Is White getting better?

[ISBPathfinder]

Dockside is impressive but I don't know that I have seen enough that makes the transition to commander to be convinced that its a normal thing for red. Lots of the treasure stuff has been good enough for 60 card but very little of it has seemed to jump the gap for commander.

the cashmobile is definitely gonna see a lot of play Hoard Hauler -- oh and Professional Face-Breaker

Goldspan Dragon is a recent one that's caught on pretty good too.

and of course red gets powerhouses like Terror of the Peaks with some regularity

Hoard Hauler - I am totally not convinced that this is playable. I might be wrong but time will tell. It needs to be crewed, it lacks haste, it just feels like mazes and spot removal can stop it from being relivant while also being slow to trigger. It also has dockside's issues of needing someone to have heavy counts while also being more narrow in only counting artifacts.

Professional Face-Breaker - It looks really good, I am just not sure there is enough density of treasure cards for red to really get away with it. It might be ok on its own as treasure generation but I think there is still some issue with treasure payoff and treasure gen in red yet.

Goldspan Dragon - I haven't actually seen it played in commander before but I suspect that is in part due to its standard card usage price tag. Maybe when it drops some we see some but I also don't think I am that impressed with it. But then again.... games end for me often around turns 6-8 so I have a hard time being hyped for a 5 drop with a little ramp that likely won't be half as busted as what my opponents are doing.

I agree that red is getting things still, I just wouldn't go so far as to say that I feel like its getting anything on par with the love green / blue has gotten lately. I would put red probably a step ahead of white but probably still behind the other colors.

[Cyberium]

Base on the spoiler, white is getting quite a few draws, in favor of its blink/counter/token/small permanent theme.

[NZB2323]

Smuggler's share gives white ramp and card draw based on opponents doing the same. Seems like a great fair card for white. This may seem silly, but lore wise I don't see how a smuggler is white when white is the color of the law, but I won't complain about the effects.

Tenuous Truce and Bennie Bracks, Zoologist are also good card draw for white.

[Cyberium]

Smuggler's share gives white ramp and card draw based on opponents doing the same. Seems like a great fair card for white. This may seem silly, but lore wise I don't see how a smuggler is white when white is the color of the law, but I won't complain about the effects.

A fair cut of your share? No one left behind? ^_^

[5colorsrainbow]

Giada, Font of Hope is now mono-whites first mana dork and might follow blue in getting to get mana but only if they spend it on things it cares about.

[Hawk]

I think Tenuous Truce is sorta garbage, actually. Opponents will generally have their own plan for draw, and it doesn't trigger until their end step. That means unless you play it on exactly turn 2, you are likely for them to break it as soon as they are happy to do so. It is good at punishing control decks, but at the same time those decks will be happiest to out-draw you. I think I'll probably only play it in more controlling Boros builds.

But Smuggler's Share seems awesome for sure - much, much better than Monologue Tax and much, much less obnoxious than Smothering Tithe which is a nice place to land.

[Cyberium]

I just notice some of these cards are from set booster packs only. WotC is really wanting to make money eh?

[Mookie]

Looking at the commons, Sky Crier and Inspiring Overseer please me. Are they good? No, but I'm glad they exist, and they open the door to stronger versions of their effects down the line.

[Hawk]

Looking at the commons, Sky Crier and Inspiring Overseer please me. Are they good? No, but I'm glad they exist, and they open the door to stronger versions of their effects down the line.

Crazy that I thought Priest of Ancient Lore was already pretty solid for white, and now Inspiring Overseer strictly-better-thans it unless you are in Dwarves. I also like Sky Crier; a 1/1 flying lifelink for two isn't that great and nor is the ability, but I'm glad it exists and could even see running it in some WR or WG places.

[Vessiliana]

I just notice some of these cards are from set booster packs only. WotC is really wanting to make money eh?

Which ones? I am not able to tell which is which, and there are some I really want to get, so I need to know whether they come with my complete set!

[3drinks]

Well, it probably is, if I could run Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero last night and be fully functional on six plains all game. No crimped play, No feeling of running low on cards, having access to the tools I'd need to solve a situation. Kept up with Izoni, Thousand-Eyed, Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis, and Nicol Bolas, the Ravager // Nicol Bolas, the Arisen all game.

Of course Kynaios invalidated the whole hour plus we played with an end step Cy Rift and then started a rather masturbatory game where they didn't win, but it was clear the game was over. "Oh, boy, another Beacon of Tomorrows you say?" Enough I held up my F6 button while they...attacked us indiscriminately with Sad Robot and Kynaios. But, anyway, that's not really the fault of mono-w so much as just how toxic Cyclonic Rift is as a tool.

At any rate, The play is there, but your deck is fairly pigeonholed into numerous must-play cards just to keep up. So it's "not there yet" I guess, but "there enough" that with a deep card knowledge you can build a functional deck.

[Mookie]

I just notice some of these cards are from set booster packs only. WotC is really wanting to make money eh?

Which ones? I am not able to tell which is which, and there are some I really want to get, so I need to know whether they come with my complete set!

I assume this is referring to Bennie Bracks, Zoologist and Tenuous Truce... but I'm not entirely sure, since I can't find a list of set booster exclusive cards anywhere. That said, they have done so for cards in the past (ex: Lynde, Cheerful Tormentor and the Visions of Ruin cycle).

[TheTuna]

As Josh Lee Kwai observed a while back on Twitter during the conversation around I think Opposition Agent, W doesn't just need to get really good cards, it needs to get them at a higher rate than the other colors, in order to close the gap.

I've been dubious about WotC's efforts to fix W for a while, but if SNC represents perhaps the next stage of WOTC's campaign to fix the color in the format, I am now much more optimistic. Smuggler's Share is just straight-up a great W card - aggressively costed and no "at your end step" or other restrictions which often handcuff W cards. Same for Bennie Bracks, Zoologist. This could easily have been a "at your end step" bulk rare, but instead is a very powerful effect thanks to WotC avoiding the handcuffs so often slapped on W cards. Similarly, in the more narrow (but still popular) Angel tribal frame Giada, Font of Hope is an amazing tribal lord and Angelic Sleuth and Sanctuary Warden synergize fantastically with her to offer Angel tribal more card draw options in a flavorful and fun way.

If W gets more stuff like this every set, or ideally increasing even further, the color will be in a much better place in a few years' time. Feels like the last area remaining to address is the need for powerful game-closing high-CMC effects. More of Serra's Emissary and less of Avacyn's Memorial, please!

[Cyberium]

Feels like the last area remaining to address is the need for powerful game-closing high-CMC effects.

If you're speaking about wincons in general, white has quite a number of them available, from Approach of the Second Sun to Faithbound Judge to Halo Fountain and more. Admittedly, each tends to need different decks to optimize.

[TheTuna]

Feels like the last area remaining to address is the need for powerful game-closing high-CMC effects.

If you're speaking about wincons in general, white has quite a number of them available, from Approach of the Second Sun to Faithbound Judge to Halo Fountain and more. Admittedly, each tends to need different decks to optimize.

Those are all OK for sure, but I'd like to see more some general explosive "wow!" effects in W that don't require you to jump through a ton of hoops like those cards do. Stuff like Expropriate, Craterhoof Behemoth, Finale of Devastation, etc.

[Cyberium]

Those are all OK for sure, but I'd like to see more some general explosive "wow!" effects in W that don't require you to jump through a ton of hoops like those cards do. Stuff like Expropriate, Craterhoof Behemoth, Finale of Devastation, etc.

Cataclysm seems to fit that theme. White has always been keeping advantage by destroying lands. Maybe a version similar to Martial Coup such as, "Create X 1/1 soldier tokens. If X is 7+, destroy all lands."

[pokken]

Cataclysm seems to fit that theme. White has always been keeping advantage by destroying lands. Maybe a version similar to Martial Coup such as, "Create X 1/1 soldier tokens. If X is 7+, destroy all lands."

Cataclysm Finale of Devastation

One of these things puts you up a card that you tutor for and potentially gives your board lethal combat damage and the other *puts you down a card but is otherwise symmetrical*.

There are bombs that win the game in White's color pie, see Akroma's Will or Serra's Emissary. Cataclysm doesn't really fit.

[Cyberium]

Cataclysm Finale of Devastation

One of these things puts you up a card that you tutor for and potentially gives your board lethal combat damage and the other *puts you down a card but is otherwise symmetrical*.

There are bombs that win the game in White's color pie, see Akroma's Will or Serra's Emissary. Cataclysm doesn't really fit.

I was going to use Armageddon as an example instead of Cataclysm, then I remember how much people dislike MLD, so I went down a notch.

I don't believe white needs an expensive one-shot wincon, as long as it's a reliable and consistent one, or a very versatile spell like Akroma's Will with "potential" to win the game after some set up.

If one's to be made, then perhaps it could be a 6cc entwine spell:

White Wins?
4WW
Instant

Choose one —
• All permanents you control phase out.
• Destroy all artifacts and enchantments.
• Destroy all creatures.
• Destroy all lands.

Entwine 1WW (Choose all if you pay the entwine cost.)

It's probably still weaker than Expropriate or Craterhoof as a pure wincon, but it'd be more versatile and within white's flavor.

EDIT - It can also go with Escalate mechanic:

White Wins?
3WW
Instant

Escalate W (Pay this cost for each mode chosen beyond the first.)

Choose one or more —
• All permanents you control phase out.
• Destroy all artifacts and enchantments.
• Destroy all creatures.
• Destroy all lands.

[pokken]

I don't believe white needs an expensive one-shot wincon, as long as it's a reliable and consistent one, or a very versatile spell like Akroma's Will with "potential" to win the game after some set up.

I think, in general, every color gets ridiculous game winning bombs at 8-10 mana these days...except white.

I am not in general in favor of those cards, but it's an angle where white lags behind pretty significantly. Its bombs tend to be lackluster or very narrow or require a lot of setup.

[Mookie]

Re: white getting Craterhoof Behemoth - it does have access to some strong force multipliers to convert a large board into piles of damage - Jazal Goldmane, Cathars' Crusade, and Nykthos Paragon all come to mind. That said, the options available are definitely weaker than Craterhoof / Beastmaster Ascension / other green Overrun effects. I wouldn't mind seeing some more pushed white options.

[pokken]

The key differentiator with most white combat bombs is that they don't give evasion and damage. I'd like to see a few "dudes get giant and vigilance" effects which feels more white and not quite as strong as trample.

Imagine whiterhoof but with vigilance and pump lasting until next turn as being pretty cool.

It's possible that akromas will will prove to be enough. It has some problems in that white struggles to get to the power threshold to be killing tables.

[Cyberium]

I think, in general, every color gets ridiculous game winning bombs at 8-10 mana these days...except white.

I am not in general in favor of those cards, but it's an angle where white lags behind pretty significantly. Its bombs tend to be lackluster or very narrow or require a lot of setup.

I wouldn't mind letting white have cheap answers that could counter AND benefit from those expensive spells, something similar to Finale of Glory + Teferi's Protection where you get to nullify a spell/permanent of 7cc+ then add # of token = the cost. After all, one of white's positive traits is fighting the tycoons.

Normally 7+cc spells are hated by the rest of the table, so perhaps give white a voting spell that can counter such effect for under 3cc if the table vote against it, then the winners are additionally rewarded for their joint opinion. WotC seems very keen on making white the political color anyway.

----------

Addendum: This anti-tycoon ideology might be a valid design for white ramping too:

Topple the Landlords
2W
Instant

Choose target spell or permanent. If you control less lands than its cc, search your library for a number of basic plains equal to the difference, then put them onto the battlefield tapped.

[NZB2323]

The closest thing white has to Crafterhoof is Mirror Entity.

[DirkGently]

If one's to be made, then perhaps it could be a 6cc entwine spell:

White Wins?
4WW
Instant

Choose one —
• All permanents you control phase out.
• Destroy all artifacts and enchantments.
• Destroy all creatures.
• Destroy all lands.

Entwine 1WW (Choose all if you pay the entwine cost.)

It's probably still weaker than Expropriate or Craterhoof as a pure wincon, but it'd be more versatile and within white's flavor.

EDIT - It can also go with Escalate mechanic:

White Wins?
3WW
Instant

Escalate W (Pay this cost for each mode chosen beyond the first.)

Choose one or more —
• All permanents you control phase out.
• Destroy all artifacts and enchantments.
• Destroy all creatures.
• Destroy all lands.

Lol those are so insanely broken. 6 mana destroy all enemy lands as an instant? You think 9 mana destroy all enemy permanents is LESS reliable than expropriate? I mean I hate expropriate too but it's not THAT stupid. Y'all in here trying to make white the "kill on sight" color lmao.

[folding_music]

i think i'd prefer Iona being unbanned to instant-speed Armageddon in every white deck