ

User avatar
Crazy Monkey
Arcane Themes
Posts: 571
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: New Mexico, US

Post by Crazy Monkey » 1 year ago

I really need to check this thread more often, I missed the discussion on one of my favorite cards for semi-tribal. I think that Urza's Incubator is great in decks that fit two categories: tribal and commander-centric storm. I spend a fair amount of time looking over the phoenix creatures, and there are probably 5 to 8 solid inclusions including changling. That is probably barely scraping by to support incubator in a tribal context. However, the axis that I was looking at was Phyrexian Altar or Relic of Legends with my previous nomination. I am a bit of a sucker for value loops that can turn into combo loops, so adding cost reduction specifically for our commander opens up that route. I wasn't planning on nominating the incubator for price reasons, but was planning to nominate at least 3 pieces of cost reduction.

Yea on Venomous Changeling as a phoenix that happens to have deathtouch.
Yea on Desecrated Tomb for value (looks at my nomination today)
Yea on Black Market Connections for value and changelings.
Yea on Dimir House Guard. I don't know how critical the 4MV slot will be for tutors, but if I am planning to combo with skyfire phoenix then that's enough for me.

I nominate Phyrexian Altar. Any cost reduction of 2 with skyfire goes infinite EtB/dies and is a novel combo line to me. I am realizing that I may be the participant who keeps trying to fit 4+ card combos in everything, and either nominated or planned to nominate an altar in 4/5 of these decks. That sounds like it's on brand, but I hadn't intellectually noticed this.

On the tone/trend of conversation; I think that it is important that everyone participating takes the time to phrase their opinions in the least dismissive way. We had a fairly extensive conversation on that in build 2 or 3, and at the end of the day any build by committee project is an exercise in compromise. We just need to keep that in mind, even if it takes a bit longer to type.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



User avatar
Dunadain
I like turtles
Posts: 1326
Joined: 3 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: 'Murica

Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

Yay to Dimir House Guard, sac outlets are good, this one is pricey but it has flexibility.

Yay to Phyrexian Altar, sac outlets are good, I'm not all that interested in some infinite combo using cost reducers, but it's a good card no matter what else happens.
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.

Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Emiel, The Blessed, Phelddagriff
Other: Ruhan, Zask, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada

Help me complete my JumpStart Cube!

User avatar
Dunharrow
Posts: 1821
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Montreal

Post by Dunharrow » 1 year ago

3drinks wrote:
1 year ago
Dunharrow wrote:
1 year ago
I think this deck is escaping me a bit. I really don't know phoenixes that well. I do get RB aristocrats though, so I will focus on those suggestions.
Luckily for you, tribal isn't the way to go with this anyway because it's a lackadaisical, fairly unsupported tribe. Cool tribe, but unsupported.
Oh I get that we aren't doing tribal - but if we need some 20 or so phoenixes, I really do not know which ones are worth including. Like... at all. That's all I mean to say - I will really be nominating sac outlets and interaction only.


btw Yay on Altar.
The New World fell not to a sword but to a meme

User avatar
darrenhabib
Posts: 1812
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by darrenhabib » 1 year ago

Venomous Changeling yay absolutely perfect!
Black Market Connections yay
Phyrexian Altar yay

Desecrated Tomb, unless going the route of using Maskwood Nexus/Conspiracy to create mini Phoenix fodder for recasting Syrix each turn I think would be pretty underwhelming. But if we did go that route then it is a combo enabler. So I'll hold off vote for mean time.
Dimir House Guard - Ill hold off until I see more of the deck choice as well.

Alright I'll do the low hanging fruit and nominate Reassembling Skeleton to kick start the best of the no-nonsense mana efficient ways to trigger Syrix multiple times. The sacrifice outlets have already started with Phyrexian Altar and there will be more to come I'm sure.

User avatar
Moonlighter
Lunatic
Posts: 128
Joined: 3 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Imprisoned in the Moon

Post by Moonlighter » 1 year ago

Yay to Dimir House Guard, Phyrexian Altar, and Reassembling Skeleton.

There's a part of me wondering if damage doublers, etc, might be good to try and get a bit more bang for buck out of the first ability (removal, etc). I'm not putting one up on the block because I don't know which would be best, but I'm thinking things like Torbran, Thane of Red Fell or Gratuitous Violence. What are some cheap ways we can get extra juice out of the Bird Flu taking our birds out other than Basilisk Collar?
Playing EDH: Alesha Who Smiles at Death; Baba Lysaga, Night Witch; Emiel the Blessed; Breena, the Demagogue; Xenagos, God of Revels; Seton, Krosan Protector; Phelddagrif.

User avatar
aliciaofthevast
Phyrexian Flesh Agent
Posts: 328
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: she / her
Location: New Phyrexia

Post by aliciaofthevast » 1 year ago

Oh hey, cool we got a phoenix this time, I wonder if he's from Arizona! 👀

Uhm, okay, so like we're killing our creatures a bunch right? So I think I'm just gonna take 3drinks' pick for tomorrow and recommend Skullclamp, final answer. Looks like it'll draw a couple of three cards I bet 😜. I'll check in later when he tallies up all the votes later this evening.

User avatar
3drinks
Kaalia's Personal Liaison
Posts: 4831
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Ruined City of Drannith, Ikoria

Post by 3drinks » 1 year ago

A few confirmations here. I'm also going to ask when you make your nominations and votes, if you could please copy and paste the current tallies to ensure cards don't get lost or discussion missed? That'd make it a lot easier on me as well from having to go back and verify everything at 10:30 at night like I am now. I'd very much appreciate that!

I'll go ahead and yay both the skelie and the 'clamp.

Venomous Changeling yay - 3 nay - 2
Desecrated Tomb yay - 3 nay - 0
Black Market Connections yay - 4 nay - 0
Dimir House Guard yay - 3 nay - 0
Phyrexian Altar yay - 4 nay - 0



Reassembling Skeleton yay - 2 nay - 0
Skullclamp yay - 1 nay - 0

Modern
R{R/W} 87guide Burn
Commander
WRKellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
RTorbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
WBRKaalia HQ

User avatar
Dunharrow
Posts: 1821
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Montreal

Post by Dunharrow » 1 year ago

Reassembling Skeleton yay - 2 nay - 0
Skullclamp yay - 1 nay - 0


I will yay both of them

I will nominate Bloodghast. The easiest creature to recur, and with the 'fetches' we are running allows us to trigger it on opponents' turns too.
The New World fell not to a sword but to a meme

User avatar
Dunadain
I like turtles
Posts: 1326
Joined: 3 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: 'Murica

Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

Reassembling Skeleton yay - 4 nay - 0
Skullclamp yay - 3 nay - 0
Bloodghast yay - 1 nay - 0



Alright, just in case I didn't cause enough of an upset with my discussion on phoenixes as a tribe two days ago, oh boy do I have got a contentious nomination today: "Lifetime" Pass Holder.

As long as you have a sacrifice outlet, it's a one mana card that, after you play it, will open an attraction roughly once every other turn. I've yet to play a deck with only one attraction card in it, but my experience with a dedicated attraction deck has been that they are pretty strong.

Think of it as a one mana value engine that gets more and more powerful the longer it goes on, without requiring any additional input from you, and also will trigger our commander from time to time/play nicely with all our dies/etbs synergies.

Also, can you imagine this card with Phyrexian Reclamation? For every 3 mana, open an attraction is bonkers.

I don't have much else to say about it as a card, it's fairly new so it's difficult to say just yet, but I think it's pretty strong in aristocrats deck.

Ok, now for the elephant in the room. I don't really like the attractions mechanic, and to my understanding, neither do most other people. It feels kinda forced and the practical side if actually using them or inelegant. Having said that, my attitude towards them (and many other cards that I don't like) is that they are here whether I like it or not, and I'm better off accepting that, maybe even trying to find something I appreciate about them. Rather than being an old man shooting at clouds.

If the majority on here disagree, that's fine, there is real merit to the idea of making your voices heard with your wallet.

Having said that, even if this nomination DOES get shot down. For future reference, i'd like to know how we'll handle attractions in community decks. Are we going to also have to nominate 10 attractions? Seems tedious when there are only 22 legal ones, and some of them are much stronger then others. I suppose we could do if you nominate an attraction card you should also submit an attraction deck. But that only works if only one attraction card is submitted. Finally, we could go the ramp/lands route and just make @3drinks do all the work XD.
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.

Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Emiel, The Blessed, Phelddagriff
Other: Ruhan, Zask, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada

Help me complete my JumpStart Cube!

User avatar
3drinks
Kaalia's Personal Liaison
Posts: 4831
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Ruined City of Drannith, Ikoria

Post by 3drinks » 1 year ago

No. Get that sticker crap out of commander. /old man yelling at clouds

Man I am so happy to see Bloodghast back around the $10 mark. I'll yay that to bring it up to 2 yays, and confirm the 'clamp and skelie have both been locked in. For today's card I'm going to nominate the self-recurring if mana heavy phoenix, that also acts as a wrath and enjoys wearing a collar around it's neck, and that's Magma Phoenix. One of my favourite lil buddies from my Miss Lyz days.

Reassembling Skeleton yay - 4 nay - 0
Skullclamp yay - 3 nay - 0



Bloodghast yay - 2 nay - 0
Magma Phoenix yay - 0 nay - 0

Modern
R{R/W} 87guide Burn
Commander
WRKellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
RTorbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
WBRKaalia HQ

User avatar
Dunadain
I like turtles
Posts: 1326
Joined: 3 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: 'Murica

Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

3drinks wrote:
1 year ago
No. Get that sticker crap out of commander. /old man yelling at clouds

Man I am so happy to see Bloodghast back around the $10 mark. I'll yay that to bring it up to 2 yays, and confirm the 'clamp and skelie have both been locked in. For today's card I'm going to nominate the self-recurring if mana heavy phoenix, that also acts as a wrath and enjoys wearing a collar around it's neck, and that's Magma Phoenix. One of my favourite lil buddies from my Miss Lyz days.
Oh, I draw the line at stickers, at least in paper magic they were too messy for me to enjoy, but this is an attraction card, attractions have actually proved to be fairly interesting to me, as long as your willing to turn a blind eye to how (physically) inelegant they are.


Bloodghast yay - 2 nay - 0
Magma Phoenix yay - 1 nay - 0
"Lifetime" Pass Holder yay - 0 nay - 0

I didn't like Magma Phoenix when I first was looking at phoenixes, and I had even written a giant paragraph about how Magma Phoenix kills our commander so it's only good if our commander is already dead, then I remembered I'm a dumb dumb, and we have sac outlets, sac Syrix, Carrier of the Flame → Sac Magma Phoenix, stack Magma Phoenix's trigger on top off Syrix, Carrier of the Flame's, then you keep your commander and wipe the board. That's actually a pretty strong play.

My only complaint is that it's a pretty weak wipe, but as you said, it goes very nicely with Basilisk Collar
Moonlighter wrote:
1 year ago
There's a part of me wondering if damage doublers, etc, might be good to try and get a bit more bang for buck out of the first ability (removal, etc). I'm not putting one up on the block because I don't know which would be best, but I'm thinking things like Torbran, Thane of Red Fell or Gratuitous Violence. What are some cheap ways we can get extra juice out of the Bird Flu taking our birds out other than Basilisk Collar?
We could go that route, but wouldn't it be better to just physically buff our Phoenix with equipment or something? Syrix, Carrier of the Flame deals damage equal to power, so slap some equipment on them and go to town.

If we did both that could be pretty potent (doubling 3 damage is meh, doubling 6 damage? Now we're talking).

Edit: OOOOH also, if you want to get more out of the first ability we could give our phoenix infect!
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.

Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Emiel, The Blessed, Phelddagriff
Other: Ruhan, Zask, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada

Help me complete my JumpStart Cube!

User avatar
Jemolk
Compulsive Jank Builder
Posts: 418
Joined: 2 years ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Jemolk » 1 year ago

So, I just want to apologize for taking that comment from @Dunadain about phoenixes as a tribe a few days ago as uncharitably as I did. In my defense, interpreting everything in the best possible light takes effort, but it's generally effort I take pride in making, so I do feel bad about not doing so here.

That now said, I think I'm not all that likely to see eye to eye with everyone else on this one -- it's pretty clear I'm on a wildly different wavelength when it comes to this particular commander -- so I'm going to bow out of this thread and come back for v6. I'd rather that than the disconnect become a source of frustration, either for me or for anyone else.
39 Commander decks and counting. I'm sure this is fine, and not at all a problem.

User avatar
Dunadain
I like turtles
Posts: 1326
Joined: 3 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: 'Murica

Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

Jemolk wrote:
1 year ago
So, I just want to apologize for taking that comment from @Dunadain about phoenixes as a tribe a few days ago as uncharitably as I did. In my defense, interpreting everything in the best possible light takes effort, but it's generally effort I take pride in making, so I do feel bad about not doing so here.

That now said, I think I'm not all that likely to see eye to eye with everyone else on this one -- it's pretty clear I'm on a wildly different wavelength when it comes to this particular commander -- so I'm going to bow out of this thread and come back for v6. I'd rather that than the disconnect become a source of frustration, either for me or for anyone else.
Well now I feel bad about getting all defensive XD.

Props to you, It takes a big man to apologize, especially on the internet, and my comment WAS poorly phrased, so I am at least partially to blame.

I do think you could still provide a lot of ideas on this deck, but if not, I'll see you in deck 6.0!
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.

Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Emiel, The Blessed, Phelddagriff
Other: Ruhan, Zask, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada

Help me complete my JumpStart Cube!

User avatar
Crazy Monkey
Arcane Themes
Posts: 571
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: New Mexico, US

Post by Crazy Monkey » 1 year ago

So let me preface this with a hope that syntax is acceptable for the vote tallying. Copy/paste on mobile while I have lunch a bit annoying.

Yea Bloodghast (3y-0n). Easy to recur, cheap to cast. It's only drawback is triggering landfall each turn takes some work.
Yea Magma Phoenix (2y-0n). I like on theme board clears. It's mana intensive, but most phoenix are.
Nay "Lifetime" Pass Holder (0y-1n). It does do what we're looking for, but I am trying to keep from actually looking into what attractions can do. I know It's technically a legal card, but I would just rather...not.

My nomination today is Hazoret's Monument. We benefit from casting our commander, it's a looting effect, and it's cost reduction. I think it's good here even independent of combos, potentially unlike other cost reduction options.

On the topic of increasing the effectiveness of our damage, I think that there are options that give more power on EtB, as activated abilities, and abilities like either or deathtouch. Infect is usually one of those keywords that stick out to people, so including it in a value engine would significantly raise our threat profile in my opinion.

On participation, I think that is entirely up to each of us. If a deck just doesn't work well in how I build, that might be an interesting challenge or an exercise in frustration. I specifically don't think people should feel obliged to participate or not, but I do think that these threads "do most" with many participant and opinions. There have been many cards discussed in these decks that I just never considered, but excite me to include. It is refreshing, in my opinion.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



User avatar
darrenhabib
Posts: 1812
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by darrenhabib » 1 year ago

Dunadain wrote:
1 year ago
I didn't like Magma Phoenix when I first was looking at phoenixes, and I had even written a giant paragraph about how Magma Phoenix kills our commander so it's only good if our commander is already dead, then I remembered I'm a dumb dumb, and we have sac outlets, sac Syrix, Carrier of the Flame → Sac Magma Phoenix, stack Magma Phoenix's trigger on top off Syrix, Carrier of the Flame's, then you keep your commander and wipe the board. That's actually a pretty strong play.
My belief is that when you sacrifice the Magma Phoenix the damage trigger will go on the stack, then you have to cast Syrix, Carrier of the Flame immediately to that dies trigger. You don't get to order them. I'm pretty sure Syrix enters the battlefield to have the 3 damage applied and kill it again.

So I'll definitely champion "Lifetime" Pass Holder, it's time to get these old men up-to-date what the cool new kids are doing.
You have to select a minimum of 10 attractions and I'll list the best of them for synergy for the deck imo.
Hall of Mirrors|76227 can make your creatures all into Syrix, Carrier of the Flame for a flaming massacre.
Trash Bin|76621 to trigger Syrix and get a creature at random back from graveyard.
Haunted House|76589 with sacrifice outlets in the deck means that you can keep recurring a creature(s).
Balloon Stand|76539 Clown Extruder|76545 create 1/1 creature tokens which go nice with Skullclamp and sacrifice outlets that give advantages.
Storybook Ride|76752 Information Booth|76739 Fortune Teller|76579 for some card advantages.
Swinging Ship|76689 additional attacks can be powerful and with Syrix having flying can get damage in.

So without specifically putting sticker resource cards into the deck we wouldn't have stickers (so calm down grandpa), but the advantages of doing so would be to potentially give 10/10 stat to Syrix, or other abilities like giving it infect (yikes!), deathtouch/lifelink, along with a bunch of other neat advantages.

Bloodghast yay
Magma Phoenix nay
"Lifetime" Pass Holder yay
Hazoret's Monument I'll pass on voting, there are a lot of cost reduction options and it's not clear how many/which ones are the best until see more of the deck.

Dunadain already mentioned this one, but my nominee for the day is Tortured Existence as it's literally the perfect way to trigger Syrix, Carrier of the Flame each turn for only one black mana. It doesn't matter what 2 creatures you keep looping, however I was trying to think if there are any creatures that you get advantages from just putting into graveyard from hand, but I don't believe so.
There is madness so you could keep casting Blazing Rootwalla and Big Game Hunter for example, but you'd specifically want a sacrifice outlet so that you can get them back from graveyard and that the sac outlet has decent advantages.
Last edited by darrenhabib 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Crazy Monkey
Arcane Themes
Posts: 571
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: New Mexico, US

Post by Crazy Monkey » 1 year ago

I am nearly certain that the trigger to cast Syrix, Carrier of the Flame is basically the same as Horde of Notions, meaning that it's an ability on the stack that casts the spell during the resolution of the ability. This is why it works independently of timing restriction. This is also why the trigger to cast can be in any order with other dies triggers we control, as the order we put those onto the stack is chosen by the player who controls them, see Warp World.

TL;DR is the Magma Phoenix dies trigger can be chosen in any order with Syrix.

I will add a comment on my nomination: Hazoret's Monument loops cards on any creature cast. In a graveyard oriented deck that intends to repeated recast the commander, I think that is worth considering even if it doesn't carry much weight on cost reduction.

Yea Tortured Existence as well. Cheap, efficient grave and hand manipulation with a strong upside with syrix.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Commander”