...so, I lied. I built another deck. UG Legendary Dragonsong!

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Post by Diz » 1 year ago

I was looking at the previews for the new Forgotten Realms set and I was struck by how much I really liked Korlessa, Scale Singer. If Dragons had more good UG stuff, I'd consider her for a Commander, but first, I decided to try my hand at Casual-60, as I felt I'd get the most out of her, that way.

Without further ado,
Legendary Dragonsong
Approximate Total Cost:

My initial instinct was to fall back on the strategy that my UG Stompy employed for ramping purposes - Explore, Growth Spiral, and so forth. However, I realized that if this deck ended up in the person I had in mind's hands, they wouldn't like that strategy - so, I decided to go the simple route of Rampant Growth + the two Growth Enchantments I included, with a bit of mana dorkage and the two Dragon's Hoard. (Does Kinnan count as ramp? Incidentally, that person did not want the deck, so, it's mine to keep.) It's not meant to be a spectacular deck, by any means, and I suspect it'll be boring to play - but this is what came to mind to build when I saw Korlessa, so, I threw it together in an evening! Will post results when I get around to being able to test it.

See thread for changes and reasoning.
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Post by Diz » 1 year ago

So uh. I somehow forgot Descendants' Path in this list. I'm thinking I'll cut a Jugan Defends and a Dragon's Hoard for two of them?

Edit: That's what we're going with, because why not.

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Post by Diz » 1 year ago

Aaand I realized I accidentally included the wrong enchantments.

I picked up playsets of Fertile Ground, Utopia Sprawl, and Wild Growth because I wanted the enchantments to be acceleration, not color fixing. On that note, of the three, which two would probably play best, in place of Abundant and Unbridled? I'm seriously leaning towards the 1-drops.

I also grabbed a third Descendants' Path (SUPER strong with the Kamigawa "when ~ dies" dragons), and a playset of Simic Signet. If I were to completely take the Dragon's Hoard and Jugan Defends out, what would take the place of the second card (the first is getting replaced with the third Path)? Another Kinnan, perhaps?

I found Tanazir to be rather underwhelming. Any time I could play him, I didn't have anything with +1/+1 counters to double. A possibility:

-4 Abundant Growth
-4 Unbridled Growth
-2 Tanazir Quandrix
-1 Dragon's Hoard
-1 Jugan Defends the Temple

+4 Utopia Sprawl?
+4 Wild Growth?
+1 Descendants' Path
+1 Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
+2 Simic Signet

I'm also not opposed to bumping some of my dragons up to 3 copies, or even make one of them a playset. If I were to do so, which would be most recommended? Probably Keiga and Kairi, right?

Thoughts on these potential changes?

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

supporting the use of Utopia Sprawl and Wild Growth. Sprawl is a competitive card, I've used it for a long time in modern Ponza. Wild Growth I've only used in casual decks, slightly less good, but should be acceptable since it also only cost 1 cmc.

agreed on the removal of Dragon's Hoard. Feels like a win more card.

about the ramp.. a set of birds, a set of sprawl, set of wild growth, and set of rampant growth. Feels like there's too much ramp. No need for signets imo. every ramp card drawn mid game is a dead draw when you have enough mana already. Suggesting to have harmonize or Nissa, Steward of Elements in those two slots instead, so the deck can have more gas during the mid game.

surviving while waiting for the big guys to come out feels like a problem for this deck. Well, it's casuals, decks are not so fast.,. should be fine I guess.

have you already tested this against other casual decks?
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Post by Diz » 1 year ago

Yeah, the idea is to have the two mana acceleration enchantments immediately playable, along with the dork; Kinnan is there to buff the latter's abilities even more, as well as cheat things out, and also the reason I was considering the Signets.

It's super easy for this deck to be able to get out a Descendants' Path with a Korlessa on the board in the early game, resulting in super quick bigger d00dz.

Actually...I kinda like the suggestion of Harmonize. I'll look into how things play when the new stuff arrives and determine how things feel from there, with regards to whether I should pick any up, and, if so, how many.

Additional thought: What if I include Temple of Mystery in lieu of 2 of the Isle and 2 of the Grove? The scry ability might help me get more value out of Path.

I actually played it against a Second Sun Pioneer deck! They won one, and I won the next.

Thanks for the feedback!

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

yeah, it's possible to take out 2 isle and 2 grove to add a set of temple of mystery. I know this is casual, but if Breeding Pool is allowed.. I do suggest removing the other 2 isle and 2 grove for a set of breeding pool.. the reason for this is to reduce the times that Utopia Sprawl get stuck in opening hand. Sprawl needs forest to be cast, and pool counts as a forest, -4 isle -4 grove +4 temple +4 Breeding Pool

and I highly suggest removing all Birds of Paradise, to be replaced with Arbor Elf. The elf is a combo with sprawl or wild growth. Turn 1 land play elf, turn two land cast sprawl on untapped land.. tap sprawl land to add two mana to mana pool, use elf ability to untap sprawled land to add two more mana to mana pool = 4 mana produced on turn two. -4 Birds +4 Arbor Elf

congrats on winning against a Pioneer deck. :)
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Post by Diz » 1 year ago

...yeah, I guess if it plays well enough as-is when the new stuff comes in, there's no reason I can't also upgrade it with Temples and Breeding Pools. Thanks for the recommendation!

So the problem with replacing Birbs with Elf is that there is less for Kinnan to proc off of...but I'll give it some thought.

Also, thanks!

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

hmm.. Kinnan can find Arbor Elf, just like the birds, since the elf is non-human too. Btw, the arbor elf + utopia sprawl combo is an established mana engine in Modern Ponza, Latest iterations of Ponza still use it - here's a 2022 deck list that did well on June 11 this year with 4 elf and 4 sprawl. https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=36775&d=476502&f=MO Which is why I was thinking having the Sprawl combo is something that's too strong to have here, because we're in casuals.

yeah, agreed. Give things a little more thought.. it's your deck, and we're doing this for fun anyways. Not sure if we think the same way, but my "fun" in casuals is we play weird decks. Want my weird deck to win a few times, but also want the others to get a couple of wins as well. No need to destroy all opponents, since nothing is really at stake here. So I'm careful not to make the casual deck too strong. Would like to hear your opinion on this, so I have a better idea on the power level of cards to suggest on your decks. Image

not much left to say.. except I find this ug dragon deck quite interesting. The use of Descendant's Path, I haven't seen it used in decks before. Image

if you don't mind. Can I see what the latest list looks like? :>

and you're welcome.
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Post by Diz » 1 year ago

Oh, I was specifically referring to Kinnan's "additional mana" ability, not his "cheatyface" ability! If that weren't a factor, yes, Arbor Elf would absolutely be the better choice, given the changes to the enchantments.

As far as the way my Causal-60 "optimization" goes, yeah, that's about how I feel about it, as well. Bounty of the Luxa is one of my pet cards, and something else I considered for this, but it didn't make the cut - 4-drops need to be win cons (or close to them) in this deck! I used Descendants' Path in my Animar Commander deck (Eldrazi kindred) back in the day. Fun stuff.

Yeah, I'll update the list as soon as I hit "submit" on this post.
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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

so I tried using the forum's draw 7 hand function. From this it's possible for us to do a few optimizations if desired / allowed.

first hand: 2 sprawl, 2 wild, korlessa, rampant, 1 temple
second hand: path, kinnan, birds, gnawbone, rampant, pool, forest
third hand: wild, korlessa, 2 harmonize, temple, 3 forest
fourth hand: Kinnan, kora, birds, rampant, wild, sprawl, pool
fifth hand. korlessa, birds, wild, 1 forest, 2 island, pool

first and fifth feel to be the weakest, but should still be playable as long as you aren't playing versus super fast aggro or burn.

the first is very slow, with temple as the only land, relying on wild growth, and hoping Korlessa is not killed right away.
fifth feels just as bad as the first. Also only has Korlessa, and trying to top deck into good things feels like a losing scenario

second and third draws look good

the third is pure gas with a korlessa and two harmonize - with one usable on turn three due to wild growth
second is aggresive with birds into rampant, into threats
____________

a suggestion..

-4 island +4 evolving wilds - allows more synergy for sprawl. Even if there is only one island left in the deck, there are still 4 temple and 4 pool. Together with the fetching from evolving wilds, would still be enough to keep the deck supplied with blue.
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Post by Diz » 1 year ago

I already have a Casual-60 deck with fetches (to fuel Kroxa's Escape) - having two feels like overkill. I think I'm gonna grab that 3rd Kinnan, the set of Temples and Pools, and the 2 Harmonize and see how it plays against the person I primarily play this non-format with. :D Will keep you posted on results.

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Post by Diz » 1 year ago

Got to play some Magic on Tuesday. Casual-60 UG Dragonsong feels like it's missing something, but of what that something is, I am not entirely sure. Still, fun to pilot, and I love the options that Descendant's Path and Kinnan's activated ability offer with the Kamigawa 1.0 & 2.0 dragon Legends dies triggers. My friend was playing a Vehicles deck centered around summoning the Megazord from Kamigawa 2.0 (I realize it's more akin to Voltron, but as that's the name for an entirely different strategy within Magic, we're not calling it that. It's a %$#% Megazord.), and we had some back-and-forths; the best value I got was out of Kairi, who bounced his Pilot tokens in addition to a slew of vehicles when I forced her death off of Descendants' Path on multiple occasions. Kura and Jugan felt like the weakest of the bunch, but they were both sorta useful. Iymrith was dope, and I almost got out Gnawbone, but I missed the Path trigger due to controlling no drgnz at the time. The Harmonize was definitely a lifesaver, as was the one instance I had Kura, because the deathtouch was a nice deterrant, and I kept flooding lands. Jugan made a Korlessa bigger, which kept me alive for several turns in one game, but maybe another Kura would be a better option? Having deathtouch is big, as is the option to kill my own dragons with the Legend rule...and the biggest reason for forcing Jugan is no longer in the deck, that being the Saga of him defending the temple.

Iunno, maybe there's an effective way to guarantee having cheap/free dragons out in early game to maximize that value, but that seems difficult in these colors. Maybe Changelings? I could swap Jugans for those.
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Post by Diz » 1 year ago

Shapesharer could be a good, cheap Changeling to run a few of. I also really like that it can force a death trigger on my Kamigawa dragons if I need it to...

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

nice to hear you had fun.
vehicle decks are always amusing to fight against.
_____________

sorry to say, but I feel Shapesharer is a trap. This guy requires you to have multiple shapeshifters in the deck to be good.
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Post by Diz » 1 year ago

Really? Why does it require multiple shapeshifters? Can it not target itself?

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Post by Diz » 1 year ago

Tested Shapesharers, earlier. Opponent was smart and killed one, early on, but then I got another out while I had a Kairi and went to town with my 2 Descendants' Path. Managed to win at 2 life.

Will test more later today.

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

did not notice it could target itself, but I still don't really like to rely on this card. In a Timmy environment this guy would thrive, but against non-Timmy opponents where he has no huge things to copy, and opponent keeps killing your large guys - you're stuck with an 2 cmc 1/1, this also makes him a bad topdeck into an empty board if you were recently board wiped. I feel his spot could be easily be just another fatty.. or if you really like this little guy, maybe not more than one or two of him in the deck?
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Post by Diz » 1 year ago

I understand your concerns, HOWEVER, it's actually ridiculously good for getting insane value from Descendants' Path - which it does in spades. I've tested the deck as-is, and aside from when my enchantments got Blast Zone'd, it was pretty excellent. That said...I realized that Kinnan doesn't buff their mana gains, so, I'm once again considering Simic Signet and maybe another mana dork instead of the Growth enchantments? Hmm.

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Post by Diz » 1 year ago

To my delight, I discovered that Noble Hierarch is now a very reasonable price. I placed an order for a playset of those and Maraleaf Pixie. More creatures means more potential value from Path, and more mana dorks means more value from Kinnan, in general. Will report back with results.

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Post by Diz » 1 year ago

...a thought. What if I swap out Harmonize for Unexpected Results, a pet card of mine? Alternatively, there's always Bounty of the Luxa, another pet card of mine, though I worry it would not be fast enough, as per my previous experiences with it in Casual-60.

Also, contemplating trying to fit in a 3rd Kairi, the Swirling Sky. What would you drop for her?

A second Old Gnawbone wouldn't be a bad addition, either...though, that might be asking too much. I'm leaning dropping a Korlessa, Scale Singer for the third Kairi, because, while Korlessa initially inspired the deck, she's been underwhelming in 99.9% of matches. She's mostly good for if I want to scry something to the bottom with Temple of Mystery for potential Descendants' Path value.

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Post by Diz » 1 year ago

I dropped the third Korlessa for a third Kairi.

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Post by Diz » 1 year ago

Got to test this iteration of the deck today! I played it against Achromatic Barrens (a friend bought the latter from me), and, while it was a slow start, it performed magnificently. Hierarch + Birbs with Kinnan out felt so good, as I was able to cast two of my Kamigawa dragons in a single turn with no issue, PLUS the one I got off of Descendants' Path. The early game Shapesharer was a huge benefit, and I kept getting value off of it being on the board with Path out. I didn't draw any of the Pixies, but I imagine they would have been fine, had I done so. A 12/12 Walker of the Wastes swung at me, which I blocked with Keiga and Kairi. I was able to bounce a Thaumatic Compass and Pilgrim's Eye off of Kairi, and I gained control of the Walker, as it was the other biggest thing on the board aside from my own stuff (though it stopped gaining the buff once it hit my board, obviously.) Either way, it was a bit of a slow game, but then I snowballed out into a bunch of dragons (including Iymrith) and took the win home with flying damage.

Good times.

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

glad to know you did well on the test game. This deck is the most fun among your creations here in casual.

about Harmonize vs Unexpected Results. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Just use the one that's easier to cast imo.

Noble Hierarch is high power level card for casuals. But if you have it, might as well use it here for better mana. :)
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Post by Diz » 1 year ago

Oh? :o What do you find particularly fun about it?

Yeah, next time I play it, I'll keep Unexpected Results in mind and see what would have happened if I would have had that, instead, and see what the...unexpected results...would be, hehe.

Yeah, apparently my Casual-60 friends have a bit harder an edge than a lot of others.

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

sorry for very late reply. Life has been so busy with the holiday season.
I only finished decorating the house yesterday. lol

anyway, I've always liked legendary creatures and how they could have a playable deck to their own. That's the main motivation on liking this deck.

the fact that you were able to make this work makes it interesting.

more than 2 years ago. I was in the process of building a rwg pioneer legal legends deck, but for some reason.. my paypal was getting errors from Starcity Games payment system. So the deck was put on hold.. then corona virus happened, and I have to conserve cash.. the deck remain unfinished to this day.
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