[mtgnexus] Random Card of the Day - Leonin Shikari

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Post by materpillar » 1 year ago

3drinks wrote:
1 year ago
Wdnesday, November 30th, 2022; Angelic Ascension



I'd play this. Odds are the 4/4 angel is worth a helluva lot less than whatever it is you're hitting.
The boys I play with are on the slower side. Giving someone a 4/4 Angel is asking to take 8-12 damage to the face. That's a pretty huge downside in a combat focused metagame. I wouldn't play this unless there's a ton of planeswalkers running rampant. I think it'd rather give someone a land with Path to Exile.

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 year ago

Eh, I prefer Contraband Livestock for the goofy art and the less certain 4/4.
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Post by 3drinks » 1 year ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 year ago
Eh, I prefer Contraband Livestock for the goofy art and the less certain 4/4.
Oh man, I wish this were on modo so much 😂😂.

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Post by Mookie » 1 year ago

I'm pretty low on Angelic Ascension - white has a lot of removal options, and a 4/4 flyer is a pretty significant body. Hitting planeswalkers is a relevant upside, but I'd lean towards Generous Gift if that were something I cared about.

...I think the more interesting use case is hitting your own creatures with this to upgrade them. I don't quite believe that turning a 1/1 token into a 4/4 flyer is worth a card, but could be worth consideration if you have Anointed Procession or another doubling effect.

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Post by PrimevalCommander » 1 year ago

TheAmericanSpirit wrote:
1 year ago
Eh, I prefer Contraband Livestock for the goofy art and the less certain 4/4.
I like this better too. Actually a really great removal spell when you look at it close. Downside is the need of a D20, but I play it in Sefris dungeons with several other cards that require a D20.

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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

Surprised @3drinks is the one downplaying the value of a vanilla beater.

It's honestly not a bad removal spell, but as others have said, being in white means the competition is fierce. I could see playing it in a token deck that sometimes wants to hit its own creatures (like maybe Soundwave, Sonic Spy // Soundwave, Superior Champion tbh) but otherwise it probably doesn't make the cut. I'd consider it in Phelddagrif if it was a 3/4, but being big enough to trade with Phelddagrif makes it a lot less interesting.
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Post by onering » 1 year ago

Its pretty bad, because mono white just has enough better options. Either better in terms of both cost and what their drawback is, or better in terms of flexibility and what the drawback is. Contraband Livestock, mentioned already, is good not great, and that's because the drawback is likely to be pretty meh. This, on the other hand, guarantees your opponent a more relevant creature than even a 1-9 on Livestock, with the only upside being that it can hit PWs. Given the relative scarcity of PWs, the guarantee of a 4/4 flyer makes this just OK at best, and if my meta has enough walkers for the flexibility to be more relevant then there are other cards I'd rather run to deal with that.

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Post by Toshi » 1 year ago

3drinks wrote:
1 year ago
Sifting through the comments, as someone with a mono- primer, i'm baffled how many are sleeping on this one.
Sure, in a strictly casual pod, handing out 4/4 flyers is a recipe for desaster, but the higher you go up the ranks, the better it gets, as blatantly punching people gets less scary.
Also, i wouldn't co-sign the notion of white having "so many better options" for creature removal, actually.
Sure, you got Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile - and Contraband Livestock is better, but other options are less reliable (Dispatch), cost more mana (Generous Gift), are more situational (Valorous Stance) and don't exile (Fateful Absence).
Overall Angelic Ascension is among the top 5 instant speed creature removals for me, below the 3 mentioned before and in the ball park of Unexpectedly Absent.

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Post by onering » 1 year ago

Disagree. It might be top 5 when you limit yourself to instant speed removal (and Generous Gift is better because it's versatility is worth the extra mana). While instant speed is important, being able to deal with problem commanders is often more important, and white had things like Darksteel Mutation that are better than this.

Really only at the cEDH level would this start to take precedence because the cheaper cost and instant speed compared to the alternatives matters the most there, and the angel it gives them matters the least there. But then only if you're in mono white.

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Post by NZB2323 » 1 year ago

Toshi wrote:
1 year ago
3drinks wrote:
1 year ago
Sifting through the comments, as someone with a mono- primer, i'm baffled how many are sleeping on this one.
Sure, in a strictly casual pod, handing out 4/4 flyers is a recipe for desaster, but the higher you go up the ranks, the better it gets, as blatantly punching people gets less scary.
Also, i wouldn't co-sign the notion of white having "so many better options" for creature removal, actually.
Sure, you got Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile - and Contraband Livestock is better, but other options are less reliable (Dispatch), cost more mana (Generous Gift), are more situational (Valorous Stance) and don't exile (Fateful Absence).
Overall Angelic Ascension is among the top 5 instant speed creature removals for me, below the 3 mentioned before and in the ball park of Unexpectedly Absent.
I think the vast majority of people would favor Generous Gift over it with the ability to hit anything and giving the opponent a 3/3 over a 4/4 flyer. I also prefer Fateful Absence as I'd rather give the opponent a clue over a 4/4 flyer and most of the time exiling is not relevant.

Darksteel Mutation I'd also rank ahead of AA, as it can shut down commanders, most of the time hitting a PW isn't relevant, and you don't have to give anyone a 4/4 flyer.

Winds of Abandon I also think is better. It's not instant speed, but it can either be spot removal or a one sided board wipe.

I guess for cEDH AA might be better, but why would you play mono white for cEDH? And if you're not playing mono white it has more cards that it competes with.
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Post by Toshi » 1 year ago

onering wrote:
1 year ago
It might be top 5 when you limit yourself to instant speed removal.

Really only at the cEDH level would this start to take precedence because the cheaper cost and instant speed compared to the alternatives matters the most there, and the angel it gives them matters the least there.

But then only if you're in mono white.
Which is exactly what i did, for the sake of the discussion.

I wouldn't agree with that. Instant speed and mana value are at the top of the criteria. Instant speed is barely worth anything, if you're paying 4+ mana for it - hot take: Return to Dust is outdated in above average pods - and sorcery speed removal has been mostly bad, unless you're able to abuse it.

I haven't seen any argument outside of mono white.
NZB2323 wrote:
1 year ago
I think the vast majority of people would favor Generous Gift over it with the ability to hit anything and giving the opponent a 3/3 over a 4/4 flyer. I also prefer Fateful Absence as I'd rather give the opponent a clue over a 4/4 flyer and most of the time exiling is not relevant.

I guess for cEDH AA might be better, but why would you play mono white for cEDH?
Generous Gift and Darksteel Mutation are the obvious outliers to my argument. As for Generous Gift, holding up 3 mana instead of 2 is a significant difference, despite it being a great card - also opening up the discussion to 3 mana options as well would've made it a lot more lengthy. Truth be told, i'm running GG and AA in my combo deck.
I wouldn't necessarily discuss Darksteel Mutation in comparison to removals but Treachery et al. And again, sorcery speed.

The fact that "most of the time exiling is not relevant" in your meta means it looks a lot different than mine. Even when pairing with our less powerful decks, recursion, indestructibility and the likes will be important in most, if not all, games.

And why not play white in cEDH? Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle, Sram, Senior Edificer, Heliod, Sun-Crowned, Oswald Fiddlebender, ... there are plenty of cool options and it's such a refreshing experience compared to overabundant color combinations and commanders.
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Post by Serenade » 1 year ago

Is newcomer Soul Partition a better choice in cEDH? Not sure if bounce/tax makes that much difference.

I have not played AA. I do find it interesting to contrast to Baleful Mastery, my top black spot removal spell. Exile is pretty great!
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Post by NZB2323 » 1 year ago

Toshi wrote:
1 year ago
onering wrote:
1 year ago
It might be top 5 when you limit yourself to instant speed removal.

Really only at the cEDH level would this start to take precedence because the cheaper cost and instant speed compared to the alternatives matters the most there, and the angel it gives them matters the least there.

But then only if you're in mono white.
Which is exactly what i did, for the sake of the discussion.

I wouldn't agree with that. Instant speed and mana value are at the top of the criteria. Instant speed is barely worth anything, if you're paying 4+ mana for it - hot take: Return to Dust is outdated in above average pods - and sorcery speed removal has been mostly bad, unless you're able to abuse it.

I haven't seen any argument outside of mono white.
NZB2323 wrote:
1 year ago
I think the vast majority of people would favor Generous Gift over it with the ability to hit anything and giving the opponent a 3/3 over a 4/4 flyer. I also prefer Fateful Absence as I'd rather give the opponent a clue over a 4/4 flyer and most of the time exiling is not relevant.

I guess for cEDH AA might be better, but why would you play mono white for cEDH?
Generous Gift and Darksteel Mutation are the obvious outliers to my argument. As for Generous Gift, holding up 3 mana instead of 2 is a significant difference, despite it being a great card - also opening up the discussion to 3 mana options as well would've made it a lot more lengthy. Truth be told, i'm running GG and AA in my combo deck.
I wouldn't necessarily discuss Darksteel Mutation in comparison to removals but Treachery et al. And again, sorcery speed.

The fact that "most of the time exiling is not relevant" in your meta means it looks a lot different than mine. Even when pairing with our less powerful decks, recursion, indestructibility and the likes will be important in most, if not all, games.

And why not play white in cEDH? Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle, Sram, Senior Edificer, Heliod, Sun-Crowned, Oswald Fiddlebender, ... there are plenty of cool options and it's such a refreshing experience compared to overabundant color combinations and commanders.
I might interest you in my Primer for Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle, which you can find in my signature below.
I'm not really interested in playing cEDH, so you'd know this better than me, but if you're playing Teshar wouldn't you want cards like Skyclave Apparition, Fiend Hunter, and Banisher Priest? And would Sram want cards like Darksteel Mutation?

And wouldn't both decks prefer Dispatch, along with Oswald?
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Post by Toshi » 1 year ago

NZB2323 wrote:
1 year ago
if you're playing Teshar wouldn't you want cards like Skyclave Apparition, Fiend Hunter, and Banisher Priest?

And wouldn't both decks prefer Dispatch, along with Oswald?
The shortened answer is;

Yes, but not instead of, but in addition to instant speed removal.
Leonin Relic-Warder, Fiend Hunter and Skyclave Apparition over Banisher Priest and Fairgrounds Warden as their triggers are separate and can be abused with instant speed sac outlets.
Overall i'd rather run more loop enablers over them, if only they were available.
I found Dispatch to be too unreliable - especially in the early turns. Oswald Fiddlebender comes with the big hinderance of summoning sickness and cheating the artifact in play, while Teshar, Ancestor's Apostle wants to cast artifacts instead.

But that's too big of a discussion for RCotD overall.

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Post by 3drinks » 1 year ago

Thursday, December 1st, 2022; Jorn, God of Winter // Kaldring, the Rimestaff


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Post by Lifeless » 1 year ago

I love Jorn - he was one of only a few cards I picked up from this set. Unfortunately as I started to put a deck together for him I realized his version of incremental advantage wasn't really going to cut it in my group. At any rate the staff side is the real moneymaker here.

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Post by TheAmericanSpirit » 1 year ago

I hate snow (both IRL and in Magic), I hate the cold, and I hate winter generally. It follows that Jorn is among the class of commanders I wouldn't ever even consider playing.
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Post by DirkGently » 1 year ago

image.png
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Post by void_nothing » 1 year ago

DirkGently wrote:
1 year ago
image.png

I refuse to believe this is a coincidence.
I also see the resemblance. Now if Roland, God of Shredding or Allen, God of Pipes were Kaldheim gods...
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Post by Sinis » 1 year ago

Jorn is okay. I found the best way to build him was just as a mana doubler in the command zone. I tried playing the clone game where you can have Jorn and the staff out at the same time (Play Staff, copy Staff, Legend Rule original to graveyard, use Staff-copy to resurrect Jorn) but it was just slow and awkward. Eventually, the deck sort of morphed into playing Jorn as Jorn early during the development phases of the game, but once I had reached some critical mass of lands, it was more valuable to bring back some of the snow creatures (like Draugr Necromancer) or other wincons (like Dark Depths/Marit Lage's Slumber).

I like the Kaldheim Gods in general, but I think I have a bias there.

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Post by onering » 1 year ago

A solid, flexible leader for a snow deck, if your in the market for a snow deck. Both sides are relevant, Jorn side is cheap and untaps everything, while the staff is repeatable recursion. There's enough snow support in the colors to create a fun casual deck, and Jorn brings enough to the table on his own to smooth out the inconsistency that naturally arises from the limited number of snow cards

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Post by Gentle Giant » 1 year ago

Alternatively, you can be a tasteful connoisseur of bare chested beefcakes and let Jorn helm a deck focused on organizing feats of strength featuring burly men and lots of oil/mud-wrestling (i.e. fight effects) and bad-taste innuendos while Jorn and his 'staff' watch it all happen.
I mean, alternatively, no clue who would make such a deck.. *coughs*
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

I made a jorn deck that was for trash magic, by just piling all the snow cards and lands in a deck. It *dominated* trash magic. Way too strong.


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Post by 3drinks » 1 year ago

Friday, December 2nd, 2022; Marshal's Anthem


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