Baldur's Gate review - what do you think?

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RowanKeltizar
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 1 year ago

There is so much going on in this set, I'm still trying to digest it. This is a discussion. I go back to these threads often when I'm looking at cards to pick up or try out in decks.

Despite the failure of the sealed product, I still think this set has an absolute truck ton of interesting and powerful commander cards as well as some appreciated albeit middle to low value reprints. I've personally dropped about $200 so far on singles and I honestly wish i had more to spend. There are just SO MANY objectively good commander cards here.

It's tragic because it would have been SO EASY to make this set a hit. There isn't much value in the mythic slot aside from the ultra illusive ancient metal dragons. All wotc needed to do was include some high dollar commander reprints in the mythic slot. Smothering Tithe, Dockside, and Jeweled Lotus could have absolutely been here IMO, The Fierce Guardianship / Deflecting Swat cycle is also due for a reprint and this would have been a good place for it with some showcase or borderless alt art variants.

How about the medallion cycle? Sapphire Medallion, Ruby Medallion etc... they are all getting pricey and would have looked awesome with the showcase art or in etched foil.

I think the showcase frame is pretty unique and cool. It's such a shame to me that the cards that got the treatment are all bulk. It would have been nice to see some high value cards printed with this treatment. The etched foil process also is started to look really appealing and I go for that if I want foils. But sadly so few of the cards I wanted from this set have an etched foil variant. Another shortcoming I think with the set's value.

Basically my theory is that these commander sets would be a lot more successful if they just included more actual high dollar commander reprints with new art and new frame treatments. Plenty of stuff to choose from that fits the flavor of the set I'm sure.


INITIATIVE: What do you think about the Initiative mechanic? I haven't played with it too much. Seems like a neat idea, but in practice I find it a bit tedious. Minigames just make already long game even longer.

BACKGROUDS I like the flavor. I almost wish there was a way to use these in the command zone with existing commanders but that would be power creep to the max. Seemed like the actual pairings were a bit weak. Needing to have essentially two commanders in play for your synergy to work seems fragile.


I actually got burnt out writing this list, so there are going to be a lot of cards missing. I'm only scratching the surface so chime in with your thoughts.


First, I want to get the ancient metal dragons out of the way:
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As a whole, I'm not really a fan. Main reason is that damage triggers are fairly hard to pull off in commander for cards like these where the effect is super splashy. None of them have built in evasion or protection other than flying, so the chances of these eating removal or getting chump blocked is high. I wish instead of a d20, it was a d10 or d8 or even a d6, but they all had a powerful keyword that helped them connect or stay on the field and to drop that mana cost down to 6 across the board. 8cmc is just too high for a creature like this. I'd rather have a less splashy effect at more a more efficient cost with a bit more staying power.

Ancient Copper Dragon - The red one (and the most expensive) is pretty broken no doubt. The mana cost is pushed and it's in a color that can grant haste and has Sneak Attack as well as multiple attack triggers on top of doublestrike enablers. Should be plenty of ways to cheat it into play and help it connect and connect more than once.

My alteration: P/T = 3/5 doublestrike, roll a d6

Ancient Brass Dragon - I think this one is pretty powerful. It's in a color that can reanimate it into play fairly reliably. I don't think you ever want to be paying its vanilla mana cost though.

my alteration: ward: discard 3 cards, roll a d10

Ancient Silver Dragon - drawing this many cards no doubt is a powerful effect. Blue can flash this into play and protect it from spot removal.

my alteration: flash, roll a d8

Ancient Gold Dragon - there are probably more efficient ways to make tokens in white, so I think I'll pass on this one.

my alteration: protection from creatures with lesser power, roll a d10

Ancient Bronze Dragon - might be able to ramp up to this, but I think it's limited in what it can do for a deck. Beatsticks aren't all that impressive to me. I wish this had trample.

my alteration: trample, roll a number of d6s equal to the damage dealt
WHITE

Legion Loyalty definitely an "I win the game" card. Makes me wish I had an Academy Rector. I guess if you can cheat this into play somehow it could be worth it. I will likely get a copy and just see what it can do for me.

Battle Angels of Tyr - I see this being an aggro staple for a LONG time. It's going in my Aurelia, the Warleader deck where I can get multiple attack triggers.

Archivist of Oghma - This is one of those cards that I question if we really needed. It seems to be autoinclude for basically any deck running white that's creature focused. Gets better the more competetive your meta is. I can't wait to run it against my friend's Karametra, God of Harvests deck.

Deep Gnome Terramancer - I see this being pretty darn good. If you can get even just one land from this, I think it's worth it.

Lae'zel, Vlaakith's Champion - seems phenomenal in the 99 of any counters deck

Cut a Deal - pretty nice budget draw here

Lae'zel's Acrobatics - someone appealing, but probably too costly compared to other mass blink effects.

Abdel Adrian, Gorion's Ward - combo potential here


BLUE

Aboleth Spawn - could be a sleeper. I think it's pretty interesting personally

Gale, Waterdeep Prodigy - insane value for a spellslinger list leaning toward creature effects

Displacer Kitten yeah, whats not to love here?

Robe of the Archmagi - are there blue equipment decks?

BLACK

Black Market Connections - not as many black cards on my list, but this one makes the cut. How many black lifegain decks are there? If you have a way to double tokens, then I think this gets really crazy.

RED

Balor - this guy has some pretty insane value. I would be interested if it were just an ETB, but a death trigger is arguably better in this format. On top of that, it triggers on attack. 5cmc for these effects I think is pretty pushed

Wrathful Red Dragon - autoinclude for dragon deck? Even thinking about running it in Kaalia

Descent into Avernus - i can see some decks really breaking this card

Wild Magic Surge - another mono red catch all removal is more than welcome. Probably going to try this in Niv.

Passionate Archaeologist - I think this is my favorite background in the set and the one I'd consider running in the 99 if I had a deck that could abuse this. Pako, Arcane Retriever and Haldan, Avid Arcanist is the ideal place for this. It will trigger twice. I could see Prosper, Tome-Bound liking this too.

GREEN

Monster Manual // Zoological Study- I think my Blightsteel with enjoy this.

Barroom Brawl - looking forward to trying this one out. It's just a fun card.

MULTICOLORED

there are a ton a decent commanders from this set. None of them compell me to build a deck however, but truly there is probably something for everyone.

Mahadi, Emporium Master - again, i can see this finding its way into a lot of decks. pretty linear effect, but it is ramp for rakdos!

Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm - great for just about any dragon deck, or as a commander itself

Elminster - my friend built a deck around this guy and seems to play well.

Tasha, the Witch Queen that top ability seems like a good build around ability. Not a fan of walkers in the command zone personally


COLORLESS

Vexing Puzzlebox - likely a niche card, but I can see it finding a home in a deck that is already flipping a lot of coins.

Nautiloid Ship - this thing seems pretty good. graveyard exile with an upside in colorless feels strong

Fraying Line - pretty neat card and i could see it getting some play just for the fun aspect. Generally, though I prefer my board wipes to be usable the turn i cast them. this is a pretty long standing weakness of colorless removal.
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Igzex
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Post by Igzex » 1 year ago

As a dragon tribal player...woah goodness. Thanks for making my Ur-Dragon deck have such an overwhelming identity crisis I have yet to even get around to updating it. Let's see what we got...

The mone-I mean Metal Dragons: Eh. Overhyped. Cool if you pull their effects off but I'm just reminded of why I despise Balefire Dragon: It does nothing most of the time. Even if I am lucky enough to have haste support on board, 3 other people are freaking out like I put an actual bomb on the table the moment I summon one and will throw out their kill spell pronto. I have yet to get any real mileage out of any of them even the Copper one. How is that more expensive than Old Gnawbone, a card that doesn't even need to land a hit?! Kaalia of the Vast players are probably getting a kick out of the ones they can use though.

Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm: :love: :love: :love: (Though I'm still not used to the board states I can make with her. I have gotten to the point where I seriously dug up my TI calculator to bring with me to games where I play her as my commander.)

Carnelian Orb of Dragonkind. Jade Orb of Dragonkind, and Lapis Orb of Dragonkind: Have been currently trying them in Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm. Jade is easily the best while Lapis is kind of just whatever IMO. 3 mana for a single mana producing rock still kinda sucks though.

The Adventure dragons: Crystal is probably the only one that would make it past a draft deck for me. Well, I guess Sapphire is also kind of alright because the counter spell half having only 1 of its mana require blue is cool for multicolor decks.

Thrakkus the Butcher: Doubling my damage output is pretty important when I have a collective life total of 120 to chew through. Really fun when he sees Miirym on his way to the battlefield.

Ganax, Astral Hunter: Ok for an uncommon this card can get pretty stupid surprisingly fast. The hardest worker for me in this set thus far.

Wrathful Red Dragon: Nice to have around but let's be real, your dragons are not that likely to take damage. What usually happens to them is Despark and Fell the Mighty. Of course you can always just damage them yourself, right Rolling Earthquake?

Earthquake Dragon: I guess hitting for a lot could be fun in its own right but the thing that make dragons fun to play with are their cool effects. Compare what it does to Utvara Hellkite or, actually, Inferno of the Star Mounts. Now that's how you make a pure Timmy dragon.

Korlessa, Scale Singer: Cool I can keep dragons off the top of my library where people can steal them. No seriously can the card designer with the Ornate Kanzashi fetish please stop giving people dozens of things to bully me with every expansion?

Lozhan, Dragons' Legacy: Reminds me that I probably need to run more dragons in a dragon tribal deck.

Renari, Merchant of Marvels: Honestly I consider cards like Vedalken Orrery something that Game Knights make look better than they actually are so yeah I'm not in a rush to slot this card in either.

Swashbuckler Extraordinaire: Really gotta find room to try this card out. It seems like it can be surprisingly deadly.

Dragonborn Looter: ...And here is a valid reason for me to want to run a higher dragon count. We have this little buddy to help Unbrick my hand.

Lurking Green Dragon: I'm pretty sure this is also one of the creatures I have to sacrifice with Kyscu Drake to summon Viashivan Dragon from my deck.

Skanos Dragonheart: About as good as Dragonheart: Fire and Steel

Patron of the Arts: That painting actually depicts her making out with Magda, Brazen Outlaw and she's stealing it before too many people see it.

Reckless Barbarian and Bhaal's Invoker: Is this a warning sign that they are slowly trying to make dragons a combo deck in pauper?

Livaan, Cultist of Tiamat: No amount of devotion will ever make a successfully resolved Tiamat choose you, let alone make anyone even want to include you in a deck to fetch you out of.

Stirring Bard: Oh no it's the DMPC Scaly waifu character. That's where the haste and menace actually comes in. The creature is running in horror at ungodly speeds and is constantly emitting blood curdling screams as they desperately try to avoid being railroaded into her story.

Scaled Nurturer: Wish they added red mana to my pool but hey, it costs 1 in The Ur-Dragon so that's still cool.

Silvanus's Invoker: Oh you're totally not running this card to keep me distracted with laughter while you dig for a Basalt Monolith combo somewhere in your deck.

Ambitious Dragonborn: Is he shrugging in that card art because honestly yeah I agree.

Avenging Hunter: Nobody's remembering you either as you fester in the chaff box, pal.

Draconic Muralists: Plot twist: Their ancestor is Viashivan Dragon.

Nimbleclaw Adept: Probably more useful than it looks. I intentionally leave this out of my Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm though. I do not trust its failsafe to prevent accidental infinites. Yeah my playgroup that gets kinda upset at infinites.

Pseudodragon Familiar: I feel like running this in a dragon tribal deck is considered trolling by most.

Juvenile Mist Dragon: More like confounding why anyone would take this beyond draft.

Oceanus Dragon: Firkraag would plan out a hit on you if you even attempted to "upgrade" his precon with this card.

Chardalyn Dragon: .

Firkraag, Cunning Instigator: Tempted to make a commander deck with him. I just love the idea of giving people tokens with cards like Hunted Dragon, Hunted Phantasm, and Forbidden Orchard and watching my opponents being forced to murder each other with them.

Astral Dragon: One of my favorite cards ever. There is never a moment where it won't do the funniest nonsense.

Brainstealer Dragon: ...Is that Ornate Kanzashi fetishist card designer taunting me?

Acolyte of Bahamut: Not a dragon creature card but hahaha oh man what an awful piece of dragon support. Partner with Ganax to make "Oops no rares: Dragons edition" if I were to ever lose all semblance of sanity and be overcome with an intense desire to run my foes over with Hellkite Punisher I guess.

Raphael, Fiendish Savior: I need to talk about this card because it won't stop f'n stalking me in drafts and I opened his alt art version twice in the commander deck's sample boosters. I have 17 of him because my friends have also been slipping their copies of him into my backpack when I'm not looking. Is making a commander deck around him the only way to free myself from his curse?

*sigh* I can finally die. *Falls over*

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DirkGently
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Cut a Deal is bad. You're only up +1 card relative to the table after casting, which is Divination. Early it's worse since your opponents can use the cards first. Late it's better since you can probably cast them on the same turn. Except that late, people might be dead. Or you might just be doing a 3p game from the start. Either situation making it pretty much worthless.

I mean, compare to Syphon Mind. You draw the same, but everyone else discards instead of draws. And it only costs 1 more.

White isn't THAT hard up for draw.
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RowanKeltizar
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
Cut a Deal is bad. You're only up +1 card relative to the table after casting, which is Divination. Early it's worse since your opponents can use the cards first. Late it's better since you can probably cast them on the same turn. Except that late, people might be dead. Or you might just be doing a 3p game from the start. Either situation making it pretty much worthless.
I think this might have a spot in a political/hug type of deck, or just budget mono white. That said, I don't plan on running it for the reasons you stated. For 3 mana we can definitely do better even in mono white. Archivist of Oghma is just not even a comparison... but if I were building mono white on a budget I might consider it.
Igzex wrote:
1 year ago
As a dragon tribal player...woah goodness. Thanks for making my Ur-Dragon deck have such an overwhelming identity crisis I have yet to even get around to updating it. Let's see what we got...
Yeah, i noticed all the dragon support cards. Definitely made me want to build a dragon tribal deck, and Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm is a great choice. Firkraag, Cunning Instigator is possibly another non-5 color commander that could be built around.
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Post by Sinis » 1 year ago

Overview: I like this set. I loved the themes and flavour, I was already a huge fan of partner, so seeing the Choose a Background mechanic that doesn't break existing partner really revs my engine. I think the dragon cycle is pretty fine/great; some are not as powerful as others, but I think if the red or blue ones roll above 5, you're looking at what could be an insurmountable advantage. The low EV of the set sits fine with me. The fact of the matter is, if the EV is so incurably low, it means the singles are going to be dirt cheap, right? Okay, so, let's have some dirt cheap singles. I spent a lot on this set despite the fact that you can get some mythics for less than a dollar on release. I'm also happy to see multiplayer scaling mechanics like Myriad return to print.

For my favourite picks, I'll skip over what I think is super obvious (with some exceptions because comments have to be made):

The Good White Cards™ (Battle Angels of Tyr, Archivist of Oghma, Deep Gnome Terramancer). These are just obviously good and intended to bring White up to par in EDH. As a habitual White-is-bad naysayer, I'm very interested to see how these cards impact White's ability to play the game. I'm optimistic about them. These are the hot singles, and I'm glad I pre-ordered a few at a reasonable price, and cracked a pair of Archivists in my prerelease kit and taster boosters in my commander decks.

Githzerai Monk: I'm not sure this card is amazing or anything, but I'm sure flickering it will be annoying. I feel like Flash really sells this, since it's possible to buy time as a fog, or to use on an opponent's end step to facilitate an alpha strike.

Lae'zel's Acrobatics: I think this card is good in a blink focused deck, but is probably not spectacular elsewhere. It's worth noting that there are more and more of these effects, but once upon a time you were limited entirely to Ghostway (which is now expensive), and Eerie Interlude. It's probably on par with Semester's End.

Horn of Valhalla // Ysgard's Call: I'm pretty sure this card is junk, but I really like it. Just, kinda does stuff?

Font of Magic: If you're playing partners or Backgrounds, this can be an easy 2-mana discount. That's definitely significant.

Robe of the Archmagi: I feel like the tribal part of this card sets it back, but it would be absolutely nuts if you could just equip it willy-nilly.

Wizards of Thay: If font of Magic gives a steep discount, this card seems like it could do incredible work.

Altar of Bhaal // Bone Offering: This feels just fine. I like the active, I like the adventure. In the early stages of the game, the 4/1 Skeleton can do real work.

Wyll, Blade of Frontiers: I like all the Choose/Background cards, but I especially appreciate this card's design. People who wanted to build dice rolling decks were previously stuck with Vrondiss or Farideh, both of whom are pretty meh (Farideh is actually atrociously awful). Wyll, however, brings a whole new dimension to rice rolling games: The ability to play any r/x colour. Blue happens to have the most dice rolling cards, but if you wanted to pair it with white or black, you could with an appropriate background. Additionally, Wyll's static ability is a really good thing to have when you plan on rolling lots of dice.

Earthquake Dragon: Despite the should-have-been-red flavour fail, I think this card is really cool. It really appeals to the Timmy in me.

I think more than anything, there are solid roleplayers in this set for a lot of archetypes. There's some cool pieces for self-mill, dragons, dungeons with Take the Initiative, and tools for spellslinger/flashback like Sailors' Bane. The set has its share of stinkers, but, I think most of it is playable or interesting.

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Post by TheGildedGoose » 1 year ago

I love the backgrounds and choose a background commanders so much. They're generally pretty balanced and allow a degree of customization that partners give without being completely busted. Instead of 9 cards in hand, it's still virtually 8 since the backgrounds only work with the commander in play.

On the other hand, making them so commander-centric is annoying since every piece of removal is effectively a 2-for-1, but if you account for that in deck construction it's not so bad. I never thought I'd put Fight as One in a deck, but here we are.

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Post by Gentle Giant » 1 year ago

I'll add some more card-specific thoughts to this post later on, but for now: this set is amazing (and I'm including the new commander cards in that assessment, because they're as much a part of it as the booster set itself). I get that people want reprints, people always want reprints, ideally for free in their morning cereal to boot. But if you look past that, or, like me, are more interested in new design space and enriching existing themes, this is what a commander legends set should be: fun, flavourful, interesting, and some seriously strong cards for mid to low-level play.

This makes it all the more sad to see the obvious knee-jerk reaction to the 2x2 spoilers having all much-wanted reprints and content creators gleefully jumping in with "what went wrong with baldur's gate?".

Nothing went wrong: Commander legends 1 also had a lot of stuff high power players consider chaff. If anything, this set provides a more coherent theme and more interesting new mechanics (like the new partners did in the previous iteration). Sometimes I wish that people would realize that this format allows for so much more if you just let go of the FOMO of needing to have a dockside.
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Post by BaronCappuccino » 1 year ago

When Adventures in the Forgotten Realms was released, I went all in on a mono black Dungeons & Dragons deck. Of course, one set with all new mechanics doesn't really make a cohesive deck. I needed Baldur's Gate. I bought something like 13 cards from it. Of course, even using Gatherer to find every black and colorless card with the keywords: initiative, party, roll, venture, & warlock, I still needed a sub-theme of clue, food, & treasure, which actually became the win-condition (Sivriss, Nightmare Speaker / Agent of the Iron Throne artifact token aristocrats) to fill out the deck. Initiative is a clunky mechanic like monarch that I normally wouldn't use, but it's on theme here and I never win anyway. Losing with style is very easy, as "pimping out" with all the D&D manual art alt prints are currently affordable, so I was able to buy best prints of everything. Seeing characters from the various Baldur's Gate computer games is icing on the cake. I'm happy with the set. I needed it. Hoping for more. The difference between my current deck and one that wins is more D&D sets and power creep.

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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

RowanKeltizar wrote:
1 year ago
I think this might have a spot in a political/hug type of deck, or just budget mono white. That said, I don't plan on running it for the reasons you stated. For 3 mana we can definitely do better even in mono white. Archivist of Oghma is just not even a comparison... but if I were building mono white on a budget I might consider it.
It's not political. You can't influence the way your opponents play when it doesn't give you any way to control what resources you're giving them. "Hug", sure, but that's not an actual strategy, just a collection of similar effects.

Unless you're sub-precon power level AND you know you're playing exclusively 4p games, this isn't even in consideration imo.
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Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

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Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by Jemolk » 1 year ago

It's fine, generally speaking. Some decent cards. Ancient Silver Dragon and Ancient Gold Dragon are absolutely going to go in Scion dragon toolbox reanimator, where I fully expect them to put in work. The Ancient Copper Dragon, meanwhile, I could hardly care less about. Of my three dragon tribal decks, Karrthus and Scion have Old Gnawbone, and Zirilan just runs mana doublers.

In terms of other things, I just got back from doing a draft of the set, and the initiative was a blast to play with. Not super thrilled about much else, though.
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Oh yeah, kinda forgot about Scion of the Ur-Dragon but he got some insane tools this set. I guess he was always kind of a must-kill target though.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6

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Post by Jemolk » 1 year ago

Scion is very strong, yes. Doubly so if you include combos, though I avoid them like the plague. Don't usually cast him until I can hold up mana to activate him the same turn cycle, because transforming him into Dragonlord Ojutai or Silumgar, the Drifting Death to dodge removal can be huge. He is indeed a removal magnet, and for good reason. Most dragons are, honestly.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

My overall take on this set was along these lines:

1) For the love of god stop making stupid OP cards that have no niche or build behind to them. Sure, I think white could use some ramp and some draw but what the actual %$#% are these white hatebears. (2/10)
2) Backgrounds - I think this is probably fine but I also think that parter and partners with is a mechanic that can get very ugly very fast. I don't think this is really over the top but I also have a little fear every time they do this sort of mechanic because it feels like its either a slam dunk best thing you can possibly be doing or not really that viable. I think they ended up probably a little under powered which means its fine but I am again a little annoyed with this sort of mechanic even though I think it can be sweet I want to see it a HELL of a lot less than we apparently see it. (1/10)
3) Mythic Dragons - I think this mythic dragon cycle is bad and these cards are ridiculously over priced. This is not me saying that there are no places they belong but in my opinion they are $5 cards tops but I also acknowledge this is secondary market pricing and not wizards but that said they printed them at mythic which made this issue. (1/10)
4) Legendary Creatures - I think that there are a number of legends to this set that are actually interesting and I don't see any specific one offhand (haven't played with it much) that I am concerned with. So... I guess this is a good thing as it opens up more legends but isn't really creating problems that I have yet found. (4/10 I am only putting this as a low rating because we aren't hurting for legends with their outrageous print speed and the number of legends we get per set. In my day and age you would get like 1-3 new legends in a set and be happy)
5) F Gates - I just never ever want to see someone play Maze's End and this new set just put a very large increased chance for me to have to deal with it. I haven't seen one yet but I also think one is too many. (1/10)
6) Initiative - I really really dislike their implimentation of this mechanic. I don't think its all that constructed playable outside of a few of the new legends that interact with it but really my issue is why the hell didn't they just add another dungeon into the existing mechanic and expand the dungeon mechanic cards rather than kick this super weird sidekick mechanic out. I hate this just freaking expand dungeons there was literally zero need for this new side grade dungeon mechanic. (1/10)

Overall, I am fairly low on the set as a whole. There are some new white things that I felt obligated to pick up and it pisses me off how dumb they are. They are really unhealthy design and while I agree that white needs more help they need to do it in a way that feels more white and like something where I have to fit specific archetypes for things. I really hate must play card staples and I don't think that its particularly healthy what they have done with the flash hatebears. The only real positive thing I can say is that a few of the legends from the set are kind of cool but I can't really say much more positively on this set. My overall take on the set is probably a 2/10 and I mostly just wish it didn't exist.
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Post by Crazy Monkey » 1 year ago

I'm not 100% certain if it was just timing or that I'm just that big a D&D nerd, but Baldur's gate got my deckbuilding brain going again after a somewhat significant lull. I'd been just updating decks, but between having a blast drafting it and brainstorming some new theme decks I have more decks planned from this set than anything since Eldraine (including the commander decks). It's the first time since I reached my deck storage capacity in my carrying cases that I've had to decide which decks to disassemble more than once at a time.

I'm definitely a big fan of backgrounds. They hit the sweet spot for me as build-around limited mechanics. I'm also very glad for the background mechanic being limited to two color decks. The partner mechanic was so open ended and multicolored that I tend to avoid it in deck construction. I suspect that each draft-able commander set will have some variant of background/partner in order to make color identity functional during draft, so as long as they keep the scope limited I'll remain on board with the mechanic.

The actual cards in the set are interesting, but not earthshattering. It's a bit weird that the chase cards are high MV dragons that need to deal combat damage, because they're just big removal/chump block magnets. The other chase cards are...upgraded Phyrexian Arena and some really pushed white card advantage/ramp. They're good for what they do, but not pushed in the way Hullbreacher was. I'm 100% on board with that as the status quo. Also, the focus on myriad as a mechanic in general is also great for more traditional aggro decks, and I'm glad that they're exploring cards in that design space. The combat level politics of the Monarchy, and now The Initiative are always a neat dynamic that tends to speed games along when they may otherwise stall in the lower powered game space. Having another benefit to pass around and make agreements about has been good.

Overall, the mechanics aren't transformative, but reasonable and well supported. I can agree that the gates deck + mazes end isn't something I'm enthralled to play against because most decks at the appropriate power levels aren't running land disruption, but the player still needs to land 10 gates. Outside of Nine-Fingers Keene the clock is obvious enough that the gates player will likely encounter archenemy and player removal, as is more common response to threats in those types of games.

If I had to call out a single card that I think is being undervalued, it's Illithid Harvester // Plant Tadpoles as a flicker target. I think everyone can agree that long-term commander removal can be difficult in most colors. Flicker this with Frost Titan or something and they can't even attack with the 2/2s. It also works with goad and Bedlam effects. Yes, it can be a bit difficult to enable; but I've had some serious success with Ixidron and this is a more precise version.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

I have mixed feelings about Baldur's Gate. The power level definitely feels lower, so there aren't quite as many cards I want for my decks... but on the other hand, I'm glad that it isn't forcing a pseudo-rotation on the format, and there aren't any new Hullbreachers or other generically powerful staples. The new mechanics (like backgrounds and initiative) feel weaker than their earlier counterparts (partners and monarch)... but given that those mechanics were sort of broken, maybe that's for the best? Hmmm....

Similarly, the standout mythic cycle of the set are the ancient dragons, and I appreciate what they do for the format - I like pushing it in a more battlecruiser-y direction, instead of the current emphasis on ETB creatures and guaranteed value. On the other hand, I'm not convinced the dragons are actually playable outside decks with a ton of access to haste - it's hard to justify running a 6-7 mana creature that your opponents want to kill on sight, and doesn't generate any unless it gets to attack. This means that they feel a little too weak if you're playing them fairly... but absolutely broken if you're using Sneak Attack or another unfair strategy, which isn't a thing I really want to promote. Hmmmm.......

....ultimately, I think my biggest complaint with the set is the lack of reprints. I assume it's because they wanted to print more D&D-specific cards, or they felt that MTG cards may not make sense in the D&D setting... but I really would have appreciated if the prices of all the various staples were brought down a bit. Instead we have Dockside Extortionist and Smothering Tithe showing up in Double Masters, which is firmly in 'no, seriously, but why?' territory. The rate at which WotC prints new cards feels sort of overwhelming these days, so I would really like an affordable reprint-heavy set to let me catch up on all the cards I've missed.

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Post by MaritLage » 1 year ago

Well , and i mean , especially with the recent revelations that WotC is a privately-traded subsidiary of the publicly traded Hasbto , and that Hasbro is a subsidiary of Disney , and with Hasbro and Disney both lost 20-40% of their stock market valuations in 2022 (while , as a result of the pandemic , a new billionaire has been created every 30 hours) , that the focus for Wizards of the Coast has changed from providing realistic depictions of Magic for its hardcore player base , to throwing out tendrils of sticky sap to snare Whales and Collectors who find that $60 for a set of 4 Commemorative Tokens is within their usual Beanie-Babies and POP! Figurines budgets .

The art , the mechanics , all of it has taken a back seat to these cash grabs , and , with 1200 unique cards - a new record -printed in the past one year alone , the mechanics have been screeching in torsion while the art style is , well , mutating , at a minimum , if not degenerating outright .
Please do not spread misinformation about WotC or its parent company Hasbro. Hasbro is not a subsidiary of Disney. They work closely together and partner on many things, particularly toys and action figures, but Hasbro is not owned by Disney. - benjameenbear
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Post by TheGildedGoose » 1 year ago

MaritLage wrote:
1 year ago
WotC is a privately-traded subsidiary of the publicly traded Hasbto
This is not a recent revelation.
Hasbro is a subsidiary of Disney
This is false.

Of all the numbers of things to criticize WotC and Hasbro for, appealing to whales is way down on my priority list. If those, uh, unwise people want to subsidize my expenses by driving down the prices of normal cards, I'm okay with it. I, for one, think design has picked up tremendously over the past year after a long period of balance issues and stagnation.

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Post by MaritLage » 1 year ago

TheGildedGoose wrote:
1 year ago
MaritLage wrote:
1 year ago
WotC is a privately-traded subsidiary of the publicly traded Hasbto
This is not a recent revelation.
I was talking about the quite erratic ups and downs on Hasbro·s continued downward trend from approx. $100 per market share at the start of 2022 to its current power base at 85 . Even if you want to factor out the horizontal cross-promotional influences (during UB season? seriously?) of cultual giants like {CDProjektRed (180.00/s to 94.98) , Netflix (600.00/s to 189.14) , Disney (150.00/s to 96.61)} , the severity of the peaks and troughs that WotC·s parent-controller is going through belies a suspicious disparity to the wanton displays of affluence in the recent TreasureToken-heavy expansions .

(That·s all in right English right ! English is not my first language , ok !)
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Post by RowanKeltizar » 1 year ago

I'm honestly a bit surprised at the wildly differing opinions about the set. All the way from "I hate it and I wish it didn't exist" to "it reignited my spark for deckbuilding"

I do agree that the white cards are probably too pushed, especially for competetive play, but they are all creatures which are a lot easier to remove. They are also static effects and not etbs, so you have time to deal with them before they get too out of hand. Case in point: I had a chance to play Battle Angels of Tyr and it got immediately Pathed, which was probably a good thing to do because I was about to equip it with Helm of the Host and I wasn't looking forward to doing math. Oh and this was in my Aurelia, the Warleader deck!

Ok, lets work it out anyway: First attack: helm copies angels, four tokens are created, then exiled. Second attack, helm makes another copy, 6 tokens are created, then exiled. At end of turn I have 2 Helm copies + the original. 24dmg on the first attack, and 36dmg on the second?

I also agree that the ancient dragons suffer from a lack of creativity and are probably not worth the price tag.

There's definitely a trend of power creep in the last few years, combined with the rate at which we get sets, that means a lot of powerful cards coming to the format. More than anything I see the creatures getting pushed harder and harder. Not sure if that's a good thing or not really. It does make me a bit sad to see cards become obsolete. One reason I've been inspired to build ultra budget decks recently just to test my deckbuilding skills and play with cards I wouldn't otherwise choose to play with.
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

On my assessment its also worth noting that I am strongly against additional printing of sets outside of pure reprint sets from a straight to commander perspective. I wish they would go back to a 4 sets a year with very little focus on commander as a focus in their printing as I feel that there has been enormous power creep of magic in the last 10 years mostly due to the focused printing for this format. The speed of the format has increased in leaps and bounds if you look at this format in the last 10 years considering that the game is what almost 30 years old at this point. I have been playing commander for over 12 years at this point and while I accept its part of the game I don't think that spamming more product has been remotely healthy even when they try to real in the power of the product they still come out with a few crazy powerful rare / mythics per set that push the game to be faster and faster.

My issues with this set are probably 80% just in that I don't think they should be going the path they are which is more and more straight to commander cards and a lot of them are not even narrow niche card roleplayers. Anything that is mono color and busted as hell without build around is a huge negative for me.
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

@Gentle Giant I agree about people focusing too much on reprints, but I do think there were a couple big mistakes in this set:

1) Backgrounds are cool and fun for constructed applications, but they were a bit of a flop for draft imo. I think commander legends ended up being surprisingly easy to build with a synergistic combination that fit nicely with cards in your deck. Needing an A + B pair makes it a lot harder to get a match with your primary colors - once you have a background in one color, now the ONLY thing that will complete your deck is a legend in the other, or vice versa. I've ended up getting stranded several times and being forced to run nameless one because I couldn't get a match for my background or legend, even though I was seeing plenty of cards that were the same type or color. I also felt like (and this is mostly a gut feeling since I haven't really analyzed the sets) a lot fewer cards fit strongly into archetypes, and I had a much harder time building a nicely synergistic deck.

2) On the constructed side, I haaaate initiative. I'm not a huge fan of monarch either, but initiative adds SO much complexity. If anyone, at any point during the game plays an initiative card, that means each player is going to need the stupid dungeon card and needs to track their dungeon for the rest of the game no matter what anyone else does. I found dungeons to be a fairly silly mechanic to begin with, but at least when they were isolated to decks that intended to play them it wasn't a big deal. But with initiative it's trivial to force everyone to play the dungeon game.

Not sure what people on YouTube etc are commenting on, but for me those were the 2 big mistakes of the set. 1 makes me kinda medium on drafting it (whereas CMR is one of the most fun draft experiences I've ever had) and 2 means I'm not a big fan of the cards being used for constructed either.

The flavor is really mediocre to me too - I don't find it offensive exactly, but it feels so vanilla compared to magic's usual flavor. It's like we've entered the archetype of the generic fantasy universe.

Oh yeah, and I agree with @ISBPathfinder about gates. Maze's end is such an obnoxious card.

As far as whether the set should exist at all, I think CMR justified itself by being a really really good draft experience. This set wasn't nearly as good so I'm less charitable towards it in that regard. But I find it a lot less objectionable then the deluge of commander precons we get. In the span of a couple years we went from 4-5 precons every year to getting 2-5 precons every set - including supplemental sets that were already focused on commander! And all of them have tons of pushed new commander cards! Yeesh.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan

Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
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Post by 5colorsrainbow » 1 year ago

I liked they had adventures for me to finish up the deck and even a more in theme replacement for Chulane. Definitely think the first CL was better fine but I think this set was fine enough.
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Post by Venedrex » 1 year ago

Well from what I saw on Blogatog's comment section, Maro's State of Design article will no doubt say that the most disliked portion of the set was the lack of reprints. It was overwhelming represented in the comments, and everywhere else I've seen. I agree that the set should have had more. CL3 is prolly just going to be 50% staple reprints which sounds pretty good to me, assuming they listen to feedback.
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Post by duducrash » 1 year ago

I think its a perfectly fine set. Its just a regular magic set, it isn't overpowered, it isnt pushed. Clean, fair mtg. I am amazed at how much the general magic online talk is arround power creep and how much stuff is pushed nowadays only to have a perfectly normal set where regular EDH players get access to commander specific cards.

I love the theme and the cards.

I dislike / initiative instead of venture into the dungeon, I dislike the low ammount of adventure cards.

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Post by materpillar » 1 year ago

I don't build new decks a whole lot and none of them partner/backgrounds spoke to me at all. They're all pretty cool though and I don't mind them being around.

For me it's just weird that there weren't reprints of old staples whose prices are going through the roof and that those are all in double masters. This set doesn't feel like a commander product. It feels like baulder's gate 2 a set that's been released right before Commander Double Masters. I think if it hadn't been tied to commander reception would have been a lot more popular.

Also, I dislike initiative quite a lot.

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