Don’t play wraths. Or is the casual crowd going too far?

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toctheyounger
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Post by toctheyounger » 1 year ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
1 year ago
There's no such thing as too many wraths.

There are no good major EDH content creators.
This from the Erebos player lol. I kid, I kid. I think different decks want different setups, there is no fixed formula.

As far as creators go I think it depends what you're looking for. If you're after chuckles theres some good stuff out there, same with gameplay. If you're after good takes and correct strategy you're chasing a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow that doesn't exist.
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Post by TheGildedGoose » 1 year ago

toctheyounger wrote:
1 year ago
TheGildedGoose wrote:
1 year ago
There's no such thing as too many wraths.

There are no good major EDH content creators.
This from the Erebos player lol. I kid, I kid. I think different decks want different setups, there is no fixed formula.

As far as creators go I think it depends what you're looking for. If you're after chuckles theres some good stuff out there, same with gameplay. If you're after good takes and correct strategy you're chasing a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow that doesn't exist.
I run more in Phelddy, honestly. I'm, too busy making sure they can't even play stuff with Erebos.

As for content creators go, well... there's a serious dearth of decent EDH information out there.

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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

I will say I've slightly lowered my wrath counts over the past couple years. Often you need fewer than you think you do. People tend to play all removal too early imo. And it's an effect that can easily get stuck in hand for a long time.

That said, it's rare that I don't want a couple just in case. Even an aggro deck wants asymmetrical ones.
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Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
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Post by toctheyounger » 1 year ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
1 year ago
toctheyounger wrote:
1 year ago
TheGildedGoose wrote:
1 year ago
There's no such thing as too many wraths.

There are no good major EDH content creators.
This from the Erebos player lol. I kid, I kid. I think different decks want different setups, there is no fixed formula.

As far as creators go I think it depends what you're looking for. If you're after chuckles theres some good stuff out there, same with gameplay. If you're after good takes and correct strategy you're chasing a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow that doesn't exist.
I run more in Phelddy, honestly. I'm, too busy making sure they can't even play stuff with Erebos.

As for content creators go, well... there's a serious dearth of decent EDH information out there.
I don't disagree, but I think the format is so transient that providing accurate correct takes is just impossible over time. Every meta is different and I think looking for good strategy information for the format in a video is a fools errand. If you're entertained by a content creator, great. Thats the most you can rightly ask.
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

toctheyounger wrote: I don't disagree, but I think the format is so transient that providing accurate correct takes is just impossible over time. Every meta is different and I think looking for good strategy information for the format in a video is a fools errand. If you're entertained by a content creator, great. Thats the most you can rightly ask.
Considering how big a hobby mtg is, our content creators are all depressingly low-budget imo. The prof is easily the biggest and he's still pretty small considering.

And while there are pros making content for other formats, the big commander channels are, imo, mediocre at best in terms of play skill. Yes, it's hard to be "good" at a format without an established meta but everyone I see playing commander online makes mistakes left right and center. The most popular creators mostly get noticed for their presentation over their depth of knowledge imo. Other games rally way harder around their pro players.

Though in fairness, I think other games have more high-polish content creators in their pro ranks, whereas most mtg pros are pretty bad at making watchable content.

But that's mostly for other formats, commander fails at having pros at all as far as I can tell.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by NZB2323 » 1 year ago

Wrath tribal is not popular. Sarulf, Realm Eater, Zurgo Helmsmasher, and Avacyn, Angel of Hope are not popular commanders to play against.

My Cleric Tribal deck runs Crippling Fear, Damn, Winds of Abandon, Cleansing Nova, and Austere Command. A lot of times the other players at the table are happy that I'm casting a board wipe as it hurts the stronger player and makes it more of a fair fight.

With that being said, my cleric tribal deck is my 2nd most powerful deck and if I feel it's too strong for the playgroup I'll switch to a deck that's less powerful.

Also, there are lots of answers to board wipes. If you're playing blue, you have counterspells. Beyond that there is:
Current Decks
rg Morophon, the infinite Kavu Eowyn, human tribal Legolas, voltron control Wb Tymna/Ravos cleric tribal Neheb, Chicago Bulls tribal Ug Edric pauper

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Edgar Markov Kaalia, angel board wipes Ghen, prison Captain Sisay Ub Nymris, draw go Sarulf, voltron control Niv-Mizzet, combo Winota Sidisi, Zombie Tribal

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Post by toctheyounger » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
toctheyounger wrote: I don't disagree, but I think the format is so transient that providing accurate correct takes is just impossible over time. Every meta is different and I think looking for good strategy information for the format in a video is a fools errand. If you're entertained by a content creator, great. Thats the most you can rightly ask.
Considering how big a hobby mtg is, our content creators are all depressingly low-budget imo. The prof is easily the biggest and he's still pretty small considering.

And while there are pros making content for other formats, the big commander channels are, imo, mediocre at best in terms of play skill. Yes, it's hard to be "good" at a format without an established meta but everyone I see playing commander online makes mistakes left right and center. The most popular creators mostly get noticed for their presentation over their depth of knowledge imo. Other games rally way harder around their pro players.

Though in fairness, I think other games have more high-polish content creators in their pro ranks, whereas most mtg pros are pretty bad at making watchable content.

But that's mostly for other formats, commander fails at having pros at all as far as I can tell.
Hard to disagree with any of this to be honest. Theres a lot of creators out there making poor plays. Honestly most of the gameplay I watch these days is cedh. Its a different experience but you do see people playing to their absolute best. Play to Win in particular is pretty great.

As far as casual content goes it seems to mostly focus on flash and production value rather than good gameplay.
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Post by TheGildedGoose » 1 year ago

toctheyounger wrote:
1 year ago
As far as casual content goes it seems to mostly focus on flash and production value rather than good gameplay.
Hit the nail on the head.

Which is fine, I guess? We all play this game to have fun, after all, but I've tired watching The Command Zone multiple times and get about five minutes into an episode before wanting to gouge my eyes out. There's just not a great intersection of competent casual EDH players and competent content creators. There is plenty of okay information out there in video form, but a lot of it is fluff and nonsense.

If I ever make my Treatise article into a video like I intend to do, it will be the best of its kind.

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Post by toctheyounger » 1 year ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
1 year ago
toctheyounger wrote:
1 year ago
As far as casual content goes it seems to mostly focus on flash and production value rather than good gameplay.
Hit the nail on the head.

Which is fine, I guess? We all play this game to have fun, after all, but I've tired watching The Command Zone multiple times and get about five minutes into an episode before wanting to gouge my eyes out. There's just not a great intersection of competent casual EDH players and competent content creators. There is plenty of okay information out there in video form, but a lot of it is fluff and nonsense.

If I ever make my Treatise article into a video like I intend to do, it will be the best of its kind.
I think the casual edh content creators spread themselves too thin trying to be everything to everyone. Rather than list em all ill just say I've watched most and been left unsatisfied by virtually any strategic content I've seen. They all tend to focus on card choices and money winning games rather than game theory and solid lines. Its part of why I like the creators that focus more on comedy and gags than anything. The format needs to be taken less seriously and we can all use a laugh. The best way to figure this stuff out for yourself is to play your deck, learn its lines and how your games play out. Key piece being learn it for yourself. Being told things generally isn't a good way to learn this sort of stuff.
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

I do think there's room for people taking commander more serious too, but unfortunately I think there's a pretty steep divide in terms of content between casual focus with weak gameplay and simplistic takes, versus cEDH that focuses on that particular meta. People taking a serious approach to exploring the depth of strategy within non-cEDH meta...basically nonexistent afaik. Which is a shame, because I think it pushes more people who enjoy getting deep into strategy towards cEDH, which is imo a much less interesting format.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by toctheyounger » 1 year ago

Yeah in many ways I don't disagree. I personally like a deck with a depth of sequencing and varied lines, abd while those do exist in cedh they're not top tier because they're convoluted where Thoracle isn't and breach is resilient enough to resist interference. Thats not to say winconless stax beats and janky lines don't win games, they do, they just don't tend to compete well with the best decks in that scene.

I definitely think there's a niche there for high level edh strategy that no one has hit yet. The nitpicking nerds kinda went for it at one point and had some good stuff but they've kind of done what everyone else has and tailored their content to the masses now.

I think the person who does this sort of content really has to stick to their guns and accept that they're not in it for the follows, do what they set out to do and damned be the consequences, which seems a thankless task. Itd be an invaluable resource if done well though.

Anyway I feel like I've hugely derailed this thread. As you were everyone.
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Post by TheGildedGoose » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
I do think there's room for people taking commander more serious too, but unfortunately I think there's a pretty steep divide in terms of content between casual focus with weak gameplay and simplistic takes, versus cEDH that focuses on that particular meta. People taking a serious approach to exploring the depth of strategy within non-cEDH meta...basically nonexistent afaik. Which is a shame, because I think it pushes more people who enjoy getting deep into strategy towards cEDH, which is imo a much less interesting format.
Exactly this.

@toctheyounger I plan on making that sort of content, but from a hobbyist/informative perspective rather than a "content creator" perspective. I sincerely doubt I'll ever make YouTubing a day job even if I somehow become "successful."

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Post by toctheyounger » 1 year ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
1 year ago
DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
I do think there's room for people taking commander more serious too, but unfortunately I think there's a pretty steep divide in terms of content between casual focus with weak gameplay and simplistic takes, versus cEDH that focuses on that particular meta. People taking a serious approach to exploring the depth of strategy within non-cEDH meta...basically nonexistent afaik. Which is a shame, because I think it pushes more people who enjoy getting deep into strategy towards cEDH, which is imo a much less interesting format.
Exactly this.

@toctheyounger I plan on making that sort of content, but from a hobbyist/informative perspective rather than a "content creator" perspective. I sincerely doubt I'll ever make YouTubing a day job even if I somehow become "successful."
I look forward to seeing it, friend. No rush of course, these things take time.
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Post by BeneTleilax » 1 year ago

I do prefer asymmetric synergy wraths like Citywide Bust or Duneblast, both because if they're too crushing, they just end the game and because they're more unique to each deck and playstyle. I somewhat dislike the more brutal exile wraths (Farewell) for taking a player out of the game without actually doing anything to kill them, so you can end up with someone scraping by for five turns waiting for a topdeck, which is just painful. That rarely happens unless that player overextends though.

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Post by duducrash » 1 year ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
1 year ago
toctheyounger wrote:
1 year ago
As far as casual content goes it seems to mostly focus on flash and production value rather than good gameplay.
Hit the nail on the head.

Which is fine, I guess? We all play this game to have fun, after all, but I've tired watching The Command Zone multiple times and get about five minutes into an episode before wanting to gouge my eyes out. There's just not a great intersection of competent casual EDH players and competent content creators. There is plenty of okay information out there in video form, but a lot of it is fluff and nonsense.

If I ever make my Treatise article into a video like I intend to do, it will be the best of its kind.
Have you ever been out drinking and someone ordered a fancy drink and some other people took a picture for their insta stories like it was theirs? Even though they are drinking vodka and red bull? I fee thats MTG content. Some sweet cards and strategies that do not really work IRL. Its mostly people doing their fancy stuff without interaction while taking on free mulligans to enable those strategies. The deck has to work for one game. While you are brewing and playing over and over with the deck, you want a consistent build, that isnt folded by 1 counter spell or a board wipe, you need to be able to recover from slow starts, which you will have since you are playing more matches. It makes building the deck much more nuanced.

But people dont like to see insta stories of what works, they like to see stories of nasty ass whiskey drinks

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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

I had a thought as regards the commander discourse on social media etc - I think a lot of the community is very fixated on CARDS. "Is this a good card?" "He won because he has that card." "I could finally be happy if wotc would reprint that card." I see this really strongly with my current playgroup that are very fixated on which cards are good and which are bad. Obviously that's important too, but far more important than evaluating good or bad cards in a vacuum, or having the strongest best most popular cards is thinking about the plan of your whole deck, and how you can make that plan work as reliably as possible.

Of course, the difficulty with making content about that is that every deck is going to be pretty unique. It's easy to say "X new card is a 7/10" but it's not so easy to talk about which roles a card can fill in which decks when there are thousands or millions of different commander decks.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

How to make your deck do what you want is something I rarely see discussed. It's all about these cards being goodstuff or good with your commander. Never about curve or opening hand fixing or whatever. No balancing of ramp and card draw, no thinking about sequencing of ramp or number and colors of lands to play.

I don't think I have once seen a commander deck article say "I need to make uu on turn 2 so I'm making sure I have 22 or so blue sources."

Deck construction is mostly with mana bases cut and pasted from other decks and heaps of popular cards with curves all over the place.

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Post by TheGildedGoose » 1 year ago

pokken wrote:
1 year ago
How to make your deck do what you want is something I rarely see discussed. It's all about these cards being goodstuff or good with your commander. Never about curve or opening hand fixing or whatever. No balancing of ramp and card draw, no thinking about sequencing of ramp or number and colors of lands to play.

I don't think I have once seen a commander deck article say "I need to make uu on turn 2 so I'm making sure I have 22 or so blue sources."

Deck construction is mostly with mana bases cut and pasted from other decks and heaps of popular cards with curves all over the place.
This is the kind of nuts and bolts deckbuilding I want to focus on. Less the specifics of "card X is good with commander Y" but basic statistical analysis and fundamentals that should be considered in every deck.

Honestly, I'm a little surprised to see this from you given your tepid response to my big ol' dumb deckbuilding post, considering what it actually focuses on. I'm going to do some more passes but it touches on quite a lot of this in a more general way at the moment but when I'm done it will get into the nitty gritty of things.

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Post by onering » 1 year ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 year ago
I used to be on the 2-4 boardwipe train, but statistically even 4 hardly gives you a statistical edge on drawing one with such limited numbers. Imho any control deck worth it salt needs at least 5-6 and perhaps as many as 9-10. It also doesn't help that I play in a fairly proactivity-heavy, intetaction-lite meta. I can't count on anyone else being able to reliably solve problems, so my numbers always skew heavier in that direction.

Anyway, I've played cedh and lived in the land of 1/2 hour games. It's duller than dirt. Give me a 3 hour battle over a bunch of quick, forgettable sudden death matches anyday.
I'd say it depends on the control deck. There are control decks that only care to answer boards when the board becomes a threat to them, and are content to let opponents stomp around so long as they stomp on each other. They may only need to wrath once in the entire game. And a deck that's drawing a lot of cards doesn't need that many wraths to get multiples.

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Post by JovialJovian » 1 year ago

The only time I feel bad or mad about any kind of board wipe (Armageddon included) is when it's played badly. Either it obviously tosses advantage to one player other than the one who played the wrath, or it just brings the game to a screeching halt with no follow-up plan.

I've been in many a game that really, REALLY needed a wrath, but nobody could find one.

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Post by void_nothing » 1 year ago

RowanKeltizar wrote:
1 year ago
One can always respond to wraths by including more protection spells or reanimation. I've been really liking Cauldron Haze.
JovialJovian wrote:
1 year ago
The only time I feel bad or mad about any kind of board wipe (Armageddon included) is when it's played badly. Either it obviously tosses advantage to one player other than the one who played the wrath, or it just brings the game to a screeching halt with no follow-up plan.

I've been in many a game that really, REALLY needed a wrath, but nobody could find one.
These are the right takes. If you want to be a really involved participant in the game you have a responsibility to check threats as well as to defend yourself. There are plenty of wacky budget answers to destruction-based board wipes - Wrap in Vigor is another.
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
1 year ago
This is the kind of nuts and bolts deckbuilding I want to focus on. Less the specifics of "card X is good with commander Y" but basic statistical analysis and fundamentals that should be considered in every deck.

Honestly, I'm a little surprised to see this from you given your tepid response to my big ol' dumb deckbuilding post, considering what it actually focuses on. I'm going to do some more passes but it touches on quite a lot of this in a more general way at the moment but when I'm done it will get into the nitty gritty of things.
I will have another read at some point but my initial impression was that you were a little higher level than I tend to want in deck building? Focus was a bit more on optimization of winning than optimization of experience.

I am less interested in 2 mana ramp and rhystic study than finding synergistic ways to make a deck function, but you did touch a bit on stuff I am interested in too like generic qualities/categorization of cards and understanding the numeric theory behind making an engine go brr





A think I have been really interested in these days is turning peoples staples into one card combos for me. A great example of that is all the sweepers. If everyone loads up on sweepers and I can overcommit to the board, invite a sweeper and then heroic intervention or wrap in vigor and use their sweeper as a wincon that is awesome. Build your own two player combo.

This is kind of the theory behind my breena deck which seeks to turn craterhoof into a combo win for me with things like inkshield and comeuppance.

I usually am playing more of these effects in my decks that would usually prefer not to sweep the board.

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Post by Serenade » 1 year ago

I see Heroic Intervention or Teferi's Protection in pretty much every game. I feel like I have to play MORE wraths now to overcome them, especially since I expect both cards to see future reprints. Not much you can do about the latter, but my current non-R/G "best wrath" selection tries to get around the former or at least hit as much as possible.

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Post by RxPhantom » 1 year ago

Regarding the tweet in the OP, I have seen a lot of content lately that values interaction and pinpoint removal over board wipes. I think you need both, personally. I'm hot and cold on PleasantKenobi specifically; I agree with many of his opinions but sometimes his general attitude becomes tedious. Overall, I'd say he's a net positive to the Magic community. Prof, though, I'll rep all day. I've been a patron for years. He's just so damn reasonable, and he's become the de facto advocate for players' interests.

I can't find any good Commander content lately. The Command Zone never says anything I don't know already, or their insights just don't add up. I also get the impression that they're convinced of their own importance. Of course, I'm a cynic so that surely plays a role. Their content is so bloated and self-congratulatory that I can barely watch. I love the production value, but I don't need the animations, interview segments, or ads. Unfortunately, nobody else does content even close to that level, or if they do, the participants themselves are painfully annoying (Commanders Quarters) or hopelessly dull (also Commander's Quarters).
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Post by TheGildedGoose » 1 year ago

I respect the Professor, but I don't like the Professor. He's a huge boon to the community, from his sleeve reviews to scathing critiques of Magic NFTs, but there's just something about his persona that is a little cringey to me. I won't go out of my way to say anything bad about him, really, but I don't watch his content unless it's directly relevant to my interests. He seems like a good guy, though.

Is this thread now drifting towards favorite content creators? Rhystic Studies is head and shoulders above the rest in terms of quality, but I also enjoy Spice8Rack for random Magic-related stuff and Brian Weissman for EDH gameplay.

EDIT: The Command Zone is the Critical Role of EDH gameplay.

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