The Shattered Realm: Mechanical

User avatar
Venedrex
Wait, we can have titles?
Posts: 1411
Joined: 3 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Venedrex » 3 years ago

As de facto set design lead, I am pleased to launch the official thread for the mechanical side of the set project. Original brief:
Krishnath wrote:
3 years ago
1. The Shattered Realm: A world wherein all land masses float, literally, in the sky. Think a cross between Serra's Realm and Zendikar and you wouldn't be far off the realms appearance. Obviously, the setting would have a lot of flying creatures, but also spiders and other creatures with reach. Higher up, the floating ground becomes more sparse, while further down it becomes denser. Natural light levels vary, with more light near the top and less near the bottom. Furthest down there is no natural light at all and terrible nightmarish creatures.
What I believe we should focus on first, in no particular order is a rough overview of the set including size of the set, color breakdown (aka wedge, shard, two-color focus etc etc), as well as mechanics.
Epicurean, EDH without Universes Beyond.

http://nxs.wf/np748831

dangerousdice
Posts: 121
Joined: 3 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Contact:

Post by dangerousdice » 3 years ago

I have a few ideas for mechanics, as seen below.



first of all, is foresight, a ability associated with the thalaktos. I think this would be a interesting ability word, and its unique.

foresight - whenever you name a card or scry, [effect].


for dauthi, a more flexible monstrosity/adapt/renown variant.

privilege N [event] (when/whenever [event] happens, if this creature isn't privileged, put N +1/+1 counters on it. It becomes privileged.)


and finally, enchantment emerge, it's for the elves.

weave [COST] (You may cast this spell by sacrificing a enchantment and paying the weave cost reduced by that enchantment's mana value)

User avatar
Krishnath
Mechanical Dragon
Posts: 3565
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: A cave somewhere in Scandinavia

Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

Although those mechanics are nice, I think it would be a mistake to tie the sets mechanical identity to the various races when the set most certainly is not tribal or faction focused.
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.

Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.

The Commander Legacy Project, Come say hello and give your thoughts.

Like to read? Love books and want to recommend one to your fellow forum users? Go here.

User avatar
Feyd_Ruin
Elder Vampire
Posts: 5400
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 3
Pronoun: he / him
Contact:

Post by Feyd_Ruin » 3 years ago

dangerousdice wrote:
3 years ago
weave [COST] (You may cast this spell by sacrificing a enchantment and paying the weave cost reduced by that enchantment's mana value)
I know we hinted at an enchantment weave ability, but we came up with almost the same idea.,.
I like mine better though because I called it Reweave :rofl: :P

So do we want to go societal with the abilities? No exactly tribal, per se, but like: the Soltari society (which includes humans, etc) have an ability, the spider elves (who also take in Soltari/Dauthi outcasts) would have Reweave, etc?

OR do we want to differentiate ourselves from other faction sets by having mechanics that span the divide?
With us having two-color base societies, we will probably end up with gold cards. By having the mechanics span across all factions, we would have a strong distinction from Ravnica, Strixhaven, Alara, and other "Each color group gets its own mechanic" sets.

We could still keep a reweave type mechanic - heck, we could even decide that we love enchantments and want to make enchantments a theme, tying it into the plane's lore.
To the beaten, the broken, or the damned; the lost, and the wayward: wherever I may be, you will have a home.

User avatar
void_nothing
Look On My Sash...
Posts: 14922
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 124
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Tal Terig, Zendikar

Post by void_nothing » 3 years ago

I'm against making this an out-and-out "faction set" but for making it an enchantment-matters one; indeed, flying matters and enchantment matters were the first two themes that came to mind for me.
Psst, check the second page of Custom Card Contests & Games! Because of the daily contests, a lot of games fall down to there.

The greatest (fake) pro wrestling on the internet - Collaborative Create-A-Booster - My random creations (updated regularly)

Important Facts: Colorless is not a color, Wastes is not a land type, Changeling is not a creature type

User avatar
Venedrex
Wait, we can have titles?
Posts: 1411
Joined: 3 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Venedrex » 3 years ago

void_nothing wrote:
3 years ago
I'm against making this an out-and-out "faction set" but for making it an enchantment-matters one; indeed, flying matters and enchantment matters were the first two themes that came to mind for me.
I'd be down for enchantments. There have been at least two artifact centric planes (Mirrodin and Kaladesh, not sure if Dominaria counts since it is more legendaries in general), while Theros is the only enchantment focused plane that exists to my knowledge. Enchantments also feels like they have a nice contrast to the more material card types such as lands in Zendikar or artifacts in other planes.
Epicurean, EDH without Universes Beyond.

http://nxs.wf/np748831

User avatar
void_nothing
Look On My Sash...
Posts: 14922
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 124
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Tal Terig, Zendikar

Post by void_nothing » 3 years ago

The question then becomes, how does the enchantment theme fit in with the flavor?
Psst, check the second page of Custom Card Contests & Games! Because of the daily contests, a lot of games fall down to there.

The greatest (fake) pro wrestling on the internet - Collaborative Create-A-Booster - My random creations (updated regularly)

Important Facts: Colorless is not a color, Wastes is not a land type, Changeling is not a creature type

User avatar
Venedrex
Wait, we can have titles?
Posts: 1411
Joined: 3 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Venedrex » 3 years ago

void_nothing wrote:
3 years ago
The question then becomes, how does the enchantment theme fit in with the flavor?
That is a good question. I think I could see enchantments representing the mystic powers of the Elves magical spider weaving, or possibly weather patterns studied by the Thalakos?

Maybe something like this?

Airachnidian Robe
Enchantment - Aura (U)
Enchanted creature gets +2/+2 and has shroud.
Last edited by Venedrex 3 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Epicurean, EDH without Universes Beyond.

http://nxs.wf/np748831

User avatar
void_nothing
Look On My Sash...
Posts: 14922
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 124
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Tal Terig, Zendikar

Post by void_nothing » 3 years ago

Well Theros's angle is "enchanted dreams/night sky". "Enchanted weather" is QUITE different than that.
Psst, check the second page of Custom Card Contests & Games! Because of the daily contests, a lot of games fall down to there.

The greatest (fake) pro wrestling on the internet - Collaborative Create-A-Booster - My random creations (updated regularly)

Important Facts: Colorless is not a color, Wastes is not a land type, Changeling is not a creature type

User avatar
Feyd_Ruin
Elder Vampire
Posts: 5400
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 3
Pronoun: he / him
Contact:

Post by Feyd_Ruin » 3 years ago

I've always wanted to do an enchantment set, but I didn't want my biased to push it too much >_<
void_nothing wrote:
3 years ago
The question then becomes, how does the enchantment theme fit in with the flavor?
So we know that the general land itself is (at least somewhat) magical. Floatstone, driftrocks, etc. This could easily be a building point that we expand upon. Whether the world exploded or was made this way, the land itself is infused with magic. Leylines of mana float through the air, as they connect rock to rock. The stone itself is magic, with peculiar properties that can be tapped into.

Obviously we need to make sure there's a strong distinction between them and the hedrons of zendikar, but one of the biggest things is that the hedrons were made. They were designed and carved and enchanted with purpose. The driftrocks of Alireen are what they are, naturally. They can be rewoven and attuned, but their natural form returns after a while because they just are.

EDIT:
The above posts hit as I was typing.
If we added this to the weather above, we could have the entire environment be the magic enchanted aspect?

--

I love the feel and vorthos visuals of "reweaving" enchantments.
I think we should definitely not do enchantment creatures, etc.
Let that remain a Theros thing.


I think finding an enchantment mechanic that really feels like it belongs in Red is the hard part. If we can land a mechanic that really feels like it belongs in Red too, we've got some gold.
To the beaten, the broken, or the damned; the lost, and the wayward: wherever I may be, you will have a home.

User avatar
void_nothing
Look On My Sash...
Posts: 14922
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 124
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Tal Terig, Zendikar

Post by void_nothing » 3 years ago

I must say "The enchantment is everywhere" is a hell of a tagline. I like the idea that it's the whole environment that's involved here, from the weather to the driftrock formations.
Psst, check the second page of Custom Card Contests & Games! Because of the daily contests, a lot of games fall down to there.

The greatest (fake) pro wrestling on the internet - Collaborative Create-A-Booster - My random creations (updated regularly)

Important Facts: Colorless is not a color, Wastes is not a land type, Changeling is not a creature type

User avatar
Venedrex
Wait, we can have titles?
Posts: 1411
Joined: 3 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Venedrex » 3 years ago

Feyd_Ruin wrote:
3 years ago
I've always wanted to do an enchantment set, but I didn't want my biased to push it too much >_<
void_nothing wrote:
3 years ago
The question then becomes, how does the enchantment theme fit in with the flavor?
So we know that the general land itself is (at least somewhat) magical. Floatstone, driftrocks, etc. This could easily be a building point that we expand upon. Whether the world exploded or was made this way, the land itself is infused with magic. Leylines of mana float through the air, as they connect rock to rock. The stone itself is magic, with peculiar properties that can be tapped into.

Obviously we need to make sure there's a strong distinction between them and the hedrons of zendikar, but one of the biggest things is that the hedrons were made. They were designed and carved and enchanted with purpose. The driftrocks of Alireen are what they are, naturally. They can be rewoven and attuned, but their natural form returns after a while because they just are.

EDIT:
The above posts hit as I was typing.
If we added this to the weather above, we could have the entire environment be the magic enchanted aspect?

--

I love the feel and vorthos visuals of "reweaving" enchantments.
I think we should definitely not do enchantment creatures, etc.
Let that remain a Theros thing.


I think finding an enchantment mechanic that really feels like it belongs in Red is the hard part. If we can land a mechanic that really feels like it belongs in Red too, we've got some gold.
One thing I will say is, and I apologize for immediately going against you on it, but we may want to hold on to the idea of using enchantment creatures for a while. The main reason I bring this up is because I think that depending on the scale of our enchantment focus, we may need a LOT of enchantments to make sure we meet the as-fan requirements of the set.

We could very well not need them if the enchantment theme is minor, but if we major on it, I think enchantment creatures could be a valuable tool in our arsenal. I understand not wanting to be too similar to Theros, but I think enchantment creatures have a lot of potential to be flavored in ways that would distinguish them from the Theros versions, and I've read that Maro thinks they could even become evergreen eventually.

Long story short, I agree with you and think you're right about keeping the flavor of things seperate, but part of me feels that there is a lot of design space in enchantment creatures, and they could come in handy in certain situations assuming we have a significant enchantment theme. I guess I kinda see them as a "break glass in case of emergency" type of thing.
Epicurean, EDH without Universes Beyond.

http://nxs.wf/np748831

User avatar
Feyd_Ruin
Elder Vampire
Posts: 5400
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 3
Pronoun: he / him
Contact:

Post by Feyd_Ruin » 3 years ago

Venedrex wrote:
3 years ago
I apologize for immediately going against you on it
Never be afraid of giving your opinion and thoughts. That's what this whole group thing is about.

I liked the idea of not doing enchantment creatures so this can stand apart from the only other real enchantment sets (Theros), but as long as there is a strong distinction between them and the nyxborn of theros, it's not something I'm vehemently against or anything like that.

We could do something cool and unique, like make Enchantment Elementals.
To the beaten, the broken, or the damned; the lost, and the wayward: wherever I may be, you will have a home.

User avatar
SecretInfiltrator
Posts: 5701
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: they / them
Location: The Shattered Realm

Post by SecretInfiltrator » 3 years ago

Regarding tribal aspects: While I don't want a major tribal theme, I suppose we should have one or two cards for each Soltari, Thalakos, Dauthi, Viashino/Dragon and Elf/Spider, the last two especially with a focus on Viashino & Spider. Helping out some small tribes when they get to finally feature majorly in a set.

I feel the set doesn't need any particular color consideration. The five main civilizations fit nicely into enemy colors, but we'll not be focusing on tribal, so draft themes can fall into all ten color pairs.

We can go a little harder into multi-color than

I'm really happy with enchantments as a main theme. Auras could also support the flying theme, so cross-synergy is an option. Enchantments already were mentioned for black-green Elves and red-white Soltari, but I can imagine that Thalakos arranging of Floatstone also counts as "weaving" in the grander scheme.

Re: Enchantment mechanic that works well in red. We have weave already that works well in red. I imagine ETB/bury effects on global enchantments at common to substitute some sorceries.

User avatar
Krishnath
Mechanical Dragon
Posts: 3565
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: A cave somewhere in Scandinavia

Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

Flavoring the enchantments as an overabundance of solid magical energy (similar to both Shandalar and Alara's Maelstrom) would explain some of the planes phenomenons, like the floatstone that causes well, the floating rocks all over the plane. I am all for some enchantment creatures, as long as they are flavored differently than the Nyxborn, it shouldn't really be a problem. And that really isn't hard to do, particularly if they are manifestations of the planes mana (which could also drive the weather). I like the idea of making the elementals of the plane into enchantment creatures, but I wouldn't stop there. I could imagine that the planes faeries are also an extension of the mana, giving them the enchantment type for example, and we need not stop there, making other enchantment creatures as need be.
As for mechanics tied to enchantments, there is plenty of mechanical space to use that either hasn't been used by WotC or they have only scratched the surface of. Metalcraft for example could easily be remodeled into caring about enchantments instead (with a new name obviously), after all, constellation is basically a slightly retooled landfall that cares about enchantments instead of land.
So, basically a so called "threshold mechanic" that cares about enchantments instead of artifacts (or cards in graveyard, etc.).
(Plus, an enchantment theme would give me an excuse to design an "enchantress" that produces creature tokens, lol.)


As for tribal aspects, a minor tribal theme could work just fine, it's been done before, and it'll be done again the future. You really only need around 10 creatures for a minor tribal theme in a standard sized set anyway, as long as at least four of them are common. For example, Fate Reforged, which had a minor dragon tribal theme, only had 11 dragons total, spread among five colors, and five of those dragons were legendary. And Dragons of Tarkir which had the dragons as the main focus had a total of 26 dragons spread among five colors, more than half of which were rare or mythic. So it really isn't a problem to have minor tribal themes, as long as there are a few cards not belonging to said tribes that support the them.
So I am all for some minor Soltari, Thalakos, Dauthi, Viashino, and Spider tribal.


I also has a suggestion for a general creature mechanic that I think would work well with both the tribal aspects and the enchantment theme. It basically gives the creature with the ability a small power/toughness boost if you control a specific type of permanent (or a specific permanent, it's open ended like that). I call it Dominion, but it really needs a better name. It basically reads:

Dominion - X (This creature gets +1/+1 if you control X).

X can be literally anything: A basic land type, a specific permanent type, a specific subtype, a specific permanent card, or even a specific supertype (such as Snow or Legendary) For example:

Carrion Shade 2B
Creature - Shade (C)
Dominion - Zombie (This creature gets +1/+1 if you control a Zombie)
1B: Carrion Shade gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
0/1

But, as I said, it really needs a new name. >.<
But it works well with the enchantment theme, and the minor tribal themes.
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.

Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.

The Commander Legacy Project, Come say hello and give your thoughts.

Like to read? Love books and want to recommend one to your fellow forum users? Go here.

User avatar
folding_music
glitter pen on my mana crypt
Posts: 2236
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: they / them

Post by folding_music » 3 years ago

I like the idea of an enchantment set! We could think up an enchantment token for several cards in the set to generate; it should be based on something intangible rather than being anything describable as an object.

i've long had an idea about a set which used Auras instead of +1/+1 counters, like:
Purpose
Enchantment - Aura Token
Enchanted creature gets +1/+1.

so that they'd count for things like Eidolon of Blossoms, Auratog, etc. then you could have creatures like:

Inspirer of Ambition
Creature - Dauthi Shaman
, , Discard a card: Create a Purpose token and attach it to target creature. This ability costs less for each enchantment you control.
1/1

or something!

the other idea I had would add utility and resilience to various enchantment-based decks:
Whim
Enchantment - Token
, Sacrifice Whim: Choose one -
- Attach target Aura attached to a permanent to another permanent of the same type.
- Return target Enchantment you control to its owner's hand.

(definitely do NOT make a Trail of Crumbs expy for these tokens lol)

ps, I know views are mixed on Enchantment Creatures, but if we do have them I'd say leave them out of red and white; the societies we've suggested for those two colours are based in physical achievement, with viashino forcing their own evolution and soltari becoming great builders. In this set those colours are all about tangibility and self-actualization and stuff.

User avatar
Krishnath
Mechanical Dragon
Posts: 3565
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: A cave somewhere in Scandinavia

Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

folding_music wrote:
3 years ago
ps, I know views are mixed on Enchantment Creatures, but if we do have them I'd say leave them out of red and white; the societies we've suggested for those two colours are based in physical achievement, with viashino forcing their own evolution and soltari becoming great builders. In this set those colours are all about tangibility and self-actualization and stuff.
I think leaving them out of a color would be bad, however, I do think that they should be in smaller numbers in white and red. Putting most of them in blue, with a slightly smaller amount in green and black, and fewest in red and white would work well. But as long as we don't make any of the major races (humans, dauthi, soltari, thalakos, elves, and viashino) into enchantment creatures, but instead limiting them to things like elementals and wild creatures, as well as the obviously mana created creatures (such as angels, demons, and the faeries) we should be safe, and it would also make them more distinct than those of Theros.
I could imagine that the handful of sphinxes in the set being enchantment creatures as well, but it is not a necessity, it just meshes well with their natures as guardians of knowledge.
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.

Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.

The Commander Legacy Project, Come say hello and give your thoughts.

Like to read? Love books and want to recommend one to your fellow forum users? Go here.

User avatar
Feyd_Ruin
Elder Vampire
Posts: 5400
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 3
Pronoun: he / him
Contact:

Post by Feyd_Ruin » 3 years ago

I just had an idea on enchantment creatures and it reverses my opinion:
INCARNATIONS!
We've had a couple cycles and random incarnations before, with just enough to position it as a creature type that exists across the multiverse without a common mechanical theme.
With everything enchantment-laiden, leylines that go through the air from rock to rock, etc, I think enchantment creature Incarnations , as the manifestation of basal ideas and emotions, would fit wonderfully.
Thoughts?
To the beaten, the broken, or the damned; the lost, and the wayward: wherever I may be, you will have a home.

User avatar
Krishnath
Mechanical Dragon
Posts: 3565
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: A cave somewhere in Scandinavia

Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

Feyd_Ruin wrote:
3 years ago
I just had an idea on enchantment creatures and it reverses my opinion:
INCARNATIONS!
We've had a couple cycles and random incarnations before, with just enough to position it as a creature type that exists across the multiverse without a common mechanical theme.
With everything enchantment-laiden, leylines that go through the air from rock to rock, etc, I think enchantment creature Incarnations , as the manifestation of basal ideas and emotions, would fit wonderfully.
Thoughts?
I like it.

Enchantment Creature - Elemental Incarnation.

Sounds like a nice cycle.

So, Elementals, Faeries, Incarnations, and a few one offs with other creature types, yeah?
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.

Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.

The Commander Legacy Project, Come say hello and give your thoughts.

Like to read? Love books and want to recommend one to your fellow forum users? Go here.

User avatar
Feyd_Ruin
Elder Vampire
Posts: 5400
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 3
Pronoun: he / him
Contact:

Post by Feyd_Ruin » 3 years ago

This could be one of red's strong points to make it feel more at home. Red excels at reweaving enchantments into aggressive incarnations that act as weapons.

Fury of the Storm 3R
Enchantment Creature — Elemental Incarnation
Reweave
Haste, Trample
5/3

Addendum: it's very important to note that black cannot get rid of its own enchantments. If black casts a Liliana's Contract, it can't get rid of it through any mono black means. So we have to be careful with how reweave works, OR limit it's colors.
To the beaten, the broken, or the damned; the lost, and the wayward: wherever I may be, you will have a home.

User avatar
Krishnath
Mechanical Dragon
Posts: 3565
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: A cave somewhere in Scandinavia

Post by Krishnath » 3 years ago

Reweave makes the most sense in green and white (which should get the most), with red and blue getting fewer, and black getting none.
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.

Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.

The Commander Legacy Project, Come say hello and give your thoughts.

Like to read? Love books and want to recommend one to your fellow forum users? Go here.

User avatar
SecretInfiltrator
Posts: 5701
Joined: 4 years ago
Pronoun: they / them
Location: The Shattered Realm

Post by SecretInfiltrator » 3 years ago

folding_music wrote:
3 years ago
ps, I know views are mixed on Enchantment Creatures, but if we do have them I'd say leave them out of red and white; the societies we've suggested for those two colours are based in physical achievement, with viashino forcing their own evolution and soltari becoming great builders. In this set those colours are all about tangibility and self-actualization and stuff.
I don't care too much about enchantment creatures (especially Elementals again) in this set, but just a reminder: There will be plenty red creatures that are neither Viashino nor Soltari. Ixalan e. g. was tribal and ca. 20% of the creatures were neither of the four featured tribes,

User avatar
Venedrex
Wait, we can have titles?
Posts: 1411
Joined: 3 years ago
Answers: 2
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Venedrex » 3 years ago

Just saw a post from Maro on Blogatog that I think could be helpful when we get to this stage: https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/a ... 2021-03-22
Epicurean, EDH without Universes Beyond.

http://nxs.wf/np748831

dangerousdice
Posts: 121
Joined: 3 years ago
Pronoun: he / him
Contact:

Post by dangerousdice » 3 years ago

Krishnath wrote:
3 years ago
I also has a suggestion for a general creature mechanic that I think would work well with both the tribal aspects and the enchantment theme. It basically gives the creature with the ability a small power/toughness boost if you control a specific type of permanent (or a specific permanent, it's open ended like that). I call it Dominion, but it really needs a better name. It basically reads:

Dominion - X (This creature gets +1/+1 if you control X).

would "status" be a better name for dominion?

status - X (This creature gets +1/+1 if you control X).

User avatar
Feyd_Ruin
Elder Vampire
Posts: 5400
Joined: 4 years ago
Answers: 3
Pronoun: he / him
Contact:

Post by Feyd_Ruin » 3 years ago

SecretInfiltrator wrote:
3 years ago
I don't care too much about enchantment creatures (especially Elementals again) in this set
I'm still not completely sold on the idea, but we haven't had enchantment elementals before?
Lucent Liminid exists, and there were three nyxborn who happened to be elementals. Otherwise nothing. But I posit we could have enchantment creatures if we stuck with nonsentients like elementals / incarnations. They are enchantment magic given physical form.

It's what makes sense to me without being too Theros-like. Having enchantment elves or anything else that has a soul or real physical life — basically anything you expect to be born as a baby, makes it feel too close to nyxborn to me.
To the beaten, the broken, or the damned; the lost, and the wayward: wherever I may be, you will have a home.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Custom Cards”