I have not experienced that exact result with Evolution Sage yet, but that's precisely why I kept it in my list as well: get a couple extra loyalty counters on a planeswalker and fire off an ultimate before anyone can react. Well played!
It sounds like you've arrived at a point where the Lord is mostly a well-oiled machine that needs very little maintenance, which makes a lot of sense. I looked at the latest Theros set, which is chock-full of great commander cards, and mostly just yawned. Dryad of the Ilysian Grove is fine, but not even necessary, and not even the new cast of gods really matters much.
Lord Windgrace
I played this again last night and had anther pretty good game with it. I didn't really do anything until turn 5 when I just slammed Windgrace to start drawing me cards. I ended up getting a Mina and Denn Wildborn and a couple ramp creatures. Mina and Denn actually worked out pretty well since an opposing player played a Mana Breach. Which was, honestly, pretty much all upside for me. I would tap out, bounce a land, discard that land to Windgrace, and get more cards to do stuff with.
I got a small army of things like Ulvenwald Hydra and Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar. I also got a Spike Weaver down which stopped people from attacking me for a while.
One opposing player was playing Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker (they had the Mana Breach) which worked out well for me too since it kept milling lands. I was able to cast Splendid Reclamation as a ramp spell.
Eventually though, the Golos player was running out of cards. Luckily, I had cast Bane of Progress to get rid of a lot of their board but, mainly, their Leyline of Anticipation. This forced them to act at normal timing for things so, when they had 7 cards left in their library, they dropped in a Laboratory Maniac. I let them get down to 0 cards and then I blew it up so they just lost to themselves.
From there, it was just me and Oketra left (Mirko died turns ago) and I was still banking on Spike Weaver for a little while. They attempted to reanimate an Angel of Sanctions so I sacrificed Protean Hulk to get a World Shaper to then sac to get more lands. One of which was a Bojuka Bog so I could save my Spike Weaver.
At the time, I was also getting low on cards as was Oketra. I decided to kind of screw around a little. They had an Avacyn, Angel of Hope on the field and I had Ulamog. I could have Sacrificed Ulamog, got it back with Eternal Witness and exiled Avacyn (which I had tried to do once before but they saved her). But, instead, I just decided to deck myself with Lord Windrace, Gitrog Monster, and Underrealm Lich. The Lich was important so I didn't lose to drawing from an empty library (though they could have removed it obviously).
I attacked with Ulamog to get rid of the last 19 cards in their library and they ended up drawing from an empty library instead, causing them to lose.
At one point, I really wanted to swing in with Multani while increasing his power with Kessig Wolf Run but that would have *only* been around 60 damage and they had 54 toughness and all their stuff was indestructible, And their board just got bigger from there.
Objectively the right play was to just get rid of Avacyn and start removing their board but this ended was a little more fun
Nothing more to really comment on. I didn't see anything I didn't want to see or anything I would have rather seen. Garruk gave me a couple wolves but they didn't do anything so he was kind of underwhelming here. I probably should have ticked him down to destroy something but I went a different way with dealing with the threat at the time.
I got a small army of things like Ulvenwald Hydra and Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar. I also got a Spike Weaver down which stopped people from attacking me for a while.
One opposing player was playing Mirko Vosk, Mind Drinker (they had the Mana Breach) which worked out well for me too since it kept milling lands. I was able to cast Splendid Reclamation as a ramp spell.
Eventually though, the Golos player was running out of cards. Luckily, I had cast Bane of Progress to get rid of a lot of their board but, mainly, their Leyline of Anticipation. This forced them to act at normal timing for things so, when they had 7 cards left in their library, they dropped in a Laboratory Maniac. I let them get down to 0 cards and then I blew it up so they just lost to themselves.
From there, it was just me and Oketra left (Mirko died turns ago) and I was still banking on Spike Weaver for a little while. They attempted to reanimate an Angel of Sanctions so I sacrificed Protean Hulk to get a World Shaper to then sac to get more lands. One of which was a Bojuka Bog so I could save my Spike Weaver.
At the time, I was also getting low on cards as was Oketra. I decided to kind of screw around a little. They had an Avacyn, Angel of Hope on the field and I had Ulamog. I could have Sacrificed Ulamog, got it back with Eternal Witness and exiled Avacyn (which I had tried to do once before but they saved her). But, instead, I just decided to deck myself with Lord Windrace, Gitrog Monster, and Underrealm Lich. The Lich was important so I didn't lose to drawing from an empty library (though they could have removed it obviously).
I attacked with Ulamog to get rid of the last 19 cards in their library and they ended up drawing from an empty library instead, causing them to lose.
At one point, I really wanted to swing in with Multani while increasing his power with Kessig Wolf Run but that would have *only* been around 60 damage and they had 54 toughness and all their stuff was indestructible, And their board just got bigger from there.
Objectively the right play was to just get rid of Avacyn and start removing their board but this ended was a little more fun
Nothing more to really comment on. I didn't see anything I didn't want to see or anything I would have rather seen. Garruk gave me a couple wolves but they didn't do anything so he was kind of underwhelming here. I probably should have ticked him down to destroy something but I went a different way with dealing with the threat at the time.
Last edited by WizardMN 3 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
With the full spoiler of Core 2021 and Jumpstart, I have decided to finally post some of my thoughts on new cards. I will separate then by color but Jumpstart and Core 2021 cards will be lumped together.
Not a lot here for Lord Windgrace unfortunately. I only came up with two cards.
Here is what I can see as being potentials:
Elder Gargaroth - Being able to draw cards, generate an army, and gain life while also working to protect Windgrace are all upsides. And the army does its own to further protect Windgrace which means that might be the more common mode when Windgrace is on the table. Either way though, there is some serious power in this card and I think it is a very easy include. I might be overstating it, but I think the realistic impact this card has on games is pretty good.
Allosaurus Shepherd - I don't really think this is all that necessary. It does help stop Windgrace from getting countered, which is good, but I haven't really felt it to be necessary. The activated ability works with 5 other creatures which isn't a lot. I think stopping my green spells from being countered is still nice though considering this deck is primarily green. I might find a spot for it just to make sure any subsequent spells can't be countered. It is also something good to get off Protean Hulk in response to something being countered. I don't plan on including it right now, but I am likely going to keep looking at it as an option if needed.
Not a lot here for Lord Windgrace unfortunately. I only came up with two cards.
Here is what I can see as being potentials:
Green Cards
Allosaurus Shepherd - I don't really think this is all that necessary. It does help stop Windgrace from getting countered, which is good, but I haven't really felt it to be necessary. The activated ability works with 5 other creatures which isn't a lot. I think stopping my green spells from being countered is still nice though considering this deck is primarily green. I might find a spot for it just to make sure any subsequent spells can't be countered. It is also something good to get off Protean Hulk in response to something being countered. I don't plan on including it right now, but I am likely going to keep looking at it as an option if needed.
I'm thinking of building Lord Windgrace as my next deck so I'm definitely going to be using this thread and deck as a guide. I miss playing Jund and my last Jund commander was Prossh which was one of my favorite decks ever but retired it. I also think using a planeswalker as my commander will be cool and I haven't made one with one yet.
My Decks:
Teysa Karlov
Varina, Lich Queen
Tana // Tevesh Szat
Volrath, the Shapestealer
Sisay, Weatherlight Captain
Teysa Karlov
Varina, Lich Queen
Tana // Tevesh Szat
Volrath, the Shapestealer
Sisay, Weatherlight Captain
I hope you enjoy it! I haven't gotten to play it much lately with the world being shut down but I have had a lot of fun with Windgrace. I tried to separate him pretty well from my Karador deck so I am sure there are some choices you might make differently but I have thought it is a fun build so far. I would be interested in any game summaries and/or a deck list if you change a bit from mine.Noir wrote: ↑3 years agoI'm thinking of building Lord Windgrace as my next deck so I'm definitely going to be using this thread and deck as a guide. I miss playing Jund and my last Jund commander was Prossh which was one of my favorite decks ever but retired it. I also think using a planeswalker as my commander will be cool and I haven't made one with one yet.
Good luck!
Thanks! I definitely will report back I haven't really been able to play much either so not really sure when I will actually get a working build or the chance to play but once I do I will post back. Love seeing updates so I hope to keep popping in with new sets to see some reviewsWizardMN wrote: ↑3 years agoI hope you enjoy it! I haven't gotten to play it much lately with the world being shut down but I have had a lot of fun with Windgrace. I tried to separate him pretty well from my Karador deck so I am sure there are some choices you might make differently but I have thought it is a fun build so far. I would be interested in any game summaries and/or a deck list if you change a bit from mine.Noir wrote: ↑3 years agoI'm thinking of building Lord Windgrace as my next deck so I'm definitely going to be using this thread and deck as a guide. I miss playing Jund and my last Jund commander was Prossh which was one of my favorite decks ever but retired it. I also think using a planeswalker as my commander will be cool and I haven't made one with one yet.
Good luck!
My Decks:
Teysa Karlov
Varina, Lich Queen
Tana // Tevesh Szat
Volrath, the Shapestealer
Sisay, Weatherlight Captain
Teysa Karlov
Varina, Lich Queen
Tana // Tevesh Szat
Volrath, the Shapestealer
Sisay, Weatherlight Captain
Here are some changes I am going to change with the release of the new sets:
I actually had a really tough time trying to come up with a cut here. I thought about Protean Hulk but I still like it in this deck because it has yet to make things too oppressive or repetitive. I also thought of Wrenn and Six or Tectonic Reformation. W6 is useful but I am not sure how much. And I don't know if I need the ability to cycle lands especially with the Gargaroth being added anyway.
In the end I chose to remove Cavalier though. I think I have a lot of removal as it is and I think I am fine with getting rid of the one that forces me to sac a creature in order to get the ETB trigger. But I do think the Reformation might be a cut in the future depending on what Gargaroth does.
I actually had a really tough time trying to come up with a cut here. I thought about Protean Hulk but I still like it in this deck because it has yet to make things too oppressive or repetitive. I also thought of Wrenn and Six or Tectonic Reformation. W6 is useful but I am not sure how much. And I don't know if I need the ability to cycle lands especially with the Gargaroth being added anyway.
In the end I chose to remove Cavalier though. I think I have a lot of removal as it is and I think I am fine with getting rid of the one that forces me to sac a creature in order to get the ETB trigger. But I do think the Reformation might be a cut in the future depending on what Gargaroth does.
I played this deck last night against Ephara, God of the Polis (my own deck), God-Eternal Oketra, and Karona, False God (God Tribal).
I didn't really start off with much ramp but got Windgrace down on turn 5. Ephara had already gotten a decent board with Soulherder and Cloudblazer but nothing that could really kill Windgrace since I did have one blocker for the ground. They kept him down though. I was able to tick him up and pitch lands to draw. I also got an Underrealm Lich on the board so I was looking at even more cards.
With the Lich, I started putting more lands in the graveyard due to me having World Shaper. I found a time to cast it and luckily I did because the next turn Ephara cast Angel of Finality targeting me. I sacrificed the World Shaper to get back about 11 lands. One of which was Glacial Chasm so I was protected from damage for the time being. I did lose my graveyard still, but it wasn't too bad.
I sort of rode out the Chasm for a while and cast Ulvenwald Hydra to ramp more and Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar. Both helped protect Windgrace. I also sacrificed the Hydra and Multani a number of times over the course of the game (thanks to Phyrexian Reclamation getting them back for me) to gain somewhere around 60 life total. Twice were to Diamond Valley (which was the first land I got off Hydra) and once was to Momentous Fall to draw me cards too.
These let me keep paying life to Chasm which I kept around for a while. I ended up with 5 counters on it at one point. I didn't pay for the 6th.
At one point I also had Evolution Sage on the board. I had it, Windgrace, and just cast Nissa, Vital Force. I was able to use these to ultimate Nissa right away and still keep her alive. I was even able to get her back up to 4 counters without activating her again. Oketra killed her and I was fine with that since I had her emblem.
I was getting close to decking myself so I grabbed Underrealm Lich just in case as it is only one of two ways I can prevent myself from losing to drawing out my deck. The other is Volrath's Stronghold.
But, I got to the end of the game where I had 28 lands on the field and a Multani and Ulvenwald Hydra as creatures. Ephara had a Maze of Ith and exactly 28 life. Oketra was at around 34 life. I cast Eternal Witness to get back Heroic Intervention. I needed to do this instead of destroying Maze with one of the 4 Strip Mine lands because that would have put me at 27 for Hydra. I did forget Multani would have still counted it in the graveyard so I could have done that. It still worked out though. Intervention allowed me to make my Hydra hexproof so Maze couldn't target it and I killed Ephara. I then activated Kessig Wolf Run on Multani to get in even more power to Oketra to kill them.
Obviously switching the creatures around and activating Strip Mine was better since Hydra would have gotten Trample from Wolf Run anyway so I will need to be more aware of that in the future.
Either way, the deck performed very well. I was able to do a lot even against Stonecloaker from Ephara since I could just make sure I got stuff back in response to the trigger so they were never able to exile anything important. World Shaper was huge in ramping me to where I got to.
I did encounter Tectonic Reformation during some of my digging with Windgrace and Bazaar of Baghdad and my thought was "...ugh, why do I have this card". I discarded it pretty quickly and I am pretty sure I am going to cut it eventually. It works "well" with the idea of the deck but I have discovered it isn't as useful as I would like considering the rest of the card draw I already have anyway.
I didn't really start off with much ramp but got Windgrace down on turn 5. Ephara had already gotten a decent board with Soulherder and Cloudblazer but nothing that could really kill Windgrace since I did have one blocker for the ground. They kept him down though. I was able to tick him up and pitch lands to draw. I also got an Underrealm Lich on the board so I was looking at even more cards.
With the Lich, I started putting more lands in the graveyard due to me having World Shaper. I found a time to cast it and luckily I did because the next turn Ephara cast Angel of Finality targeting me. I sacrificed the World Shaper to get back about 11 lands. One of which was Glacial Chasm so I was protected from damage for the time being. I did lose my graveyard still, but it wasn't too bad.
I sort of rode out the Chasm for a while and cast Ulvenwald Hydra to ramp more and Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar. Both helped protect Windgrace. I also sacrificed the Hydra and Multani a number of times over the course of the game (thanks to Phyrexian Reclamation getting them back for me) to gain somewhere around 60 life total. Twice were to Diamond Valley (which was the first land I got off Hydra) and once was to Momentous Fall to draw me cards too.
These let me keep paying life to Chasm which I kept around for a while. I ended up with 5 counters on it at one point. I didn't pay for the 6th.
At one point I also had Evolution Sage on the board. I had it, Windgrace, and just cast Nissa, Vital Force. I was able to use these to ultimate Nissa right away and still keep her alive. I was even able to get her back up to 4 counters without activating her again. Oketra killed her and I was fine with that since I had her emblem.
I was getting close to decking myself so I grabbed Underrealm Lich just in case as it is only one of two ways I can prevent myself from losing to drawing out my deck. The other is Volrath's Stronghold.
But, I got to the end of the game where I had 28 lands on the field and a Multani and Ulvenwald Hydra as creatures. Ephara had a Maze of Ith and exactly 28 life. Oketra was at around 34 life. I cast Eternal Witness to get back Heroic Intervention. I needed to do this instead of destroying Maze with one of the 4 Strip Mine lands because that would have put me at 27 for Hydra. I did forget Multani would have still counted it in the graveyard so I could have done that. It still worked out though. Intervention allowed me to make my Hydra hexproof so Maze couldn't target it and I killed Ephara. I then activated Kessig Wolf Run on Multani to get in even more power to Oketra to kill them.
Obviously switching the creatures around and activating Strip Mine was better since Hydra would have gotten Trample from Wolf Run anyway so I will need to be more aware of that in the future.
Either way, the deck performed very well. I was able to do a lot even against Stonecloaker from Ephara since I could just make sure I got stuff back in response to the trigger so they were never able to exile anything important. World Shaper was huge in ramping me to where I got to.
I did encounter Tectonic Reformation during some of my digging with Windgrace and Bazaar of Baghdad and my thought was "...ugh, why do I have this card". I discarded it pretty quickly and I am pretty sure I am going to cut it eventually. It works "well" with the idea of the deck but I have discovered it isn't as useful as I would like considering the rest of the card draw I already have anyway.
I played this deck last night against God-Eternal Bontu, Zurgo Helmsmasher,
I kept a pretty weak hand in hindsight, but I felt it could be enough to get me there. Mostly, I had 2 lands, Crop Rotation and Life from the Loam. I really wanted Loam so I ended up casting Crop Rotation on turn 2 and getting the land back with Loam. However, Bontu exiled my graveyard with Bojuka Bog before I could Dredge it so I lost out on my plan to use that to get lands.
I did end up drawing lands and a Nissa, Vital Force which sort of ramped me. I animated a land (because she forces me to
) and Bontu blew it up. I just got it back with Nissa and then cast Garruk, Cursed Huntsman. Garruk did a lot of work in this game to give me blockers and destroy creatures.
I ended up getting Lord Windgrace down a little later and used him to draw some cards. I had one chance to ultimate Nissa but I had to get my land back so she ended up dying before I got her back to 6 counters again.
Bontu exiled my yard one more time to prevent me from getting a land back with Nissa again.
I cast The Gitrog Monster but didn't have any extra lands to play. I just wanted him out there so I could draw 3 cards from discarding a land to Windgrace. Which worked out. Gitrog ended up dying before my next turn so I just reanimated him with Phyrexian Delver and again discarded a land to Windgrace to draw 3.
On one of the more important turns, after Bontu had sacrificed 4 creatures to Bontu himself with a Dictate of Erebos on the field (thus wiping the field), I cast Last One Standing to destroy 3 of their 4 creatures and then destroyed the last one with Garruk.
Next turn I was able to play Lotus Cobra and 3 lands and cast a Ulvenwald Hydra to get Bojuka Bog to exile Bontu's graveyard. This allowed me to keep up 2 mana for Constant Mists, which I had been using to protect my Walkers up until this point already. My next turn rolled around and I cast Liliana, Dreadhorde General to make everyone sac two creatures to clear Bontu's board again. I sacrificed two of the Wolves from Garruk and drew 2 cards.
Bontu and I were the only ones left around this time. The others ended up dying to Bontu's Torment of Hailfire. They cast it for X=8. I sacrificed a permanent, discarded 2 cards, and lost 15 life. This left me at 2 life. I clawed my way back up to 11 eventually thanks to Diamond Valley but then they cast Erebos, God of the Dead. It was well timed as I had a Lifeblood Hydra in hand that I could no longer really gain life with.
They cast Finale of Eternity to get their graveyard back but I was able to cast Evolution Sage into 3 lands to proliferate enough to ultimate Windgrace and Liliana the same turn. This was important because Bontu had a Mikaeus, the Unhallowed on the board so I needed to destroy him first with Windgrace before making him sac everything with Liliana. This left them with one land, Erebos, and Rune-Scarred Demon. I took a hit with the Demon to go down to 3 (I lost 2 life elsewhere before that) and then I destroyed it with Assassin's Trophy and ended up coasting to an easy win from there.
This game ended up being all about the Planeswalkers and Garruk was an all-star. He is the only reason I was able to remain in this game at all in the beginning. I again saw Tectonic Reformation and again was disappointed to see it. Once I figure out what I want to put in its place, it is going to get cut.
Otherwise, beyond just not drawing any ramp until the end of the game, the deck showed its resiliency in this game and I was pleased with the way it turned out. Even if it hadn't worked out that way and I died to Torment, it had made a good showing up until that point. Diamond Valley was key in surviving it at the time since I was able to get my life total up and didn't have to sac as many things.
I kept a pretty weak hand in hindsight, but I felt it could be enough to get me there. Mostly, I had 2 lands, Crop Rotation and Life from the Loam. I really wanted Loam so I ended up casting Crop Rotation on turn 2 and getting the land back with Loam. However, Bontu exiled my graveyard with Bojuka Bog before I could Dredge it so I lost out on my plan to use that to get lands.
I did end up drawing lands and a Nissa, Vital Force which sort of ramped me. I animated a land (because she forces me to
) and Bontu blew it up. I just got it back with Nissa and then cast Garruk, Cursed Huntsman. Garruk did a lot of work in this game to give me blockers and destroy creatures.I ended up getting Lord Windgrace down a little later and used him to draw some cards. I had one chance to ultimate Nissa but I had to get my land back so she ended up dying before I got her back to 6 counters again.
Bontu exiled my yard one more time to prevent me from getting a land back with Nissa again.
I cast The Gitrog Monster but didn't have any extra lands to play. I just wanted him out there so I could draw 3 cards from discarding a land to Windgrace. Which worked out. Gitrog ended up dying before my next turn so I just reanimated him with Phyrexian Delver and again discarded a land to Windgrace to draw 3.
On one of the more important turns, after Bontu had sacrificed 4 creatures to Bontu himself with a Dictate of Erebos on the field (thus wiping the field), I cast Last One Standing to destroy 3 of their 4 creatures and then destroyed the last one with Garruk.
Next turn I was able to play Lotus Cobra and 3 lands and cast a Ulvenwald Hydra to get Bojuka Bog to exile Bontu's graveyard. This allowed me to keep up 2 mana for Constant Mists, which I had been using to protect my Walkers up until this point already. My next turn rolled around and I cast Liliana, Dreadhorde General to make everyone sac two creatures to clear Bontu's board again. I sacrificed two of the Wolves from Garruk and drew 2 cards.
Bontu and I were the only ones left around this time. The others ended up dying to Bontu's Torment of Hailfire. They cast it for X=8. I sacrificed a permanent, discarded 2 cards, and lost 15 life. This left me at 2 life. I clawed my way back up to 11 eventually thanks to Diamond Valley but then they cast Erebos, God of the Dead. It was well timed as I had a Lifeblood Hydra in hand that I could no longer really gain life with.
They cast Finale of Eternity to get their graveyard back but I was able to cast Evolution Sage into 3 lands to proliferate enough to ultimate Windgrace and Liliana the same turn. This was important because Bontu had a Mikaeus, the Unhallowed on the board so I needed to destroy him first with Windgrace before making him sac everything with Liliana. This left them with one land, Erebos, and Rune-Scarred Demon. I took a hit with the Demon to go down to 3 (I lost 2 life elsewhere before that) and then I destroyed it with Assassin's Trophy and ended up coasting to an easy win from there.
This game ended up being all about the Planeswalkers and Garruk was an all-star. He is the only reason I was able to remain in this game at all in the beginning. I again saw Tectonic Reformation and again was disappointed to see it. Once I figure out what I want to put in its place, it is going to get cut.
Otherwise, beyond just not drawing any ramp until the end of the game, the deck showed its resiliency in this game and I was pleased with the way it turned out. Even if it hadn't worked out that way and I died to Torment, it had made a good showing up until that point. Diamond Valley was key in surviving it at the time since I was able to get my life total up and didn't have to sac as many things.
Last edited by WizardMN 3 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Here are my overdue card summaries/evaluations for Zendikar Rising and Commander Legends. I just bunched them all together and tried to limit the scope of what cards are being discussed. There might be something I missed of course, but hopefully I got the main ones.
Drana, the Last Bloodchief - While this is more of a land focused deck, it has its fair share of creatures. And very few are duds, so having a decently sized flier that only needs to attack to reanimate stuff, even if we don't get to choose what is brought back, is some decent value. I think she is worth trying out here to see what she can do.
Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools - I don't really intend on this being a Planeswalker heavy deck, but it looks like it might be leaning towards that. I like Tevesh as a way to keep my hand full and, as a worst case scenario, I can sac Windgrace himself to get another card and potentially cast him again to get some more card draw that turn. I think it is worth including but the 5 mana means I probably need to cut something on the top end. Possibly another Walker.
Moraug, Fury of Akoum - Finally a landfall effect I actually want to play. While Rampaging Baloths and Avenger of Zendikar are good, I have never really liked the cards. This card however does a lot in this deck since I have a fair number of creatures and it shouldn't be hard to get at least one extra combat per turn. On his own, Windgrace gives us two extra combats. I don't know what to cut but I think this is a card worth slotting in, even at 6 mana.
Nahiri's Lithoforming - This is a tough one. I like the effect and even sacrificing 2 lands gets us 2 cards and 2 extra land drops. Not spectacular by any means, but when combined with things like World Shaper and Splendid Reclamation, and just the fact that nearly half the deck is lands anyway, it is very possible this ends up being a wash when cast in that we could probably utilize the extra land drops somehow. At the very least, this seems far better than Tectonic Reformation because at least I get to play the lands with this.
Ancient Greenwarden - Being able to play lands from the graveyard is good, though being on a 6 drop is not ideal. There isn't a lot that is triggered in this deck from lands entering. In fact, I only count 3 (Moraug would be 4). I think with that low of a count for being able to double effects, it really isn't worth adding a 6 drop just to play cards from the Yard.
Apex Devastator - Well, this is certainly a card. 10 mana is a massive amount of mana, even for this deck, but that effect is also very, very appealing. I don't know what I would cut, and I can't say for sure it is definitely going in, but there is a real possibility I find a slot for this card just to see what it does and have some fun with it.
Ashaya, Soul of the Wild - Because this is a land centric deck, it is worth at least mentioning Ashaya. But, her ability is basically useless. We care about ramping and do things with lands in the graveyard. We don't care much about having our creatures enter as lands or be lands on the field so she is an easy pass.
Court of Bounty - Getting more lands on the field is good, but this deck isn't quite as aggressive as others which means it might be hard to a) hold onto the crown and b) get it back once lost. With Windgrace and the potential add of Tevesh Szat, the card draw is also less impactful, which means the main thing this card does is allow for a free land every turn. Since I am not running Exploration, I don't think I can justify this.
Reshape the Earth - I can generally get to 9 mana somewhat easily and this is a way to really amp up the land count on the field. I am not doing much with Landfall (though it works wonders with Scute Swarm mentioned below) but being able to get some of my utility lands can be pretty nice. And triggering Moraug above 10 times is alright I guess
Roiling Regrowth - This is a different Harrow. It isn't necessarily worse, but it isn't better either. I do think I would rather take Harrow even with the risk of it getting countered just because the lands enter untapped. And, since I am not running Harrow, this doesn't really make the cut either.
Scute Swarm - Well, another landfall card. I think it would be pretty hard to pass up this card in this deck. The value it generates is insane and can quickly take over games if left alone for even two turns. I will be finding a spot for this somewhere.
Nissa of Shadowed Boughs - This probably isn't too hard to have enter and immediately be able to "ultimate" to get a free creature. Since the curve tops out at 6, for the most part, that would get me basically any creature I have access to. And if it is any later in the game, I can get pretty much any creature. While this deck isn't going too heavy in reanimation, having something like this can be good. I am likely going to find a spot for her.
Black Cards
Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools - I don't really intend on this being a Planeswalker heavy deck, but it looks like it might be leaning towards that. I like Tevesh as a way to keep my hand full and, as a worst case scenario, I can sac Windgrace himself to get another card and potentially cast him again to get some more card draw that turn. I think it is worth including but the 5 mana means I probably need to cut something on the top end. Possibly another Walker.
Red Cards
Nahiri's Lithoforming - This is a tough one. I like the effect and even sacrificing 2 lands gets us 2 cards and 2 extra land drops. Not spectacular by any means, but when combined with things like World Shaper and Splendid Reclamation, and just the fact that nearly half the deck is lands anyway, it is very possible this ends up being a wash when cast in that we could probably utilize the extra land drops somehow. At the very least, this seems far better than Tectonic Reformation because at least I get to play the lands with this.
Green Cards
Apex Devastator - Well, this is certainly a card. 10 mana is a massive amount of mana, even for this deck, but that effect is also very, very appealing. I don't know what I would cut, and I can't say for sure it is definitely going in, but there is a real possibility I find a slot for this card just to see what it does and have some fun with it.
Ashaya, Soul of the Wild - Because this is a land centric deck, it is worth at least mentioning Ashaya. But, her ability is basically useless. We care about ramping and do things with lands in the graveyard. We don't care much about having our creatures enter as lands or be lands on the field so she is an easy pass.
Court of Bounty - Getting more lands on the field is good, but this deck isn't quite as aggressive as others which means it might be hard to a) hold onto the crown and b) get it back once lost. With Windgrace and the potential add of Tevesh Szat, the card draw is also less impactful, which means the main thing this card does is allow for a free land every turn. Since I am not running Exploration, I don't think I can justify this.
Reshape the Earth - I can generally get to 9 mana somewhat easily and this is a way to really amp up the land count on the field. I am not doing much with Landfall (though it works wonders with Scute Swarm mentioned below) but being able to get some of my utility lands can be pretty nice. And triggering Moraug above 10 times is alright I guess
Roiling Regrowth - This is a different Harrow. It isn't necessarily worse, but it isn't better either. I do think I would rather take Harrow even with the risk of it getting countered just because the lands enter untapped. And, since I am not running Harrow, this doesn't really make the cut either.
Scute Swarm - Well, another landfall card. I think it would be pretty hard to pass up this card in this deck. The value it generates is insane and can quickly take over games if left alone for even two turns. I will be finding a spot for this somewhere.
Multicolor Cards
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shermanido37
- Posts: 301
- Joined: 4 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
I'm not a fan of this list, because the creature synergies are still a big part of it, however they're not enough to actually get you ahead.
My own Windgrace is heavier on control, repeatedly destroying the board to profit from my stuff not dying to the wraths.
My win conditions are several:
The first is Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord flinging my Multani and Ulvenwald Hydra at my opponents, while being beefy and recurrable himself. I might consider adding Ashaya, Soul of the Wild to this strategy since it's a giant body that also grants immunity to Cyclonic Rift to my nontoken creatures.
The second is Chandra, Awakened Inferno. I have more planeswalkers, and will add the two latest Nissas, but Chandra is the absolute best at ending the game. Even though it's just 1 damage per turn, it does a ton to cause the durdly players in my meta to hurry up, and as soon as she can tick up more than once, your victory is almost assured. Even though they complain that it's non-interactable, it's not like they really have any interaction anyway.
Thirdly, and like you mentioned, Kessig Wolf Run. I love it and simply sinking 1 into its X cost is enough to threaten my opponents if my creatures are fat enough.
Lastly, and mostly as a last resort, blowing up the world. While Wildfire is not quite there and still leaves people standing it usually wins games when it resolves, and Obliterate and Death Cloud do a much more decisive job at emptying out everything in play, save for my planeswalkers of course. And it's not too far fetched to aim to have World Shaper or Splendid Reclamation when resolving those effects to make them that much more of a blowout.
My own Windgrace is heavier on control, repeatedly destroying the board to profit from my stuff not dying to the wraths.
My win conditions are several:
The first is Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord flinging my Multani and Ulvenwald Hydra at my opponents, while being beefy and recurrable himself. I might consider adding Ashaya, Soul of the Wild to this strategy since it's a giant body that also grants immunity to Cyclonic Rift to my nontoken creatures.
The second is Chandra, Awakened Inferno. I have more planeswalkers, and will add the two latest Nissas, but Chandra is the absolute best at ending the game. Even though it's just 1 damage per turn, it does a ton to cause the durdly players in my meta to hurry up, and as soon as she can tick up more than once, your victory is almost assured. Even though they complain that it's non-interactable, it's not like they really have any interaction anyway.
Thirdly, and like you mentioned, Kessig Wolf Run. I love it and simply sinking 1 into its X cost is enough to threaten my opponents if my creatures are fat enough.
Lastly, and mostly as a last resort, blowing up the world. While Wildfire is not quite there and still leaves people standing it usually wins games when it resolves, and Obliterate and Death Cloud do a much more decisive job at emptying out everything in play, save for my planeswalkers of course. And it's not too far fetched to aim to have World Shaper or Splendid Reclamation when resolving those effects to make them that much more of a blowout.
And that is certainly a fine approach to have. I had built this deck a long time ago where I had gone pretty heavy into the control elements with things like Obliterate. And it worked wonderfully. It was exceptional at what it did and won quite a few games. Very often on the back of World Shaper. And it was immensely unfun. I believe I have commented on that strategy in this thread and acquiesced to its efficacy but also stated it was not a playstyle I enjoyed.
I have decided to go further into the lands aspects as much as possible. I obviously have creatures of course but even the decisions there are deliberate and focused to give the deck an actual identity that keeps it separate from my Karador list. While that might mean I have some suboptimal choices, it still allows the deck to function as its own entity rather than a derivation of another deck with a single color swapped.
Ashaya's effectiveness against Cyclonic Rift is noteworthy. But I don't often find Rift to be a significant problem. It is not an interaction I am going to slot in Ashaya for as it is narrow and 99% of the time she isn't going to do enough to warrant her place in the deck.
Jarad is a worthwhile mention and I believe it has been mentioned by others as well. At the very least, it is not a new suggestion. It is not a card I am particularly fond of, but I would find no fault in anyone deciding it is right for their list.
I have decided to go further into the lands aspects as much as possible. I obviously have creatures of course but even the decisions there are deliberate and focused to give the deck an actual identity that keeps it separate from my Karador list. While that might mean I have some suboptimal choices, it still allows the deck to function as its own entity rather than a derivation of another deck with a single color swapped.
Ashaya's effectiveness against Cyclonic Rift is noteworthy. But I don't often find Rift to be a significant problem. It is not an interaction I am going to slot in Ashaya for as it is narrow and 99% of the time she isn't going to do enough to warrant her place in the deck.
Jarad is a worthwhile mention and I believe it has been mentioned by others as well. At the very least, it is not a new suggestion. It is not a card I am particularly fond of, but I would find no fault in anyone deciding it is right for their list.
With the cards from Zendikar and Commander Legends, here are the changes I am going to make for now:
The cuts for these were a little more difficult than I expected them to be. There is a possibility a couple of these new cards aren't as good as I want them to be but I think they are at least worth trying.
Wrenn and Six was already a card I was thinking of cutting and I think it makes sense to finally do it. Crucible is being cut for a similar reason in that I don't often have lands in the graveyard I want to play that I can't get back other ways (and I still have Ramunap Excavator).
World Breaker is expensive and I don't find myself using it all that often. And Reformation I have mentioned a couple of times as just being a dud in this deck. It looks great on paper, but it is at odds with Windgrace's first ability. It works exceptionally well with Gitrog but that isn't enough to keep it.
I can't remember the last time I really got a lot of use out of Omnath. While I am adding Reshape the Earth which would be a huge boon, I am already getting multiple lands per turn and Omnath either isn't around for that or just isn't doing much. And at 7 mana, it is worth trying something else for now.
Noxious Gearhulk is expensive and I don't think is really needed anymore. I have enough wraths and I have enough spot removal that a creature based version, while nice, isn't all that great since it doesn't have flash. I might miss the life gain but I am willing to try it for now.
Reshape the Earth is highly questionable based almost entirely on the mana cost. But damn; it looks like a really fun card and I really hope I can fire it off a few times at least.
Tevesh Szat is more card draw. This may or may not make sense in this deck as I tend to get a lot of card draw from Windgrace as it is, but who doesn't like playing with new cards.
Drana is a reasonable recursion engine. While not controllable too well, it is free and is unlikely I will get anything back, beyond Lifeblood Hydra, that I really don't want. Even a Sakura Tribe Elder is fine if it is free.
Moraug just seems like a perfect card for this deck. It does rely on a bit of board presence first but combining it with Reshape the Earth seems exceptionally powerful. And, without it, I should still be able to manage 1-3 extra combats each turn.
Nahiri's Lithoforming is another reason Tevesh might not be needed. I really like this effect even though I am sacrificing lands to do it. But sacrificing all my lands (or, a bunch of them) to then be able to sac World Shaper or cast Splendid Reclamation seems like a pretty good play overall. It is one of those cards where caution is key, but it still seems like it can really do some work.
And Scute Swarm seems like an obvious include in this deck. The tokens can get out of control pretty quickly due to how many lands can enter per turn. It might be win more though, so I will keep an eye on it.
11/12/20
Approximate Total Cost:
The cuts for these were a little more difficult than I expected them to be. There is a possibility a couple of these new cards aren't as good as I want them to be but I think they are at least worth trying.
Wrenn and Six was already a card I was thinking of cutting and I think it makes sense to finally do it. Crucible is being cut for a similar reason in that I don't often have lands in the graveyard I want to play that I can't get back other ways (and I still have Ramunap Excavator).
World Breaker is expensive and I don't find myself using it all that often. And Reformation I have mentioned a couple of times as just being a dud in this deck. It looks great on paper, but it is at odds with Windgrace's first ability. It works exceptionally well with Gitrog but that isn't enough to keep it.
I can't remember the last time I really got a lot of use out of Omnath. While I am adding Reshape the Earth which would be a huge boon, I am already getting multiple lands per turn and Omnath either isn't around for that or just isn't doing much. And at 7 mana, it is worth trying something else for now.
Noxious Gearhulk is expensive and I don't think is really needed anymore. I have enough wraths and I have enough spot removal that a creature based version, while nice, isn't all that great since it doesn't have flash. I might miss the life gain but I am willing to try it for now.
Reshape the Earth is highly questionable based almost entirely on the mana cost. But damn; it looks like a really fun card and I really hope I can fire it off a few times at least.
Tevesh Szat is more card draw. This may or may not make sense in this deck as I tend to get a lot of card draw from Windgrace as it is, but who doesn't like playing with new cards.
Drana is a reasonable recursion engine. While not controllable too well, it is free and is unlikely I will get anything back, beyond Lifeblood Hydra, that I really don't want. Even a Sakura Tribe Elder is fine if it is free.
Moraug just seems like a perfect card for this deck. It does rely on a bit of board presence first but combining it with Reshape the Earth seems exceptionally powerful. And, without it, I should still be able to manage 1-3 extra combats each turn.
Nahiri's Lithoforming is another reason Tevesh might not be needed. I really like this effect even though I am sacrificing lands to do it. But sacrificing all my lands (or, a bunch of them) to then be able to sac World Shaper or cast Splendid Reclamation seems like a pretty good play overall. It is one of those cards where caution is key, but it still seems like it can really do some work.
And Scute Swarm seems like an obvious include in this deck. The tokens can get out of control pretty quickly due to how many lands can enter per turn. It might be win more though, so I will keep an eye on it.
Last edited by WizardMN 3 years ago, edited 2 times in total.
Note that not all changes listed above have been made since the cards aren't online yet
Since that game ended the way it did, I jumped into another game.
All in all, not a bad outing. Wanderer is ridiculous as there is no real way to stop it. It was removed about 6 times, which of course just fuels him. But a 7/5 "give everything haste" is hard to just leave on the board too. Having two people scoop made it quite a bit harder as well which was unfortunate.
Either way, the deck performed pretty well and nothing really stood out as something I absolutely wanted to get rid of. I did have Noxious Gearhulk in hand at the end of the game which seemed bad, so that is just another point in favor of the cut made above.
Game 1
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I played a game against Tromokratis, Balan, Wandering Knight, and Etrata, the Silencer.
I started this game with 6 lands and a Sakura-Tribe Elder. I expected to just ramp into Windgrace and start my draws. But because I was against 2 blue decks, I wanted them shields down before I tried it so I went with Yavimaya Elder and Protean Hulk before I got to casting Windgrace.
When I did, I was able to draw 6 cards off him before anyone did much to him. I got Elder Gargaroth off Hulk when Etrata tried to exile him and I cast The Gitrog Monster soon after to keep the lands going. I had to discard a number of cards but got to Bane of Progress in the process that I wanted to cast next turn.
I passed the turn and I waited for Tromokratis to attack but they didn't so I just waited for Balan's turn. I ended up casting Windgrace's Judgment but they had a Gods Willing. Which I should have known as they ended up casting Enlightened Tutor with 2 mana up instead of just activating Balan.
When I tried to destroy Balan on their turn, they just gave him Pro Black. The artifact they tutored for was Trailblazer's Boots so I couldn't block them. They ended up with a 12/? Balan with doublestrike. If I was reading things right, I would have just destroyed the equipment giving him the most power. I still would have been in a tough spot but I would have at least been alive to destroy all their equipment, as well as some of Tromokratis's stuff. Just an oversight on my part but I deserved it for not paying attention.
I did end up seeing Nahiri's Lithoforming but never really wanted to cast it. I could have easily, but it never felt right to do. Without something like World Shaper, I wonder how often I will just fire it off? I will have to just watch it for now.
I started this game with 6 lands and a Sakura-Tribe Elder. I expected to just ramp into Windgrace and start my draws. But because I was against 2 blue decks, I wanted them shields down before I tried it so I went with Yavimaya Elder and Protean Hulk before I got to casting Windgrace.
When I did, I was able to draw 6 cards off him before anyone did much to him. I got Elder Gargaroth off Hulk when Etrata tried to exile him and I cast The Gitrog Monster soon after to keep the lands going. I had to discard a number of cards but got to Bane of Progress in the process that I wanted to cast next turn.
I passed the turn and I waited for Tromokratis to attack but they didn't so I just waited for Balan's turn. I ended up casting Windgrace's Judgment but they had a Gods Willing. Which I should have known as they ended up casting Enlightened Tutor with 2 mana up instead of just activating Balan.
When I tried to destroy Balan on their turn, they just gave him Pro Black. The artifact they tutored for was Trailblazer's Boots so I couldn't block them. They ended up with a 12/? Balan with doublestrike. If I was reading things right, I would have just destroyed the equipment giving him the most power. I still would have been in a tough spot but I would have at least been alive to destroy all their equipment, as well as some of Tromokratis's stuff. Just an oversight on my part but I deserved it for not paying attention.
I did end up seeing Nahiri's Lithoforming but never really wanted to cast it. I could have easily, but it never felt right to do. Without something like World Shaper, I wonder how often I will just fire it off? I will have to just watch it for now.
Game 2
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This game was against Maelstrom Wanderer, Cromat, and Yarok, the Desecrated.
I ramped on turn 3 with Cultivate and passed on turn 4 with 5 mana up. I intended to cast Windgrace's Judgment to get something of everyone's but Yarok cast Roil Elemental to steal two creatures when they played a land and then Cromat just scooped in response to their Maelstrom Archangel being stolen. They still had an Arcum Dagsson that I was going to destroy along with Yarok, but I didn't need to.
On my turn, I just cast Last One Standing to wipe the board except a Priest of Titania which Wanderer's Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle took care of.
Yarok cast their commander again as did Wanderer. I again left open Judgment but Yarok cast Toxic Deluge to wipe the board after Valakut took out their commander again. On my turn, I just cast Windgrace into Yavimaya Dryad to ramp a little as I really wanted to get to Ulamog mana.
Here I did play a little greedy as Wanderer had a Dark Depths (but no Thespian's Stage yet) and I had a Ghost Quarter. But, I had Acidic Slime for next turn or Ulamog as a fail safe in case they did manage to get Marit Lage.
Fortunately, they were still a ways away from Marit Lage. Unfortunately, they cast Timetwister off Wanderer so I lost my hand and they refilled. However, they did end up with an Ashaya, Soul of the Wild on board which let me destroy their creatures with my Ghost Quarter (sitting in for Wasteland online since actual Wastleand is expensive). This ended up mattering in a couple cases actually. First, I blew up Ashaya as it was going after Yarok and I felt I needed Yarok alive. While the attack from Ashaya wasn't lethal, it was close so I destroyed Ashaya.
Yarok then reanimated Ashaya and stole Wanderer. Wanderer tried to bounce their general so I blew that up with Ghost Quarter (which Windgrace had gotten back for me). I had gotten rid of the Valakut with Strip Mine and used Windgrace to get both Strip Mine and Ghost Quarter back.
Yarok ended up scooping shortly after this though as they had a family emergency. Since Cromat scooped a long time ago, it was just me and Wanderer. I didn't have a board other than Windgrace and Wood Elves but I did have a Glacial Chasm I had gotten off Crop Rotation since they cast Wheel of Fortune.
I didn't get any lands in my new hand but I had a couple good cards. They killed Windgrace with Yavimaya Dryad and played a Wasteland from the top of their library. They also had Crucible of Worlds out with Azusa, Lost but Seeking and a couple other cards to let them play more than one land so I was looking at losing 5 lands per turn. Luckily, they had gotten Wasteland towards the end of their turn so they didn't activate it. Instead, they tapped it for mana. I then destroyed their Wasteland.
So I moved to my turn with not much on board. I just cast Realms Uncharted to get Bojuka Bog and Tectonic Edge. I also got Phyrexian Tower and Kessig Wolf Run. They ended up giving me Tectonic Edge and Wolf Run in hand so I played Tec Edge, blew up their Valakut they got back and then cast Splendid Reclamation to get some lands back and exile their graveyard with Bog. I still had to pass with two mana up, Chasm Online, and nothing else on board.
They cast Wanderer again and immediately got Crop Rotation to get to Strip Mine. I just scooped it up at that point since I couldn't deal with 6 lands getting blown up a turn.
I ramped on turn 3 with Cultivate and passed on turn 4 with 5 mana up. I intended to cast Windgrace's Judgment to get something of everyone's but Yarok cast Roil Elemental to steal two creatures when they played a land and then Cromat just scooped in response to their Maelstrom Archangel being stolen. They still had an Arcum Dagsson that I was going to destroy along with Yarok, but I didn't need to.
On my turn, I just cast Last One Standing to wipe the board except a Priest of Titania which Wanderer's Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle took care of.
Yarok cast their commander again as did Wanderer. I again left open Judgment but Yarok cast Toxic Deluge to wipe the board after Valakut took out their commander again. On my turn, I just cast Windgrace into Yavimaya Dryad to ramp a little as I really wanted to get to Ulamog mana.
Here I did play a little greedy as Wanderer had a Dark Depths (but no Thespian's Stage yet) and I had a Ghost Quarter. But, I had Acidic Slime for next turn or Ulamog as a fail safe in case they did manage to get Marit Lage.
Fortunately, they were still a ways away from Marit Lage. Unfortunately, they cast Timetwister off Wanderer so I lost my hand and they refilled. However, they did end up with an Ashaya, Soul of the Wild on board which let me destroy their creatures with my Ghost Quarter (sitting in for Wasteland online since actual Wastleand is expensive). This ended up mattering in a couple cases actually. First, I blew up Ashaya as it was going after Yarok and I felt I needed Yarok alive. While the attack from Ashaya wasn't lethal, it was close so I destroyed Ashaya.
Yarok then reanimated Ashaya and stole Wanderer. Wanderer tried to bounce their general so I blew that up with Ghost Quarter (which Windgrace had gotten back for me). I had gotten rid of the Valakut with Strip Mine and used Windgrace to get both Strip Mine and Ghost Quarter back.
Yarok ended up scooping shortly after this though as they had a family emergency. Since Cromat scooped a long time ago, it was just me and Wanderer. I didn't have a board other than Windgrace and Wood Elves but I did have a Glacial Chasm I had gotten off Crop Rotation since they cast Wheel of Fortune.
I didn't get any lands in my new hand but I had a couple good cards. They killed Windgrace with Yavimaya Dryad and played a Wasteland from the top of their library. They also had Crucible of Worlds out with Azusa, Lost but Seeking and a couple other cards to let them play more than one land so I was looking at losing 5 lands per turn. Luckily, they had gotten Wasteland towards the end of their turn so they didn't activate it. Instead, they tapped it for mana. I then destroyed their Wasteland.
So I moved to my turn with not much on board. I just cast Realms Uncharted to get Bojuka Bog and Tectonic Edge. I also got Phyrexian Tower and Kessig Wolf Run. They ended up giving me Tectonic Edge and Wolf Run in hand so I played Tec Edge, blew up their Valakut they got back and then cast Splendid Reclamation to get some lands back and exile their graveyard with Bog. I still had to pass with two mana up, Chasm Online, and nothing else on board.
They cast Wanderer again and immediately got Crop Rotation to get to Strip Mine. I just scooped it up at that point since I couldn't deal with 6 lands getting blown up a turn.
Either way, the deck performed pretty well and nothing really stood out as something I absolutely wanted to get rid of. I did have Noxious Gearhulk in hand at the end of the game which seemed bad, so that is just another point in favor of the cut made above.
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shermanido37
- Posts: 301
- Joined: 4 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
I'm absolutely baffled by some of your choices. I mean really, putting Nissa of Shadowed Boughs in Karador but not here?
Nahiri's Lithoforming and Reshape the Earth also strike me as super win more. Slotting them in while slotting out Omnath, Locus of Rage is just so counterintuitive to me - having a wall of 5/5s to block that scary 7/5 could have helped you out quite a bit. Also, without a wall of giant creatures, who is Moraug, Fury of Akoum going to give additional combat phases to?
Also, as long as you have fetchlands and company, slotting out land synergy is just surreal to me. I mean sure, perhaps you don't want to strip mine lock people like your opponents did, but your commander is a champion at making sure you'll have lands in the yard. Why not just play them from there?
Nahiri's Lithoforming and Reshape the Earth also strike me as super win more. Slotting them in while slotting out Omnath, Locus of Rage is just so counterintuitive to me - having a wall of 5/5s to block that scary 7/5 could have helped you out quite a bit. Also, without a wall of giant creatures, who is Moraug, Fury of Akoum going to give additional combat phases to?
Also, as long as you have fetchlands and company, slotting out land synergy is just surreal to me. I mean sure, perhaps you don't want to strip mine lock people like your opponents did, but your commander is a champion at making sure you'll have lands in the yard. Why not just play them from there?
Ok, there is a lot to take in there so I will try to get to everything:
I admit Nissa is an oversight. I even called her out in my set summary as a card I wanted to include. I just forgot about her.
Lithoforming is meant to be a source of card draw but probably isn't needed. This deck isn't really hurting for card draw. Reshape probably is win-more. I admit that Lithoforming's first outing was pretty poor, but both just seemed like fun cards and, frankly, I just wanted to have a little fun with new cards. And Lithoforming only made sense in this deck so I figured why not try it.
And yes, I realize both work exceptionally well with Omnath but, if I have already acquiesced to Reshape being more for fun than power and potentially being cut then working with Omnath isn't all that relevant. And I am leaning towards Lithoforming not being needed either.
Regarding Omnath: First, it was still in the deck in the game I played since I didn't have the new Commander Legends cards. And I never drew it so having a wall of 5/5s was possible, but never happened. It definitely would have helped against Wanderer, but I didn't lose to being attacked. I don't think I ever actually got hit with Wanderer. I lost to a Strip Mine lock and having a bunch of 5/5s probably wouldn't have helped with that. Up until that point I did a lot to stay alive and keep them in check.
The fact that I lost doesn't mean Omnath would have let me win. Maybe, if I got him at the exact right time, but I was doing fairly well until the Strip Mine lock. I don't think he would have done much unless I got him super early on and, even then, he would have just been removed. There was plenty of removal flying in that game.
So, I don't take that loss to mean anything regarding Omnath because Omnath didn't do anything.
And yes, removing it while having Moraug does limit the number of creatures that are useful for combat. Which, to be honest, might be a strike against Moraug. While Scute Swarm is meant to sort of replace Omnath, with being lower to the ground to get more use out of the early land drops, if Moraug is only good with one or two other cards, then he isn't good. Which, I am fine with. Again, new cards=wanting to have fun with them and I have no problems cutting them again.
But, I gave my reasons for cutting him above and I stand by those reasons. Whether there are other cards that are questionable is certainly worthy of discussion but I don't think cutting him is that far out of the realm of possibility. I have played the deck with him for a while and he has always been underwhelming for me. He "makes sense" in the deck but I wanted to try without him. Making sense in the deck and being right for the deck (at least, for my build) aren't necessarily the same thing. I might come back to wanting him; no cuts are ever off the table for a return after all. But it seems right to me.
And, finally, on Crucible: I gave my reasons for this above as well. Even in the game I just played, there was basically never a time where Crucible would have made any significant impact. I already had lands to play, Windgrace got me back others when I wanted to ramp (which I couldn't have done if I had been playing them) and Splendid Reclamation offered a mass "reanimation" of lands. While Crucible works fine, it is not good enough and I stand by the decision to cut it. Being synergistic isn't enough, especially when I won't get a ton of use out of that synergy. If I decided to go further into things like Azusa, Oracle, Dryad, Exploration, etc. then it makes a lot more sense. But it isn't what I am doing so, for what I am doing, Crucible isn't worth the slot.
As I said, I have Ramunap still if I want the effect, but I rarely get Crucible as it is, and have never felt that getting it would have done anything.
I am fine with some of the new cards being wrong or even the cuts being wrong. I even said as much regarding Reshape in my summary above so it is not like I am expecting it to be some powerhouse that wins me games. At some point, just wanting to have fun with new cards is worth the deck being a little less powerful or consistent or whatever. Since I am not playing for prizes here, I lose literally nothing by potentially making my deck worse with their inclusion just to try things out. Reshape basically started on the chopping block and will likely be removed after I get to cast it once. But I still wanted to play it.
On a sort of related note: this may be a transformational period for the deck. I am noticing I am lower on the creature count than I typically like and while I only have 5 walkers (with Nissa and Tevesh Szat), it is still far more than any other deck I have. And I am not sure where everything will end up. While I want to have fun with new cards, I think the deck may warrant a bit of an review after a few weeks (after I have my fun) to see where I really want to go with it.
I am obviously never going to move back into MLD but there are a number of ways I can take things in the deck. I have never felt that the deck is bad or even underperforming. It can stick it out for the long game most of the time, but things like Erebos or Lithoforming might not be needed as I have other card draw. Maybe Tevesh Szat's abilities just aren't good enough. Maybe Moraug is more "cute" than effective. Maybe I don't need Liliana or Garruk since they are a little higher on the curve. Maybe Pernicious Deed isn't as good without a way to recur it like Sun Titan.
In any case, I am more willing to try some riskier stuff and attempt some "testing" online since I have all the time in the world to do so. I don't get to play in person anymore so I don't really care if I lose 20 games in a row due to my potentially questionable inclusions/exclusions. At least I can take the time to really test things out and get a feel for everything, even if I am pretty sure I already know how certain cards will pan out (as is probably the case for Reshape).
I admit Nissa is an oversight. I even called her out in my set summary as a card I wanted to include. I just forgot about her.
Lithoforming is meant to be a source of card draw but probably isn't needed. This deck isn't really hurting for card draw. Reshape probably is win-more. I admit that Lithoforming's first outing was pretty poor, but both just seemed like fun cards and, frankly, I just wanted to have a little fun with new cards. And Lithoforming only made sense in this deck so I figured why not try it.
And yes, I realize both work exceptionally well with Omnath but, if I have already acquiesced to Reshape being more for fun than power and potentially being cut then working with Omnath isn't all that relevant. And I am leaning towards Lithoforming not being needed either.
Regarding Omnath: First, it was still in the deck in the game I played since I didn't have the new Commander Legends cards. And I never drew it so having a wall of 5/5s was possible, but never happened. It definitely would have helped against Wanderer, but I didn't lose to being attacked. I don't think I ever actually got hit with Wanderer. I lost to a Strip Mine lock and having a bunch of 5/5s probably wouldn't have helped with that. Up until that point I did a lot to stay alive and keep them in check.
The fact that I lost doesn't mean Omnath would have let me win. Maybe, if I got him at the exact right time, but I was doing fairly well until the Strip Mine lock. I don't think he would have done much unless I got him super early on and, even then, he would have just been removed. There was plenty of removal flying in that game.
So, I don't take that loss to mean anything regarding Omnath because Omnath didn't do anything.
And yes, removing it while having Moraug does limit the number of creatures that are useful for combat. Which, to be honest, might be a strike against Moraug. While Scute Swarm is meant to sort of replace Omnath, with being lower to the ground to get more use out of the early land drops, if Moraug is only good with one or two other cards, then he isn't good. Which, I am fine with. Again, new cards=wanting to have fun with them and I have no problems cutting them again.
But, I gave my reasons for cutting him above and I stand by those reasons. Whether there are other cards that are questionable is certainly worthy of discussion but I don't think cutting him is that far out of the realm of possibility. I have played the deck with him for a while and he has always been underwhelming for me. He "makes sense" in the deck but I wanted to try without him. Making sense in the deck and being right for the deck (at least, for my build) aren't necessarily the same thing. I might come back to wanting him; no cuts are ever off the table for a return after all. But it seems right to me.
And, finally, on Crucible: I gave my reasons for this above as well. Even in the game I just played, there was basically never a time where Crucible would have made any significant impact. I already had lands to play, Windgrace got me back others when I wanted to ramp (which I couldn't have done if I had been playing them) and Splendid Reclamation offered a mass "reanimation" of lands. While Crucible works fine, it is not good enough and I stand by the decision to cut it. Being synergistic isn't enough, especially when I won't get a ton of use out of that synergy. If I decided to go further into things like Azusa, Oracle, Dryad, Exploration, etc. then it makes a lot more sense. But it isn't what I am doing so, for what I am doing, Crucible isn't worth the slot.
As I said, I have Ramunap still if I want the effect, but I rarely get Crucible as it is, and have never felt that getting it would have done anything.
I am fine with some of the new cards being wrong or even the cuts being wrong. I even said as much regarding Reshape in my summary above so it is not like I am expecting it to be some powerhouse that wins me games. At some point, just wanting to have fun with new cards is worth the deck being a little less powerful or consistent or whatever. Since I am not playing for prizes here, I lose literally nothing by potentially making my deck worse with their inclusion just to try things out. Reshape basically started on the chopping block and will likely be removed after I get to cast it once. But I still wanted to play it.
On a sort of related note: this may be a transformational period for the deck. I am noticing I am lower on the creature count than I typically like and while I only have 5 walkers (with Nissa and Tevesh Szat), it is still far more than any other deck I have. And I am not sure where everything will end up. While I want to have fun with new cards, I think the deck may warrant a bit of an review after a few weeks (after I have my fun) to see where I really want to go with it.
I am obviously never going to move back into MLD but there are a number of ways I can take things in the deck. I have never felt that the deck is bad or even underperforming. It can stick it out for the long game most of the time, but things like Erebos or Lithoforming might not be needed as I have other card draw. Maybe Tevesh Szat's abilities just aren't good enough. Maybe Moraug is more "cute" than effective. Maybe I don't need Liliana or Garruk since they are a little higher on the curve. Maybe Pernicious Deed isn't as good without a way to recur it like Sun Titan.
In any case, I am more willing to try some riskier stuff and attempt some "testing" online since I have all the time in the world to do so. I don't get to play in person anymore so I don't really care if I lose 20 games in a row due to my potentially questionable inclusions/exclusions. At least I can take the time to really test things out and get a feel for everything, even if I am pretty sure I already know how certain cards will pan out (as is probably the case for Reshape).
I got another game in tonight with this deck. It was against Chainer, Dementia Master, Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient, and Torbran, Thane of Red Fell.
I mulliganed once and started with 4 lands, Sakura, Wood Elves, and Assassin's Trophy. Worth noting, one land was Bazaar so I only had 3 mana. I cast Sakura and ramped and then next turn cast Wood Elves and played a land, intending to keep up mana for Trophy after getting a Bayou. But I stupidly clicked through the search and didn't find a land.
In the mean time, the only thing relevant that was happening was Chainer had Jet Medallion and was casting spells to fill their yard.
So, I started turn 5 with 5 mana and cast Windgrace. Torbran scooped for not drawing lands. I discarded Bazaar and didn't get another land so I was still at 5.
Chainer ended up casting Living Death which was sort of fine. I got back Sakura and ramped again. They got K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth and Rune-Scarred Demon as their main cards. They cast Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed and got back Living Death.
During this time, I did have Reclamation Sage in hand but never a good time to use it. I ended up destroying K'rrik with Murderous Rider // Swift End to be sure they had to pay actual mana and then left up Assassin's Trophy to protect Windgrace.
Next turn, I cast Evolution Sage and played a land and passed, still holding up Assassin's Trophy but also having Bazaar that I just played, which I got back with Loam. This way if Chainer wanted to fire off Living Death, I would at least have something on board. I also had an Entomb in hand but I couldn't figure out what I actually wanted to Entomb for if it came down to it. I was leaning towards Hulk but I had no sac outlet. Omnath was probably the right choice, but it still felt really weird that I didn't have an idea of what I actually wanted. Nothing seemed all that good there if they got back a bunch of creatures.
Life from the Loam came in big here to ensure I kept hitting land drops and having lands to pitch to Windgrace. Chainer kept trying to set up some massive graveyard reanimation and Kurkesh cast, and activated, Memory Jar which they copied. We set aside our hands twice and saw 14 new cards. This actually wasn't too bad for Chainer as they would really fill their yard. However, on the second set of 7, I saw Crop Rotation. I cast it and got Bojuka Bog exiling Chainer's yard.
Now, there is a situation here that MTGO messed up. With Memory Jar, there were two delayed triggers since the activated ability was copied. Because the delayed triggers are set up as part of the activated ability resolving, each should only be tied to the cards that activated ability exiled. MTGO, though, brought all the cards back when the first trigger resolved causing the second trigger to cause us all to discard our hands.
Not the expected outcome, and I am not even sure if Kurkesh's controller could see which trigger was which (they probably wanted to make sure Living Death was discarded just to be sure) but this bug ended up working out exceptionally well in my favor.
Next turn I dredged back Loam and picked up lands to play and discard. I drew 2 off Windgrace, I played a land, adding a counter to Windgrace, and then I ultimated him, leaving him at 2 counters. I blew up the Medallion, Phyrexian Altar (both from Chainer), Kurkesh, and some artifact on their board. I ended up with 6 Cats and the Sage on a mostly empty board with no cards in anyone's hands.
I passed and hoped neither player could do anything. They couldn't so I started my turn and dredged back Life from the Loam. I picked up 3 lands and pitched one to Windgrace again. This time, I picked up, and played Strip Mine and then Strip Mined my Bojuka Bog. I returned both Bog and Strip Mine with Windgrace. That was 3 lands to trigger Sage so Windgrace was at a bunch of counters at this point. And I Bogged Chainer again just to be sure since Jar filled their library again. I swung at Chainer with the cats.
Next turn, I got back my Noxious Gearhulk with Volrath's Stronghold and blew up Kurkesh that they had recast and then swung everything into Kurkesh. They scooped at this point.
Chainer started their turn and got nothing so they scooped too.
Now, the modo bug really got us here but I was ecstatic to be able to recover from that as well as I had. It was weird that Chainer never tried to attach Windgrace as that would have at least cut me off from those Cats and kept their permanents alive. I think that was a misplay for sure that benefitted my also.
The ability to use Life from the Loam with Windgrace to refill my hand was good, and Gearhulk was nice here, though I am not sure he changed a lot as he only blew up Kurkesh when they had nothing in hand.
Not a whole lot to say here. I saw Gearhulk which is a cut I mentioned above so I won't say whether that is a good cut or not. But the biggest takeaway I have here is the card draw. Again, Windgrace wasn't really focused on so he could stick around and keep drawing me cards. And Life from the Loam was a big part of that. Without both, I would have been in a tougher situation. But, with them, it shows the deck can manage to keep the cards flowing for the most part. Which might suggest Lithoforming is not good enough (I touched on this in the last game) and Tevesh Szat might be overkill, especially at 5 mana (I still want to try him out of course),
I did see Moraug and pitched him almost immediately. This deck is meant to be a little more aggressive than Karador but it is still lends itself to more deliberate plays and cautious plays or controlling plays. As such, it is not likely to really get a massive board state. Now, if Living Death had fired off, the story might have been different, but in a general sense, I might be expecting too much of him in this deck. As it is, my comment about him being "perfect for this deck" might be overstating things a little without a rehaul of the creature suite.
As I said above, he does only seem to work well with Omnath and Scute Swarm, which I haven't seen yet. And Omnath I am still fine with cutting for now.
Speaking of Omnath though: as I navigate through some of the newer cards I have seen as well as the ones I have yet to add, it is starting to look like everything but Scute Swarm and maybe Drana aren't going to stick around. That means 4 more cuts I would need to make to find other cards to put back in. One of those will be Nissa, but the other 3 are up in the air. It is possible Omnath makes his way back in; I am not sure yet. If he does, there are still two other slots I need to make up for. And I am starting to realize I really miss a False Prophet type card in this deck. That is, a creature that can somehow wrath the board.
I don't really know what I want though. Most things are -X/-X effects which are fine but the ones I can think of cap themselves at like -3/-3 or something. Kagemaro, First to Suffer scales but I am not sure if I want to be that reliant on having my hand full. Maybe something like Archfiend of Depravity? I don't know that is good enough either though.
Maybe I just need to settle for something like Sidisi, Undead Vizier to get to a Sorcery wrath and leave it at that. But I would still rather it be on the creature itself so I will keep my eye out for that.
I mulliganed once and started with 4 lands, Sakura, Wood Elves, and Assassin's Trophy. Worth noting, one land was Bazaar so I only had 3 mana. I cast Sakura and ramped and then next turn cast Wood Elves and played a land, intending to keep up mana for Trophy after getting a Bayou. But I stupidly clicked through the search and didn't find a land.
In the mean time, the only thing relevant that was happening was Chainer had Jet Medallion and was casting spells to fill their yard.
So, I started turn 5 with 5 mana and cast Windgrace. Torbran scooped for not drawing lands. I discarded Bazaar and didn't get another land so I was still at 5.
Chainer ended up casting Living Death which was sort of fine. I got back Sakura and ramped again. They got K'rrik, Son of Yawgmoth and Rune-Scarred Demon as their main cards. They cast Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed and got back Living Death.
During this time, I did have Reclamation Sage in hand but never a good time to use it. I ended up destroying K'rrik with Murderous Rider // Swift End to be sure they had to pay actual mana and then left up Assassin's Trophy to protect Windgrace.
Next turn, I cast Evolution Sage and played a land and passed, still holding up Assassin's Trophy but also having Bazaar that I just played, which I got back with Loam. This way if Chainer wanted to fire off Living Death, I would at least have something on board. I also had an Entomb in hand but I couldn't figure out what I actually wanted to Entomb for if it came down to it. I was leaning towards Hulk but I had no sac outlet. Omnath was probably the right choice, but it still felt really weird that I didn't have an idea of what I actually wanted. Nothing seemed all that good there if they got back a bunch of creatures.
Life from the Loam came in big here to ensure I kept hitting land drops and having lands to pitch to Windgrace. Chainer kept trying to set up some massive graveyard reanimation and Kurkesh cast, and activated, Memory Jar which they copied. We set aside our hands twice and saw 14 new cards. This actually wasn't too bad for Chainer as they would really fill their yard. However, on the second set of 7, I saw Crop Rotation. I cast it and got Bojuka Bog exiling Chainer's yard.
Now, there is a situation here that MTGO messed up. With Memory Jar, there were two delayed triggers since the activated ability was copied. Because the delayed triggers are set up as part of the activated ability resolving, each should only be tied to the cards that activated ability exiled. MTGO, though, brought all the cards back when the first trigger resolved causing the second trigger to cause us all to discard our hands.
Not the expected outcome, and I am not even sure if Kurkesh's controller could see which trigger was which (they probably wanted to make sure Living Death was discarded just to be sure) but this bug ended up working out exceptionally well in my favor.
Next turn I dredged back Loam and picked up lands to play and discard. I drew 2 off Windgrace, I played a land, adding a counter to Windgrace, and then I ultimated him, leaving him at 2 counters. I blew up the Medallion, Phyrexian Altar (both from Chainer), Kurkesh, and some artifact on their board. I ended up with 6 Cats and the Sage on a mostly empty board with no cards in anyone's hands.
I passed and hoped neither player could do anything. They couldn't so I started my turn and dredged back Life from the Loam. I picked up 3 lands and pitched one to Windgrace again. This time, I picked up, and played Strip Mine and then Strip Mined my Bojuka Bog. I returned both Bog and Strip Mine with Windgrace. That was 3 lands to trigger Sage so Windgrace was at a bunch of counters at this point. And I Bogged Chainer again just to be sure since Jar filled their library again. I swung at Chainer with the cats.
Next turn, I got back my Noxious Gearhulk with Volrath's Stronghold and blew up Kurkesh that they had recast and then swung everything into Kurkesh. They scooped at this point.
Chainer started their turn and got nothing so they scooped too.
Now, the modo bug really got us here but I was ecstatic to be able to recover from that as well as I had. It was weird that Chainer never tried to attach Windgrace as that would have at least cut me off from those Cats and kept their permanents alive. I think that was a misplay for sure that benefitted my also.
The ability to use Life from the Loam with Windgrace to refill my hand was good, and Gearhulk was nice here, though I am not sure he changed a lot as he only blew up Kurkesh when they had nothing in hand.
Not a whole lot to say here. I saw Gearhulk which is a cut I mentioned above so I won't say whether that is a good cut or not. But the biggest takeaway I have here is the card draw. Again, Windgrace wasn't really focused on so he could stick around and keep drawing me cards. And Life from the Loam was a big part of that. Without both, I would have been in a tougher situation. But, with them, it shows the deck can manage to keep the cards flowing for the most part. Which might suggest Lithoforming is not good enough (I touched on this in the last game) and Tevesh Szat might be overkill, especially at 5 mana (I still want to try him out of course),
I did see Moraug and pitched him almost immediately. This deck is meant to be a little more aggressive than Karador but it is still lends itself to more deliberate plays and cautious plays or controlling plays. As such, it is not likely to really get a massive board state. Now, if Living Death had fired off, the story might have been different, but in a general sense, I might be expecting too much of him in this deck. As it is, my comment about him being "perfect for this deck" might be overstating things a little without a rehaul of the creature suite.
As I said above, he does only seem to work well with Omnath and Scute Swarm, which I haven't seen yet. And Omnath I am still fine with cutting for now.
Speaking of Omnath though: as I navigate through some of the newer cards I have seen as well as the ones I have yet to add, it is starting to look like everything but Scute Swarm and maybe Drana aren't going to stick around. That means 4 more cuts I would need to make to find other cards to put back in. One of those will be Nissa, but the other 3 are up in the air. It is possible Omnath makes his way back in; I am not sure yet. If he does, there are still two other slots I need to make up for. And I am starting to realize I really miss a False Prophet type card in this deck. That is, a creature that can somehow wrath the board.
I don't really know what I want though. Most things are -X/-X effects which are fine but the ones I can think of cap themselves at like -3/-3 or something. Kagemaro, First to Suffer scales but I am not sure if I want to be that reliant on having my hand full. Maybe something like Archfiend of Depravity? I don't know that is good enough either though.
Maybe I just need to settle for something like Sidisi, Undead Vizier to get to a Sorcery wrath and leave it at that. But I would still rather it be on the creature itself so I will keep my eye out for that.
Last edited by WizardMN 3 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Looking back through my thread for Karador (all the way back on MTG Salvation) I realized I had Crypt Rats in that deck and it was one of the more fun/useful cards in the deck for a while. Now, I have cut it in Karador because the deck doesn't need it, but it honestly seems like a reasonable card to include to cover my situation I described above where sometimes I just want to get a wrath effect off Hulk or have some way to recur a wrath effect. Since it doesn't kill Windgrace it can do some reasonable work here if I need a wrath effect.
I will probably just work on adding it in a couple weeks from now when I do a further review of the deck (which may or may not be part of a larger overhaul to the deck) but I didn't want to forget about it entirely so I figured I would add a note for myself.
I will probably just work on adding it in a couple weeks from now when I do a further review of the deck (which may or may not be part of a larger overhaul to the deck) but I didn't want to forget about it entirely so I figured I would add a note for myself.
Well, damn... I played another game with this deck and it is the worst it has ever performed by a considerable margin.
I played against Rebbec, Architect of Ascension & Ich-Tekik, Salvage Splicer parners, Kodama of the East Tree & Kraum, Ludevic's Opus partners, and Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder. My first hand had 3 lands but they were Glacial Chasm, Bazaar of Baghdad, and Overgrown Tomb. No ramp either though with only one mana producing land, I wasn't keeping anyway.
The next hand had 2 lands with a Forest and Cinder Glade but again no ramp aad I had Protean Hulk, Spike Weaver, and Gitrog, so not very good. I spun the wheel again and got a hand with Diamond Valley and Winding Canyons along with Ulamog, Lifeblood Hydra, and Elder Gargaroth. So, I had no choice but to mull again and this time I got Strip Mine, GLacial Chasm, and Canyon Slough. For a deck with 44 lands, these were just awful mulligans but I couldn't go do down to 4 so I kept it.
I threw away the Chasm and a Liliana and drew a Toxic Deluge. Next turn I drew a land and then one more, but I missed 3 land drops by turn 8. So, effectively, I did nothing all game. I did cast Deluge to clear the board since I seemed to be the target of Yidris for some reason (Kodama was opened too) and then I cast a Thrashing Brontodon with mana up to blow something up.
Yidris tried to go off with Emergent Ultimatum and Palinchron (they got the latter off a Sunbird's Invocation) and Kodama countered with Mystic Confluence. Unfortunately, Confluence has a bug and it only countered the Palinchron. I blew up the Aetherflux Reservoir they got but they just got it back with E Witness after casting Mind's Desire.
Kodama did eventually kill them but then Kodama was out of control with Seedborn Muse, Leyline of Anticipation, Terror of the Peaks, and Consecrated Sphinx. I tried to cast Damnation but they countered it and I just scooped it up.
It was, frankly, sort of astounding how poorly the mulligans went. These things happen of course, but 4 hands with no more than 2 mana producing lands in each was just awful. I know I have a fair number of utility lands, but to see them in each hand was frustrating. Going up against Storm and whatever Kodama is didn't help matters.
Maybe my next game goes a little better.
I played against Rebbec, Architect of Ascension & Ich-Tekik, Salvage Splicer parners, Kodama of the East Tree & Kraum, Ludevic's Opus partners, and Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder. My first hand had 3 lands but they were Glacial Chasm, Bazaar of Baghdad, and Overgrown Tomb. No ramp either though with only one mana producing land, I wasn't keeping anyway.
The next hand had 2 lands with a Forest and Cinder Glade but again no ramp aad I had Protean Hulk, Spike Weaver, and Gitrog, so not very good. I spun the wheel again and got a hand with Diamond Valley and Winding Canyons along with Ulamog, Lifeblood Hydra, and Elder Gargaroth. So, I had no choice but to mull again and this time I got Strip Mine, GLacial Chasm, and Canyon Slough. For a deck with 44 lands, these were just awful mulligans but I couldn't go do down to 4 so I kept it.
I threw away the Chasm and a Liliana and drew a Toxic Deluge. Next turn I drew a land and then one more, but I missed 3 land drops by turn 8. So, effectively, I did nothing all game. I did cast Deluge to clear the board since I seemed to be the target of Yidris for some reason (Kodama was opened too) and then I cast a Thrashing Brontodon with mana up to blow something up.
Yidris tried to go off with Emergent Ultimatum and Palinchron (they got the latter off a Sunbird's Invocation) and Kodama countered with Mystic Confluence. Unfortunately, Confluence has a bug and it only countered the Palinchron. I blew up the Aetherflux Reservoir they got but they just got it back with E Witness after casting Mind's Desire.
Kodama did eventually kill them but then Kodama was out of control with Seedborn Muse, Leyline of Anticipation, Terror of the Peaks, and Consecrated Sphinx. I tried to cast Damnation but they countered it and I just scooped it up.
It was, frankly, sort of astounding how poorly the mulligans went. These things happen of course, but 4 hands with no more than 2 mana producing lands in each was just awful. I know I have a fair number of utility lands, but to see them in each hand was frustrating. Going up against Storm and whatever Kodama is didn't help matters.
Maybe my next game goes a little better.
I played another game vs Wyleth, Soul of Steel, Azusa, Lost but Seeking, and Vilis, Broker of Blood. It is late so I am not going to do into a lot of detail.
I kept a better hand and Vilis ended up being the main threat early on. One thing I found weird was that Azusa clearly telegraphed that they were playing Eldrazi and yet they weren't attacked when they could have been. This probably didn't mean much, but they probably should have been targeted earlier.
I got Tevesh and Windgrace down. Windgrace did a lot to draw me cards and Tevesh actually did pretty decent for his first outing. I ended up drawing 4 cards off him which was really important since Vilis cracked a Mindslicer. It was also important that he had an odd CMC since Azusa had Void Winnower.
I tried to use Protean Hulk a couple times in this game when it was just me and Azusa but I had nothing in my deck that could do anything. They had Kozilek and I did miss Noxious Gearhulk. It would have helped gain me life by blowing up Kozilek which then would have gotten me enough like to cast Toxic Deluge to deal with Ulamog. And I wouldn't have lost 8 permanents in the process.
But, that didn't happen and they cast Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger after that anyway to clear Windgrace and Tevesh Szat so the game was over.
This really goes back to needing some sort of wrath I can tutor with Hulk. And I don't think there is one. Or, there isn't one that would have mattered here probably since I would have needed it to deal with indestructible creatures. It did feel pretty bad to search my library with Hulk twice and still come up blank (I got a Spike Weaver but that is useless against annihilator).
I did get Omnath in this game and got a token. It died to Living Death almost immediately. Again, not a very good outing for the card. And it is only hear because I don't want to pay for Reshape the Earth online yet.
Nahiri's Lithomancing made an appearance and I would have fired it off since I had Protean Hulk in play with a Diamond Valley but Void Winnower meant I couldn't cast anything I might have wanted to and I only had one sac outlet so getting World Shaper off Hulk wouldn't have been good enough. I really wanted to cast it though since my hand had been emptied but I think it would have been too risky.
And, finally, Glacial Chasm was, yet again, a star in this game. I ended up paying 20 life into it unfortunately. I had to pay the last 8 into it because of Mindslicer and potentially just losing to Azusa (Vilis did this in response to being attacked for lethal so I didn't need to worry about them anymore).
I still want to re-tool this deck as it is getting a little muddied in terms of what its game plan is. I have no idea what that means though. I know I want to stay away from MLD and reanimator. And I just don't like token swarms for the most part. I am starting to think @pokken's comments on Multani and Ulvenwald Hydra could be looked at some more. I like Hydra for the land tutor, but Multani might make sense to cut, depending on where I end up with this deck.
Maybe I should look at Ob Nixilis, the Fallen as well as a way to end the game. I don't have a lot of ways to enable him, and very few ways beyond Hulk to actually get him, but Lithoforming, Splendid Reclamation, and World Shaper can make him work well. I could go back to the idea of adding Scapeshift as well.
Though, speaking of Scapeshift, maybe adding that and Field of the Dead could be enough? It is slow for sure, unless I add haste enablers, but that could be a massive swing if I can pull it off. I might need to just really lean into the "lands matter" aspect of the deck and hope it doesn't become as repetitive as Gitrog (which is the reason I left out Ob Nixilis). I don't really know yet.
I kept a better hand and Vilis ended up being the main threat early on. One thing I found weird was that Azusa clearly telegraphed that they were playing Eldrazi and yet they weren't attacked when they could have been. This probably didn't mean much, but they probably should have been targeted earlier.
I got Tevesh and Windgrace down. Windgrace did a lot to draw me cards and Tevesh actually did pretty decent for his first outing. I ended up drawing 4 cards off him which was really important since Vilis cracked a Mindslicer. It was also important that he had an odd CMC since Azusa had Void Winnower.
I tried to use Protean Hulk a couple times in this game when it was just me and Azusa but I had nothing in my deck that could do anything. They had Kozilek and I did miss Noxious Gearhulk. It would have helped gain me life by blowing up Kozilek which then would have gotten me enough like to cast Toxic Deluge to deal with Ulamog. And I wouldn't have lost 8 permanents in the process.
But, that didn't happen and they cast Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger after that anyway to clear Windgrace and Tevesh Szat so the game was over.
This really goes back to needing some sort of wrath I can tutor with Hulk. And I don't think there is one. Or, there isn't one that would have mattered here probably since I would have needed it to deal with indestructible creatures. It did feel pretty bad to search my library with Hulk twice and still come up blank (I got a Spike Weaver but that is useless against annihilator).
I did get Omnath in this game and got a token. It died to Living Death almost immediately. Again, not a very good outing for the card. And it is only hear because I don't want to pay for Reshape the Earth online yet.
Nahiri's Lithomancing made an appearance and I would have fired it off since I had Protean Hulk in play with a Diamond Valley but Void Winnower meant I couldn't cast anything I might have wanted to and I only had one sac outlet so getting World Shaper off Hulk wouldn't have been good enough. I really wanted to cast it though since my hand had been emptied but I think it would have been too risky.
And, finally, Glacial Chasm was, yet again, a star in this game. I ended up paying 20 life into it unfortunately. I had to pay the last 8 into it because of Mindslicer and potentially just losing to Azusa (Vilis did this in response to being attacked for lethal so I didn't need to worry about them anymore).
I still want to re-tool this deck as it is getting a little muddied in terms of what its game plan is. I have no idea what that means though. I know I want to stay away from MLD and reanimator. And I just don't like token swarms for the most part. I am starting to think @pokken's comments on Multani and Ulvenwald Hydra could be looked at some more. I like Hydra for the land tutor, but Multani might make sense to cut, depending on where I end up with this deck.
Maybe I should look at Ob Nixilis, the Fallen as well as a way to end the game. I don't have a lot of ways to enable him, and very few ways beyond Hulk to actually get him, but Lithoforming, Splendid Reclamation, and World Shaper can make him work well. I could go back to the idea of adding Scapeshift as well.
Though, speaking of Scapeshift, maybe adding that and Field of the Dead could be enough? It is slow for sure, unless I add haste enablers, but that could be a massive swing if I can pull it off. I might need to just really lean into the "lands matter" aspect of the deck and hope it doesn't become as repetitive as Gitrog (which is the reason I left out Ob Nixilis). I don't really know yet.
I have spent a lot of time trying to build a Windgrace deck I was happy with that wasn't either generic landfall shenanigans (omnath, rampaging baloths, et. al.) or grindy MLD. I love lands decks and so I have spent a ton of calories brewcrafting various builds of different commanders.
For a while I thought Windgrace made the most sense as a superfriends deck but the issue is most of the walkers in his colors really don't benefit that too much; they tend to just be much worse versions of the Landfall stuff that fortunately survives sweepers, and really want you to play a bunch of creatures.
Ultimately I think the tension of Windgrace wanting an empty board and Lands stuff wanting creatures that take advantage of the land drops and Jund colors generally not being very good at stuff other than creatures lead me to the conclusion that there isn't really a deck there without Jokulhaups - at least not for me.
The two styles that kind of appeal to me with WIndgrace (Spellslinger and Enchantress) both really want you to be doing MLD. The two-card combo of Splendid Reclamation + Jokulhaups is the main landsy thing in Red to be doing.
And so I kinda gave up I think you can still get a nice midrange deck in there it's just going to always be tension between a planeswalker who wants your creatures to block (or die) and a deck style that wants them to swing out and whatever.
Ultimately my favorite thing about Windgrace personally is his interaction with what I think of as the 'lands control' package:
Some of my favorite games with Gitrog were back when I was running Awakening and I'd put out two or three copies of Maze of Ith and dare people to swing into froggy with two mazes or whatever.
With Wilderness Reclamation available now might be a deck there?
I think that Windgrace not being counter-synergy with The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale has to be the main reason to play him as a lands commander.
For a while I thought Windgrace made the most sense as a superfriends deck but the issue is most of the walkers in his colors really don't benefit that too much; they tend to just be much worse versions of the Landfall stuff that fortunately survives sweepers, and really want you to play a bunch of creatures.
Ultimately I think the tension of Windgrace wanting an empty board and Lands stuff wanting creatures that take advantage of the land drops and Jund colors generally not being very good at stuff other than creatures lead me to the conclusion that there isn't really a deck there without Jokulhaups - at least not for me.
The two styles that kind of appeal to me with WIndgrace (Spellslinger and Enchantress) both really want you to be doing MLD. The two-card combo of Splendid Reclamation + Jokulhaups is the main landsy thing in Red to be doing.
And so I kinda gave up
I think you can still get a nice midrange deck in there it's just going to always be tension between a planeswalker who wants your creatures to block (or die) and a deck style that wants them to swing out and whatever.Ultimately my favorite thing about Windgrace personally is his interaction with what I think of as the 'lands control' package:
So I think if I were to ever build the deck it'd be to use that stuff. Try to control the game through lands. Unfortunately I sold my Tabernacle to buy my Timetwister so probably never happening there for me lol
Some of my favorite games with Gitrog were back when I was running Awakening and I'd put out two or three copies of Maze of Ith and dare people to swing into froggy with two mazes or whatever.
With Wilderness Reclamation available now might be a deck there?
I think that Windgrace not being counter-synergy with The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale has to be the main reason to play him as a lands commander.
Last edited by pokken 3 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
To start off with, I think you meant Glacial Chasm above and not Glacial Fortress 
Yeah, that is one of the bigger issues with Windgrace is that he just works too well with Jokulhaups and Obliterate and friends. Obviously something I am trying to avoid, but it is possible that the objectively "best deck" might be with those.
I do like the idea of trying to do more with controlling games with lands, and it would finally give me a reason to use my Tabernacle since it is just sitting in my box right now. I think if I were to go further into that, perhaps Dark Depths makes sense with Stage that you mentioned. That package would be pretty easy to add if I just cut my Strip Mine effects. The problem is that I can't have both as I don't want to go up in the number of lands that produce only colorless. Or don't produce mana at all. There also might be an argument for cutting the land destruction package as it is anyway since I am not looping anything.
I could just slot in Tabernacle as well and not go for the full package you have above, but that gets me away from something I am trying right now. I just made the following changes (will put them in a deck tag later if I decide to make these permanent):
CUTS
ADDS
I was also going to try Turntimber Ranger but I just didn't have the room for it. I realize a few of these are questionable but for the most part they seem decent. Basically, it goes harder in the "fill my graveyard with lands; get them back" line and also includes Worm Harvest as a way to get a bunch of chump blockers as needed. Or sac fodder for Tevesh Szat. Korvold is included to play into the sacrificing lands piece that these new cards allow for and Safekeeper can help with that too while also giving stuff Shroud.
I did add a bit more removal (though I did cut Murderous Rider). I included Extinction Event just to deal with Indestructible stuff, but I don't know how much it will be needed or if it might hurt me more.
Ashaya probably still isn't very good here but I figured I would give her a shot. I also cut Lithoforming for Scapeshift as I think it ends up being better and less potential for a blowout. With Korvold, I can draw those cards anyway. Reshape the Earth is just being cut (really, just noting that it was never added and Omnath was never cut) because this is more about trying to find where I want the deck to be eventually and I am pretty sure that card doesn't have a place in this iteration of the deck.
Nissa is finally being added here as she should have been earlier.
I did goldfish a game and it worked out reasonably well but that hardly says much. I might try to play this more today and see what happens but this is sort of the direction I am thinking of taking the deck and I am going to see where things end up with it. The main issue I see with doing more of this is that is does open me up to getting blown out by grave hate pretty hard so I will need to watch that.
Yeah, that is one of the bigger issues with Windgrace is that he just works too well with Jokulhaups and Obliterate and friends. Obviously something I am trying to avoid, but it is possible that the objectively "best deck" might be with those.
I do like the idea of trying to do more with controlling games with lands, and it would finally give me a reason to use my Tabernacle since it is just sitting in my box right now. I think if I were to go further into that, perhaps Dark Depths makes sense with Stage that you mentioned. That package would be pretty easy to add if I just cut my Strip Mine effects. The problem is that I can't have both as I don't want to go up in the number of lands that produce only colorless. Or don't produce mana at all. There also might be an argument for cutting the land destruction package as it is anyway since I am not looping anything.
I could just slot in Tabernacle as well and not go for the full package you have above, but that gets me away from something I am trying right now. I just made the following changes (will put them in a deck tag later if I decide to make these permanent):
CUTS
- Tectonic Edge
- Murderous Rider
- Multani, Yavimaya's Avatar
- Acidic Slime
- Phyrexian Delver
- Mina and Denn, Wildborn
- Erebos, God of the Dead
- Lifeblood Hydra
- Yavimaya Dryad
- Ramunap Excavator
- Garruk, Cursed Huntsman
- Liliana, Dreadhorde General
- Nahiri's Lithoforming
- Moraug, Fury of Akoum
- Reshape the Earth
- Thrashing Brontodon
Now, Omnath is technically already there online but here it would be an intended include. Also, there are two notable exclusions that I had thought about: Field of the Dead and Elvish Reclaimer. Both are excluded here due to the cost online. Field is $20 and Reclaimer is $12. I don't like spending $20 on a single card online and I don't want to buy Reclaimer without knowing it will work. I know I can sell it back but still not something I want to do until I am sure I want it.
I was also going to try Turntimber Ranger but I just didn't have the room for it. I realize a few of these are questionable but for the most part they seem decent. Basically, it goes harder in the "fill my graveyard with lands; get them back" line and also includes Worm Harvest as a way to get a bunch of chump blockers as needed. Or sac fodder for Tevesh Szat. Korvold is included to play into the sacrificing lands piece that these new cards allow for and Safekeeper can help with that too while also giving stuff Shroud.
I did add a bit more removal (though I did cut Murderous Rider). I included Extinction Event just to deal with Indestructible stuff, but I don't know how much it will be needed or if it might hurt me more.
Ashaya probably still isn't very good here but I figured I would give her a shot. I also cut Lithoforming for Scapeshift as I think it ends up being better and less potential for a blowout. With Korvold, I can draw those cards anyway. Reshape the Earth is just being cut (really, just noting that it was never added and Omnath was never cut) because this is more about trying to find where I want the deck to be eventually and I am pretty sure that card doesn't have a place in this iteration of the deck.
Nissa is finally being added here as she should have been earlier.
I did goldfish a game and it worked out reasonably well but that hardly says much. I might try to play this more today and see what happens but this is sort of the direction I am thinking of taking the deck and I am going to see where things end up with it. The main issue I see with doing more of this is that is does open me up to getting blown out by grave hate pretty hard so I will need to watch that.
Yeah I definitely meant chasm brain fart.
brain fart.I played a couple games with the new deck and I am not going to go into a lot of detail. Both actually had a lot of good things setup to do what I wanted and the second game had Worm Harvest in hand with a few lands in the yard to see what that would have done.
However, in both games I played against the same player. In the first they played Jodah, Archmage Eternal and won on turn 4 or 5 with a Time Stretch into a Gishath, Sun's Avatar. It wasn't an insurmountable board state but the other two players dropped and I had no desire to try to claw my way back from that.
I joined a queue with them again thinking they got a lucky hand and those things happen. They changed to Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy. Already not a good start. And then they went land → Sol Ring → Grim Monolith so clearly they were only interested in winning as fast as possible. And they had the audacity to ask we didn't scoop early. Understandable considering the previous game but they ended up with a turn 3 Kozilek into infinite mana on turn 4 in this game. They tried to transmute for Walking Ballista using Muddle the Mixture without realizing how their cards worked. It didn't change anything since they still had Infinite mana and were able to just use Finale of Devastation to get Ulamog and pump up Kozilek.
They ended up with the board state attached. On turn 4. I mean, I don't expect to win every game and I realize this isn't a super fast deck, but man, I still want to play....
I am going to try a couple other games and see if I get a chance to have the deck try to perform anyway.
However, in both games I played against the same player. In the first they played Jodah, Archmage Eternal and won on turn 4 or 5 with a Time Stretch into a Gishath, Sun's Avatar. It wasn't an insurmountable board state but the other two players dropped and I had no desire to try to claw my way back from that.
I joined a queue with them again thinking they got a lucky hand and those things happen. They changed to Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy. Already not a good start. And then they went land → Sol Ring → Grim Monolith so clearly they were only interested in winning as fast as possible. And they had the audacity to ask we didn't scoop early. Understandable considering the previous game but they ended up with a turn 3 Kozilek into infinite mana on turn 4 in this game. They tried to transmute for Walking Ballista using Muddle the Mixture without realizing how their cards worked. It didn't change anything since they still had Infinite mana and were able to just use Finale of Devastation to get Ulamog and pump up Kozilek.
They ended up with the board state attached. On turn 4. I mean, I don't expect to win every game and I realize this isn't a super fast deck, but man, I still want to play....
I am going to try a couple other games and see if I get a chance to have the deck try to perform anyway.
- Attachments
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I got another game in and this one actually finished (more or less). I played against Wort, the Raidmother, Vorel of the Hull Clade, and Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder.
I started off with 3 lands, Damnation, Life from the Loam, Wood Elves and Heroic Intervention. I was able to get Windgrace down turn 4 which started some good draws. I also had a couple cycling lands that worked out exceptionally well with Life from the Loam to keep on digging.
The turn after Windgrace, Yidris cast Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and exiled everything, going down to 2 counters. I topdecked Nissa of Shadowed Boughs, animated a land, and killed Ugin (this was probably my favorite play of the game).
Next turn I played a land and ticked up Nissa and then cheated in Spike Weaver to try to set up some future plays. Since it entered with 5 counters, it gave me a pretty big buffer. Next turn I cast Lotus Cobra into Life from the Loam to get back my cycling lands and just kept up mana for Spike Weaver.
During this time, I also just kept trying to stall long enough to cast Damnation. But, Wort figured they couldn't wait anymore so they cast Blasphemous Act. I only lost my Cobra and Spike Weaver so no real harm to me and it slowed down Vorel and Yidris.
For some reason, Wort and Vorel had some sort of grudge because even as Yidris, and myself after a while, we getting out of control, they still kept going after each other. I don't really know the thought process but Vorel did end up taking out Wort.
I cast Korvold, Fae-Cursed King and he did quite a bit this game. I drew a lot of cards, but never got a real chance to attack since I he was actually destroyed pretty quickly. But I still got 3-4 cards off him in 2 turns.
At some point, I did get a Scute Swarm on the field and had 4 copies. I had World Shaper on the field as well as 9 or 10 lands in the yard. I was going to cast Roiling Regrowth to get another land in the yard and sacrifice World Shaper, However, Yidris cast Cyclonic Rift so I just let it go to try to set it up later. There probably was a good reason to just fire off World Shaper there so I could recast everything but I wanted to stay under the radar so to speak.
After Rift, I recast Scute Swarm and played a land. I recast World Shaper and then discarded to hand size. I ended up losing the Scute Swarm tokens before I could do much with them as Yidris used Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh to steal my Toxic Deluge and cast it for X=1. Now that my main reason for wanting World Shaper around was gone, I sacrificed it in response to being attacked to I could get back the Glacial Chasm in my yard.
I kept Chasm around for the next turn and tried to figure out what I wanted to do. I really wanted Bane of Progress to slow down Yidris so I dug for that with Life from the Loam and Windgrace. I ended up drawing into Ob Nixilis, the Fallen so I just changed my tactic. I cast Nissa again and got back The Gitrog Monster so I could play another land. I actually could have won here but I thought I was out of Forests since I didn't see any when cracking Bloodstained Mire (obviously; I realized I was being a dummy later).
But, this still worked out. Yidris tried to blow up my Chasm with Terastodon so I just cast Heroic Intervention to save it (and Nissa and another land). They swing at Nissa anyway which was fine. My plan was to get back World Shaper with Volrath's Stronghold and then sac everything to Scapeshift and get it all back with World Shaper to trigger Ob Nixilis a bunch of times. But, Yidris scooped in response to something happening (I forgot what it was) so I just attacked Vorel with my 15/15 Ob and Gitrog. They didn't bother blocking.
I never did end up casting Damnation either and I had Putrefy I never needed to cast. I could have to save Nissa but I didn't figure I needed to. I did find I missed activating Nissa twice because of all the triggers I kept thinking I already activated her. Just a dumb mistake but one I need to watch for.
Ob and Scapeshift almost won me the game. It would have ifYidris hadn't scooped (and could have a turn earlier if I hadn't messed up my mana tapping and left 4 mana open). Granted, Vorel had mana open so maybe they would have just countered it anyway.
Roiling Regrowth was decent, I liked Korvold a lot, Nissa was really good, Scute Swarm was so close to closing out the game (I think with my math, I would have had 120 copies the turn Rift was cast), Springbloom Druid made an appearance but I had to just discard it. It seemed like it could have done good work there though.
Lotus Cobra didn't do much since it died pretty quick and, as mentioned, Loam with cycling lands was amazing in the early game to really fill my hand. The game still took a while to play, but part of that was because of everything Yidris was doing so I was really being cautious and trying to get them as much as I could. I never did (man, I really wanted Bane of Progress) but it still worked out. I did get to Pernicious Deed later in the game but by then it didn't really matter.
I started off with 3 lands, Damnation, Life from the Loam, Wood Elves and Heroic Intervention. I was able to get Windgrace down turn 4 which started some good draws. I also had a couple cycling lands that worked out exceptionally well with Life from the Loam to keep on digging.
The turn after Windgrace, Yidris cast Ugin, the Spirit Dragon and exiled everything, going down to 2 counters. I topdecked Nissa of Shadowed Boughs, animated a land, and killed Ugin (this was probably my favorite play of the game).
Next turn I played a land and ticked up Nissa and then cheated in Spike Weaver to try to set up some future plays. Since it entered with 5 counters, it gave me a pretty big buffer. Next turn I cast Lotus Cobra into Life from the Loam to get back my cycling lands and just kept up mana for Spike Weaver.
During this time, I also just kept trying to stall long enough to cast Damnation. But, Wort figured they couldn't wait anymore so they cast Blasphemous Act. I only lost my Cobra and Spike Weaver so no real harm to me and it slowed down Vorel and Yidris.
For some reason, Wort and Vorel had some sort of grudge because even as Yidris, and myself after a while, we getting out of control, they still kept going after each other. I don't really know the thought process but Vorel did end up taking out Wort.
I cast Korvold, Fae-Cursed King and he did quite a bit this game. I drew a lot of cards, but never got a real chance to attack since I he was actually destroyed pretty quickly. But I still got 3-4 cards off him in 2 turns.
At some point, I did get a Scute Swarm on the field and had 4 copies. I had World Shaper on the field as well as 9 or 10 lands in the yard. I was going to cast Roiling Regrowth to get another land in the yard and sacrifice World Shaper, However, Yidris cast Cyclonic Rift so I just let it go to try to set it up later. There probably was a good reason to just fire off World Shaper there so I could recast everything but I wanted to stay under the radar so to speak.
After Rift, I recast Scute Swarm and played a land. I recast World Shaper and then discarded to hand size. I ended up losing the Scute Swarm tokens before I could do much with them as Yidris used Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh to steal my Toxic Deluge and cast it for X=1. Now that my main reason for wanting World Shaper around was gone, I sacrificed it in response to being attacked to I could get back the Glacial Chasm in my yard.
I kept Chasm around for the next turn and tried to figure out what I wanted to do. I really wanted Bane of Progress to slow down Yidris so I dug for that with Life from the Loam and Windgrace. I ended up drawing into Ob Nixilis, the Fallen so I just changed my tactic. I cast Nissa again and got back The Gitrog Monster so I could play another land. I actually could have won here but I thought I was out of Forests since I didn't see any when cracking Bloodstained Mire (obviously; I realized I was being a dummy later).
But, this still worked out. Yidris tried to blow up my Chasm with Terastodon so I just cast Heroic Intervention to save it (and Nissa and another land). They swing at Nissa anyway which was fine. My plan was to get back World Shaper with Volrath's Stronghold and then sac everything to Scapeshift and get it all back with World Shaper to trigger Ob Nixilis a bunch of times. But, Yidris scooped in response to something happening (I forgot what it was) so I just attacked Vorel with my 15/15 Ob and Gitrog. They didn't bother blocking.
I never did end up casting Damnation either and I had Putrefy I never needed to cast. I could have to save Nissa but I didn't figure I needed to. I did find I missed activating Nissa twice because of all the triggers I kept thinking I already activated her. Just a dumb mistake but one I need to watch for.
Ob and Scapeshift almost won me the game. It would have ifYidris hadn't scooped (and could have a turn earlier if I hadn't messed up my mana tapping and left 4 mana open). Granted, Vorel had mana open so maybe they would have just countered it anyway.
Roiling Regrowth was decent, I liked Korvold a lot, Nissa was really good, Scute Swarm was so close to closing out the game (I think with my math, I would have had 120 copies the turn Rift was cast), Springbloom Druid made an appearance but I had to just discard it. It seemed like it could have done good work there though.
Lotus Cobra didn't do much since it died pretty quick and, as mentioned, Loam with cycling lands was amazing in the early game to really fill my hand. The game still took a while to play, but part of that was because of everything Yidris was doing so I was really being cautious and trying to get them as much as I could. I never did (man, I really wanted Bane of Progress) but it still worked out. I did get to Pernicious Deed later in the game but by then it didn't really matter.
