If you want to give commanders the middle finger, play Drannith Magistrate.
[mtgnexus] Random Card of the Day - Samwise the Stouthearted
Community Rules
‖ Commander Rules
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.
Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Emiel, The Blessed, Phelddagriff
Other: Ruhan, Zask, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada
Help me complete my JumpStart Cube!
Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Emiel, The Blessed, Phelddagriff
Other: Ruhan, Zask, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada
Help me complete my JumpStart Cube!
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folding_music glitter pen on my mana crypt
- Posts: 2236
- Joined: 4 years ago
- Pronoun: they / them
I love every old permanent which freezes creatures :3 Stasis and various Orbs are too punishing, but this one's about right, along with An-Zerrin Ruins, Smoke and Meekstone. and Paralyze ruled too! this is my fave, because a lot of recent legendaries are too good for their CMC, or have outrageous card quality effects or immediately aid in the player comboing out... I'd love to see more cards along these lines. like "screw famous people" effects lol
but so many commanders do not care about this effect and you have to time it well against stuff like Sisay or else they fetch Loran immediately. like the card is too good against casual decks and no good against people who just think about winning so it's more of a kick me sign
but so many commanders do not care about this effect and you have to time it well against stuff like Sisay or else they fetch Loran immediately. like the card is too good against casual decks and no good against people who just think about winning so it's more of a kick me sign
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TheAmericanSpirit Supreme Dumb Guy
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- Location: IGMCULSL Papal Palace
I wanna understand the flavor of this card. Are the legends all tuckered out from a track and field meet in the arena or are they all just sitting in the stands, bloating themselves with concessions?
There's no biscuits and gravy in New Zealand.
(Except when DirkGently makes them!)
(Except when DirkGently makes them!)
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3drinks Kaalia's Personal Liaison
- Posts: 4832
- Joined: 4 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
- Location: Ruined City of Drannith, Ikoria
"Yes."TheAmericanSpirit wrote: ↑1 year agoI wanna understand the flavor of this card. Are the legends all tuckered out from a track and field meet in the arena or are they all just sitting in the stands, bloating themselves with concessions?
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Modern
87guide Burn
87guide Burn
Commander
Kellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
Torbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
Alesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
Kaalia HQ
Kellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
Torbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
Alesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
Kaalia HQ
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void_nothing Look On My Sash...
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- Location: Tal Terig, Zendikar
Transported to the arena to have a much more exciting mass battle that happens offscreen.TheAmericanSpirit wrote: ↑1 year agoI wanna understand the flavor of this card. Are the legends all tuckered out from a track and field meet in the arena or are they all just sitting in the stands, bloating themselves with concessions?
Psst, check the second page of Custom Card Contests & Games! Because of the daily contests, a lot of games fall down to there.
The greatest (fake) pro wrestling on the internet - Collaborative Create-A-Booster - My random creations (updated regularly)
Important Facts: Colorless is not a color, Wastes is not a land type, Changeling is not a creature type
The greatest (fake) pro wrestling on the internet - Collaborative Create-A-Booster - My random creations (updated regularly)
Important Facts: Colorless is not a color, Wastes is not a land type, Changeling is not a creature type
Combos with Leyline of Singularity? Other than that, Arena of the Ancients seems pretty narrow. It's fine against certain voltron commanders that you don't want to attack, or legends with tap abilities, but there are a lot of commanders (and other legends) that just don't care about this. I'd lean towards Meekstone or some other hate effect instead.
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Hawk Slayer of Threads
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- Pronoun: he / him
- Location: Salt Lake City, UT
I didn't know Arena of the Ancients existed - or maybe I did and have since forgotten? Since I was curious, I wondered - how does this stack up against the top 25 commanders of the format these days?
Disables:
Lathril, Blade of the Elves (she's totally bricked! Too bad elves are pretty great at nuking up artifacts...)
Krenko, Mob Boss (totally bricked! Too bad red is pretty good at nuking artifacts too...)
Kaalia of the Vast (totally bricked!)
Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh (he's almost always getting suited up, so this shuts him up good)
Somewhat disables:
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice (is sad to not use her keyword soup to attack or block, but depends on deck a lot how much this sets her back)
Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow (is sad to not attack herself; her ninja army still draws a million cards and domes the table to death though)
Edgar Markov (could shut down Edgars' ability to help overrun you and close out the game...but most Edgar decks are killing you with Eddie himself still in the Command Zone)
Korvold, Fae-Cursed King (no more voltroning folks with Korvold and now you have to have another sac outlet to draw cards...but it's Korvold, you've gotta be running more ways to sac cards right?)
Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm (always sad to have your 6/6 fatty shut down, but the infinite dragon clone storm still works)
Go-Shintai of Life's Origin (no more reanimating their shrines, but they still get to make a bunch of shrine tokens which is the real threat)
Sakashima of a Thousand Faces (shuts down Sakashima if it shuts down his partner? But the Mirror Gallery is still live, so meh)
Esika, God of the Tree // The Prismatic Bridge (bricks the Esika side but not the Bridge side)
No effect!:
Tymna the Weaver (technically gives you one less creature with which to swing at all opponents, but for most Tymna decks this isn't a penalty)
Thrasios, Triton Hero (...he doesn't tap for that ability? So gross.)
The Ur-Dragon (people cast this card???)
Wilhelt, the Rotcleaver
Kenrith, the Returned King
Prosper, Tome-Bound
Isshin, Two Heavens as One
Omnath, Locus of Creation
Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Shorikai, Genesis Engine (unless you flash it in before combat or sucker punch your opponent when they use Shorikai as a blocker or something??? Oracle text on Arena specifics "Legendary Creatures", which Shorikai isn't most of the time you can cast Arena)
Chatterfang, Squirrel General
Arcades, the Strategist
Meren of Clan Nel Toth
So yeah, this card doesn't functionally do anything against half the top commanders in the format, and only fully crippled four of them. Card probably ain't worth it compared to Meekstone, Tangle Wire, or if you are in the right colors spells like Out of Time.
Disables:
Lathril, Blade of the Elves (she's totally bricked! Too bad elves are pretty great at nuking up artifacts...)
Krenko, Mob Boss (totally bricked! Too bad red is pretty good at nuking artifacts too...)
Kaalia of the Vast (totally bricked!)
Rograkh, Son of Rohgahh (he's almost always getting suited up, so this shuts him up good)
Somewhat disables:
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice (is sad to not use her keyword soup to attack or block, but depends on deck a lot how much this sets her back)
Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow (is sad to not attack herself; her ninja army still draws a million cards and domes the table to death though)
Edgar Markov (could shut down Edgars' ability to help overrun you and close out the game...but most Edgar decks are killing you with Eddie himself still in the Command Zone)
Korvold, Fae-Cursed King (no more voltroning folks with Korvold and now you have to have another sac outlet to draw cards...but it's Korvold, you've gotta be running more ways to sac cards right?)
Miirym, Sentinel Wyrm (always sad to have your 6/6 fatty shut down, but the infinite dragon clone storm still works)
Go-Shintai of Life's Origin (no more reanimating their shrines, but they still get to make a bunch of shrine tokens which is the real threat)
Sakashima of a Thousand Faces (shuts down Sakashima if it shuts down his partner? But the Mirror Gallery is still live, so meh)
Esika, God of the Tree // The Prismatic Bridge (bricks the Esika side but not the Bridge side)
No effect!:
Tymna the Weaver (technically gives you one less creature with which to swing at all opponents, but for most Tymna decks this isn't a penalty)
Thrasios, Triton Hero (...he doesn't tap for that ability? So gross.)
The Ur-Dragon (people cast this card???)
Wilhelt, the Rotcleaver
Kenrith, the Returned King
Prosper, Tome-Bound
Isshin, Two Heavens as One
Omnath, Locus of Creation
Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Shorikai, Genesis Engine (unless you flash it in before combat or sucker punch your opponent when they use Shorikai as a blocker or something??? Oracle text on Arena specifics "Legendary Creatures", which Shorikai isn't most of the time you can cast Arena)
Chatterfang, Squirrel General
Arcades, the Strategist
Meren of Clan Nel Toth
So yeah, this card doesn't functionally do anything against half the top commanders in the format, and only fully crippled four of them. Card probably ain't worth it compared to Meekstone, Tangle Wire, or if you are in the right colors spells like Out of Time.
Sufferer of EDHD
Commander: Current(ish) Arsenal
Daretti, Scrap Savant (Decklist) Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow Samut, Voice of Dissent The Gitrog Monster (Decklist)Quintorius, Field Historian
Volo, Guide to Monsters Sevinne, the Chronoclasm
----
Heliod, Sun-crowned Mirri the Cursed Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist Sygg, River Guide Jeska, Thrice Reborn // Falthis, Shadowcat Familair // Obosh the Preypiercer
Miara, Thorn of the Glade//Numa, Joraga Chieftain Arcades, the Strategist Phelddagrif Varina, Lich Queen
Daretti, Scrap Savant (Decklist) Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow Samut, Voice of Dissent The Gitrog Monster (Decklist)Quintorius, Field Historian
Volo, Guide to Monsters Sevinne, the Chronoclasm
----
Heliod, Sun-crowned Mirri the Cursed Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist Sygg, River Guide Jeska, Thrice Reborn // Falthis, Shadowcat Familair // Obosh the Preypiercer
Miara, Thorn of the Glade//Numa, Joraga Chieftain Arcades, the Strategist Phelddagrif Varina, Lich Queen
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DirkGently My wins are unconditional
- Posts: 4540
- Joined: 4 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
I think this used to be more impactful than it is now. @Hawk demonstrates why it's not a great card at this point, but back in the Uril, the Miststalker days it was more exciting. I don't really think comparing it to Drannith Magistrate is fair, though, that's like comparing a counterspell to a removal spell. The fact that this works regardless of when you draw it is a pretty big difference.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
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3drinks Kaalia's Personal Liaison
- Posts: 4832
- Joined: 4 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
- Location: Ruined City of Drannith, Ikoria
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Modern
87guide Burn
87guide Burn
Commander
Kellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
Torbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
Alesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
Kaalia HQ
Kellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
Torbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
Alesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
Kaalia HQ
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DirkGently My wins are unconditional
- Posts: 4540
- Joined: 4 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
I still like it. instant speed 3 mana to remove any nonland permanent including indestructible without death triggers is solid. And sometimes it's worth using on your own stuff in a pinch. Draw 2 is definitely a harsher downside than Generous Gift, but redundancy is good, and you can potentially KO someone doing Thassa's Oracle BS.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
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3drinks Kaalia's Personal Liaison
- Posts: 4832
- Joined: 4 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
- Location: Ruined City of Drannith, Ikoria
I've played a lot of Forsake the Worldly and generally been happy with it. This is probably a reasonable swap for the slot.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Modern
87guide Burn
87guide Burn
Commander
Kellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
Torbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
Alesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
Kaalia HQ
Kellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
Torbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
Alesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
Kaalia HQ
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folding_music glitter pen on my mana crypt
- Posts: 2236
- Joined: 4 years ago
- Pronoun: they / them
I remember, um, dispatching a Guiltfeeder with one of these at a pre-release. fast ffwd to present day and that's still the only time I've played the card giggle
I have been playing a lot of Oblation again in my Breena, the Demagogue deck, where I am not *that* concerned with people drawing cards (Since I'm encouraging it). I see indestructible as a really serious problem these days, so I like things that beat it. There's an awful lot of Hammer of Nazahn type junk. And also, non-creatures are constantly getting more and more oppresively powerful.
I feel like it's right at the border of too expensive for the effect, but every time I play it it's good. I often oblation my own cards in response to sweepers too which is nice. An instant speed divination is a nice failure mode.
It's really nice to put things back in people's libraries instead of in the graveyard too.
It's an oldie and a goodie, and I am glad to have the effect.
I feel like it's right at the border of too expensive for the effect, but every time I play it it's good. I often oblation my own cards in response to sweepers too which is nice. An instant speed divination is a nice failure mode.
It's really nice to put things back in people's libraries instead of in the graveyard too.
It's an oldie and a goodie, and I am glad to have the effect.
I'm currently low on Oblation. The base effect is roughly comparable to Generous Gift, since it misses lands but can deal with indestructible things. However, the downside is harsher - drawing two cards is usually more dangerous than a 3/3 token. It may have some niche use cases if you intend to occasionally hit your own stuff for card draw (turning it into a janky Village Rites), but white has other options for card draw these days.
...I think Oblation used to be a reasonable inclusion, but there are a ton of flexible removal spells available these days. Generous Gift, Skyclave Apparition, Cavalier of Dawn, Heliod's Intervention, Vanish into Eternity... I suppose that like Arcane Denial, the downside of giving an opponent cards is a bit less harsh in multiplayer, and it does work well if you happen to be running Smothering Tithe or some other way to punish card draw, but I think it has generally been power crept out of the format.
...I think Oblation used to be a reasonable inclusion, but there are a ton of flexible removal spells available these days. Generous Gift, Skyclave Apparition, Cavalier of Dawn, Heliod's Intervention, Vanish into Eternity... I suppose that like Arcane Denial, the downside of giving an opponent cards is a bit less harsh in multiplayer, and it does work well if you happen to be running Smothering Tithe or some other way to punish card draw, but I think it has generally been power crept out of the format.
Spin a thing back in the deck AND get two tokens off of Smothering Tithe for the disrespect since you're playing white. What's not to love?
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DirkGently My wins are unconditional
- Posts: 4540
- Joined: 4 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
Generous gift is the only of those cards that I'd always run over oblation. Cavalier and skyclave are both sorcery speed and therefore much weaker. Heliods is much more type restricted. Vanish costs a ton to target the most common target type.Mookie wrote: ↑1 year agoGenerous Gift, Skyclave Apparition, Cavalier of Dawn, Heliod's Intervention, Vanish into Eternity
Unexpectedly Absent is the other great flexible-type mono-white removal spell. I'd usually pick that over oblation. I think oblation is still #3 atm. #5 in white removal overall behind stp and pte.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I think it's very situational whether Oblation is better than Generous Gift and Unexpectedly Absent is still #1 for me. But I think it's all arguable.DirkGently wrote: ↑1 year agoUnexpectedly Absent is the other great flexible-type mono-white removal spell. I'd usually pick that over oblation. I think oblation is still #3 atm. #5 in white removal overall behind stp and pte.
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TheGildedGoose HONK HONK
- Posts: 1473
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I think it sucks and is only good against bad decks which you were likely going to beat anyway. Obviously you only use it at the last second, but if your opponent isn't drawing into something relevant with those two cards, they're inconsequential for the game regardless. At least Arcane Denial is cheap, easy to cast, and cantrips.
Notably, Arcane Denial is blue (hence not quite) and also doesn't remove things already on the board. It can, hilariously, be used on your own stuff though
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DirkGently My wins are unconditional
- Posts: 4540
- Joined: 4 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
There's a big difference between "relevant" and "ends the game". No, you don't want to oblation some random Oracle of Mul Daya on turn 4, but if you're using it to disrupt a combo, remove a lethal attacker, or blow up something giga-dangerous, giving them 2 possibly-relevant cards is a pretty reasonable trade.TheGildedGoose wrote: ↑1 year agoI think it sucks and is only good against bad decks which you were likely going to beat anyway. Obviously you only use it at the last second, but if your opponent isn't drawing into something relevant with those two cards, they're inconsequential for the game regardless. At least Arcane Denial is cheap, easy to cast, and cantrips.
It does depend a bit on how lopsided the game is. If it's full archenemy against the target, then giving them 2 cards could be fairly bad since those 2 cards are actually worth 2 full-ish cards against you. If it's a reasonably balanced game, then it's a pretty minor downside, and they're worth less than a card (2 cards divided by 3 opponents = 2/3 of a card worth of downside - better than you get from a FoW).
Arcane denial is extremely good. Probably second best counterspell in regular commander behind mana drain. Goes down a bit in rank in high-powered metas as tempo rules and FoW and friends become more valuable, but still very good.
Perm Decks
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Phelddagrif - Kaervek - Golos - Zirilan
Flux Decks
Gollum - Lobelia - Minthara - Plargg2 - Solphim - Otharri - Graaz - Ratchet - Soundwave - Slicer - Gale - Rootha - Kagemaro - Blorpityblorpboop - Kayla - SliverQueen - Ivy - Falco - Gluntch - Charlatan/Wilson - Garth - Kros - Anthousa - Shigeki - Light-Paws - Lukka - Sefris - Ebondeath - Rokiric - Garth - Nixilis - Grist - Mavinda - Kumano - Nezahal - Mavinda - Plargg - Plargg - Extus - Plargg - Oracle - Kardur - Halvar - Tergrid - Egon - Cosima - Halana+Livio - Jeska+Falthis+Obosh - Yeva - Akiri+Zirda - Lady Sun - Nahiri - Korlash - Overlord+Zirda - Chisei - Athreos2 - Akim - Cazur+Ukkima - Otrimi - Otrimi - Kalamax - Ayli+Lurrus - Clamilton - Gonti - Heliod2 - Ayula - Thassa2 - Gallia - Purphoros2 - Rankle - Uro - Rayami - Gargos - Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa - Ashling1 - Angus - Arcum - Talrand - Chainer - Higure - Kumano - Scion - Teferi1 - Uyo - Sisters
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote
Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena
Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I'll get up on my soap box and say people seriously underestimate the value in counterspelling creatures (and non-instant/sorceries) in CEDH and Arcane Denial is severely underplayed in competitive to this day. There are a number of decks that can win purely through creature combo (heliod-ballista, hermit druid, some oracle combos).DirkGently wrote: ↑1 year agoArcane denial is extremely good. Probably second best counterspell in regular commander behind mana drain. Goes down a bit in rank in high-powered metas as tempo rules and FoW and friends become more valuable, but still very good.
/tangent
Idk, if I wanted to play a 2MV counter in cEDH there are a number of counters I'd pick before arcane denial.pokken wrote: ↑1 year agoI'll get up on my soap box and say people seriously underestimate the value in counterspelling creatures (and non-instant/sorceries) in CEDH and Arcane Denial is severely underplayed in competitive to this day. There are a number of decks that can win purely through creature combo (heliod-ballista, hermit druid, some oracle combos).DirkGently wrote: ↑1 year agoArcane denial is extremely good. Probably second best counterspell in regular commander behind mana drain. Goes down a bit in rank in high-powered metas as tempo rules and FoW and friends become more valuable, but still very good.
/tangent
All cards are bad if you try hard enough.
Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Emiel, The Blessed, Phelddagriff
Other: Ruhan, Zask, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada
Help me complete my JumpStart Cube!
Important decks: Ebondeath, Dracolich, Emiel, The Blessed, Phelddagriff
Other: Ruhan, Zask, Kellan, Liesa, Galadriel, Orca, Sauron, Thantis, Rukarumel, Sisay, Stickfingers, Safana, Thantis, Dihada
Help me complete my JumpStart Cube!
Yar, most people aren't even running mana drain these days because they're all on greedy 4c stuff.
And then they get rolled by Winota, Joiner of Forces spoilers lol. Or Heliod, Sun-Crowned Ballista.
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3drinks Kaalia's Personal Liaison
- Posts: 4832
- Joined: 4 years ago
- Pronoun: he / him
- Location: Ruined City of Drannith, Ikoria
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Modern
87guide Burn
87guide Burn
Commander
Kellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
Torbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
Alesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
Kaalia HQ
Kellan, the Fae-Blooded // Birthright Boon (local secret santa gift)
Torbran, Thane of Red Fell (Red Deck Wins)
Alesha, Who Smiles at Death (Slivers)
Kaalia HQ
It's hilariously like the order of colors back in 2010 represented in card cycle form.
Green, Blue/Black, White/Red
If they did it nowadays it'd be
Green, Blue/Red, Black/White!
Green, Blue/Black, White/Red
If they did it nowadays it'd be
Green, Blue/Red, Black/White!