Feather, the Redeemed - Weaponised Jankmas Incarnate

gunar
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Post by gunar » 1 year ago

I've been running alot more of the "feel bad" and greedy cards than you do (like your endless debate on reckless rage). I think my choices also make me a bigger threat and target on the board. You are probly correct in that being a bad thing, since it just makes you a bigger target. I'm also running a whole lot more removal...again making me more of a target.

I've been running favored hoplite and phanlanx leader as my only heroics. I had akroan crusader and vanguard of brimaz in, but found I always had something I would rather target. Zada, Mirrorwing, phalanx, feather....BUT with the alter in there tokens become more important. I'm going to swap those and see what happens. Also, phalanx + monastery mentor are insanely powerful but also a nightmare to keep track of, especially on paper. "Ok, I have 3 5/5 monks, 2 4/4 monks, 5 2/2 monks...."

I've been running seimic shift. As a format in general, I feel like we need to have more land destruction, so I try to have some option in all my decks. I'm not trying to lock someone out of the game, but I feel someone should be countering the gaia's cradles and mazes of Iths. I see mangara as my replacement for this...one less mana, more versatility, tho the "can't use it first turn" is worrisome. Of note is its one of the few things that can counter gods, which I do see often these days.

As for the library....ive been playing online with a webcam lately. I played 4 games yesterday, and two of them had a Nekusar. I feel feather's biggest weakness is your hand. Its almost impossible to kill her, but if they kill your spells (discard, wheels, smart countermagic) you are in trouble.

Good point about the untappers...maybe I'll try veteran's reflex's instead. keeps some pump, less mana.

I'm gonna try heliod's. I just see it as a good removal/wipe. Its possible to repeat it once with solemn, but pretty unlikely. Its possible to get a 3rd use but the effort for that would be intense and not worth it. So you arn't locking down the game in any way.

The one "feel bad" card that I will whole-heartedly fight for is intimidation bolt. Lots of matchs I'm in, there's a "timmy" player that just goes off. Kaalia who has 40 power on the board on turn 5, all indestructible and doing double damage. Azusa/ Selvala with 200 trample damage turn 6. Intimidation bold punishes them for it, often they have zero way to respond. And in this scenario, it actually draws less hate, because the other two players see them as the threat, you as their hero.

Bathe in light: a protection spell I don't see in your write-up. Mimics team protection if zada/mirror isnt out.

reverberate, wild ricochet: I'm a tricksy blue mage at heart, so I love these cards. But I'm not 100% sure they work well in the deck. They are both amazing sunforger targets, but its hard to have the mana up for them. Once I did wild ricochet an extra turn spell, which felt SO good. Again, they arn't in your deck and your deck is probly better for it, they are just my 'pet' cards.

Looking at your past commentary, we've had the exact same thoughts on insta-flicker. "one is ok, cloudshift. Ok, ephemerate is better, but I don't need two. cloudshift is out. Hm, these ETB effects are good, maybe it goes back in." dockside extortionist definately changes this card....the ability to spend 1 mana to get 10 at instant speed is nuts.

Some other random questions:
I run boros charm but never seem to have the right scenario for it. People seem to love it but it hasn't done much work for me.

I know sol ring is 'the best card in commander' but I've never run it in feather. I'm worried about getting it in a opening hand and not having the mana I need to play/protect feather. This deck is so mana-intensive and needs so much of it to be colored. Currently my only colorless sources are rel tower, thought vessel, and sorta ash barrens.

I applied some of your ideas, here's my new list. The maybeboard is all things I tried or considered. The sideboard is stuff I'd like to work in. I probably should cut my pet cards (reverberate, wild ricochet, balefire, arcobatic maneuver) for your ramp and and lower cmc things.

https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/steel-f ... 1588081115

(also, I play paper and am not rich so stoneforge mystic, sword of feast and famine, fetch lands, mox diamond, imperial recruiter, and some of the other duals are sadly out of my budget)

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Feather gets pretty mana hungry later in the game; the main thing I've used sol ring for is to set up Zada/Mirrorwing turns, or to tap for Unwinding clock. The other thing it does is enable sol ring->signet draws which you almost can't lose with---and in general accelerating into other acceleration.

Crypt/Sol ring are vital in my opinion; for every game they hork your opener they'll provide 5 busted starts no one can catch up with.

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Post by Crazy Monkey » 1 year ago

On the topic of Desperate Stand, it opens the full potential of Zada/mirrorwing comboed with Seize the Day. Vigilance let's you use all those combat steps, so it is a potent finisher.

I slotted Heliod's Intervention into my version along with Heliod, God of the Sun and Hero of the Nyxborn. Those give me more targets and the ability to buyback removal. Probably not the most powerful, but added some repeated instant speed removal.

Sadly, I am the most frequent equipment player in my group, so I had to drop Magnetic Theft. Sunforger is my only equipment though.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | Lavinia | Silumgar | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Kydele & Thrasios | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Gisela | Feather | Osgir | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Vial & Ravos | Marchesa | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Genju | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Golos | Horde | Najeela | Traxos

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Rumpy5897
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

A load of interesting stuff being brought up.
  • Reckless Rage is 100% correct to run in a Feather deck, and it's incorrect of me to not be doing so.
  • I'm still not fully following the wheel angle, but that might be because I ramp like crazy and have the mana to hide a couple important things in exile in response. That said, I do agree that attacking the spells is important in combatting Feather. This opens up various avenues to mind games, like pointing the Heal at a token so people feel bad trying to take it out with removal for another layer of safety. There's not a ton that can be done against counterspells. The cleanest solution that comes to mind is Grand Abolisher and shifting a lot of attention to the two instant rotations in our own turn. That said, a counter-dense deck can just keep us off Feather to kneecap the process more effectively.
  • As just mentioned, ramp is important. Sol Ring remains a responsible include as it helps power out plays that aren't recyclable instants.
  • Stuff like Seismic Shift and Seize the Day have their use cases, but also have brick potential. It has to be a hell of a land to dedicate four mana to take it out. The extra combat could be nice in a more voltron focused take, where pump is plentiful. The Zada wombo with the latter is cute, but a little "what if" for my linear caveman brain. There are two types of Magic players - those that shoehorn Chance for Glory into their Sundial of the Infinite-containing decks, and those that don't :P The forks also live in this category, due to their mana requirements and variable returns.
  • If going for repeatable Heliod's Intervention, I'd actually consider Purphoros, God of the Forge first. Combine with token making and you've got yourself an indestructible Guttersnipe of sorts. I'm not running it because it scales a little wonkily, while other options cover this ground in a more consistent fashion. Still, a perfectly okay include in "what if" town.
  • Intimidation Bolt is a potent survival option, and I think the main reason I've left it out is that my group dislikes repeatable fogging. That, and the perspective of a three-mana reactive spell is a little spooky. I should probably give it a try.
  • Team-wide colour protection is not that impressive actually. It does nothing against non-damage wipes, maybe sometimes you can use it to absorb some attackers or sneak past some blockers. Plus Bathe in Light costs two.
  • Team-wide indestructible tends to catch more stuff. That, and Boros Charm also protects non-creatures, which are a known weak point in trying to transition from crazy draw to a game win. The repeatable use case of double strike is reasonable. That said, I can imagine a world with it being cut.
  • Don't worry too much about the missing money stuff. The deck's core is a never-ending flow of mana and repeatable spells, the expensive options help accelerate proceedings or grant extra consistency. You'll still be fine, and I like your idea to sub in Open the Armory as an adaptation to these conditions.
 
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

As good as purphoros is I don't think it's easy to keep it online consistently enough for intervention. I don't know that I have ever turned Purph into a creature lol :)

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Post by Crazy Monkey » 1 year ago

In my case, I looked at all the theros gods to enable Heliod's Intervention, and ended up with Heliod, God of the Sun because I have more devotion to white in my permanents and at the worst case the tokens can be generated as targets. I set Purphoros, God of the Forge aside, then realized that I needed nearly every red creature in my deck in play to enable it. I also don't play as much of a blink deck, so Purphoros wasn't great for me.

There are some alternate options for tokens to enable recurring Intervention. I remember looking at Doomed Artisan and Loyal Apprentice for this purpose. I personally went with Hero of the Nyxborn because it pulls backup duty via team-wide pump for finishing people off.

Rumpy5897, I dropped the Seize the Day + Desperate Stand due to the difficulty of setting it up (as you noted). However, as Desperate Stand is the only repeatable vigilance source for Feather, I wanted to mention it.

I personally use both Intimidation Bolt and Aurelia's Fury as repeatable preemptive control. I primarily use them as political tools to give disincentive to target me. I've also saved the table somewhat frequently by silencing the storm player during his upkeep, and it protects my primary win conditions (buffed commander damage or Arcbond + Martyrdom) from counterspells/removal. However, I believe that my build/playstyle is much more reactive focus so these cards doesn't make sense for everyone.

EDIT: On the topic of wheels/discard, at least in my group it has not been an issue to save key cards by casting them in response. Though it can telegraph a win condition if I cast arcbond to avoid losing it to discard.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | Lavinia | Silumgar | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Kydele & Thrasios | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Gisela | Feather | Osgir | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Vial & Ravos | Marchesa | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Genju | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Golos | Horde | Najeela | Traxos

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

Devotion is actually a fair thing to keep in mind for the gods, come to think of it. In my case, red leads 12:9, but Feather does bring an extra white pip so there's that too. I just can't get excited by Heliod in here though. I guess the vigilance is cute, but four mana for the privilege? And then four mana for a 2/1? Given the fact the deck usually has the power to draw a card or do something else relatively impactful for one mana, two tops, a lot of these higher cost things, even responsible-looking ones like Aurelia's Fury and Orim's Thunder, just fell out from early versions of the deck. Since they'd just sit in hand, I may as well devote the slot to something that will be live a higher percentage of the time. That said, my reluctance to spam removal got Reckless Rage outed, so the correct approach likely sits somewhere in the middle.

Of the options you mentioned, I probably like Loyal Apprentice the most as it creates free sky gum and comes down for two mana, which is nice for sequencing. By the way, thanks for posting your Feather. I remember checking it out around the time the thread went up, you're doing things a lot differently to me. Probably have more varied games with it.
 
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

I would be more inclined toward new Heliod I think than anything. Certainly anything other than Purph, though I think with feather being 2 pips it's a lot easier to turn heliod on, and new heliod is WAY better than old heliod.

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Post by Crazy Monkey » 1 year ago

Heliod, Sun-Crowned is more mana efficient and can definitely enable some faster voltron kills if lifegain is frequent. I don't have that many lifegain sources outside of something like Arcbond + Mortal's Ardor, so the option to make tokens was more likely to have a payout in my case. If I was running Guttersnipe, then the potential payout with lifelink cards would probably rebalance towards sun-crowned as the better option for me. EDIT: I guess I could just run both, maybe I should drop a lifelink instant for Sun-crowned.

I do frequently use Divergent Transformations to polymorph my tokens into creatures so the token has extra potential value for me. It also enabled me to re-add Seize the Day after my aforementioned prior cuts.

RE: higher cost or x removal options, my mana ramp is primarily cost reduction, which makes these much more viable as repeatable options in a single turn cycle. Honestly, I should test Orim's Thunder.

@Rumpy5897, thanks for mentioning my build, it's a good reminder that I should probably update the list that I have posted. It's almost certainly both more variable and slower than your own.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | Lavinia | Silumgar | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Kydele & Thrasios | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Gisela | Feather | Osgir | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Vial & Ravos | Marchesa | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Genju | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Golos | Horde | Najeela | Traxos

gunar
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Post by gunar » 1 year ago

seize the day is SO expensive to use, I think rumpy is right that the untap cards do what I want, but better. That's just for me, your build is fun monkey!

The wheel angle: leng lets you discard to the top of your library. So if you have 7 cards, and your opponent wheels: you discard 7, draw 7. Leng lets you pick whichever ones you want to keep, and cycle the rest. "I put these 3 on the top of my library, these 4 in my graveyard, and then draw 7." Now you have your favorite pieces, got rid of your dead/redundant cards, and have all your mana open. If there was a way to always have this out, I'd go more into things like wheels and gamble myself. If you never see wheels this doesn't matter, but I still like it for added hand protection.

I also tried using loyal apprentice, so I could repeat things like return to dust, but didn't seem worth it. One free token a turn cycle feels so slow compared to the others.

Steelshaper's Gift is even better than open the armory, but is less budget than open the armory. I recently played a match where someone had Stonehewer giant, a card which I did not know existed. It would be terrible for feather but they definitely used it to kill all of us.

I've also been debating removing aurerlia's fury. It does need 4 mana to be useful, and sometimes even when it is useful I don't want to use it for the salt factor.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Spells that don't save your whole board or clear the entire opponent's board that cost more than 2 mana are pretty questionable in my experience. The 3 mana spells that're okay are like Eerie Interlude because it saves your entire board.

I think Rumpy's 100% right that the *1* cmc (and free spells, e.g. convoke) are the ones that are the bread and butter.

There's just no real reliable way to make enough mana to cast stuff like Settle Beyond Reality or Aurelia's Fury and have it do enough to win in my experience. All those expensive spells are built on magical christmas land ideas basically.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

Yes, embrace the pursuit of cast spam and mega ramp! Let it flow through you!

I've actually met a few more wheels in my recent Cockatrice travels, and apart from that one time where a super early one binned both Mentor and Pybro I was okay upon resolution, hiding spells in response. And even in that one case my fresh seven contained Zada, so I largely continued going about my business.

I'm warming up to Intimidation Bolt. One of the many things that can happen in random pubs is someone zerging you turn four with Mana Crypt Veteran's Armaments Krenko 2 or goblin goblin Sheila. I'm mostly spared this sort of experience in my local group, where Feather is often the one doing the comparative zerging, and the deck is honestly quite unprepared for fighting on this axis. Three mana repeat-a-fog sounds like a reasonable way to blanket shield against that sort of stuff, and is still reasonably useful for stalling later if need be.
 
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Post by Crazy Monkey » 1 year ago

If you're looking for fogs, it is now my obligation to point out that Ethereal Haze is an arcane spell and can have a free splice to add a target onto it for repeatable, 1 mana fogs in the magical christmas land that I build my decks in.
Commander Decks


Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | Lavinia | Silumgar | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Kydele & Thrasios | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Gisela | Feather | Osgir | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Vial & Ravos | Marchesa | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Genju | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Golos | Horde | Najeela | Traxos

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

05.05.2020 Changes


I keep looping back to that goblin goblin Sheila game, and just how unprepared the deck felt to handle it. I don't feel I can do that much on this front, as I'm not super interested in reshuffling the deck into a Chandra's Ignition-spewing chip voltron shell, but a few responsible includes can help give the deck a little more reach.

05.05.2020 Changes
Approximate Total Cost:

A recurring theme of Feather discussion is some form of repeatable control of permanents. I feel that Duergar Hedge-Mage does a good job of handling artifacts and enchantments, given blink's prominence in the protection suite. However, there's no matching creature piece. Mangara is a rattlesnake more than an immediate answer, and the fact he usually takes a turn to wind up is not the best for actually handling problem scenarios. Costing three was a selling point back when he got added, but squandering three mana on this in the early game just feels kind of rough, in all honesty. I can't remember the last time I cast him, he just keeps rotting in hand. That's a good signal that he's a cut. I'm jamming Reckless Rage instead - a responsible piece of repeatable creature disruption. I didn't really have the guts to spam this in my group, but Feather barely sees play there anyway. Intimidation Bolt is another card that might actually be problematic locally, seeing how Lord Windgrace got lobbied into taking Constant Mists out. However, it is another responsible include that has been vouched for by multiple posters both on here and back on MTGS. Having either one of these new options would have successfully halted goblin goblin Sheila. Cavalier of Dawn, the best putative piece of ETB interaction, costs five at sorcery speed and would have been too slow. Plus as discussed recently, Feather is mana stingy, and five mana for something just doesn't come lightly. By the same logic, three mana for Fog Bolt is not the best either, which has kept it out of the deck up to this point. However, if the shell can cough up for Eerie Interlude to protect its board, it can scrounge up the same amount for not dying too, I'd imagine.

I re-read the entirety of the Feather ramblings, both on MTGS and here, and saw the evolution of the deck. The early version was content with just shredding the table off a Guttersnipe over a few turns. But later on more and more efficiency was introduced, diamonds became moxen. Notably, Fishbowl and Fists of Flame got added, and both of these end up incentivising a glamorous one-shot table kill as previously discussed, even with Pengine gone. The fact Fists of Flame is actually a cantrip, helping dig during setup if needed, is seriously not to be underestimated. One way or another, the deck's been leaning on these two as it can pull them off quite consistently, and some of the redundancy in the win cons could be put to other use. Scroll of the Masters was a bit of a pet card, as evidenced by a downright bizarre number of mentions in the primer's strategy section, but is also objectively the weakest of the bunch. Aria of Flame is the next on the chopping block, but you count to 12 with that thing and that's a person dead, with 17 needed to wipe a whole four-man pod. You count to 8 on Scroll and that's Feather being half-size voltron shot, meaning it might charge up marginally faster but also takes a while to confer its benefits and is susceptible to getting blocked in the process. In the interest of not mindlessly gutting what Past Rumpy was setting up over the course of multiple updates leading up to MH1, I'll leave Aria in for now and see how the deck fares with the new win con density before acting further. I'm pretty sure I underestimated the pure kill potential of Zada Hoof back then, for what it's worth. I still need to be more mindful of using Guttersnipe and going for more protracted or even just diverse lines. In a particularly memorable tussle with a 20-card-handed Izzet deck, I baited a counter with Fishbowl and stuck Guttersnipe afterwards, doing the same end step shenanigan as I would have anyway to take the guy out.
 
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

Heh, I wouldn't go as far as to say that this is full on dark side. We can come back to the topic once I'm jamming Drannith Magistrate, which actually seems plausible. The deck is too good for my paper group, but holds its own online, and random Cockatrice people seem more accustomed to stuff of that calibre coming out.

I've quite liked Reckless Rage in this land, as just sitting there with the ability to poop on anything for 4 gives me Zeus powers in what utility creatures I allow to live. That's usually most of them, but just having the power of bombing feels good. Plus, it's actually won me a game already. Syr Gwyn got megaswole megafast, but put on Lightning Greaves to quickly one-shot a guy as retribution for some Grave Pact grossness. As such, can't get evasive. So I just kept chumping with Akroan Crusader tokens while pooping on anything they tried to play to pull the Greaves off onto so Loxodon Warhammer could go on the Gwyn. Fog Bolt would have worked here too. Also, Aria of Flame has won me a rather annoying game where Tazri was out for my blood. Bala Ged Thief made a surprise appearance off Call to the Kindred and her repeated advances onto my hand stripped out the Zada (it was not time yet, the board was narrow and the mana too fleeting). Kindred Dominance followed a couple turns after, and the Tazri buffered up with lifelink on the swing. I had eaten every last piece of spot interaction (there was also a Murasa Pyromancer), got my board slurped by the wipe, and then got swung at. Oh yeah, and Narset superfriends set down a T3feri too. Fun times incarnate. So I untap with a bunch of plains (Kor Cartographer flickering never gets old) and Aria on five, devote the first spell cast to take out the T3feri so I can actually play the game, and keep cycling three unremarkable instants over and over again until Tazri is dead in their turn for being so out to get me. The rest of the table has no outs to the revved up Aria and falls over in my turn. Guttersnipe wouldn't have worked this tidily in this 60+ life opponent case, and would have also perished in the wipe. I realise anecdotal data is not fully indicative of a card's worth, as prior includes like Akroan Conscriptor had their time in the sun too, but it's nice to see Rage and Aria do stuff.
 
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

Another bunch of sets, another bunch of nothing for Feather. Unleash Fury is a pretty cool option for voltron builds, as you can drop it at the end of a pump sequence and it will still stack with double strike. But that's about it really. Angelic Ascension could theoretically offer a Path-style duality and turn chump tokens into angels, but that seems ultimately irrelevant and it's not stellar in its primary removal functionality either. Coughing up five for Double Vision to copy one mana cantrips feels not worth. Fiery Emancipation could maybe do a thing in voltron, but even there it feels winmore. Yet another Defiant Strike reprint is sad, as they could have just made a whole new cantrip yet chose not to :P

I haven't been getting a ton of Feather action recently as there's only so much Cockatrice pubs I can take. It's impossible to have a meaningful power discussion there, not that I haven't tried. All the various engine tune-ups have actually sped up the deck. It used to kill turn seven on a good hand, now it's got turn six wins in the bank and was on track for a turn five one when the table scooped. Flickered Dockside Extortionist is crazily good if there's stuff on the table to feed him. Bank up extra treasure between circulating some cantrips, and have a ridiculous mana supply for later. I've had games where I started some flicker+cantrip action as quickly as turn three. I'm happy with where the list currently is. The current weak point is Intimidation Bolt, but I'm sure I'll be thankful for that one at some point in the future when it saves my bacon.
 
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

Would you look at that, I'm thankful for Intimidation Bolt as it saved my bacon! Just had a very interesting Feather game where the Bolt ended up staving off a thick Utvara Hellkite swarm, and was a major decision point later on. How did it play out? Let's find out!

The setup was pretty decent for a game where an abusable token wide never showed up. Unwinding Clock plus a few rocks (and an artifact land gotten off Tempt with Discovery) let me get a cantrip in everyone else's turn and also keep flickering my Depression Automaton. By the time there was a dragon swarm, I was out of basics. Meanwhile, Marchesa wasn't really doing anything. I look to my junk-filled hand, see a secluded Fishbowl, and opt to conserve my life total by freezing the swing. While I don't necessarily think I was going to die there, it would make building up to a respectable life for Fishbowl purposes a lot harder. That, and the dragon tokens would just keep swarming. So I untap, deploy Fishbowl, have a modest garbagestorm turn (not a particularly stacked hand, as mentioned - even the cantrips were two-drop) and pass with 80 life. Marchesa untaps, rips Flayer of the Hatebound from underneath his Clone Shell, and casts Triskelion. I take the opportunity to ponder responses with Trike on the stack.

Seeing how I've got a Fishbowl and 80 life, it's obvious nobody is going to want to be friends with me. Marchesa's board may have been dwarfed by Intet's various Utvara tokens and plants, but upon inspection there's a good 20 damage to my face each end step if he so chooses. And it seems very probable he will choose so. Meanwhile, Intet just had Intimidation Bolt thwart his offensive. This looks threatening on board, I'm dead to this before I untap, I rip a lazor and Marchesa goes down. Intet untaps, I rip Bolt in his upkeep to minimise the odds of him having one of his handful of permission spells. Oh would you look at that Cryptic Command gg was closet. Guess he overtapped blue the prior turn or something.

Once we dissipated for the evening, I did a bit of a post mortem of the game with the Marchesa player. That's when he realised that I could have just blasted Intet in his (Marchesa's) turn. This would have completely bypassed Intet's turn, I'd absorb the 20 or so from Flayer, untap, pretty easily cook up a 7-tall Fishbowl response stack and win. Well crap. That's one to keep in mind for future narrow squeezes, I guess.
 
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

ZNR brings nothing to the deck. I initially misread Inordinate Rage as costing R and thought we're getting a direct upgrade over Titan's Strength, but it was not to be. Relic Amulet's main upside is that it comes out before Feather, but the card's just too weak to matter when you can count to 17 with Aria of Flame and win instead. Sejiri Shelter // Sejiri Glacier offers two-mana perk-free colour protection, when the list already expects its one-mana colour protection to have some extra value, and the tapland is far from enticing. Skyclave Apparition would have been a serious consideration if it weren't CMC-constrained.
 
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Post by gunar » 1 year ago

I was coming here to ask about your thoughts on ZNR. Just went through the whole list and had the same thoughts. Relic amulet and sejeri shelter both look ok but worse than everything else currently being run.

I DO think needleverge/Pillarverge Pathway will make the cut for me, but that's it.

Stoneforge Mystic and Imerpial recruiter were both reprinted in Double Masters and so I've been considering them. The reprint has dropped them some but they are still like $20 each.....

Gotta say goblin matron has been an all-star. I had like 10 copies of that card and never thought about running it in feather but man its great. Wonderful recommendation.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

Sorry for taking ages to reply, I could have sworn I did.

I'm not a fan of the Pathways, to the point where I didn't even mention them in any of my set reviews. Being a land-typed basic actually has a nontrivial amount of upside, there are things that care/fetch that stuff. There have been times when I managed to run dry from perpetual Depression Automaton flickering. As such, if I am to cut into my basic count (in no universe is a Pathway better than any of the duals in the list already), it has to be a hell of a reason. The upcoming crowdland is a hell of a reason.

Both of those are perfectly valid cards. Stoneforge Mystic has broader appeal, while Imperial Recruiter is better in this particular deck. It honestly depends what you foresee yourself wanting to do in the future. That said, Recruiter can be used other places too. I made an attempt at Xantcha recently, and Recruiter had a lovely toolbox of creatures to pick up. The printing of Angel of Destiny had me even considering him for a moment in my Ghired, as suddenly Recruiter hit all primary module pieces and could be sequenced early. Alas, I came to my senses pretty quickly - Naya has access to all sorts of nonsense like Eladamri's Call. Still, it's a testament to the card's potential.

I'm happy you're finding Goblin Matron useful. Most of the time, she gets Zada, but the fact she can also reach Dockside Extortionist and Guttersnipe is very respectable. Dockside is a ridiculous card in here, and has continued accelerating the clock by a turn or so when encountered. Even in relatively unfavourable circumstances, by turn six there's typically enough stuff around the table to get like 4-5 treasure off him. Couple with a Cloudshift or something and that's suddenly a whole load of extra mana to try to go off early with. On the subject of Recruiter, I have done the "ten mana Zada" before by using Matron as a linker piece. And it wasn't even bad :P

I've been getting some sporadic Feather games over the past few weeks, as a guy in my group built Omn4th. The deck turned out surprisingly good without the guy even aiming for that, and Feather has a worthy adversary. No revolutionary play patterns to report though, same old lines. ETB ramp flickers, Zada Hoofs, Fishbowl lazors. Still fun to do, mind you :P
 
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 11 months ago

CMR Change


Hello, land that taps for both my colours and comes in untapped. Think I can suffer going from 13 to 12 basics.

CMR Change
Approximate Total Cost:

Other than autoinclude land, the closest consideration would be Jeweled Lotus, and Feather's one of those decks that rock enough card advantage to be able to eat the occasional dead draw. Thing is, Feather doesn't die. She comes out of the command zone and the squadron of protection spells makes sure she sticks around, as the deck does nothing without her. As such, Lotus boils down to rushing out a quicker Feather if encountered super early, or being completely dead later. I don't run ~15 ramp pieces to power out an early Feather and then do nothing. Pass. The perpetual Arcane Signet reprinting is nice though, as is Thought Vessel.

Turns out the sporadic Feather games were actually undesirable for the third guy who was stuck tagging along, so they ended. Bummer. Still, I'm conceptually happy with where the deck is at now, so it boils down to awaiting new cards or intriguing discussion points.
 
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Post by BeneTleilax » 9 months ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
9 months ago
Your level of expertise suggests you're a Feather player yourself. Got a list anywhere?
Figured here was a more fitting place for it, so Unreleased and New didn't just become red spellslinger chat.
Here's my list, with the changes I envision from Kaldheim
Decks: Feather, Judith, Varina, Zabaz

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 9 months ago

Interesting, you seem to be pursuing a lot of the tech that I dismissed or never tried out. Should make for some interesting discussion as we compare experiences.
  • How have you been finding the repeatable removal? You don't seem to run too much pump, so Impact Resonance/Soul's Fire seem like they wouldn't accomplish a lot. On similar grounds, the repeatable wipes (Chandra's Ignition/Fell the Mighty) seem very expensive, narrow, and high variance. Still, you're running all this stuff, and I can't imagine you'd be hauling dead weight. What am I missing?
  • You've got some great tech in Selfless Squire and Sneak Attack. Feather can feel a bit helpless if outpaced, and the Squire helps with that. In turn, the latter is obviously in there to help power out bodies to start blinking. Cool synergy.
  • Veilstone Amulet is a card I've been always curious about, yet never actually tested out. How does it fare in practice?
  • You're not running any indestructible/protection stuff, instead going deep on the fast blinks. How have you found that impacting your resilience to various forms of interaction?
  • A couple quick swap suggestions - you seem to be missing Heal, maybe instead of Accelerate? It also seems like you'd be better off jamming something that isn't Balefire Liege for finishing. Even Aria of Flame, you count to 17 with that thing and that's the table gone. With Liege, you count to 17, red specifically (a bit of a problem as white is overrepresented in instants), and that's one-and-a-bit people down.
  • How have you been finding Boros Charm? I'm sniffing around for a Goldspan Dragon cut and that one struck me as a possibility.
Also, I've gotten about 10 test games in with Goldspan by now, and that thing is a house. Crazy Monkey pointed out that the wording is in fact Zada-friendly, which eliminates most push/pull dynamics, only competing with the heroic token producers. Plus, the dragon is actually secretly cheaper than the purported five mana price tag. You play it, you go to combat. You get to swing? Cha-ching, super-treasure get. Someone starts to fight you over it? Cha-ching, you get mana for the privilege, and can kickstart a stack war over the dragon (which you're likely to win). And once it gets rolling, damn does it get rolling. The fact my build is very heavy on one-drop spells means a lot of my recyclable instants are in fact mana-positive with the thing, and it feels great to rip a single treasure to pop two dig spells and end up with more mana than was there at the start of the operation. And souping up Dockside Extortionist is not too shabby either. This is nearly as potent as Paradox Engine was back in the day.
 
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Post by BeneTleilax » 9 months ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
9 months ago
Interesting, you seem to be pursuing a lot of the tech that I dismissed or never tried out. Should make for some interesting discussion as we compare experiences.
  • How have you been finding the repeatable removal? You don't seem to run too much pump, so Impact Resonance/Soul's Fire seem like they wouldn't accomplish a lot. On similar grounds, the repeatable wipes (Chandra's Ignition/Fell the Mighty) seem very expensive, narrow, and high variance. Still, you're running all this stuff, and I can't imagine you'd be hauling dead weight. What am I missing?
The repeatable removal is really good for killing utility dudes and dealing with commanders. I have totally shut down a Chulane with Reckless Rage a couple times. Bolt still hits a lot of things in this format, and just letting people know I have them is a surprising political advantage. I just hold up mana and people will avoid ticking me off, or even hold out on playing targets, and I can sometimes curry favor by hitting a creatures attacking someone else. Soul's Fire is the weakest of these, but the ability to go to the face comes in surprisingly handy in the late games, where it makes the difference between winning and killing one player before dying to a third. As for the wraths, Ignition doubles as a finisher, and Fell also takes advantage of how small most of my creatures are. That said, my meta is much heavier on creature combat than most seem to be, so I've certainly built for that.
Rumpy5897 wrote:
9 months ago
[*]You've got some great tech in Selfless Squire and Sneak Attack. Feather can feel a bit helpless if outpaced, and the Squire helps with that. In turn, the latter is obviously in there to help power out bodies to start blinking. Cool synergy.
Sneak Attack is amazing in this deck, and why I'm running some higher cost creatures than you are. Also, being able to surprise people with ETBs at instant speed is great. If you haven't tested it, you must. Squire I think is a bit conditional, alpha strikes being a common win in my group, but she's served me well. The only think that disappoints me is that she doesn't have 2 base toughness.
Rumpy5897 wrote:
9 months ago
[*]Veilstone Amulet is a card I've been always curious about, yet never actually tested out. How does it fare in practice?
Really good as another axis of protection, as I went deep on cheap blinks, as you said. It gets removed sometimes, but rarely before I get my mana's worth. Being able to use random cantrips as protection is great. Unless you have a weird amount of artifact hate in your meta, you should seriously give it a try.
Rumpy5897 wrote:
9 months ago
[*]You're not running any indestructible/protection stuff, instead going deep on the fast blinks. How have you found that impacting your resilience to various forms of interaction?
Between Mom, Shelter and Veilstone Amulet, I find I have enough diversity in terms of resilience, and they, as well as all my blinks and flickers, provide some value outside of protection, which really catalyzes the deck.
Rumpy5897 wrote:
9 months ago
[*]A couple quick swap suggestions - you seem to be missing Heal, maybe instead of Accelerate?
Rumpy5897 wrote:
9 months ago
[*]How have you been finding Boros Charm? I'm sniffing around for a Goldspan Dragon cut and that one struck me as a possibility.[/list]
Thanks for reminding me about Charm. It's ok, but it's ok at two different things, which gave it enough inertia that I never got around to cutting it. I think I'll put Heal in it's place. Incidental haste is too good with Mangara and Mom.
Rumpy5897 wrote:
9 months ago
It also seems like you'd be better off jamming something that isn't Balefire Liege for finishing. Even Aria of Flame, you count to 17 with that thing and that's the table gone. With Liege, you count to 17, red specifically (a bit of a problem as white is overrepresented in instants), and that's one-and-a-bit people down.
Liege puts tokens over the top often enough (and buffs Feather), and the incidental lifegain has saved me enough that I'm inclined to forgive it's slower direct damage output. Also, because Aria hits the whole table at once, it tends to make me archenemy while Liege doesn't.
Decks: Feather, Judith, Varina, Zabaz

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