Emiel the Blessed, ETB tool box

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Dunadain
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Post by Dunadain » 2 years ago

Just getting the deck list out there, I created the list a couple weeks ago and I've been loving it, might sit down and make some sort of primer out of it sometime.

When I originally created it, I didn't realize how often games would end up with me being archenemy, but I'm okay with being the bad guy sometimes. Besides, my favorite deck is Dirk Gently's Pheldagrif, which is like, the opposite of archenemy so whatever. I should mention that the deck doesn't usually start as the main threat, but the longer the game goes, the more apparent it becomes that I'm in the driver's seat and need to be stopped. The whole flickering and flash themes means that it can frequently respond to opponents answers, I think the high level of interactivity is what makes me love it so much.
Deck Philosophy
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Emiel the Blessed has two ability's: the ability to flicker another creature you control for 3 mana, and he ability to pay mana to put a +1/+1 counter on a creature when it enters the battlefield, or two +1/+1 counters if the creature is a unicorn. The way I see it:
  1. Tribal decks are lame and unicorns are a poorly supported tribe, it does seem like Blessed Sanctuary was tailor made for this commander, but it doesn't actually make the cut, more on why that is later. So unicorn tribal is a no-go.
  2. There's many commanders that seem more suited for a +1/+1 counter deck, most of them are in Selesnya to, so their doesn't seem to be much point in building around counters, if the ocassional synergy pops up, that's great, but for the most part, it seems best to ignore the second ability all together (though you could argue it's critical for the deck since it allows me to run green, which is over half the deck's cards, lol.
  3. So it seems the first ability is clearly the one we are building around.
So after deciding that Emiel the Blessed was going to be a flicker deck I began wondering how to best use the flicker ability, obviously your going to want to be abusing ETBs or LTBs, Emiel the Blessed's flickers can save your stuff from targeted removal and act as a sort of Mystifying Maze, but otherwise, flickering a Craw Wurm doesn't actually do anything.

But think about it: Emiel's ability always costs to activate, but not all ETB effects were created equal, I'd much rather have Hornet Queen's etb effect than Ferocious Pup.

Obviously, we have to get the creature on the battlefield in the first place, but once we do, flickering Hornet Queen doesn't cost anymore than flickering Ferocious Pup.

Now we have to still have a mana curve but I think the fact that we want to flicker big stuff as fast as possible should offer a hint as to what kinds of ETBs should be at what mana value (mana value still sounds strange lol). Namely: Cheap creatures should provide interaction and value, while expensive creatures should develop our board state.
Examples of cards commonly found in other Emiel decks that I've discarded:
  • Ferocious Pup, for it's MV is actually a pretty strong token generating ETB, but early in the game we'd much rather get a Wall of Blossoms or a Farhaven Elf so we can work towards playing a better, but harder to cast token generator (eg. Hornet Queen).
  • Regal Force has the opposite problem: If I have that much mana, I'd much rather start going for the win, sure Regal Force will draw more cards than Wall of Blossoms, but the wall can start generating value very early and late game can still draw multiple cards per turn, even if not at the same great rate as Regal Force
  • Terastodon, again, why blow everything up when you could just go and win the game. Terastodon costs the same as Craterhoof Behemoth for pete's sake.
Okay, now we have a game plan: set up a value engine early game and utilize cheap answers like Knight of Autumn and Skyclave Apparition to slowly pull ahead of our opponents, then flicker expensive, board developing creatures like Hornet Queen and Craterhoof Behemoth to close out the game.

There are, however, a couple more concepts that guided my thought process:
  1. There are some cards that are not flicker effects, nor are they ETB effects, but they make these flickering engines better, I like to call these catalysts, examples of catalysts are Blessed Sanctuary, Panharmonicon, and Soul Warden. For the most part, I think these cards ought to be avoided. If you don't have an engine set up, these cards are useless, If you do have an engine set up, then you find yourself, in a predicament: you can cast the catalyst so your next flicker effect is better, or you could use that mana to just flicker the engine again. This means the first time you use the engine with a catalyst, you are really only breaking even. For example, if I cast Panharmonicon then activate Emiel the Blessed to flicker Wall of Blossoms, then I'll have spent and lost a card in order to draw 2 cards, if I had just flickered Wall of Blossoms twice, I would have spent in order to draw 2 cards, without having to commit another card in my hand to the field. Yes, as time goes on, Panharmonicon can pay for itself and then accrue massive advantage, but if anyone interacts with your stuff then you'll, essentially, be getting 2 for 1ed. This doesn't mean that you should strictly avoid all catalysts, but they inherently come with a lot of downsides, so I'd only run particularly strong catalysts. For example: Seedborn Muse is still worth running, while Panharmonicon can double the value you're getting from your engine, card Seedborn Muse can quadruple it in a 4 player game AND even f you had to tap out for it, it only needs to survive until the next player's upkeep in order to get some use out of it AND it's a creature that can be tutored for AND it's a creature that can be protected by Emiel the Blessed. I'm sure you guys all already know that Seedborn Muse is good, but hopefully this paragraph explains why it's so much better than the other options out there and why it's currently the only one I'd say is worth running.
  2. This deck can be pretty oppressive (While I'd typically rather try to win, sometimes I find myself flickering Palace Jailer multiple times a turn for multiple turns until I find some sort of wincon, I'll also shamelessly flicker Selfless Squire each player's turn for multiple rounds until I've drawn enough lands to be able to do other things while keeping the Selfless Squire lock down). So this may seem I bit hypocritical, but I've still chosen to avoid infinite combos, a couple iterations have run some, simply because 2 ETB flicker effects make comboing very easy, almost accidentally easy, but I'd rather not.
  3. This deck is a late game deck, Their are very few decks out there that can assemble more powerful value engines or more powerful token generators, so the longer we can stay in the game, the better off we are. this means we need to be able to interact with a wide variety of threats and unfortunately, we don't have access to blue, this means we need to run flexible answers, and we need to have tutors to find these options. We also aren't running black so most of our interaction ought to be in the form of creatures so we can actually tutor for them. I suspect the current list runs too many tutors, but whatever the correct number of tutors is, it's going to be a pretty high number. So those of you that have a stroke every time you see a tutor in your precious EDH format ought to move on: I'm pretty sure seeing this list would kill you.
The list:
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Last edited by Dunadain 6 months ago, edited 9 times in total.
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Post by Dunadain » 2 years ago

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I've been thinking for a while: "I really ought to find a board wipe on a creature so I can turn all these tutors into a Board wipe if I need to", I played a game today and desperately needed it, so I finally got off my lazy butt and added it. The only other legitimate option I could find was Wakening Sun's Avatar, while Cataclysmic Gearhulk does leave everybody's best things on the battlefield, it gets rid of it most of the stuff and costs less to cast and isn't randomly a dead draw if I'm ever up against Dinosaur tribal, lol.

I thought Woodland Bellower would be an awesome ETB to flicker, but I've realized there isn't actually too many things for it to grab, and the only piece of interaction it can find is Knight of Autumn, Brutalizer Exarch only tutors to top of deck, but it can grab anything, and it offers removal for any noncreature, the 6 MV is almost an asset as it allows it to be Fierce Empath's new best friend now that I'm cutting his old one. (Bonus: I've never really liked Acidic Slime but I've kept it as tutorable land removal, now that I'm running Brutalizer Exarch I can cut it, probably will be dropped the first time I see some other toy I want to throw in the list.
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Post by Dunadain » 2 years ago

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This deck hasn't got any attention, but I love it and have still been playing it quite frequently.

I decided to add in Guardian of Faith, originally, I decided against him because Glorious Protector fills the same role of board wipe protection but also trigger ETBs when the come back. Guardian of Faith has it's own benefits, he's less clunky against targeted removal (you need to find a way to get rid of Glorious Protector to get the card it was protecting back, Guardian of Faith automatically gives it back to you next turn.) Guardian of Faith also can protect tokens, which this deck can make a lot of tokens, so that's nice, Finally, Guardian of Faith has a mana value of 3 instead of 4, which is always nice.

In retrospect, Guardian of Faith is kind of a slam dunk, don't really know how I convinced myself not to add it when it first came out.

I'm taking out Acidic Slime, 5 MV is a lot for a Reclamation Sage and for only one more mana, Brutalizer Exarch can take care of lands and do a bunch of other things.

What do people think about Bane of Progress? there's been a lot of games where I've had a tutor in hand and dearly wished I could grab it, but the deck is a little top heavy as is.
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Post by Artaud » 2 years ago

How about Great Oak Guardian/Village Bell-Ringer and more mana-elves? With enough of them you will generate infinite mana with the help of Emiel (and infinite P/T with GOG) which can be a way to win. Mana-elves are good in any Gx creature-matter deck anyway.

You should also get rid of some expensive / redundant stuff like eg. Hornet Queen. With green search spells you need to include only one creature of a kind for your toolbox.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Dunadain wrote:
2 years ago
For example, if I cast Panharmonicon then activate Emiel the Blessed to flicker Wall of Blossoms, then I'll have spent and lost a card in order to draw 2 cards, if I had just flickered Wall of Blossoms twice, I would have spent in order to draw 2 cards, without having to commit another card in my hand to the field. Yes, as time goes on, Panharmonicon can pay for itself and then accrue massive advantage, but if anyone interacts with your stuff then you'll, essentially, be getting 2 for 1ed.
Really succinct explanation of why I don't like those doubling effects much in blink shells :) Not always wrong, but often overkill and often make hands clunky.

Nice deck :)

I would consider running Awakening as a second Muse. It's "symmetrical" but also often not.

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Post by Dunadain » 2 years ago

Artaud wrote:
2 years ago
How about Great Oak Guardian/Village Bell-Ringer and more mana-elves? With enough of them you will generate infinite mana with the help of Emiel (and infinite P/T with GOG) which can be a way to win. Mana-elves are good in any Gx creature-matter deck anyway.

You should also get rid of some expensive / redundant stuff like eg. Hornet Queen. With green search spells you need to include only one creature of a kind for your toolbox.
I decided to avoid infinite combos, It's a rather underwhelming combo anyways, you need Emiel, Village Bell-Ringer, and 4 mana elves, that's a 6 card combo.

as for removing hornet queen, you might be right, Avenger of Zendikar and Hornet Queen are often interchangeable, but not always, Hornet Queen is great at gumming up the board when my opponents have respectable armies as well, and Avenger of Zendikar can win the game all on it's own.

Edit: Also the big one: Recruiter of the Guard can fetch Hornet Queen but not Avenger of Zendikar
pokken wrote:
2 years ago
Dunadain wrote:
2 years ago
For example, if I cast Panharmonicon then activate Emiel the Blessed to flicker Wall of Blossoms, then I'll have spent and lost a card in order to draw 2 cards, if I had just flickered Wall of Blossoms twice, I would have spent in order to draw 2 cards, without having to commit another card in my hand to the field. Yes, as time goes on, Panharmonicon can pay for itself and then accrue massive advantage, but if anyone interacts with your stuff then you'll, essentially, be getting 2 for 1ed.
Really succinct explanation of why I don't like those doubling effects much in blink shells :) Not always wrong, but often overkill and often make hands clunky.

Nice deck :)

I would consider running Awakening as a second Muse. It's "symmetrical" but also often not.
I'm glad someone agrees with me, everyone tells me I need to add Panharmonicon lol.

Never even seen Awakening definitely requires testing, it's pretty much always worse then Seedborn Muse, but Seedborn Muse is fantastic, so Awakening might still be pretty good.
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Post by Dunadain » 2 years ago

Played a couple of games over the weekend and had some musings:
Planeswalker Rabbit hole that went nowhere
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The two planeswalkers (Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Nissa, Sage Animist and Vivien, Champion of the Wilds) have really been pulling their weight.

To be honest, I rarely look at planeswalkers too closely when building decks, I often get tunnel vision on a particular theme and build my entire deck strictly off that, for example, in this build, I was really focused on ETB creatures, so I didn't put to much thoughts into generic, value generating planeswalkers.

Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Nissa, Sage Animist and Vivien, Champion of the Wilds mostly got in by accident.

I threw Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Nissa, Sage Animist into the deck because I noticed there were a lot of MV 3 creatures with ETBs that put a land from your library into you hand. My instinct was that this effect was too weak, but I figured it might be a good idea to throw one in just to see how it plays out in practice, I chose Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Nissa, Sage Animist because she's clearly better than all the other ones (technically Nissa's transformation is not a may ability and once she transforms you can no longer flicker her to grab more lands, but at that point your at 7 lands and her planes walkers side can dig for lands as well, so while not technically strictly better, she's pretty clearly better).

Having actually played with her now, she's amazing, early game she makes sure your hitting your land drops, and late game she's a value generating machine (her +1 is the only particularly useful ability, but it's good enough to justify her.)

Vivien, Champion of the Wilds was added to the deck along with Yeva, Nature's Herald, Vedalken Orrery, and Winding Canyons, I barely even looked at her abilities and just wanted more ways to give creatures flash, as a lot of ETBs become even better at instant speed, and since Emiel's ability is instant speed, it's nice to not have to tap out.

I way overestimated how good flash was though, Vedalken Orrery and Yeva, Nature's Herald don't actually do anything on their own besides look pretty, and they are a pretty heft mana investment, Yeva, Nature's Herald is particularly bad as half of our creatures are white, those were some of the first cards to get cut after a few games of testing. Winding Canyons, of course, is probably here to stay, since the cost to run it is nearly zero.

Vivien, however, at the worst, at least replaces itself, and actually allows you to dig three cards deep. and that's if nobody kills it, frequently I'm able to exile 3-4 cards off of Vivien which is just nuts (we have a lot of creatures, so I've only whiffed once). and it does all that while also giving my stuff flash. Simply fantastic (it's yet to happen, but magical christmas land is blinking Vivien, Champion of the Wilds every turn with Flickerwisp to -2 every turn.)

This got me thinking: why are these planeswalkers putting in so much work when, in most decks, they die far more easily. And I realized this deck is actually very well equipped to defend planeswalkers Emiel the Blessed is a chunky 4/4 which alone makes it difficult to nickle and dime planeswalkers to death, I have a ton of creatures, I have a decent amount of instant speed removal, and the big one: blocking an attacker than flickering the blocker before combat damage is dealt is a lovely little Kor Haven impersonation (you can also flicker you opponents stuff with Flickerwisp which often performs a similar role).

So I thought I should see what other planeswalkers might fit the deck here's the list I put together of planeswalkers worth consideration:

Vivien Reid OG Vivien is also decent, digs 4 cards deep (and can also grab lands unlike Vivien, Champion of the Wilds), and has decent removal options.

Vivien, Monsters' Advocate Another Vivien, lol. Our very own Future Sight, but it also protects itself and can help us tutor for utility creatures if we are willing to jump through a couple of hoops.

Ajani Unyielding Digs three cards deep, and can grab more than one card, sometimes it's going to be a +1: draw three cards, and that's going to feel amazing. can also Swords to Plowshares something.

Garruk, Caller of Beasts Dig FIVE and grab all creatures, even if it dies immedietly, that ought to pretty effectively refill your hand. the -3 might also be nice if you tap out for Garruk and want to have a blocker, occasionally you might get an early Craterhoof Behemoth out of it, but at 6 mana, you were almost there anyways.

I organized them from most interesting to least interesting (though the first two are pretty close and the last two are pretty close) but I'm still not sold on any, they are all 2 or 3 more mana than the two I already have and the deck's pretty top heavy as it is. Additionally, I think the fewer planeswalkers you have the more powerful each one will be. As I said earlier, one of the reasons this deck is able to use planeswalkers so well is becaue the high creature count helps defend them. Adding more planeswalkers will lower our creature count, making me less able to defend them.

So after all that thinking and researching, I think I'm going to leave it be for now, though if anyone wants to throw their weight behind a particular planeswalker, I'm not opposed to at the very least giving it a chance.

Kind of funny to think I more or less accidentally slotted in the two clearly strongest planeswalkers and none of the others, lol.

That rabbit hole kind of felt like a waste of time, but at least now I'll make sure to keep an eye out for any good new planeswalkers.
Touching up the Boardwipes
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When I added Devastating Mastery, it was the hip new thing on the block, and while it's really good Hour of Revelation is just better and I think 3 board wipes, one of which is a tutor-able creature, is an acceptable number. So I made that swap.

Something to note is this deck really likes wipes that also hit artifacts and enchantments, since I don't have a ton of either, instead relying on land ramp, wiping out artifacts can often set the whole table miles behind me (but I play in a very greedy metagame, your mileage may vary). It's another reason I keep weighing Bane of Progress.
Land Tutoring
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While I don't have that many utility lands, I thought it might be nice to have a way to tutor for them, turns out the cheapest ETB land tutor effect is Golos, Tireless Pilgrim which is both banned and not in our colors (as a side note though, I feel this really highlights how stupid Golos was, his ETB was the best of it's kind and he had a second ability that was at least as good if not better. than the etb) the second, and only other, land tutor ETB is Ulvenwald Hydra which is simply too high of a MV for a land and a big dumb beater.

So I have three options:
#1 Run a couple non-creature land tutors, I'd probably need to run more than one since I won't be able to tutor chain for a land them. Crop Rotation is my favorite card in magic, so I'm not that opposed, but I'm not sure it belongs in this deck.

#2 replace Farhaven Elf with Elvish Rejuvenator and if I really need that Arcane Lighthouse I can start digging and start praying. 9/10 Elvish Rejuvenator is going to be better than Farhaven Elf, but that 1/10 times it's going to whiff and it's probably going to feel awful. (almost exactly, with 38 hittable lands in a 100 card deck, the odds of revealing five non-lands is roughly .09924, though those odds will fluctuate slightly as I draw cards). I suppose you could also make the argument that Elvish Rejuvenator plays around Opposition Agent, but that seems too narrowly specific to justify it.

#3 do nothing. Maybe the best option, like I said, I don't really run that many important utility lands, and while I've thought of adding some more, I'm not sure I need them.

So another big Scryfall search that ended with me doing nothing, not very exciting, but I suppose it means my deck is getting very finely tuned, so changes should become fewer and further between.
Stabilizing against agressive decks
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When originally creating this deck I kind of danced around between Thragtusk and Resolute Archangel as my answer to aggro/groupslug. I eventually went with Thragtusk because it's a full 2 mana cheaper and it's not a dead draw if I'm sitting at a comfortable life total (while not as exciting as flickering Hornet Queen or Avenger of Zendikar, Thragtusk can spit out tokens at a decent rate), additionally, against aggro, all those tokens might provide helpful blockers.

Sometimes though, Thragtusk dies quick (he get's hated on quite a bit, I think it's PTSD from the moster this thing was in Standard) and all he's gained is 5 life, which is but a mere hiccup for a determined Purphoros, God of the Forge or other aggro deck, and if their aren't any aggro decks, than the 5 life and 3/3 token have even less of an effect on the game.

At least Resolute Archangel only needs one ETB, than it has done it's work

Honestly, I feel their is a decent case to be made for leaving Thragtusk, swapping him for Resolute Archangel, or cutting the lifegain idea all together and finding some other way to make it work. If I get super desperate, than Knight of Autumn or Charming Prince might be enough to limp along for a few critical turns.
Whew, that was a lot of words and all that came of it was:
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Lol, please do share your thoughts, maybe I'm just too reluctant to try new things.
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Post by Junior » 1 year ago

Any updates to your deck? Are you still playing it? I'm looking to build Emiel so I was curious what your thoughts are after playing it for a while. Thanks.

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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

Junior wrote:
1 year ago
Any updates to your deck? Are you still playing it? I'm looking to build Emiel so I was curious what your thoughts are after playing it for a while. Thanks.
No significant updates, I've played it of and on, but have been too lazy to make any big changes to the list in awhile.

I still think the deck is a blast to play if that what you mean 🙂.
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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

I haven't been able to play this deck much because it hits too hard for most tables, however, today there were these 3 players that said they wanted to play optimized decks, "Power level 6-9" were there exact words

I mopped the floor with them.

To be fair, I don't think there idea of 6-9 is the same as my idea of 6-9. One player was playing Maralen of the Mornsong and kept insisting that he was "mono-black group hug" yeah, I didn't buy it, he assembled the Exquisite Blood + Sanguine Bond combo, but I was expecting something like that so I blew it up with Knight of Autumn. He scooped to that, saying it was his only win con, which struck me as poor sportsmanship, but whatever. the next guy was playing Lynde, Cheerful Tormentor and didn't do anything all game, he got a decent number of curses on me, but they were all low impact, I shrugged them off and mostly ignored him. The final player was playing Satsuki, the Living Lore, the saga part was easily the weakest part of his deck, but the enchantress package is really strong in any deck, so he was the only real threat. I had a Survival of the Fittest so I spent a couple turns assembling a Glorious Protector + Cataclysmic Gearhulk plan that sent both of my opponents into the stone age and surged me far ahead. Took a couple turns to win, and the enchantress guy actually did a decent job rebuilding, but Chord of Calling + Elvish Visionary was able to steam roll him.

The also had pretty poor threat assessment, not sure it would have helped much, but twice they cast a removal spell, and I got ready to cast Chord of Calling to grab something to save the creature I assumed they would kill, but instead they announced some other target, and after thinking about it for a few seconds, I just let that creature die.

I didn't even cast Emiel the Blessed until the very end of the game.

So yeah, it was kind of a slaughter fest but man was it fun, this deck is so cool. think I'll update it again, though there aren't really any new cards worth considering. Maybe Topiary Stomper or Serra Paragon (you can flicker something you bring back and it won't go to exile when it dies, so that's a neat synergy)?

To be honest, the biggest thing the deck needs is a land overhaul, it's not a terrible manabase for sure, but not a lot of thought was put into it either. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by duducrash » 1 year ago

People who want to play optimized mtg and scoop to a Knight of Autumn is so on brand for 2022 magic it's actually insane

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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

Alright let's see what updates can be made to the list. I'm not going to include an In + Out list this time as there's a lot of changes (plus some I made a while ago and never recorded)

I will talk a bit about some new additons:
Let's talk about Farhaven Elf and Co.
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There are a lot of etb effects like Topiary Stomper out there, so let's actually see which ones are worth running.

Campus Guide, Loam Larva and Ainok Guide: These are awful, top of the deck is so weak, don't even think about it.

Gatecreeper Vine, Sylvan Ranger: These are better, they lose a lot of value late game where flickering them multiple times per turn doesn't do much but they are a MV cheaper than the ones that put the land into play. Still not particularly impressed though, I'd rather just play Wall of Blossoms and co. at this MV and draw into my land drops naturally.

Loyal Warhound: I'm torn about this one, on the one hand it's tutor a land into play at 2MV, on the other hand, we are often going to be in the lead landwise, so it's inconsistent, idk, maybe I should give it a spin.

Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Nissa, Sage Animist: this one is a trick question, the front isn't all that exciting, but the fact that it transforms late game into a decent value engine makes me really like it.

Elvish Rejuvenator: cute, but i don't think the ability to hit nonbasics make up for the 10% chance to whiff.

Farhaven Elf, Topiary Stomper, Wood Elves, Yavimaya Dryad: Now were talking! Wood Elves is probably slightly better, as it grabs an untapped land, but not being able to grab plains is a downside. I think the new Topiary Stomper is kinda weak actually, it requires 2 green instead of one, and early game we might not be able to do block + flicker shenanigans with it, late game, the slightly bigger body isn't that big of a deal.

Springbloom Druid The cream of the crop! it fixes, it thins and it goes ABSOLUTELY NUTSO BUSTO with Avenger of Zendikar, seriously, it's not even funny how fast the plants grow whith this guy around.

Rootweaver Druid: interesting card, i guess technically, if all of your opponents take you up on the offer it can grab you 3 lands, but this deck isn't very good at politics and you'll look like a fool if everyone agrees not to take you up on your offer. I think I'll pass.

Solemn Simulacrum I know this is supposed to be a EDH staple, but this effect has a lot of stiff competition, and MV matters a LOT on your ramp spells, idk, if it was draw a card when it leaves the battlefield, it would be great, but only getting the card when it dies... I don't think it's worth the extra mana.

Ulvenwald Hydra: it's a trap. Remember, low MV creatures should provide value, high MV creaturesshould be trying to win us the game. I guess Primeval Titan would probably be strong enough to make an exception, but this is not Primeval Titan.

So if I had to list them best to worse:

Springbloom Druid
Wood Elves
Farhaven Elf
Topiary Stomper
Yavimaya Dryad

and it's probably not worth it to rate the rest as 5 is probably more than enough of these effects. I think I'll personally run the top 3 + Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Nissa, Sage Animist.
Spirited Companion: Let's go! Wall of Blossoms, Wall of Omens, and Elvish Visionary have all been really strong, so I welcome an additional member to their mix. I think I'll cut Foul Emissary for it, which I only bring p because I never mentioned it in this thread but it was actually pretty decent, I think Spirited Companion is better, but Foul Emissary is a defensible inclusion.
Lae'zel's Acrobatics
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Eerie Interlude has been really strong, you can make an engine with it + Elvish Visionary. But to be honest, I think it's easy to get to caught up in setting up repeatable flicker engines, just casting Eerie Interlude once at the ideal moment (usually in response to a board wipe) is enough to set you soaring ahead. It's made me want to look at all the mass blink effects.

Ghostway: strictly worse than Eerie Interlude, but not bad either. having to kill your token is unfortunate, but not that big of a deal and being cheap IS a big deal.

Semester's End: This got a lot of attention when it was spoiled but I'm not all that impressed, the extra counters you get don't make up for the additional . Certainly playable, just not as good as the 3 MV options I think.

Lae'zel's Acrobatics NOW were talking, sure ~50% of the time it's a Eerie Interlude that costs which we already established was playable. but the other ~50% it's ridiculous. Plus with Eternal Witness and company, we can feasibly cast this multiple times to increase our odds of getting the double ETB triggers.

I really don't know what the right number of these to play are, I was just running Eerie Interlude, but I think I'll run Eerie Interlude and Lae'zel's Acrobatics for awhile and see.
Eternal Witness and co.
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Eternal Witness might be the best card in the entire deck. it's frequently the first card I tutor for (because it can then pick up the tutor you used and you can then reuse that tutor for the rest of the game). it can loops Eerie Interlude and it can be used a lot more "fairly" and just get back your creatures that get killed/rebuy that Generous Gift to handle more problematic permanents.

It would make sense then to include the card's look-a-likes. Timeless Witness has been great, but I'm uncertain about Skullwinder. As I've said, this deck doesn't often play nice, so having to give your opponents a free Regrowth everytime you flicker it can be really bad, on the flip side, if someone has a rather innocuous graveyard, it's great!

I don't know, the effect is SO strong, maybe I should just run it and if everybody has a scary graveyard, just go find Endurance.

I have thought a little bit about Greenwarden of Murasa but again, those curve toppers should be wining you the game, not setting up more value engines.
Threats Undetected I either love this card or it's terrible. It's not going to work like an ordinary tutor, but when you're not in the lead, you should be able to convince someone to give you the interaction you need. and when you are, it's still a two for one. Idk... if the other creatures went to the gy like Gifts Ungiven I'd be all over it, but I should probably give it a chance. It's also important to note we have a lot of redundancy, you can just grab all four Wall of Blossoms and co. and it's like your opponent doesn't really have a choice.
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Post by Ruiner » 1 year ago

What do you think of Titan of Industry?
I've got an Emiel deck and I've recently thrown it in to try it out but just by chance I have yet to draw or otherwise put it in play yet. 7 mana is a lot, but in my experience I get a ton of mana in play with the cheap land ramp ETB cards.

Also, I see you don't run Teleportation Circle. Have you thought about trying that out? I've found the free blink every turn to be really useful in every game I draw it.

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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

Ruiner wrote:
1 year ago
What do you think of Titan of Industry?
I've got an Emiel deck and I've recently thrown it in to try it out but just by chance I have yet to draw or otherwise put it in play yet. 7 mana is a lot, but in my experience I get a ton of mana in play with the cheap land ramp ETB cards.

Also, I see you don't run Teleportation Circle. Have you thought about trying that out? I've found the free blink every turn to be really useful in every game I draw it.
Titan of Industry seems like a lot of mana to not win the game, but it's really flexible, so it might be worth running, when you run as many tutors as I do you only need a handful of each effect, and titan seems like a jack of all trades master of none, hard to imagine a situation where it would be the best tutor target. I've said it a lot but I'll say it again, you want your low mv cards to provide answers and card advantage, and you want your high mv cards to provide win conditions. There is however some flexibility to that rule, and titan seems like a decent creature to bend the rules for.

Teleportation Circle is a very popular card in blink decks. But I'm just not that sold on it. The timing restrictions means it's much less versatile than other options. Ideally you want to blink your creatures to do something (avoid combat damage/dodge removal/etc.) And get the additional etb effect as the cherry on top. It also fits into the same awkward scenario as Panharmonicon where your spending a lot of mana for no immediate effect when you could just hold up an emiel activation/flash creature instead.

I have thought about it a lot, maybe I'll try it one of these days.

All that said, in a less interactive version of Email it would probably be quite strong.

Edit: Also, share your list of you've got it! Would love to see some more discussion on my favorite blink commander.
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Post by Ruiner » 1 year ago

Dunadain wrote:
1 year ago
Teleportation Circle is a very popular card in blink decks. But I'm just not that sold on it. The timing restrictions means it's much less versatile than other options. Ideally you want to blink your creatures to do something (avoid combat damage/dodge removal/etc.) And get the additional etb effect as the cherry on top. It also fits into the same awkward scenario as Panharmonicon where your spending a lot of mana for no immediate effect when you could just hold up an emiel activation/flash creature instead.
Yeah I'm not a fan of Panharmonicon either for the reasons you said.

With Teleportation Circle though, I've seen it as a "Pay 1 more than Emiel's blink effect" initial investment for something I was already planning to blink on my own turn, and then it is just generating free blinks every round afterwards. It comes in handy but I can see it not being for everyone though.

Edit: Also, share your list of you've got it! Would love to see some more discussion on my favorite blink commander.
I don't have my list typed up at the moment but I'll try to get that done sometime soon. It's not quite as fine tuned as yours is at the moment but it is definitely a fun deck being able to machine gun blink removal and grind down the rest of the table.

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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

Alright, you've convinced me, I'll give Teleportation Circle a try.
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Post by Chromaticus » 1 year ago

I think you'd be really happy with Radiant Solar in this deck. You get a venture on every blink / cast. From your description, you mentioned going for the win at 6+ mana value, but radiant has been in the crazy territory for the creature based lists I've run her in, and your mass blink effects clearing a dungeon or two can illustrate the point.

Karmic Guide is also a great card to run with your Survival of the Fittest and Fauna Shaman package.

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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

Chromaticus wrote:
1 year ago
I think you'd be really happy with Radiant Solar in this deck. You get a venture on every blink / cast. From your description, you mentioned going for the win at 6+ mana value, but radiant has been in the crazy territory for the creature based lists I've run her in, and your mass blink effects clearing a dungeon or two can illustrate the point.

Karmic Guide is also a great card to run with your Survival of the Fittest and Fauna Shaman package.
Idk, I can give it a try, but Radiant Solar is a high MV spell that doesn't win the game, and is a catalyst. Two things I tend to avoid.

The thing is, blink engines are VERY strong, and unless someone else has done engine up, you can pretty trivially grind out the entire table with a blink engine, there's no need to make it more powerful with cards like Panharmonicon, Blessed Sanctuary, or Radiant Solar. On the flip side, if you don't have a blink engine, then the cards are very low impact.

Karmic Guide, on the flip side looks pretty good, I should probably find room for it.
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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

Warhammer looks like a whiff to me. But ther's a lot of close ones

Space Marine Devastator is probably the biggest maybe, but do we need a second Knight of Autumn?

Old One Eye is a pretty mediocre token generator

Sporocyst could almost be cool if blinking him did anything, as is it's a pass
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Post by Chromaticus » 1 year ago

Played my first game with this deck last night - it did very well! The blink pieces I had in play were Palace Jailer (man is that card obnoxious) Springbloom Druid Eternal Witness.

The Springbloom Druid came later in the game, so the ramp was a Birds of Paradise and one activation of Sword of Hearth and Home.

I think the most interesting thing about the play pattern of this de k is that you really don't want to / have to commit to the board almost at all. Even with access to a full grip, it was mostly better for me to hold up multiples of 3 mana. Additionally, you get a lot of free points for threat of activation and neutralizing attacks with blink mana.

I eventually played Eladamri's Call end of turn to find Craterhoof Behemoth with 5 other creatures out when life totals were fairly low, and blinked it to give everybody +12 / +12. The only issue was an opposing Faerie Artisans that I couldn't get rid of with Palace Jailer. He had a larger board than I did, so hoofing over it wasn't possible. After the other 2 players died to hoof, I died on the crack back.

In retrospect, I might should have gone for Avenger of Zendikar and played an additional turn of magic, but the Faerie Artisans player was a Jaheira, Friend of the Forest player (with Parallel Lives in play, so giving him 50 mana to play with didn't seem smart either.

Solitude! That was the play! Had to externally process it 🤣 that would have given him 2 removal spells, but they wouldn't have come at me with open mana to blink.

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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

Chromaticus wrote:
1 year ago
Played my first game with this deck last night - it did very well! The blink pieces I had in play were Palace Jailer (man is that card obnoxious) Springbloom Druid Eternal Witness.

The Springbloom Druid came later in the game, so the ramp was a Birds of Paradise and one activation of Sword of Hearth and Home.

I think the most interesting thing about the play pattern of this de k is that you really don't want to / have to commit to the board almost at all. Even with access to a full grip, it was mostly better for me to hold up multiples of 3 mana. Additionally, you get a lot of free points for threat of activation and neutralizing attacks with blink mana.

I eventually played Eladamri's Call end of turn to find Craterhoof Behemoth with 5 other creatures out when life totals were fairly low, and blinked it to give everybody +12 / +12. The only issue was an opposing Faerie Artisans that I couldn't get rid of with Palace Jailer. He had a larger board than I did, so hoofing over it wasn't possible. After the other 2 players died to hoof, I died on the crack back.

In retrospect, I might should have gone for Avenger of Zendikar and played an additional turn of magic, but the Faerie Artisans player was a Jaheira, Friend of the Forest player (with Parallel Lives in play, so giving him 50 mana to play with didn't seem smart either.

Solitude! That was the play! Had to externally process it 🤣 that would have given him 2 removal spells, but they wouldn't have come at me with open mana to blink.
Nice! I like that this deck has a lot of potential plays to make it has a high skill ceiling, and it's good that you caught on to not over committing, no reason to lose to a board wipe.

Glad you enjoyed the deck, not knowing the specifics of the match another play could have been Cataclysmic Gearhulk.
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Post by Chromaticus » 1 year ago

That would have worked better, yes. Especially because I'd already achieved an active Emeria, the Sky Ruin, I would have recovered the fastest from the wipe.

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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

Chromaticus wrote:
1 year ago
That would have worked better, yes. Especially because I'd already achieved an active Emeria, the Sky Ruin, I would have recovered the fastest from the wipe.
Haha, deck is hard, and tutors are always tricky when you didn't pick out the tutor targets yourself.
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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

Another set, another run down (I say, trying to make it sound like I always remember to do set reviews for this deck, but in reality, this is like the second time I've done it).

Great Desert Prospector is a nice combo with Emiel the Blessed, not infinite because the powerstones are tapped, and the powerstones don't really work with anything else in the deck, but it's a Wood Elves on steroids if you do have Emiel the Blessed so I think it's worth trying out. On the flip side, I've worked really hard to ensure this deck isn't too reliant on its commander, so this is really gonna have to prove itself in order for me to keep it.

Loran of the Third Path looks like a new mono-white staple to me. But we are not in mono-white, Loran has to compete with Knight of Autumn. I do believe the symetrical draw effect is better than the 2 other modes on Knight of Autumn, but it's not green, which means Green Sun's Zenith can't grab it. Obviously if you are willing to run to artifact/enchantment removal creatures they are both great, if you have to pick one though, it's close, I suppose nothing ventured nothing gained, so I'll try it for a while and see.

Meticulous Excavation meh, we are a link deck, not a bounce deck, and we can't even use he unearth synergies.

Tocasia's Welcome is another catalyst, which I have made my opinions on pretty clear, we just have way better ways to draw cards if that's what we are after.

Urza's Sylex has no particular synergies with this deck but is an absolute house. But it's a hefty mana investment, and will likely draw ire from other players, so I think we should pass.

Fade from History. I've been considering Bane of Progress a lot, this is another option, which trades the ability to be flickered, with a much more palatable MV

Boulderbranch Golem works well with in a flicker deck, as you can cast it for the prototype cost, then when it get's flickered it will return as a 6/5, but even then, is that really better than Thragtusk or Resolute Archangel?


I think that's everything, for some reason I thought I remembered seeing a board wipe stapled to a creature during spoiler season, but I must have been thinking of Urza's Sylex.
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Post by Dunadain » 1 year ago

So I keep up with Legacy quite a bit. For those of you that don't, Mono-white Stompy Initiative is making waves (like seriously, it might be a top tier deck going forward), now that these Initiative cards are available on mtgo, people are beginning to realize just how strong Initiative is, and I'm always eager to play with the dungeon mechanics, so brace yourself for another rambling thought process:

I have a number of thoughts:

First of all, how well does Initiative translate into commander? In legacy (and pauper before most of them were banned) you usually hug the left wall of the Undercity.
"Image"

Secret Entrance → Forge → Trap → Archives → Throne of the Dead Three

All of these modes are great in a 2 player game with 20 life, Forge and Trap will kill an opponent VERY fast, and if they can fend that off, Secret Entrance, Archives, and Throne of the Dead Three will bury them in card advantage.

In EDH though? Forge and Trap are not nearly as impressive. I imagine the best path will probably be:

Secret Entrance → Lost Well → Arena → Archives → Throne of the Dead Three.

This seems significantly weaker to me, It's unfortunate that you can't have Stash + Archives.

Additionally, in a 4 player game you have to defend the Initiative from 3 opponents instead of 1. I do think this deck is well equipped to take/keep the initiative for all the same reasons the deck is great at defending planeswalkers, but it's still going to be difficult.

I should probably take a second to consider the OG venture mechanic, but I don't think there's anything there. There is some truth to the idea that venturing into the regular dungeons can't backfire the way initiative can, and as a blink deck we are able to abuse etb venture abilities, so always venturing once per turn with initiative is less relevant. At the end of the day, however, none of that matters because the Undercity is so much stronger than the other 3 dungeons.

I don't really see a need to look at all the initiative cards, White Plume Adventurer is the best because it's the cheapest and that's really all there is to it, After that, Seasoned Dungeoneer and Undermountain Adventurer both look decent.

Ultimately, I think I am going to try White Plume Adventurer, I think it's comparable to Nissa, Vastwood Seer // Nissa, Sage Animist, in that it's a 3 drop that secures your next land drop and provides value going long. Therefore, that's the swap I'm going to make for now, I think you can probably run both, but it's a fairly straightforward 1-1 swap for testing purposes.

Edit: Also, it's been a while since I've updated the actual list, sorry about that. The list in the OP is now up-to-date
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