Combat tricks with double blocks and damage assignment

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Ertai Planeswalker
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Post by Ertai Planeswalker » 1 year ago

Hi all,

So after playing this game for 25+ years something that I should know by heart led to a rules misunderstanding yesterday. The situation:

My opponent attacks me with a 3/3 menace.
i double block with a 3/3 and a 2/2.
My opponent assigns his damage to the 3/3.
Before damage is dealt I use an instant (can't remember the name) that gives my 3/3 +1/+1 and indestructible until end of turn.
In response to my spell, my opponent Lightning Strikes my 3/3.

And here is when it gets confusing because my opponent says the damage of his creature will now be done to the 2/2 while given the 3/3 is gone but I tought the damage once assigned cannot be changed anymore. I mean if you can change damage this way how do you use combat tricks in double blocks effectively?

Could someone please explain what the correct outcome of this situation is and more importantly, why?

Accepted Answer

by Mookie » 1 year ago
The combat steps are:
  • Start of combat
  • Declare attackers
  • Declare blockers
  • Combat damage
  • End of combat
Note that 'declare blockers' and 'combat damage' are separate steps. In this case, your opponent technically didn't actually assign damage to your 3/3 - rather, they declared that it would be the first blocker, and the 2/2 would be the second blocker. This a pretty commonly used shortcut. Damage isn't actually assigned until the damage step, which means that if a blocking creature is removed prior to that step (in this case, during the declare blockers step), then it won't be around to deal or take damage. As a result, all of the attacking creature's damage is dealt to the remaining blocker.

I will call out that if your combat trick had succeeded and your 3/3 creature were grown to a 4/4 indestructible, then your opponent would have been forced to assign 3 points of damage to it, and both it and the 2/2 would have survived. On the flip side, if you hadn't used a combat trick and given your opponent priority, then the trade would have gone through, and both their 3/3 and your 3/3 would have died - they wouldn't have the opportunity to do something like Giant Growth their creature, because they already passed priority.
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Mookie
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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

The combat steps are:
  • Start of combat
  • Declare attackers
  • Declare blockers
  • Combat damage
  • End of combat
Note that 'declare blockers' and 'combat damage' are separate steps. In this case, your opponent technically didn't actually assign damage to your 3/3 - rather, they declared that it would be the first blocker, and the 2/2 would be the second blocker. This a pretty commonly used shortcut. Damage isn't actually assigned until the damage step, which means that if a blocking creature is removed prior to that step (in this case, during the declare blockers step), then it won't be around to deal or take damage. As a result, all of the attacking creature's damage is dealt to the remaining blocker.

I will call out that if your combat trick had succeeded and your 3/3 creature were grown to a 4/4 indestructible, then your opponent would have been forced to assign 3 points of damage to it, and both it and the 2/2 would have survived. On the flip side, if you hadn't used a combat trick and given your opponent priority, then the trade would have gone through, and both their 3/3 and your 3/3 would have died - they wouldn't have the opportunity to do something like Giant Growth their creature, because they already passed priority.

Argus
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Post by Argus » 1 year ago

Ertai Planeswalker wrote:
1 year ago
Could someone please explain what the correct outcome of this situation is and more importantly, why?
You appear to have overlooked a change that happened in 2009, so that combat damage no longer uses the stack:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... 2009-06-10
510. Combat Damage Step
510.1. First, the active player announces how each attacking creature assigns its combat damage, then the defending player announces how each blocking creature assigns its combat damage. This turn-based action doesn't use the stack. A player assigns a creature's combat damage according to the following rules:

510.2. Second, all combat damage that's been assigned is dealt simultaneously. This turn-based action doesn't use the stack. No player has the chance to cast spells or activate abilities between the time combat damage is assigned and the time it's dealt.
Here is the sequence for what happened in your game:
  1. Opponent's combat phase begins. Beginning of combat step begins.
  2. Opponent gets priority and passes.
  3. You get priority and pass.
  4. Beginning of combat step ends.
  5. Declare attackers step begins.
  6. Opponent declares Veinwitch Coven (or whatever) as an attacking creature and taps it.
  7. Opponent gets priority and passes.
  8. You get priority and pass.
  9. Declare attackers step ends.
  10. Declare blockers step begins.
  11. You declare your 3/3 and 2/2 as blockers for Veinwitch Coven.
  12. Opponent declares the damage assignment order for the Veinwitch Coven: First the 3/3 then the 2/2.
  13. Opponent gets priority and passes.
  14. You get priority and cast Mortal's Resolve (or whatever). You choose your 3/3 as the target and pay the cost using 1G obtained in an unspecified way.
  15. You get priority and pass.
  16. Opponent gets priority and casts Lightning Strike. Opponent chooses your 3/3 as the target and pays the cost using 1R obtained in an unspecified way.
  17. Opponent gets priority and passes.
  18. You get priority and pass.
  19. The top object on the stack (the spell cast in step 16) resolves. Lightning Strike deals 3 damage to your 3/3. Lightning Strike goes to opponent's graveyard.
  20. Opponent would get priority, but there is a state-based action to perform. Your 3/3 has lethal damage and is destroyed.
  21. Opponent gets priority and passes.
  22. You get priority and pass.
  23. The top object on the stack (the spell cast in step 14) resolves. But its only target is gone, so instead it just goes to your graveyard.
  24. Opponent gets priority and passes.
  25. You get priority and pass.
  26. Declare blockers step ends.
  27. Combat damage step begins
  28. Opponent assigns damage from the Veinwitch Coven to its remaining blockers: 3 damage to your 2/2. You assign 2 damage from your 2/2 to the Veinwitch Coven.
  29. Combat damage is dealt as assigned. Veinwitch Coven deals 3 damage to your 2/2 as your 2/2 deals 2 damage to Veinwitch Coven.
  30. Opponent would get priority, but there is a state-based action to perform. Your 2/2 has lethal damage and is destroyed.
  31. Opponent gets priority and ....
If no spells had been cast in the declare blockers step, the combat damage step would have started with Veinwitch Coven and your 3/3 being destroyed by lethal damage before you could cast anything.
Why bother with mere rulings when so many answers can be found in the Rules?

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Ertai Planeswalker
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Post by Ertai Planeswalker » 1 year ago

Thanks for clarifying this. I knew damage did not use the stack anymore, but somehow I couldn't figure this one out.

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