Varina, Lich Queen - Esper Zombie Midrange

[Supersprite]

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[Supersprite]

Well morality shift seems crazy risky but on par with theme. It enables a few instant kills;

Varina+ashnods altar+wayward servant/corpse knight/plague belcher play ms win
Or
Morality shift+balthor/living dead/zombie apocalypse = win, with gray merchant and such

But it should win at the spot or die trough draws at upkeep

I'm not sure how it works out with method #1 - because your graveyard/library never enters play I can't see how they trigger the aristocrats.

That second method definitely would work - if it doesn't outright win the game it'd get pretty close. Damn risky though!

Youll have about 60-100 cards in your library when you can cast morality shift, varina says pay 2 exile 2 and make a zombie. Sac the zombie make another one. Thats about 30 to 50 triggers each trigger exiling 1 from the yard

[toctheyounger]

Ah yeah, I get you now. Hence the necessity of Ashnod's Altar. I like the 'double or nothing' vibe of these plans, and I think if you could pull it off you'd get some props from the table for such a crazy move. Given that it's such a risky maneuver, you're probably wanting this to go off super early. At best, I could see maybe 30-40 activations of Varina's ability, so it's definitely something you want to do sooner than later, before your opponents can stretch their life totals out of reach. That being said, Lab Man or new Jace would be decent contingencies if Morality Shift doesn't entirely close out the game.

[toctheyounger]

A couple of small changes:

In:
Corpse Knight
Apprentice Necromancer

Out:
Soul Diviner
Beacon of Unrest

Nothing overly surprising. We've talked about Soul Diviner not really pulling it's weight, and nothing has changed there. It was easy to remove. Beacon of Unrest I like but it's expensive and not a zombie. I'm not crazily convinced Apprentice will be amazing, but it's a reasonably similar effect that's attached to a zombie, and I had wanted to up the count of zombies. I still do want a couple of other lords, but I will have to wait and grab them when they crop up at my LGS.

[Supersprite]

Two zombies i would like to try out:

Metallic mimic. A 2 mana lord.

Annnd.. undead alchemist. I dont care about the discard theme but more zombies means more life and more filtering. It can get out of hand quick. Dig for that second sun. Sounds ok.

[toctheyounger]

I can see why you'd want to go for both of those. I've stayed away from both for different reasons, but I have considered both.

Metallic Mimic - It's low costed, and it buffs, sure. It also turns off undying for Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, which a big deterrent for me.
Undead Alchemist - I've looked at this and moved on purely because I'm not really all that well set up for a mill theme.

That being said, I can see how Alchemist would be gross. I definitely think it'd be worth looking at leaning into it with Altar of the Brood, maybe even Mesmeric Orb. That could get crazy pretty quickly.

[Supersprite]

Well no discard theme, thats not what i want. I want zombies and triggers. Discard zombies still get etb and varina triggers. maybe kind of win more?

Increasing confusion seems nuts! Ux target player mills x. Flashback ux the same but double. Fill up your yard!

[toctheyounger]

Well no discard theme, thats not what i want. I want zombies and triggers. Discard zombies still get etb and varina triggers. maybe kind of win more?

Not sure what you're meaning here. I was saying that the alchemist triggers from any mill, so something like Altar of the Brood is going to give you a ton of zombies to swing with. I get that you might not want to lean into mill 100% though, Alchemist is just one card, and it isn't in your command zone.

Increasing confusion seems nuts! Ux target player mills x. Flashback ux the same but double. Fill up your yard!

It is pretty good for that. That being said, I'd prefer to be able to be somewhat selective in what hits my yard. Milling yourself wholesale means risking losing a control piece or essential removal with no way to recur it, and that can be a big problem, at least for my build. The other big deterrent for me in this card is the mana required to cast it. My build is really pretty lean on extra mana, so pushing all my mana into this means either powering it down to follow up in the same turn with a reanimation spell, or going 100% with it and casting the same next turn, which obviously leaves us wide open to losing a ton through Bojuka Bog or similar.

[Supersprite]

Ugh undead pharaoh is so good. The 5 mana doesnt matter. You want to discard it as a rattle snake. Who would dare to attack you now?

I have found fallen shinibi to be a gem. 4 mana 2 random spells/permanents for free is worth it. After all who plays weak cards anymore? And its just a fun effect too. Enjoy!

[toctheyounger]

Ugh undead pharaoh is so good. The 5 mana doesnt matter. You want to discard it as a rattle snake. Who would dare to attack you now?

I have found fallen shinibi to be a gem. 4 mana 2 random spells/permanents for free is worth it. After all who plays weak cards anymore? And its just a fun effect too. Enjoy!

I have heard good things about Vengeful Pharaoh. I ought to track down a copy.

Fallen Shinobi I had wondered about. It'd play nicely with casting zombies inclusions like God-Eternal Oketra and Diregraf Colossus as well as Noxious Ghoul. Might be worth looking into.

For myself I'm looking at switching out some spot removal for one more wipe. It'd have to be the right card, right now I'm tossing up Merciless Eviction (for modal options), Kindred Dominance (pretty obvious why), and the original Wrath of God (for CMC reasons). All three have their benefits, I've just found that spot removal in high concentration becomes almost too surgical - you can pick things apart, but not enough to gain the upper hand, and it almost renders the mass reanimation spells a bit redundant. So I think I'll probably drop one of the spot removals (probably Despark) and add one more big sweeper. I'm also still looking at adding in some counter magic, it's a work in progress obviously.

[RedCheese]

SPOILER

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Well Ladies, gentleman and Zombie enthusiast, a new include for our queen?

[toctheyounger]

Oh damn. Waste Not on a zombie. Yeah I'll definitely pick a copy up.

[RedCheese]

Oh damn. Waste Not on a zombie. Yeah I'll definitely pick a copy up.

Reverse Waste Not actually, making it betetr with Varina

[toctheyounger]

Very true. I mean, it's hard to think it doesn't deserve a place to be honest. It builds our board, generates mana and digs for us, depending on what we want. If anything I'd say it's better than Waste Not, at least in this context.

[blinx28]

Bone Miser has gotta get in there.

I'm not sure what my build loses here for it---and i'm typically a stickler for lowering my CMC at all costs....but i think it's gonna be Fact or Fiction, or one of my aristocrats Plague Belcher or Vengeful Dead (this card goes off with Tombstone Stairwell, but that combo seems a bit narrow).

Slim pickings these days when the game plan is pretty clear. My deck has changed a bit in the last few weeks (swapped in esper goodstuff like Land Tax and Demonic Tutor) so please see here if anyone's looking for includes or has suggestions or add/swaps!

https://archidekt.com/decks/74853#Varina%27s_Deadboys

[toctheyounger]

Bone Miser has gotta get in there.

I'm not sure what my build loses here for it---and i'm typically a stickler for lowering my CMC at all costs....but i think it's gonna be Fact or Fiction, or one of my aristocrats Plague Belcher or Vengeful Dead (this card goes off with Tombstone Stairwell, but that combo seems a bit narrow).

Slim pickings these days when the game plan is pretty clear. My deck has changed a bit in the last few weeks (swapped in esper goodstuff like Land Tax and Demonic Tutor) so please see here if anyone's looking for includes or has suggestions or add/swaps!

https://archidekt.com/decks/74853#Varina%27s_Deadboys

I think it'd be easy to pick Fact or Fiction or Binding Mummy for your build. Binding is cute, I ran it once upon a time, I just remember it not really having the impact I'd hoped for. Otherwise, maybe Authority of the Consuls?

Otherwise I think your build is looking pretty solid. Hows it playing out? I notice a Lich Lord of Unx in there, has it played out well? Was thinking of trying it out, but I figured it was a little mana intensive, and needs a large mass of zombies to really bleed the board heavily.

[RedCheese]

Bone Miser has gotta get in there.

I'm not sure what my build loses here for it---and i'm typically a stickler for lowering my CMC at all costs....but i think it's gonna be Fact or Fiction, or one of my aristocrats Plague Belcher or Vengeful Dead (this card goes off with Tombstone Stairwell, but that combo seems a bit narrow).

Slim pickings these days when the game plan is pretty clear. My deck has changed a bit in the last few weeks (swapped in esper goodstuff like Land Tax and Demonic Tutor) so please see here if anyone's looking for includes or has suggestions or add/swaps!

https://archidekt.com/decks/74853#Varina%27s_Deadboys

I think it'd be easy to pick Fact or Fiction or Binding Mummy for your build. Binding is cute, I ran it once upon a time, I just remember it not really having the impact I'd hoped for. Otherwise, maybe Authority of the Consuls?

Otherwise I think your build is looking pretty solid. Hows it playing out? I notice a Lich Lord of Unx in there, has it played out well? Was thinking of trying it out, but I figured it was a little mana intensive, and needs a large mass of zombies to really bleed the board heavily.

Lich Lord of Unx has been fantastic to me in certain situations. He managed to kill a couple of players,s pecially the oens behind the land with culmualtive upkeep(forogt its name). Its a solid card to atatck your oppoents from another angle.

I like Binding Mummy, using Varina to tapp a threat at instant speed with 2 mana is hilarious. Also tapps blockers so your zombies can push through.

[toctheyounger]

Lich Lord of Unx has been fantastic to me in certain situations. He managed to kill a couple of players,s pecially the oens behind the land with culmualtive upkeep(forogt its name). Its a solid card to atatck your oppoents from another angle.

I like Binding Mummy, using Varina to tapp a threat at instant speed with 2 mana is hilarious. Also tapps blockers so your zombies can push through.

Glacial Chasm is the land you're thinking of. I'd thought about bringing a copy through here, but it's actually damn hard to come by to be honest. I'm gonna hold off on the Lich Lord myself for now. It seems pretty mana intensive, and that puts it closer to the bottom of the list of cards I'd like to include.

Binding Mummy...maybe I didn't give it enough thought, or maybe I wasn't using it right? I took it out fairly early into the build, before I really got deep into the shenanigans Varina can pull. I guess it makes combat more relevant, and there's bound to be times tapping something like a Winter Orb could be handy. I might well think about adding it back in for a higher zombie count if nothing else.

[RedCheese]

Yeah its a cheap mana cost zombie with some utiltiy so thats why its in my deck, but it puleld its weight decently.

Lich lord i can understand the resitation. Its steep mana cost requirements was a problem in certain scenarios, and a couple of times i simply discarded it for Varina because was useless in the board. But at times, like a lockdown on the board, he ends up winning the game and that ends up been its main function in the deck. Kinda of an alternate win condition in stalled board states, kinda like Shepherd of Rot in a sense.

[blinx28]

Lich Lord of Unx is in there for the lifedrain capacity and redundancy sorta for The Scarab God—comes down on curve to hit early if the mana's right, and do like having the tech stapled on to hit players out of combat, even though my build doesn't focus on tokens, the incidental value occasionally crops up....also works well with Tombstone Stairwell.

Binding Mummy has always been good to me for swinging through and safely triggering Varina, Lich Queen. Tapping down defenders never hurts.

Fact or Fiction might bite it but it's been super helpful and even political when I can select an opponent to choose piles based on threats and boardstate.

[Supersprite]

Lich lord is a too expensive skirk ridge exhumer imho. There are a lot of zombie 3 drops. I prefer no unnecesary blue mana. Second ability i never used. In a theorotic turn 4 i dont want top tap uub and a zombie for minor life loss. 2 mana for a 1/1 meh. Skirk ridge is a 2 drop that does that for b and gets a discard wich is relevant.

Bone miser... im not sure about it. The Min land counts toward your 1 land a turn. So thats mostly useless. Getting tokens of a windfall seems fun. And maybe my foil zombie infestation now can do some work? But overall its not oberpowered. The mana will be mostly useless if triggerd in the combat phase by varina... will try it tough, im sure people will come up with combos.

Im really lowering the curve now, you really want zombies t1 or 2 so varina is ready to go t4. I really like lazotep reaver and butcherghoul. Lazotep is 2 zombies for 1b. If i told you a sorcery existed that would say 1b get 2 zombies you would play it, wouldnt you? Butcher ghoul is a great drop because it returns thus keeping board presence while awaiting varinas trigger.

[Supersprite]

Oh btw bone miser goes infinite when you have 2 non creature non land cards in hand and discard with library of leng to lets say zombie infestation. Discard, draw the same 2 spells, create 2/2 token etc. Just came up with this while wandering if library of leng is useful here

[blinx28]

I think the split here is deciding to go all in on dropping Varina as fast as possible, vs looking for opportunity and value. Many of the low cmc zombies are excellent for getting the wheel going with Varina—-but imagine drawing Lazotep Reaver turn 7 or 8....not very useful.

I think you're right about Unx being expensive, but the value switches depending on when it's drawn. I pushed my curve down below 3.1, but ultimately I'm learning my preferred play style is set up a few bodies early for a little selection, hold up interaction and throw zombies into yard, and defend until mass reanimation.

There's no right build, but the new c19 5 drop zombie does seem to aid my intended gameplan—-the mana during combat will mainly be used to exile the land I just tossed and another card to activate Varina's trigger to get a token, as if I pitched a creature.

[toctheyounger]

I see both sides of inclusion for both Miser and Lich Lord. It really comes down to your intended game plan and when you aim to finish the game. If you're after an early blowout pre-turn 7-8 you're probably want long to at least skip Miser if not Lich Lord too; Miser for CMC, Lich Lord for required conditions for efficacy. Sure, there's ways to get early swarms going, but inclusions based on optimal plays are inevitably going to be disappointing when your optimal plays don't happen.

As mine is very much a midrange tempi build there's a case for inclusion of both, albeit far more so for Miser because I don't generate squillions of Zombie tokens. Some, sure, but probably not enough to optimally run Lich Lord.

Ultimately I like Miser as a midrange advantage engine. From Varina's trigger the mana skill is likely to be pretty niche, but you do still have the options of making a token or drawing a card, neither of which are bad at all. Outside of that I also run Zombie Infestation, and I don't run hand size modifiers. So there's plenty of ways it can get me ahead. Making Infestation a mana sink or a 2 for 1 is fantastic. And in terms of pitching lands, it's something I do fairly regularly anyway when I have surplus, as I have no way of getting more than one into play per turn. I'd rather hold answers and I can put them towards zombies so it makes sense.

I do still think Lich Lord is best used in a swarm build, and that's purely because springing the mana to use its ability, while repeatable for value, is something I often wont have the flexibility to do, so I'm definitely happier to have the passive bleeders instead. Ultimately though, it wouldn't be too far of a stretch to consider its inclusion - I'd want lots more ways to reliably generate surplus mana, and lean more heavily into either playing a ton of zombies really quickly or generating a ton of tokens quickly.

[toctheyounger]

A couple of functional changes:

Out:
Despark, Utter End - I mentioned earlier I'd found the spot removal a bit excessive - I've been meaning to add some counter tech anyway and an addition wipe, so these are reasonable to remove - Despark is a bit conditional, Utter End is a little pricey to hold up mana for.
Windfall, Whispering Madness - These have been just alright. I've found I'd prefer to be a bit more selective in what I discard, and it just hasn't been worth running these for Archfiend of Ifnir synergies.
Infernal Darkness - I...just haven't cast this. Theoretically it could be fine, but I've just always had things I'd prefer to cast and that speaks volumes.

In:
Binding Mummy - Giving this one another go. There's a few options to make this do some cool things, with instantaneous zombies from Varina or Infestation, or just giving me a soft target to swing into.
Lord of the Undead - tracked this down finally. I still want an Undead Warchief and then I'm probably fine for Lord effects.
Counterspell, Arcane Denial - Tried and true control. u heavy in the case of the original, but unconditional otherwise, and I've found colour fixing easy enough recently.
Kindred Dominance - It's expensive, yes. It's also almost entirely one sided, barring The Scorpion God, so I'm happy enough to see if it fits.