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3drinks
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Post by 3drinks » 1 year ago

darrenhabib wrote:
1 year ago
My belief is that when you sacrifice the Magma Phoenix the damage trigger will go on the stack, then you have to cast Syrix, Carrier of the Flame immediately to that dies trigger. You don't get to order them. I'm pretty sure Syrix enters the battlefield to have the 3 damage applied and kill it again.
Check the sentences. Both of them are triggered abilities, as noted by the use of when/whenever in the text. Both are contingent upon [event] in this case a phoenix dying. As you control both abilities, you can decide which way you place the triggers on the stack, which most certainly is to put Syrix first, and magma phoenix on top so that magma resolves first, blows up the world-ish, then Syrix comes up and asks if you'd like to cast it.

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3drinks
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Post by 3drinks » 1 year ago

Making some evening confirmations. Bloodghast was confirmed easy enough.

I'm going to nay the crap out of these UN cards. Especially when they involve stickers. Nope.

I think hazoret's monument is a yay, we like some loot and TorEx obviously since it's literally made to do the Syrix thing.

Bloodghast yay - 4 nay - 0


Magma Phoenix yay - 2 nay - 1
"Lifetime" Pass Holder yay - 1 nay - 2
Hazoret's Monument yay - 1 nay - 0
Tortured Existence yay - 2 nay - 0

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Post by darrenhabib » 1 year ago

3drinks wrote:
1 year ago
I'm going to nay the crap out of these UN cards. Especially when they involve stickers. Nope.
Doesn't involve stickers, just Magic cards.

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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

darrenhabib wrote:
1 year ago
3drinks wrote:
1 year ago
I'm going to nay the crap out of these UN cards. Especially when they involve stickers. Nope.
Doesn't involve stickers, just Magic cards.
Aye @3drinks, you've said that twice now, but no stickers have been suggested yet.

Fine if you still don't like "Lifetime" Pass Holder, I just want to make sure this isn't a RTFC moment.
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3drinks
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Post by 3drinks » 1 year ago

darrenhabib wrote:
1 year ago
3drinks wrote:
1 year ago
I'm going to nay the crap out of these UN cards. Especially when they involve stickers. Nope.
Doesn't involve stickers, just Magic cards.
Don't all the attractions have sticker slots on them? I tune out during these UN set seasons because they're not relevant, and this one was just additionally confusing. Now we have extra no-value cards we're buying (attractions) just to make one card in the 99 work when we're not really short of recursive one drop 2/1s. I question why this thing for the job when we could use, say, Gutterbones or the new Cult Conscript from DMU? I suspect this guy only comes up because it's new and everyone wants to force the new cards. This should be the last one, not the first - once we've exhausted all the other options for the slot and the deck still wants more then we look into the extra bookkeeping of this mechanic.

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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

3drinks wrote:
1 year ago
darrenhabib wrote:
1 year ago
3drinks wrote:
1 year ago
I'm going to nay the crap out of these UN cards. Especially when they involve stickers. Nope.
Doesn't involve stickers, just Magic cards.
Don't all the attractions have sticker slots on them? I tune out during these UN set seasons because they're not relevant, and this one was just additionally confusing. Now we have extra no-value cards we're buying (attractions) just to make one card in the 99 work when we're not really short of recursive one drop 2/1s. I question why this thing for the job when we could use, say, Gutterbones or the new Cult Conscript from DMU? I suspect this guy only comes up because it's new and everyone wants to force the new cards. This should be the last one, not the first - once we've exhausted all the other options for the slot and the deck still wants more then we look into the extra bookkeeping of this mechanic.
So attraction and stickers are two entirely separate mechanics. There are a few attractions that allow you to put stickers on your other cards, but non of those are legal.

All 22 LEGAL attractions make no reference to stickers at all. (For what it's worth, stickers are a very parasitic mechanic, and they seem totally useless to me unless you are brewing a fully dedicated sticker deck, so don't worry, your safe).

comparing Gutterbones to "Lifetime" Pass Holder is comparing apples to oranges.

Gutterbones is a cog in the Syrix, Carrier of the Flame engine that allows us to trigger all our dies/etb effects as offten as we want.

"Lifetime" Pass Holder is it's own engine that cranks out attractions while ALSO playing nicely with the etb/dies effects.

In a vacuum, Gutterbones does nothing. In a vacuum, "Lifetime" Pass Holder is slowly setting up value engines for you with next to no additional input required from you (aside from making sure to kill it everytime it comes back.

The other neat thing about him is that he's not a dead draw if you already have a skeleton. Drawing a Gutterbones when you already have a Reassembling Skeleton isn't all that exciting. Drawing a "Lifetime" Pass Holder still provides a lot of value.

I genuinely think "Lifetime" Pass Holder is better than Gutterbones and Cult Conscript.

If you want to nay "Lifetime" Pass Holder out of principle, that's fine (I fully expected most people to do that when I made the nomination.) But if you want to argue about the actual power of the card, but refuse to learn what attractions are and how they work, then I'm kinda at a loss as to how to approach this.


Anyways

Magma Phoenix yay - 2 nay - 1
"Lifetime" Pass Holder yay - 1 nay - 2
Hazoret's Monument yay - 1 nay - 1
Tortured Existence yay - 3 nay - 0
Grafted Exoskeleton yay - 0 nay - 0

I don't dislike looting, but it seems like we are going to be a very black heavy deck. I'd rather play a dedicated looting card. I'm afraid Hazoret's Monument will really only cheapen/trigger off of our commander.

My nomination for the day: Grafted Exoskeleton. Allows us to kill people in 2 Syrix, Carrier of the Flame activations, and the whole sacrificed if unattached clause is significantly mitigated in this deck.
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Post by Dunharrow » 1 year ago

I feel like I already commented on Magma phoenix .
Lifetime pass holder - I was gonna nay, but then I saw Haunted House and I guess it's pretty decent with this deck. So Yay
Yay Monument and Existence.
Yay Exoskeleton

My nomination today is Living Death. Wraths are good. Bringing back a bunch of creatures at the same time is also good.

Magma Phoenix yay - 2 nay - 1
"Lifetime" Pass Holder yay - 2 nay - 2
Hazoret's Monument yay - 2 nay - 1
Tortured Existence yay - 4 nay - 0
Grafted Exoskeleton yay - 1 nay - 0
Living Death yay - 0 nay - 0
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Post by darrenhabib » 1 year ago

Living Death is one of the most powerful cards of all time, but the deck isn't packing big creatures to start off with to get big value and Plan A is to kill of creatures with Syrix, so in theory you will be filling your opponents graveyards with creatures. If this is the plan then you will need to have graveyard removal otherwise it will literally sit in your hand. Been there done that. I'm actually going to nay it because inherently all the creatures so far have their own graveyard recursion.

Grafted Exoskeleton is pretty nasty! I'll yay it.

My nominee today is Squee, Goblin Nabob. Will trigger Syrix when returns to hand and we have Tortured Existence to get continuous value from it. Skullclamp target and general sacrifice fodder.
On that note I'll yay Hazoret's Monument because it's another discard outlet for value.

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Post by aliciaofthevast » 1 year ago

What happened? Is it the holiday?

I'm gonna go through and yay some cards, nay some cards, and basically get this bumped again. 3drinks will add them to the list I'm sure.

I also agree with Darren that this is not a living death deck, we don't need to bring back all the things. In the spirit of that I'm gonna go old school and suggest Disturbed Burial as a five mana repeatable way to get our commander back, to get other things back and earn a trigger, I think this is a fine pick!

Magma Phoenix yay - 3 nay - 1
"Lifetime" Pass Holder yay - 2 nay - 3
Hazoret's Monument yay - 3 nay - 1
Tortured Existence yay - 4 nay - 0
Grafted Exoskeleton yay - 3 nay - 0
Living Death yay - 0 nay - 2
Squee, Goblin Nabob yay - 1 nay - 0
Disturbed Burial yay - 0 nay - 0

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Post by 3drinks » 1 year ago

Thanks a bunch Lish, always helpful! A few confirmations to make here. I'm also gonna side with @darrenhabib's assessment of living death and instead at least offer up Rise of the Dark Realms as an alternative, if someone wants to suggest that effect.

I think this is the kind of deck where we want to play Repercussion though, correct? That's my nomination.

I'll yay the Squee and...disturbed burial, lmfao Lish taking us into the wayback machine when Capsize and it's ilk was the GOAT :rofl:

Magma Phoenix yay - 3 nay - 1
"Lifetime" Pass Holder yay - 2 nay - 3
Hazoret's Monument yay - 3 nay - 1
Tortured Existence yay - 4 nay - 0
Grafted Exoskeleton yay - 3 nay - 0

Living Death yay - 0 nay - 3


Squee, Goblin Nabob yay - 2 nay - 0
Disturbed Burial yay - 1 nay - 0
Repercussion yay - 0 nay - 0

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Post by Dunharrow » 1 year ago

yay squee, disturbed burial
Repercussion is a bit tougher to gauge, but I think it seems pretty good. yay.

I am going to nominate Flayer of the Hatebound. Terror of the Peaks is better but out of the price range. Flayer also triggers multiple times per turn so it can be a win-con if you go infinite.

Squee, Goblin Nabob yay - 3 nay - 0
Disturbed Burial yay - 2 nay - 0
Repercussion yay - 1 nay - 0
Flayer of the Hatebound ya - 0 nay - 0
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Post by 3drinks » 1 year ago

Oh man I have not seen a flayer come around in years, that takes me back.

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Post by Crazy Monkey » 1 year ago

It looks like I wasn't the only person who was busy this weekend, based on the infrequent updates here.

Yea Squee, Goblin Nabob (4y-0n) as eternal discard fodder and easy leave the graveyard trigger. I don't recall if 3 votes is still the threshold to add, so this may be a redundant vote.
Yea Disturbed Burial (3y-0n) for a repeatable recur.
Yea Repercussion (2y-0n) for some extra damage as phoenixes burn our opponents creatures.
Definitely Yea on Flayer of the Hatebound (1y-0n) self triggering Sylex, while benefiting from other creatures jumping in and out of the graveyard. That's a great inclusion.

I was last thinking about how infect paints a target on us, but how good it is with repeated damage over time effects. That got me thinking about wither. For that reason, I nominate Everlasting Torment. Burn down or make inconsequential the opposing threats. And it happens to work well with undying, which really came to mind with Flayer of the Hatebound.
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Post by aliciaofthevast » 1 year ago

Oh man, we got some toys now! I'll yay the Repercussion, that's a great combo piece and it's still under budget for now! Yay flayer of the hatebound too, I've never played with it before but it's rewarding us for what we want to do anyway. I think everlasting torment is on point so I'll yay that.

For today, we're going back to Commander circa 2011 and nominating Vicious Shadows, since creatures are going to die a lot!

Squee, Disturbed Burial, Repercussion is IN.

Flayer of the Hatebound yay - 2 nay - 0
Everlasting Torment yay - 1 nay - 0
Vicious Shadows yay - 0 nay - 0

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Post by Dunharrow » 1 year ago

I will yay Everlasting Torment. Fun combo with Flayer since you can keep targeting flayer with the ETB and keep recurring it over and over again. Not sure what that enables with just those two cards but I am sure we can take advantage somehow. Just not with Repercussion out lol!

Vicious Shadows always seemed to expensive to me. Blood Artist effects always seemed more my style. I will abstain until I see more opinions shared.

I will wait for Flayer vote to finish before submitting my next card.
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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

Lots of sick new cards, sorry I haven't weighed in for two days, my interest in magic comes in waves. XD

Flayer of the Hatebound yay - 3 nay - 0
Everlasting torment yay - 2 nay - 0
Vicious shadows yay - 0 nay - 1

I do actually kinda like Vicious Shadows as ridiculously expensive card that just shuts games down in aristocrat decks, but doesn't Grafted Exoskeleton and do that for a much lighter mana investment in this deck?

I'm concerned that we are not adding skeletons fast enough to have a critical density by the time this list is done, therefore, I'll nominate Sanitarium Skeleton. Normally, he's unimpressive because he's rather mana intensive, but I was looking at all the skeletons and the vast majority of them can only be returned on your turn, which is fine, but being able to trigger Syrix, Carrier of the Flame multiple time a rotation justifies Sanitarium Skeleton imo.

I did think about Cult Conscript but if you already have some sac fodder, do you need another skeleton? (Not to mention 3 of our 6 creatures our skeletons, and our other sac fodder engine, Black Market Connections also makes skeletons, so I imagine he'll have trouble actually triggering.)
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Post by 3drinks » 1 year ago

I think the hesitation on Vicious Shadows is people not realizing it triggers on any creature dying. So one wrath and you end up zoinking someone right out of the game. I'm running late this morning so I'll need to update this on my break.

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Post by Crazy Monkey » 1 year ago

Yea on Vicious Shadows (1y-1n) triggering on global dies us potent, and while the mana cost is high, it's paid for in damage rather quickly unless everyone is hellbent. It's probably less mana long term than Grafted Exoskeleton once you include equip cost more than once. And this deck probably wants to cast + equip in one turn, so that's a 6MV spell. Both are effectively must-answer cards or we immolate the table.
Yea Sanitarium Skeleton (1y-0n) as a relatively easy way to trigger leaves the graveyard. It does cost about as much as the phoenixes though.

On the topic of phoenixes, I think that there are some worth considering. I nominate Flamewake Phoenix for today. If we include (ie. I intend to nominate) cards similar to In the Web of War or Judith, the Scourge Diva to power up damage triggers then Syrix recurs a solid attacker for r. It isn't instant speed, but it is one of the highest power/recur mana ratios available. The additional thematic bonus of the phoenix creature type is good too.
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Post by 3drinks » 1 year ago

Updated the list. Flayer of the Hatebound, Repercussion, Squee, and disturbed burial in. I'll offer the confirming yay to everlasting torment too.

For today's card, to combo with torment, let's run Kulrath Knight.

I'm pretty neutral on sanitarium skelie. It's probably fine? I don't think it's best in class though. Easy yay for shadows and flamewake, given I just added those to Agent Gut.

Vicious Shadows yay - 2 nay - 1
Sanitarium Skeleton yay - 1 nay - 0
Flamewake Phoenix yay - 1 nay - 0
Kulrath Knight yay - 0 nay - 0

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Post by Dunharrow » 1 year ago

I will still abstain on vicious shadows. I get that it can win games, but maybe 7 mana is still a lot? Like it does nothing on its own. Are you going to wrath afterwards? You have 10 mana?
I will nay Sanitarium Skeleton - I think it's too mana intensive. 4 mana to recur puts it on par with a previously nayed creature.
Yay Flamewake Phoenix
Yay Kulrath KNight


My nomination is going to be a sac outlet. Immersturm Predator. It's sac outlet, survives wraths, hates graveyards and I suppose you can exile a creature from your yard to trigger the commander in a pinch.

Vicious Shadows yay - 2 nay - 1
Sanitarium Skeleton yay - 1 nay - 1
Flamewake Phoenix yay - 2 nay - 0
Kulrath Knight yay - 1 nay - 0
Immersturm Predator
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Post by 3drinks » 1 year ago

Dunharrow wrote:
1 year ago
I will still abstain on vicious shadows. I get that it can win games, but maybe 7 mana is still a lot? Like it does nothing on its own. Are you going to wrath afterwards? You have 10 mana?
Or any sac outlet. Like, say, PhyTow. At seven mv yeah it's high but it's also the pinnacle of answer or lose, because not answering it you will lose. Stopping others from wrathing is a pretty good perk too, no one wants to get a bunch of triggers aimed at their face.

I'll also yay the immersturm predator. Pretty simple, reasonable enough include that doesn't get enough love tbh. We can change that.

Vicious Shadows yay - 2 nay - 1
Sanitarium Skeleton yay - 1 nay - 1
Flamewake Phoenix yay - 2 nay - 0
Kulrath Knight yay - 1 nay - 0
Immersturm Predator yay - 1 nay - 0

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R{R/W} 87guide Burn
Commander
WRKellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
RTorbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
WBRKaalia HQ

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Post by 3drinks » 1 year ago

For today's card (and I wonder if this commander just sucked the interest from people, the holidays are catching up, or if the early differences in opinion have caused a cool down?), let's nominate Squee, the Immortal. It just never dies, good with our skullclamp anyway and is a no-fuss way to make sure we can trigger Syrix.

Vicious Shadows yay - 2 nay - 1
Sanitarium Skeleton yay - 1 nay - 1
Flamewake Phoenix yay - 2 nay - 0
Kulrath Knight yay - 1 nay - 0
Immersturm Predator yay - 1 nay - 0
Squee, the Immortal yay - 0 nay - 0

Modern
R{R/W} 87guide Burn
Commander
WRKellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
RTorbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
WBRAlesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
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Post by Crazy Monkey » 1 year ago

It seems that we might not have enough participants currently to get 3 votes unless a card is unanimous. I suspect our pending list will continue to grow.

I don't know if I am sold on Squee, the Immortal. He is resistant and doesn't need support, but 3 is a lot. I guess he is a Sanitarium Skeleton That doesn't have instant speed and triggers cast effects. I have mostly been brainstorming the skeletons as a way to trigger Sylex on opponents turns, so that's a large drawback in my opinion. I think that I am a nay on this Squee.

Yea on Immersturm Predator as a self protection sacrifice outlet that can grow over time. That was definitely not on my radar.

Yea on Kulrath Knight, even though I don't know how much wither we can fit in. Messing with combat and shutting off opposing +1/+1 counters is nice.

I nominate Nemesis Phoenix as the next-best tribal option for Sylex. Attacking is something that I think this deck plans to do, and two creatures is a low investment. In return we recur a 4 power creature that is also attacking (see: flamewake) for 3 mana. That's rather reasonable rate of return.

Vicious Shadows 2 yea 1 nay
Sanitarium Skeleton 1 yea 1 nay
Flamewake Phoenix 2 yea 0 nay
Kulrath Knight 2 yea 0 nay
Immersturm Predator 2 yea 0 nay
Squee, the Immortal 0 yea 1 nay
Nemesis Phoenix 0 yea 0 nay
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Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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Dunharrow
Posts: 1821
Joined: 4 years ago
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Location: Montreal

Post by Dunharrow » 1 year ago

I am changing my nay on Sanitarium Skeleton to yay. I missed the point about triggering Syrix, Carrier of the Flame on opponents' turns. This makes it pretty decent. Do we need some discard outlets so we can activate multiple times per turn cycle?
Yay on Squee and yay on Nemesis Phoenix.

Vicious Shadows 2 yea 1 nay
Sanitarium Skeleton 2 yea 0 nay
Flamewake Phoenix 2 yea 0 nay
Kulrath Knight 2 yea 0 nay
Immersturm Predator 2 yea 0 nay
Squee, the Immortal 1 yea 1 nay
Nemesis Phoenix 1 yea 0 nay
The New World fell not to a sword but to a meme

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Crazy Monkey
Arcane Themes
Posts: 571
Joined: 4 years ago
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Location: New Mexico, US

Post by Crazy Monkey » 1 year ago

So I am going to skip the vote recap this time because there haven't been new nominations yet today and I am feeling lazy.

I nominate Judith, the Scourge Diva as a dies trigger that works with our other damage enablers, while powering up phoenixes for attack/damage and pushing more creatures to 4+ power.
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