Feather, the Redeemed - Weaponised Jankmas Incarnate

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

So I did a lot of thinking about Pyroblast for my build and I concluded that I think it is right to play, with the advent of Goldspan Dragon. It protects you from countermagic a little and it also lets you have a spell that can, in a pinch, be the cheapest way to use Dragon's Rage Channeler and Goldspan Dragon and Burning Prophet and Storm-Kiln Artist.

I am not sure what you would cut for it, but I think it deserves a spot. It's possibly better than Thought Vessel.

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Post by Crazy Monkey » 2 years ago

I've had a lot of success with Pyroblast as an Orvar, the All-Form enabler in other decks, and hadn't thought about it as an enabler in Feather. I should try that for myself because Goldspan Dragon is just that good. Actually having the option for interaction with counterspells should be great with Mavinda, Students' Advocate to recur it.

I can say that my experience with Thought Vessel was underwhelming when I included it due to the color requirements for Feather.
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Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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Post by Rumpy5897 » 2 years ago

Yeah, Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast are good anti-blue tech. One could argue that few non-blue decks have ways of dealing with blue permission, but few decks in general are as dependent on key plays sticking as this one. Definitely a responsible include, a class of card I'm known to avoid :P There's very little blue in my group, think there's like 6 pieces of countermagic total across 2 decks. As such, the card would be super dead on the rare occasion I get to walk the deck.

I actually had some of those rare occasions recently, as one of the guys in the group decided he's interested in exploring higher power games than what we usually sling around. Two of us went along with it, while the complainer who was the driving force behind our current power level predictably was not a fan :P Nevertheless, Feather got some action going, confirming that Dorf is dumb as hell, and that Aria of Flame is genuinely quite good. I've remarked here previously how the deck has sped up from its turn 7 on a good draw roots, going as low as turn 5 in some particularly potent situations, but I feel there's a limit as to how crazy this stuff can get. All the engine pieces cost mana to get, as do tutors to go find them. Want to add a swarm component to the party? That's even more mana to invest to get this rolling. I'm starting to see why the cEDH takes never bothered with the swarm/Zada angle, and there's a possibility it might get phased out in the interest of efficiency if they print enough dumb as hell cast engines. While less glamorous, counting to 17/20 with Dorf-style mana out is likely easier than trying to get Zada Hoof online.

I'll have to evaluate how important it is to have unlimited hand size these days. Back in the day it was quite useful to hold double digits of junk waiting for the pieces to come together. Perhaps the upgrade in engine quality/quantity means this sort of thing pops off easier these days. Thanks for the thought.
 
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Post by duducrash » 2 years ago

pokken wrote: Monastery Mentor is, arguably, the second best cast spam swarmer in the entire game. A true army in a can for this
Who is the best? I'm thinking alela maybe?

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

duducrash wrote:
2 years ago
Who is the best? I'm thinking alela maybe?

Young Pyromancer costs 2 :)

(but you can argue mentor is better in some ways because the monks have prowess so it can be a one cardkill in this deck)

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Post by Crazy Monkey » 2 years ago

Rumpy5897 wrote:
2 years ago
Yeah, Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast are good anti-blue tech. One could argue that few non-blue decks have ways of dealing with blue permission, but few decks in general are as dependent on key plays sticking as this one. Definitely a responsible include, a class of card I'm known to avoid :P There's very little blue in my group, think there's like 6 pieces of countermagic total across 2 decks. As such, the card would be super dead on the rare occasion I get to walk the deck.
I think it's important to note that using Mavinda, Students' Advocate and Feather to recur spells won't work with Red Elemental Blast because it requires a blue target, and feather doesn't have blue creatures. That said, if you don't encounter much blue in games, then these make a lot less sense. It could still be just a spell to cast for storm-kiln or goldspan to count up on aria of flame.

On the topic of token generation, is anyone else looking at Cemetery Protector with a go-wide Feather setup? I have a somewhat significant focus on tokens and token enablers, and I keep revisiting this as a third copy of Young Pyromancer. Having flash itself and being incidental graveyard removal make it a bit more flexible as well.
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Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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Post by BlackbirdPlaysMTG » 2 years ago

Awesome primer, very detailed :) ! I have been considering building Feather for a while now since the backbone of the deck, a bunch of red/white instants, is super cheap and I would like to build a deck that I can slowly upgrade. I replaced some of the more expensive cards in the deck and looked at other cards discussed in your primer. Started by removing some of the more expensive manarocks for cheap ones, removed the fetchlands for etb tapped lands (my meta is not THAT fast, so I don't think it matters) and basics, and I removed some cards like the creature tutors and Phyrexian Altar/Goldspan Dragon.

Lucky for me, I already own some cards like Monastery Mentor and Enlightened Tutor. Had to replace 24 cards in total, including lands quite a few lands. I added another Dragon in Smoldering Egg // Ashmouth Dragon (a bit slow), Phalanx Leader, Wall of Omens, Scroll of the Masters, Leering Emblem and Dualcaster Mage (this probably being the most questionable addition).

This resulted in the following decklist:
Feather, the Redeemed (Boros Spells)

Commander

Enchantment

Sorcery

Approximate Total Cost:

'

Would you say this is a reasonable starting point? I am probably going to save up towards your decklist, but I might go a slightly more voltron direction in the future.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 2 years ago

Apologies, thought I replied but apparently I did not. I like your take, your replacements are very sensible. Wall of Omens in particular is a really nice catch, and I'll need to remember its existence in case I ever do any grand deck pivots and need some stuff. Sarkhan's Triumph literally just gets Mirrorwing Dragon, which feels rather narrow, so keep an eye on it in testing to see if it's useful. Also, Smoldering Egg is a pretty bad card and you can probably do better. Dualcaster Mage is not the worst of ideas in a vacuum, but then you'd probably want to add the Twinflames and go into a more ETB/flicker direction.

If you find yourself gravitating toward the "cast spam" angle that my build pursues, you could add Samut's Sprint for another source of scry and a bit of potential pump. If you like the voltron then there's plenty of pump, your Assault Strobes and what have you. Let me know how things shake out - maybe you'll spot more Walls and I'll get to improve the list. I don't get to play it an awful lot, it's the most disliked of my builds within my group.
 
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Post by BlackbirdPlaysMTG » 2 years ago

Thank you for your response! Yeah, I have had Smoldering Egg on the battlefield a few times now, but it does not do much for 2 turn cycles basically. I am currently selling part of my EDH collection, so I managed to get my hands on a Goldspan Dragon. I guess I will swap the egg for the dragon now, that way Sarkan's Triumph has got two premium targets in the deck.

The only things I am currently missing are Sword of Feast and Famine and Phyrexian Altar, but I almost sold enough cards so I can buy these two too. I also upgraded the mana base a little bit with a Sacred Foundry and the checkland. Need a few more multi-coloured lands so I can take out the taplands. Sythis is currently using my suite of fetches (she is pretty pip hungry too), so I will probably play Feather without the fetches myself. I ill probably not add the fast mana rocks either, since most of my playgroup does not play these.

I will post in the thread again if I have played more games! Sadly I have not yet played with my regular playgroup... currently in a covid lockdown :pensive: .

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 2 years ago

Congrats on the Goldspan Dragon, that thing is going to serve you well for the rest of your Feather days. If being pragmatic, SoFaF and Phyrexian Altar are not crucial to the deck operating, and Altar in particular is no longer as relevant as it was pre-2021. At least these two are known EDH staples, so you should be able to find a home for them or use them as trade fodder shall the need arise.

Has your group considered slinging cardboard online? We've been using Cockatrice to test out deck ideas for years, and moved all cardboard operations there for an extended period of time as in-person play became impossible. It's good for morale in times like these.
 
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Post by BlackbirdPlaysMTG » 2 years ago

@Rumpy5897
I sold off some more cards and was able to purchase the Altar and Sword. Really wonder how they will perform in the list. If I don't play them in Feather they will definitely find a home in other decks I own. Now I only need to upgrade the manabase a bit and I am set.

We actually played a game on Spelltable yesterday (Usually I play on Cockatrice though. Boardstates are easier to read on there and you can test out cards before you buy them), so I was able to play Feather for the first time. It was a pod with Vadruk, Otrimi and Newzuri. The Vadruk player was manascrewed from the start of the game, so that kinda sucked. I won the match by machinegunning everyone down with Guttersnipe and some Feather beats. The deck was quite unassuming during the first few turns but when I found some cantrips the deck really switched gears. Definitely doesn't feel like your average Boros pile.

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Post by Crazy Monkey » 2 years ago

A quick chime in on phyrexian alter, I have had a lot of success transforming tokens into mana. It's another Goldspan Dragon with Young Pyromancer out. Although my list is different due to a lack of mana rocks and a higher focus on tokens.
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Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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Post by Rumpy5897 » 2 years ago

Yeah, Phyrexian Altar was the prime mana engine for a while after the Pengine ban, but Goldspan/Dorf getting printed took a lot of spotlight away from it. It's just a lot easier to get an engine going these days, as it's one card rather than two. I'm still keeping the Altar in for now, but my prior musings on streamlining hold. Let's see what the future holds.

I'm happy you're enjoying the deck, it does play quite differently to other Boros legends. I was enamoured by turning these terrible one-shot spells to effectively once-a-turn activated abilities, which suddenly opens up a bunch of possibilities. One could say the deck builds itself, and they wouldn't be that wrong. Any narrow legend tends to have a narrow card pool that makes it come online. But there are different ways of going about the direction beyond the most basic of targeted instants, which is nice.

Due to NEO's modified thing, most of its considerations deal with +1/+1 counters. Explosive Entry is a solid include in a grindy, controlling shell, as two mana repeatable artifact removal is nothing to scoff at. Light the Way and Regent's Authority are both cheap counter pump with slightly different perks. Spirited Companion is Wall of Hope 2.0, a solid filler card that I can keep in mind if ever I choose to add more cheap flicker stuff.
 
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Post by gunar » 2 years ago

Lion Sash is the card from NEO that mosts interests me. Doesn't seem to fit with Feather's plan...but I do like to have a piece of graveyard hate in my decks. The sash can be grabbed with either recruiter, enlightened tutor, and stoneforge mystic (which I know you took out of yours).

As always, thanks for the great write-ups. Just gonna keep pointing out random cards that likely still dont make it :P

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 2 years ago

To be fair, I'm just one guy, with my opinions and my extremely narrow take on the commander. The fact I don't bring a card up doesn't mean it's necessarily bad, I may have failed to connect the dots on it (I initially dismissed Anointed Procession in Daxos the Returned and had to be set straight by a poster - whoops!). Plus, frankly, I'm probably quite rusty. There hasn't been that much MTG in my 2021, and Feather is my least played deck. So I appreciate any opinions folks may have on things even more.

Lion Sash is a great card, but I have a complex relationship with grave hate. Graveyard decks tend to be very all eggs in one basket, so if you blow the 'yard up they often end up back in the stone age. White Scooze is not quite as obnoxious as some other options, but it's also the sort of card I'd associate with a slower shell. So yeah, sure, this could totally live in a Feather, the tutoring versatility helping it out a lot too. But I'd imagine this would be the sort of Feather that keeps blasting Fell the Mighty or whatever it is control Feathers do :P
 
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Post by BlackbirdPlaysMTG » 2 years ago

Just wanted to drop a bit of commentary on the deck here. I have played two games of Feather on Saturday. Won the first game and came close to winning the second game as well. First game I had a Storm-Kiln Artist and a Goldspan Dragon on the battlefield, and I was able to finish the game with Guttersnipe within two turncycles. I also had a Scroll of the Masters online which did quite some work, both offensively and defensively. Second game I had was able to take someone out who was threatening to go infinite turns with a load of Monastery Mentor monk tokens + Scroll of the Masters (I was able to buff an unblocked token for like +20/+20). The Locust God player went off after me though. I think I will keep Scrolls of the Masters included. It does not really need much to be strong.

According to the guys and girls (and myself) the deck feels great to play with and play against. Powerlevel-wise it was able to compete nicely vs things like Locust God, Ezuri and Atraxa. They were also (pleasantly) surprised that this was a token version and not a full-on-voltron version, without stuff like Fell the Mighty or Chandra's Ignition.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

SNC Change


Once connive got revealed, I was expecting a one-mana white instant that would just have a creature connive. Instead we got something which I'd argue is stronger.

SNC Change
Approximate Total Cost:

Boon of Safety is a spirit crushing card. Setting up "regeneration bubbles" on multiple key creatures as the turn cycle goes on allows for the benefit of widespread anti-conventional-wipe tech without the need of a Zada. And it scries too! There are technically ways to combat it, like your Pestilence sort of stuff, but those already do a very fine job of beating out current indestructible tech. Still, being able to re-use the spell and abuse shield counter stacking serves as a nice little reminder of why Feather is awesome. Taking out Titan's Strength as the eternal one-drop scry stop-gap. Back it goes to the list of potential includes in the event of a direction shift.

Illuminator Virtuoso feels interesting, but is a targeting hog and those have not been doing too hot in the list as of late, especially as Goldspan exists. I gave it a couple test games and it played rather strangely - doing a loot on a near-empty hand is a pretty tricky thing. At this point I'm not going to add it, but I'll keep it in mind going forward. There's honestly a good chance that this card would contribute more to the list than, say, Phyrexian Altar.

Other than that, there weren't a lot of other cards worth noting. Daring Escape is at best third in the pecking order of scry 1 fillers. Rose Room Treasurer is a faux-Phyrexian Altar with token generation, but the cap of two does quite severely limit the actual stupidity it could get up to.
 
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

The main CLB consideration for Feather is Wild Magic Surge as a two mana pop anything. One could argue that Chaos Warp is already dangerous with its whammies, and this helps luck out even more by forcing type alignment. On the other hand, two mana, and smart use should hopefully lead to less threatening things emerging from the top of the deck. In it goes to the list of potential includes in the event of shuffling stuff around.

Other than that, there's nothing to write home about. Blessed Hippogriff // Tyr's Blessing has a one-mana indestructible, Pegasus Guardian // Rescue the Foal has a two-mana blink. The blink in particular may get taken up by blink decks to get critical mass of that sort of effect. Bothersome Quasit is an interesting card, as you could keep some faster decks off your back a bit. Thing is, the window of opportunity where this would be able to see a meaningful number of non-creature spells is quite narrow. Seems like you'd be able to stretch your arm out and grab the deck that's a turn, two tops quicker than you.
 
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Post by Crazy Monkey » 1 year ago

Feather, the Redeemed and Zada, Hedron Grinder decks are where I was most disappointed by the restriction on Wild Magic Surge to opponent's permanents. As a more control oriented build than yours, I'm interested to hear how it performs for you. I wasn't planning to try it because I want to continuously buyback my removal.
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Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Deep gnome terramancer has a pretty high potential of outperforming your worst mana rock I think.

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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

Wild Magic Surge hitting our own stuff would be a bit too good. Half the cost of Polymorph with none of the target or timing restrictions, seems legit :P Plus they recently screwed up with Tibalt's Trickery, so they're probably going to be careful with self-targeting stuff like this for a while now.

Huh, the Terramancer is honestly a decent shout. I did not consider him here as I view these various white ramp cards as slow, more Daxos than Feather paced. Given the dominance of the 2021 mana engines and Zada Hoof, it might be time to reevaluate some of the lesser options in their respective categories. I may have to brave some Cockatrice pubs as I don't think I can put my group through the requisite testing regimen :P
 
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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

DMU Changes


Dear reader, if you've been considering keeping a primer of your own, may I wholeheartedly encourage you to do so. It's been very helpful to go back through the discussion and see various musings about weak points and possibilities. Put it all together with a little bit of a nudge from the new set, and a set of swaps addressing some of the list's shortcomings got proposed. Thanks all for your various feedback that helped shape this direction, particularly pokken and LaHistorica.


The swaps started with the cuts. Took out the most inefficient mana engine in Depression Automaton variant flicker, as it feels kind of silly to be paying that much mana for these pieces. Win cons were deemed too dense, so took out the least good one in Fishbowl. Funnily enough, that one was one of my more used ones as it is very fun to execute, but it is objectively the most winmore of the lot. Brought the protection suite back down to the size it was pre-SNC by taking out the least good "do nothing" protection piece. Devoted the opened ramp slots to Deep Gnome Terramancer and Knight of the White Orchid as they're both more mana efficient. I still dislike the fact Knight is a fake two drop, but he'll work just fine outside of turn two specifically. Put in Wall of Omens as some early defensive presence and maybe a way to turn flickers to cards in a pinch, as per a recommendation in the thread. Should probably be fine. Looped back to my aggro deck woes, and since we can't out-speed them, we need to clonk them back down to a manageable pace instead. Slaughter the Strong is perfect for that, as it leaves Feather up without any secondary shenanigans. Presumably if your board is stacked enough to not want to cast Slaughter, then you'll probably be okay.

Slaughter was the shakiest include of the lot until DMU spoilers started rolling in and Rosnakht got revealed. Making zero power chumps is neat for sneaking in under the wipe, so that helped solidify the direction, with Lolbold replacing the more expensive heroic token maker. Plaza of Heroes is another land that can be used to make both colours of mana, so in it goes. While the deck is relatively even in terms of theoretical pip distribution, the one-mana spells are heavily skewed toward white. Maybe I somehow should have taken out a mountain rather than a plains here, moving the balance to 8-3 rather than 7-4? Splitting hairs.

Relic of Legends would make two mana in separate instalments, as Feather would tap into it routinely. The deck didn't want Alpine Meadow, it doesn't want Sacred Peaks. Take Up the Shield is rocking a bunch of kinda cool stuff with the indestructibility, counter and lifelink. Maybe of use to voltron builds?
 
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Post by Crazy Monkey » 1 year ago

Entirely in line with your first paragraph, I had entirely overlooked Rosnakht, Heir of Rohgahh as a token source, thank you for highlighting it.

I am personally a big fan of Take Up the Shield As multipurpose lifelink, which is important for my build and Arcbond reasons.

You're definitely more streamlined than mine, but have you considered Chaotic Transformation As removal and/or repeatable polymorph?
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Kemba | Kytheon | Talrand | Unesh | Teferi | Geth | primer Zada | Krenko | Torbran | Patron Orochi | Ghalta | Gargos | Medomai | The Count | Xenagos | Nikya | Jaheira, Artisan | Trostani | Athreos | Jarad | Ivy | Nin | Krark & Sakashima | Feather | Osgir | Gisela | Roon | Chulane | Sydri | Ertai | Mairsil | Vial & Malcolm | Prossh | Marath | Marisi | Syr Gwyn | Riku | Riku | Animar | Ghave | Tasigur | Muldrotha | Rayami | Zedruu | Yidris | Kynaios & Tiro | Saskia | Tymna & Kydele | Atraxa | Akiri & Silas | Sisay | Ur Dragon | Bridge | Horde | Najeela | Genju | Traxos



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Post by Rumpy5897 » 1 year ago

Yeah, I saw that thing during spoiler season but forgot to take note of it as it costs six mana and "just" polymorphs stuff. Might still be worth in situations where you can catch a whole bunch of critical pieces with this. I'm sure you'll find something cool to do with this card :P

Another thing I forgot to mention, as it took some amount of brain juice to produce the update post, is I had a brief brush with a Feather Discord. I did not ultimately stick around, but it got me thinking about the combo approach that they take over there. There is a world where this deck ends up with a Dualcaster infinite, especially if the ETB subtheme gets further supported with new pieces. However, I can't see myself running a number of the other established combos as the pieces are rather dead on their own.
 
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

I know we've talked about this but may as well get it out there-- my combo package is:
Every single one of these cards is pretty strong independently, with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Combat Celebrant being the worst (just there to make Recruiter of the Guard have an outlet).

The number of times I have just gone Recruiter of the GuardDualcaster Mage, twinflame recruiter and cast dualcaster is pretty high. Pretty efficient combo line that only takes 8 mana.

But there's also Recruiter of the Guard for Dockside Extortionist, blink dockside, pass the turn. blink dockside, blink dockside, blink recruiter, untap and win. You can also blink recruiter twice in there to get a Dualcaster Mage as defense.

There's Imperial Recruiter for Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, kiki recruiter for Felidar Guardian gg (12 mana)

There's Recruiter of the Guard for Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, blink spell Recruiter of the Guard for Combat Celebrant, win (12-13 mana)

And on and on. There're so many combinations that win you the game out of nowhere and we have so much interaction it's pretty easy to jam them through.

Multiple redundant pieces that interact positively with each other.

The downside to this wincon is that it doesn't gum the board up like Zada, Hedron Grinder/Mirrorwing Dragonhoof plans do, or go off quite as insanely.

Still doing some thinking about adding Goblin Matron to the package since it also gets dockside, seems pretty obvious I guess :)

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