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Rumpy5897
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 2 years ago

Seeing how this is temporarily a "how does banding" thread, I never understood banding creatures with flying or trample. How would that work? They band up with a plain old vanilla walker, and then what...?
 
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Post by 3drinks » 2 years ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
2 years ago
Seeing how this is temporarily a "how does banding" thread, I never understood banding creatures with flying or trample. How would that work? They band up with a plain old vanilla walker, and then what...?
Bands are blocked as a group. If even one creature lacks flying, they can be blocked by a single non flyer.

Then trample damage is always assigned last. If the rest of the band dealt lethal damage to the blocker, then the trampler's would carry through to the opponent, as usual.
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Post by void_nothing » 2 years ago

Indefinite ability gainz is so bizarre.
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Post by tstorm823 » 2 years ago

I like banding, it is very good. As some may know, I have a whole deck based around the "bands with other legends" lands.

The reason to band is because you want to attack or block with something but you don't want it to die. Examples: Marton Stromgald has an incredible attack or block trigger, he's a mega-anthem. But he's also a 1/1 that has to attack or block to trigger. With banding, you can direct any combat damage that would hit him to a creature banded with him instead, and wouldn't you know it, that creature just got +5/+5 from Marton. Baron Sengir wants to damage and kill things. If your opponent has something big, that might not work out so great. Band it to Arvad the Cursed instead, deathtouch your opponent's big fatty, tap the Baron to regenerate it's buddy, get the kill trigger on Baron, and lose no creatures.

The creatures that were printed with banding are pretty universally trash because banding is really powerful, I'd argue the single most powerful combat keyword. The cards that can give anything banding can just auto-win you combat. Also, it's a hard counter to trample.

Edit: I forget my best analogy: a creature with banding at worst is like a combat only totem armor for everything in a band with it.
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Post by 3drinks » 2 years ago

tstorm823 wrote:
2 years ago
I like banding, it is very good. As some may know, I have a whole deck based around the "bands with other legends" lands.

The reason to band is because you want to attack or block with something but you don't want it to die. Examples: Marton Stromgald has an incredible attack or block trigger, he's a mega-anthem. But he's also a 1/1 that has to attack or block to trigger. With banding, you can direct any combat damage that would hit him to a creature banded with him instead, and wouldn't you know it, that creature just got +5/+5 from Marton. Baron Sengir wants to damage and kill things. If your opponent has something big, that might not work out so great. Band it to Arvad the Cursed instead, deathtouch your opponent's big fatty, tap the Baron to regenerate it's buddy, get the kill trigger on Baron, and lose no creatures.

The creatures that were printed with banding are pretty universally trash because banding is really powerful, I'd argue the single most powerful combat keyword. The cards that can give anything banding can just auto-win you combat. Also, it's a hard counter to trample.
100% this. Banding isn't broken because people "don't know what it does" - it's broken because it's a very powerful mechanic that allows one person to dictate combat.
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Post by Hermes_ » 2 years ago

*considers making a banding/horsemanship deck*
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Post by 3drinks » 2 years ago

Hermes_ wrote:
2 years ago
*considers making a banding/horsemanship deck*
Why both? They don't interact at all, in fact banding makes horsemanship worse.
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Post by Hermes_ » 2 years ago

3drinks wrote:
2 years ago
Hermes_ wrote:
2 years ago
*considers making a banding/horsemanship deck*
Why both? They don't interact at all, in fact banding makes horsemanship worse.
Cuz I like horsemanship and how no one expects it? I also may not fully understand how it makes it worse.... :shhh:
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Post by DirkGently » 2 years ago

Hermes_ wrote:
2 years ago
Cuz I like horsemanship and how no one expects it? I also may not fully understand how it makes it worse.... :shhh:
If you attack with a banding creature and a horsemanship creature "in a band" and they block the banding creature, then the horsemanship creature will deal its damage to the blocking creature instead of the player (thus not triggering Marisi) (I'm pretty sure) (screw banding it's dumb).
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Post by 3drinks » 2 years ago

Saturday, August 10th, 2019; Disrupt Decorum

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 2 years ago

Heh, what a nice segue of a card, given the Marisi discussion ;) seems like this would make for a solid game-ender in battlecruiser board stalls, forcing your foes to ram into each other and then having dibs on cleanup duty.

Check out this video deconstructing the artist responsible for the card if you haven't, by the way. I am not one to normally pay attention to art, but watching the guy deconstruct the composition and references in the painting is fascinating.

 
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Post by Myllior » 2 years ago

This would have been a sweet reprint for the Naya precon. While it's not necessarily on-theme for a populate deck (although it would help clear the way for Ghired, Conclave Exile to safely get his attack trigger), it'd be great in a Marisi, Breaker of the Coil thunderdome deck to keep the fun rolling :grin:

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Post by hyalopterouslemur » 2 years ago

Absolutely required for any Game of Thrones flavor deck. Sadly, the best pick for the Freys isn't red.
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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

I've heard good things about it, but haven't actually seen it in action. Keep meaning to try it out in Kess though. Goad is a sweet multiplayer mechanic, and this seems like it could crack a stalled board state wide open.

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Post by FoxOfWar » 2 years ago

I keep meaning to acquire a couple, for the couple of decks that might just need that one lategame open turn to end a game via the red zone. Also it's just a cool card.
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Post by 3drinks » 2 years ago

It's kinda like a red time walk when you break it down.
hyalopterouslemur wrote:
2 years ago
Absolutely required for any Game of Thrones flavor deck. Sadly, the best pick for the Freys isn't red.
Am I like the only one to not have seen GoT to not understand this idea?
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Post by 3drinks » 2 years ago

Sunday, August 11th, 2019; Desert Twister

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 2 years ago

A cute blast from the past, largely antiquated by removal power creep in green. Removal's the sort of thing where you don't typically spring for cute synergy, focusing on pure barebones utility, so this plays very deep backup to the Beast Withins of the world these days. Heck, at one more you get Scour from Existence.
 
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Post by 3drinks » 2 years ago

3drinks wrote:
2 years ago
Sunday, August 11th, 2019; Desert Twister

I'll be the one to say it;

Strictly outclassed by Scour From Existence.
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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Desert Twister is a card that, while somewhat unique (due to the whole 'color pie break' thing), has been outclassed over time. Beast Within is the obvious upgrade, but Scour from Existence and Spine of Ish Sah are both comparable - slightly more expensive, but a bit of additional utility (Scour exiles at instant speed, Spine can be recurred). After that, we get into Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger territory for colorless spot removal, with even more upside.

On the other hand, Iona, Shield of Emeria has been banned, so colorless creature removal isn't quite as necessary for monocolor decks anymore. I do think green has better creature removal options than Desert Twister though - fight spells such as Ulvenwald Tracker and Setessan Tactics are reasonable solutions, and colorless has options like Duplicant.

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Post by hyalopterouslemur » 2 years ago

3drinks wrote:
2 years ago
Am I like the only one to not have seen GoT to not understand this idea?
Red Wedding. The whole thing is a plot to kill Robb during the dinner.

The best Commander, though, for the Freys, the house that did the Red Wedding, is Ghave, Guru of Spores because no weapons, no pets, and a son for a son.

In the books, the groom, Robb's uncle, is later clearly experiencing PTSD, having been forced to consummate as his family's screams provide a charivari.

Anyway, Desert Twister used to be a card I'd seriously consider, but these days? Beast Within exists. Even Spine of Ish Sah and Scour from Existence come to mind first.
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Post by Cyberium » 2 years ago

A lot of people argued that green shouldn't have permanent removal and considered Desert Twister (and Beast Within) unfit for modern color pie. I disagree.

Just like black had Gate to Phyrexia and Phyrexian Tribute, and recently Mire in Misery, I believe each color is allowed to have any effect... as long as it doesn't exceed its characteristic strength and weakness (blue does its creature removal with "transformation" spells). Green traditionally don't destroy creatures, but it could be done with drawback such as high cc or like Beast Within creating creature token for opponents. That was the principal when WotC designs artifact/colorless spells akin to colored spells, they are more expensive because any color could use them. Desert Twister being high CC and at sorcery speed is acceptable for a color that's not suppose to kill creature well.

I actually prefer the Fight mechanic when it comes to green creature kill, but I don't mind seeing green with direct removal, so long as it's done flavorfully.

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Post by 3drinks » 2 years ago

Monday, August 12th, 2019; Wildfire Eternal

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Post by Mookie » 2 years ago

Wildfire Eternal's best-case scenario is pretty good - cast a free Enter the Infinite, Expropriate, or other nasty spell. The issue is that without haste, it can be difficult to actually get an attack off with it. Additionally, a 1/4 isn't a particularly good attacker, which means people can often just block. Afflict 4 is sort of like evasion, but it's not as meaningful when everyone starts with 40 life. And the fail case of not even having an instant or sorcery in hand to cast for free is pretty bad.

If I were to ignore the '1/4 body for 4 mana with no evasion' thing, I could see myself playing it in Kess, Dissident Mage - I'm running a lot of splashy spells (like Cruel Ultimatum and Blatant Thievery), alongside removal to keep the board clear. However, the inefficient body and lack of immediate impact makes me hesitant to do so.

Might be interesting alongside a commander like Chainer, Nightmare Adept or Samut, Voice of Dissent - a consistent source of haste seems like it would make the card much better. Those decks may not be playing enough big spells worth cheating out though.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 2 years ago

It's a great example of mid-10's design - you look at it, you appreciate the playful reverse application of the mechanic and its trade-off, you then immediately forget it and don't run it anywhere. The first four two-set blocks are swarming with this sort of stuff. From a purely EDH perspective, a 1/4's gonna have a bad time in combat. Same reason I don't share Gavin's enthusiasm for Scaretiller outside some tapadoodle shenanigan decks.
 
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