Combat-Sling

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Cyberium
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Post by Cyberium » 1 year ago

How do people feel about combat-sling decks i.e. spell sling that could profit from combat?

For examples, Abaddon the Despoiler, Tetsuo, Imperial Champion, Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest, Magar of the Magic Strings, etc.

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BaronCappuccino
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Post by BaronCappuccino » 1 year ago

I had a Taigam, Ojutai Master deck a few years back. I have trouble with decks that require two or more card effect categories in a particular order in order to function. For example, Taigam needing cards to survive combat first, and then cards for the payoff. Because you need such a threshold of the former in order to ensure having one early, you risk not drawing into payoff cards like extra turn cards in this case, when you need them. I had a similar issue with not on topic Rakdos, Lord of Riots, needing exploitable damage production followed by worthy creatures without color pips. They always played kinda clunky. A combat slinger like Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest, who stays above the fray, would mitigate the above concerns and I'd be fine with it. I recall online brewing with Shu dozens of times as a potential deck, and I repeatedly failed to make the Jeskai colors affordable, but the results always seemed promising in that they look like the decklists a non cEDH player would imagine putting together a cEDH deck - 0 and 1 drops abound, the sort of generic bluish "control deck" that went out of favor 15 years ago.

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Dunharrow
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Post by Dunharrow » 1 year ago

I run Shu Yun. It's a control deck for the most part, plays a Sunforger package.
I play a bunch of Shadow Rift effects. The deck has a lot of cantrips which really helps you pile on damage and keep the cards flowing.

The biggest knock against it is being a control deck that tries to win with combat damage. It can be hard to take out more than one opponent. You can play pump spells, but I don't think it's great.
You can play strong creatures that do well with double strike. I always liked Medomai the Ageless so I stuck it in mine.
Or put a Runechanter's Pike on an Invisible Stalker

Just be careful not to play Swords with protection from blue. Swords rock with Shu Yun, but protection from blue stops you from getting double triggers.

My deck usually tries to play Sword of Feast and Famine or Hidden Strings to allow me to cast a bunch of spells pre combat, get damage in, and then be untapped to leave up countermagic.
The New World fell not to a sword but to a meme

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Treamayne
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Post by Treamayne » 1 year ago

A Prowess deck fills this role nicely - especially with buyback/rebound. Things like Haze of Rage/Seething Anger (depending on go-wide or Voltron preference) can really rack up triggers. For example, recently on MTGO my prowess deck "went off" and. . .
SPOILER
Show
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a combination of flipped Homura, Strongarm Monk and Haze of Rage -
Zedruu the Greatest.jpg
I've been testing by swapping Zedruu , Shu Yun and Elsha through the command zone, but all three have done well helming the deck (if for different reasons).
V/R

Treamayne

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PrimevalCommander
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Post by PrimevalCommander » 1 year ago

I'm playing Kalamax, the Stormsire somewhat similar to this. My primary method of tapping Kalamax is attacking, and I play a handful of evasion cantrips to help get him into combat and around blockers. Mainly the cantrips are just double-targeting Kalamax to draw me extra cards, but sometimes I can split the copies to other creatures, which is nice. I'm not heavy on combat-sling since much of my instants are interaction or card draw, but I am always on the lookout for the next great combat cantrip.

Recent cards that made the deck, or are on the radar.
Fists of Flame
Charge Through
Twinferno
Slip out the Back

I have come to like this play style as it feels more interactive than typical spell decks, while still getting to play on the stack a bit more than typical combat decks. It really provides another dynamic to combat when you have so many stack based options before blockers, after blockers, before damage, after attacks declared, etc. My opponents flinch every time I say "Before Blockers" because they don't know if they will take a little extra damage (Charge Through, or a lot of extra damage (Fists of Flame). And I still get to double up removal and draw spells on other player's turns. I have been wanting to lean harder on combat to speed up my clock, which is why Twinferno is getting a look. Main issue is that doublestrike doesn't stack like "double power" would. But the spell copy mode is highly relevant to me, so it has good flexibility there.
Last edited by PrimevalCommander 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Ruiner
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Post by Ruiner » 1 year ago

I've got a Shu Yun deck and while it does decent, it always feels like killing one player is easy and then you have to refuel. I could go more heavy on equipment but that kind of defeats the point of trying him as a voltron spell slinging commander in my opinion.

I've had far more success with equipments and auras decks than spell-slinger decks as far as commander damage kills are concerned. Not that it isn't fun, but it feels more challenging in a more tuned environment at least.

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PrimevalCommander
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Post by PrimevalCommander » 1 year ago

Ruiner wrote:
1 year ago
I've got a Shu Yun deck and while it does decent, it always feels like killing one player is easy and then you have to refuel. I could go more heavy on equipment but that kind of defeats the point of trying him as a voltron spell slinging commander in my opinion.

I've had far more success with equipments and auras decks than spell-slinger decks as far as commander damage kills are concerned. Not that it isn't fun, but it feels more challenging in a more tuned environment at least.
Don't focus on killing one player all at once, spread the damage around a little bit where available. That way one player doesn't feel so threatened and your threat assessment falls slightly. Then when 2 or 3 players have some commander damage on them, you can take your swing at whoever is open at the time for a commander kill and go down the list. Hopefully you can save and bank resources over time this way and not feel so all-in on one player. At least this is how I play Kalamax, and I have a high percentage of commander kills on multiple players by leaving one player at 7-9 commander damage, and moving to someone else, then I can one-shot them later when I get an opening. It seems like spreading it out would put everyone on high alert, but generally I'm on higher alert if I see someone go from 0-21 commander damage in one swing more than seeing them soak up 2-3 hits before getting to 21. If the guy to my right takes a 12 power, unblockable, doublestrike commander hit, you bet I'm looking for removal asap.

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Sinis
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Post by Sinis » 1 year ago

I like these decks, though I find they're fragile and inconsistent. A friend of mine is currently adjusting an Adeliz, the Cinder Wind deck, and it's very hard to count to 80 or 120 with the creatures available.

I think they're a worthy project, but I don't think they're very good in a technical sense. Obviously, some generals are better than others.

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Ruiner
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Post by Ruiner » 1 year ago

PrimevalCommander wrote:
1 year ago
Ruiner wrote:
1 year ago
I've got a Shu Yun deck and while it does decent, it always feels like killing one player is easy and then you have to refuel. I could go more heavy on equipment but that kind of defeats the point of trying him as a voltron spell slinging commander in my opinion.

I've had far more success with equipments and auras decks than spell-slinger decks as far as commander damage kills are concerned. Not that it isn't fun, but it feels more challenging in a more tuned environment at least.
Don't focus on killing one player all at once, spread the damage around a little bit where available. That way one player doesn't feel so threatened and your threat assessment falls slightly. Then when 2 or 3 players have some commander damage on them, you can take your swing at whoever is open at the time for a commander kill and go down the list. Hopefully you can save and bank resources over time this way and not feel so all-in on one player. At least this is how I play Kalamax, and I have a high percentage of commander kills on multiple players by leaving one player at 7-9 commander damage, and moving to someone else, then I can one-shot them later when I get an opening. It seems like spreading it out would put everyone on high alert, but generally I'm on higher alert if I see someone go from 0-21 commander damage in one swing more than seeing them soak up 2-3 hits before getting to 21. If the guy to my right takes a 12 power, unblockable, doublestrike commander hit, you bet I'm looking for removal asap.
That's actually what I tend to do with other decks where I am aiming for commander damage (unless someone is an immediate threat that has to go now), like Killian, Zurgo, or Abomination of Llanowar.

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Cyberium
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Post by Cyberium » 1 year ago

Ruiner wrote:
1 year ago
I've got a Shu Yun deck and while it does decent, it always feels like killing one player is easy and then you have to refuel. I could go more heavy on equipment but that kind of defeats the point of trying him as a voltron spell slinging commander in my opinion.

I've had far more success with equipments and auras decks than spell-slinger decks as far as commander damage kills are concerned. Not that it isn't fun, but it feels more challenging in a more tuned environment at least.
With Shu Yun, I enjoy giving opponents' creatures doublestrike. It's a nice political tool and helps you kill other opponents in joint effort.

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Gamazson
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Post by Gamazson » 1 year ago

I am running Glenn, the Voice of Calm as a combat spell slinger and I find him to be surprisingly effective. I don't run into the gas the problem thanks to his card draw ability. I built it on a lark, assuming it wouldn't work most of the time, yet it is consistent.

You can check out my list here: viewtopic.php?p=235483&hilit=glenn#p235483

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hyalopterouslemur
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Post by hyalopterouslemur » 1 year ago

I'm all for it. I actually like the idea of somewhat contrasting strategies that somehow work together, and prowess is even keyworded.
Thanks to Feyd_Ruin for the avatar!

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