Karador, Ghost Chieftain - Quest for Control

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WizardMN
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Post by WizardMN » 3 weeks ago

shermanido37 wrote:
3 weeks ago
Frankly I'm deliberating whether to include even more low cost things.
I like your redundancy for Diligent Farmhand, but it feels like too much of my creatures want to sacrifice themselves, and not enough are ETB bodies that I can utilize. For that reason I'm not letting go of Dryad yet.

I'll also say that Gary is not only a win condition for me with Reveillark and Karmic Guide, but it's just super clutch in my relatively aggressive meta. I can see excluding it if you have neither of those.
I think your summary about what Lurrus works with is good. I know our builds are fairly different so I don't include some of those but others I do and I agree being able to "double up" with Karador, to an extent, offers a bit more to the deck.

I can see the point of wanting bodies on the field so I will be keeping an eye out for that. My thought is that generally the bodies are good for blocking once which Triber Elder, Elk, and Farmhand still do. Now, the point of course is whether I leave them out there long enough to actually block. I might get a block in for that turn cycle but they aren't going to stick around long after that. It is a valid concern.

Gray Merchant has his uses. Since I don't use Reveillark (I do use Guide) my experience with it might be different enough. I have been finding I am finishing games with cards other than Gray Merchant and 5 mana to drain for 5 life per person isn't ideal. Granted, Kokusho, the Evening Star does that for 6 mana but it also includes a big flying body with it.
pokken wrote:
3 weeks ago
This particular build feels more like a Resolute Archangel deck for lifegain than Gray Merchant of Asphodel to me. If you look at the way @WizardMN selects creatures it's more about making sure the Karador cast is really impactful in the mid game I think than lots of little guys.

It's honestly a shame white doesn't have more powerful lifegainers on bodies.

With Crop Rotation and Diamond Valley you might not really need anything else,
I think that is a reasonable assessment. Generally, I care most about being able to control the game and then have some haymakers to finish. And yeah, you might be right in that Archangel might be the more reasonable life gain effect.

Worth noting, I did cut Crop Rotation during the last "testing" changes. That isn't final, and it might be revisited. But the Diamond Valley interaction, more than any other, is one of the bigger issues I had with it. Especially since I also cut Knight. Again, these are not meant to be final or even indicative of a philosophy change; they were made to make room for increasing ramp. As I scale that back, which is likely inevitable, I probably add Crop Rotation back in. And I do agree that Diamond Valley (and Miren, the Moaning Well in a pinch) are the only real life gain I often need.

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Post by pokken » 3 weeks ago

WizardMN wrote:
3 weeks ago
Worth noting, I did cut Crop Rotation during the last "testing" changes. That isn't final, and it might be revisited. But the Diamond Valley interaction, more than any other, is one of the bigger issues I had with it.
Yeah I can see not wanting to play crop rotation just because it's almost generic goodstuff at this point, but it sure does have a lot of applications in this deck given that you have like 4 sac outlets on lands and being able to chain karador casts and protect things from exile removal are both kind of key to the deck closing games.

It's almost a subtheme of your deck honestly to play your sac outlets on lands or make the creatures sac themselves rather than depending on non-creature sac outlets like Ashnod's Altar etc. Not having to play stuff like Viscera Seer either -- more Yawgmoth, Thran Physician where the card is very good than good because it's cheap.

If you wind up cutting Greater Good which I actually am kind of coming on board with, I think you'll definitely want Crop Rotation back to help ensure you have access to sac outlets.

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Post by WizardMN » 3 weeks ago

pokken wrote:
3 weeks ago
If you wind up cutting Greater Good which I actually am kind of coming on board with, I think you'll definitely want Crop Rotation back to help ensure you have access to sac outlets.
Yeah, Greater Good is definitely gone. And I had considered Viscera Seer as a secondary sac outlet on a creature. I haven't wanted to go that route because I don't like the card outside of a dedicated sac strategy but it is good at what it does and works with Lurrus.

But you are spot on with my sac outlets on lands. I like that and I prefer that. It is different, and probably not the most efficient, but it gives the deck a little more character.

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Post by pokken » 3 weeks ago

WizardMN wrote:
3 weeks ago
And I had considered Viscera Seer as a secondary sac outlet on a creature
Yeah I think you'd probably just have more fun not bothering with it. You could always add Expedition Map which synergizes with Lurrus as well heh. I honestly do not own stock in expedition map inc., :P
WizardMN wrote:
3 weeks ago
But you are spot on with my sac outlets on lands. I like that and I prefer that. It is different, and probably not the most efficient, but it gives the deck a little more character.
It also gives a lot of resiliency to board wipes which is nice :) Since you're not infinite comboing anyway it's usually fine to have one or two activations a turn cycle.

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Post by shermanido37 » 3 weeks ago

If you're more into haymakers and bigger threats, then Lord of the Forsaken from the new set looks like it's crafted for you. A good body you start with, a sac outlet ability that lets you mill yourself to fill the yard, and the ability to pay life for casting things from the yard is stellar with Karador.

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Post by WizardMN » 2 weeks ago

That card came up earlier and I didn't really like it. Its utility is fairly minor (it only works with Karador; I guess Lurrus now too), The body is nice but the abilities just aren't that useful. I don't do self mill and I don't like sac outlets that cost mana (it is why Ayli was never a consideration). I agree that it works well with Karador but without him he is a 6/6 flying "nothing" and while that can help close out games, it doesn't do enough.

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Post by WizardMN » 1 week ago

I got a game in online against Volo, Guide to Monsters and Tergrid, God of Fright // Tergrid's Lantern. There was another player who conceded as soon as Volo got 2 Cloud of Faeries and I don't remember what they were playing. They didn't do anything so there isn't much to talk about.

Volo started off with getting a few copies of things like Solemn Simulacrum and the aforementioned Cloud of Faeries. Not super powerful but still annoying. I did wait a little to before removing Volo since I really wanted to be able to deal with Tergrid if needed. So, I just threw out a Fauna Shaman into a Yawgmoth, Thran Physician. I also cast and sacrificed an Outland Liberator // Frenzied Trapbreaker to blow up Volo's Rhystic Study. I didn't have any creatures to discard to Shaman at the time but I wanted Yawgmoth on the field.

Luckily I drew a creature and discarded it to get to False Prophet. I cast that and was able to sac it to Yawgmoth. Tergrid ended up getting Prophet and Yawgmoth since I sacrificed him to Diamond Valley to gain life. I probably shouldn't but Tergrid didn't do anything with him so no real issue there. This exiled everything and Volo was down to 0 cards thanks to Tergrid. I was at 3 cards (from 1) thanks to Yawgmoth and next turn I drew Liesa, Forgotten Archangel. I cast Nature's Lore first and then Liesa which tapped me out so Nature's Lore having the land enter untapped was crucial. Tergrid tried to get me to discard on their turn after casting Tergrid again. Luckily one remaining card was Solitude and the other was Vampiric Tutor so I just cast both and discarded nothing. Solitude exiled Tergrid and Tutor got me Lurrus of the Dream-Den. There might have been better options since I was back down to 0 cards (I was thinking Lifeblood Hydra) but I wanted to try Lurrus.

On my turn, I cast Lurrus and recast Outland Liberator // Frenzied Trapbreaker. Tergid made me sac a creature so I sacrificed Solitude with Liesa gave back to me. Then they cast Vona's Hunger so I blew up Tergrid's Geth's Grimoire in response to it and just had to sac Lurrus as I only had 2 creatures left. Liesa gave me both back (or would have at the end of the turn) so they just scooped it up.

This ended up being a great game for seeing new cards. This is among the first times I cast Solitude, Lurrus didn't do a lot but did something, Outland Liberator did exactly what I thought it would, and Liesa was stellar for as little as she was around. I have noticed that this is leading me further and further away from wanting to cast Karador which I am not entirely sure is a bad thing. Being able to use Karador as a game-ending/winning play might be better than trying to get value out of him early. Lurrus and LIesa allows for the incremental value earlier.

I am liking the spell based ramp as well. I only saw one ramp spell which was Nature's Lore but it did allow me to sequence into Liesa nicely. It was disappointing that the fourth player scooped so soon. I could understand the Volo scoop after False Prophet went off since they were at 0 cards and no board. Though, technically, so was I.

In the end, Prophet came through in spades and this was the first time I have really used Fauna Shaman. Prior to this, Shaman was in a weird spot due to not wanting to "lose" cards (I realize it replaces them) but Lurrus kind of fixes this which is nice. Hopefully the next round of testing goes just as well, and that players stick around.

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Post by Dunharrow » 1 week ago

I think I have to consider Liesa for my deck. When you compare to Karador casting one creature every turn, it does a lot more. I will need to look at my discard outlets though because Liesa is not a may and sometimes I need cards to stay in the GY.

Any thoughts about Mike from Stranger things?
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Post by WizardMN » 1 week ago

Yeah, if there is a reason to keep creatures in the yard after dying, it might be a hindrance. Though, as you said, you might be able to utilize discard outlets to get around it. Another point is that the trigger to return them does so in the end step so you might be able to work around it that way as well.

I don't think Mike is good enough. He only works on things that died this turn which makes Saffi Eriksdotter a much better option since she can activate right away. There are a couple differences of course, but the main points would lead me to wanting to run Saffi over Mike.

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Post by WizardMN » 1 week ago

I played another game. This one was against Morophon, the Boundless (God Tribal), Wyleth, Soul of Steel, and Nekusar, the Mindrazer.

Nekusar was the clear threat right out of the gate so we did a few things against them to try to stall them. I didn't have a lot to do to begin with but I was able to remove Nekusar with Swords to Plowshares at least once. Otherwise, the other players attacked them pretty often.

I wasn't able to do a lot but I did get Fauna Shaman which got me Bane of Progress. This was used in conjunction with Dauthi Voidwalker to cast Wyleth's Shadowspear to get rid of Indestructible and Hexproof from the other player's stuff which let me kill about half the gods. I was then able to get False Prophet to get rid of the rest.

Nekusar had scooped a little bit before this after their commander was removed again.

I was in a decent position and was just trying to control the game a bit. I was trying to sequence things to deal with Morophon's The World Tree. I ended up leaving up removal for the Purphoros, God of the Forge on the field in response to them cracking it but I forgot about the other Purphoros they could get so they just swung in with a bunch of hasty Gods. I had tried to set up a future play expecting them to crack the World Tree and then me having a turn to still do stuff. Had I really been thinking about it (or just accepted that I should have played it safe) I could have cast Karador to get False Prophet back and keep that up as a deterrent. So, I think the deck performed well but I made a pretty crucial mistake at the end of the game to end up losing.

I am thinking Fracture might need to be something else. I had it in hand for a while and there was never a need to use it. I like the ability to deal with those card types but not being able to deal with creatures is a pretty significant downside. I mentioned it before when I added it over Krosan Grip so this is not shocking at all. I don't know what I would prefer in this slot. Maybe I just go with Vindicate to help deal with Lands too even if it is a Sorcery. Otherwise, Utter End might not be the worst? Or Assassin's Trophy? The ramp isn't as big a deal later in the game anyway. Or just going back to Beast Within and/or Generous Gift.

Though, thinking on this, maybe I revisit Ashen Rider as well? That 8 mana is massive but it has a good effect. Others have suggested it and the mana cost always puts me off.

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Post by yeti1069 » 1 week ago

If you're not going up to the 8 mana Ashen Rider, I'd rate Assassin's Trophy as being about equal to Beast Within/Generous Gift, and all of them being better than Vindicate (instant vs sorcery is a big deal on spot removal). I like Utter End, but would probably run the other removal spells first, unless you run into a lot of cards that need to be exiled (indestructible, or lots of graveyard recursion).

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Post by WizardMN » 1 week ago

Yeah, I think that is a fair assessment. Even as I was typing it up, Trophy was the front runner for me. 2 mana vs 3 and even the ramp might be less impactful than giving them a body. I have had a couple situations where Cavalier of Dawn giving them a body led to not being able to swing the way I wanted. It probably isn't the worst thing overall but I do like Trophy being 2 mana.

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Post by Dunharrow » 1 week ago

Ya, trophy seems best
Ashen Rider is a card I absolutely love but really it is only worth it if you plan to reanimate it. Since Karmic Guide is your only way to cheat it in for a discount, I don't see it working well.
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Post by pokken » 1 week ago

Assassin's Trophy is definitely the best removal spell you're not playing; I would consider playing it over Unexpectedly Absent and I'm hugely high on that card compared to most. I could definitely see getting rid of Cavalier of Dawn too.

I think you probably want a second Eternal Witness effect if you're playing all those spell removals, since the whole karador lock with e-wit/Unexpectedly Absent is really good. I'm a big Skullwinder shill but what I would try is Woodland Bellower. Man I love that card. It does crazy work in your deck too, getting E-wit, Spike Weaver, Wood Elves or Qasali Pridemage or Scavenging Ooze. I really enjoy those limited tutors though.

I'd consider cutting Pernicious Deed for Bellower when you add trophy for cavalier, since Deed is really past its prime as a removal spell if you're not on a bunch of planeswalkers imho -- not exiling and being super mana hungry is no way to go through life :)

*personally* I would probably keep Ashen Rider since just casting it once a turn cycle is enough to win the game at the end :P The LTB exile effect is great for getting around bullcrap too.

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Post by WizardMN » 1 week ago

Dunharrow wrote:
1 week ago
Ya, trophy seems best
Ashen Rider is a card I absolutely love but really it is only worth it if you plan to reanimate it. Since Karmic Guide is your only way to cheat it in for a discount, I don't see it working well.
I think this might be where my build tends to differ from others: I am not really a reanimator build. I use the yard and do things with it, but I am not true reanimator so my card choices don't always fit into more common Karador builds.
pokken wrote:
1 week ago
Assassin's Trophy is definitely the best removal spell you're not playing; I would consider playing it over Unexpectedly Absent and I'm hugely high on that card compared to most. I could definitely see getting rid of Cavalier of Dawn too.
That is an interesting comment because I have started thinking along those lines as well. Being a creature is definitely a benefit in this deck but 5 mana, Sorcery timing, not hitting lands, and giving a body in return are detriments. I do like the card but it is sort of an easy one to swap out eventually.
I think you probably want a second Eternal Witness effect if you're playing all those spell removals, since the whole karador lock with e-wit/Unexpectedly Absent is really good. I'm a big Skullwinder shill but what I would try is Woodland Bellower. Man I love that card. It does crazy work in your deck too, getting E-wit, Spike Weaver, Wood Elves or Qasali Pridemage or Scavenging Ooze. I really enjoy those limited tutors though.
This is a good point too. I wouldn't mind a second E Wit effect. I am not sure I am sold on Bellower though. It mostly gets ramp, but Ooze, Fiend Artisan, Outland Liberator (which I cut Pridemage for; I really need to start updating the first post with the updated decklist), and Collector Ouphe could put it over the top. It can't get Weaver though since that is 4 mana. I might try out Skullwinder though. As you said, I am moving into a bit more spells for certain things so being able to get them back a bit more often could be useful. Even being able to fire it off for a random ramp spell isn't the worst.
I'd consider cutting Pernicious Deed for Bellower when you add trophy for cavalier, since Deed is really past its prime as a removal spell if you're not on a bunch of planeswalkers imho -- not exiling and being super mana hungry is no way to go through life :)
First, I am cutting Fracture for Trophy :) And second, this is a pretty hot take to be honest. And one I am not against by any means. This deck has had Deed in it since basically its inception so it would be a pretty hard cut to make. It also works pretty well with Sun Titan. While I am not quite ready to cut it, I might have to give it a bit more thought.
*personally* I would probably keep Ashen Rider since just casting it once a turn cycle is enough to win the game at the end :P The LTB exile effect is great for getting around bullcrap too.
Perhaps. I am still not convinced that always having to pay 8 mana for it is right but I might not be giving it enough credit. As mentioned above, it certainly has a home in a more reanimator focused build. But maybe with the added ramp I can make it work a bit better. I won't count it out for now (and maybe this is the card for Cavalier).


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Post by WizardMN » 1 week ago

Based on the conversations above, I decided to try the following:
10/19/2021
Approximate Total Cost:

Ashen Rider is easily the most "on the fence" change. I decided to try it because I was curious on the impact of other changes and since both pokken and Dunharrow mentioned it, I figured I could see if the deck could support it.

Assassin's Trophy was the main add and I cut Fracture for it as I don't think Fracture was doing enough. Skullwinder was an "E Witness" addition as I figured it was worth trying out and cutting Deed was based on pokken's suggestion of it not being good enough. Which might be true so testing without it is best.

I did play a game online with these changes which I will summarize below. All in all, I do like, or am optimistic about, the cuts. I want to like Ashen Rider due to the power so we will see how that goes.

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Post by WizardMN » 1 week ago

I played online against Toshiro Umezawa, and Jodah, Archmage Eternal. There was another player that scooped right away after accidentally playing a turn 1 Azorius Chancery. I never even saw their commander and the replay feature doesn't show it either.

I started off with a reasonable hand of 3 lands (no white), Satyr Wayfinder, Luminous Broodmoth, and Remorseful Cleric. I mulliganed to 6 so that was my entire starting hand. Wayfinder got me Horizon Canopy (no other lands were milled so I got lucky to at least hit something).

Skullwinder came out a couple turns later to pick up the Path to Exile I milled and I intended to pick Toshiro since they had nothing in the yard. They responded with Slaughter Pact to blow up Jodah (which is what I wanted Path for) so I still chose them to get their Slaughter Pact back. I ended up exiling Path to Solitude later after getting Luminous Broodmoth on the field to exile both Jodah (after being recast) and Toshiro.

I did miss an opportunity to crack my Remorseful Cleric in response to a wrath though I would have exiled Jodah's yard since Toshiro only had 1 card in theirs. But looking back, I definitely should have gone after Toshiro even for that one card since they had thrown out Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed and were clearly going to be doing a lot with the yard. And the card they had was Beseech the Queen which they ended up casting something like 5 times this game. Exiling it when I could would have saved a lot of trouble.

Unfortunately, I got stuck on 7 lands with one being Diamond Valley. I could never get above that and couldn't seem to get anything going to really push me into contention. I did recast Broodmoth with Sakura-Tribe Elder and Recruiter of the Guard on the field but Jodah countered it. Which, at the time, seemed like a bad play since I had 2 cards in hand and Toshiro had 7 cards in hand and 13-14 available thanks to Cabal Coffers.

I did end up getting rid of Coffers using Assassin's Trophy but then they used their Beseech the Queen again to get Cabal Stronghold and just started up their massive mana advantage again. I felt that I was still in a reasonable spot even with these issues though. Not great by any means, but Toshiro was still going sort of slow.

However, I just could not get anything. I couldn't draw extra cards and the cards I was drawing for turn were not good enough to get me out of the hole I was in since my land situation didn't really even let me use Karador for much. I did cast him once to then cast Recruiter again but I didn't have anything that really did anything with the board state. Maybe I should have gotten False Prophet to hope to get Toshiro at the right time but that would have been tough since it was telegraphed pretty well. At best, I think I would have messed with their Corpse Dance timing (which kept bringing back Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed to bring back other cards) but that wouldn't have been enough since they would have only lost Toshiro and they could have easily recast him (and he wasn't as important as Xiahou anyway).

I did get to Yawgmoth, Thran Physician with a couple creatures to sac to draw cards and Sun Titan to start getting some advantage but that was too little and Toshiro easily had things figured out to just clear my board anyway. I did end up getting Sakura with Sun Titan in the hopes to ramp a bit, which I did, but this got me to land 8 on turn 15 which did nothing. In the end, Toshiro got us with Thrilling Encore and I just scooped it up after they took my Yawgmoth, Sun Titan, and Sakura. The game was mostly done before that as Jodah wasn't able to get anything going either so we were basically at the mercy of Toshiro constantly re-using their yard.

I do admit that this is the first graveyard heavy deck I have seen in a long long time. And I had Remorseful Cleric which did basically nothing. Granted part of that was because Toshiro stole the Cleric and used it against me which was less than ideal and got rid of a couple small things and the Cleric. If I had that for longer, I could have potentially used it to slow Toshiro down. So, this is one of the few games where my lack of grave hate really hurt and they were able to play around the grave hate I did have while simultaneously hurting me with it.

Beyond that, I am starting to wonder if Aura Shards really needs to be in this deck still. I had it out fairly early and blew up 1 or 2 things with it. And then it just sat there, triggering, to do nothing. In one instance, if Toshiro had anything, it would have actively hurt me. That is when I cast Karador. Instead of being able to cast Karador and immediately cast a card from the graveyard, Aura Shards triggered and gave opponents a moment to remove Karador before I could use his ability. Luckily they didn't, but they had the chance and it would have been a pretty big blowout for me since I had nothing else going on at the time and couldn't have even recast Karador thanks to my land situation.

Obviously my lack of ramp was a big problem. I don't think I need to change anything for it; I just drew the wrong half of my deck. But losing out on ramp and card draw both affected this game negatively. I don't think I need to do anything for card draw right now either. Sometimes that is just how things go and honestly, if this was against any deck that wasn't constantly re-using the yard, I wouldn't have been in that bad of a spot anyway. I just couldn't keep up.

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Post by pokken » 1 week ago

I don't think you can make a ton of conclusions about getting stuck at 8 lands in a 38 land deck with so much card draw and ramp. that's just the ass end of variance talking.

I have personally cut Aura Shards from everything; it never creates good play experiences, either shutting artifact/enchantment themed decks out entirely or doing nothing. You have Bane and ways to get rid of Torpor Orb and I think that is fine.

Easy argument to make for adding another creature and shaving enchantments I think.

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Post by WizardMN » 1 week ago

Yeah, I agree. I do like Bane and I like the blowouts it provides. But Shards does feel really bad from the other side of the table when playing a bunch of artifacts and enchantments but on the flip side, it feels like a waste when there are no targets (like the game above). It is just in a weird position sometimes and I think I have plenty of good alternatives either way. Which means that I agree it would be nice to throw in another creature instead. Now I just need to figure out what that creature is :)

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Post by pokken » 1 week ago

WizardMN wrote:
1 week ago
Yeah, I agree. I do like Bane and I like the blowouts it provides. But Shards does feel really bad from the other side of the table when playing a bunch of artifacts and enchantments but on the flip side, it feels like a waste when there are no targets (like the game above). It is just in a weird position sometimes and I think I have plenty of good alternatives either way. Which means that I agree it would be nice to throw in another creature instead. Now I just need to figure out what that creature is :)
Just a few thoughts:

Demon of Dark Schemes The demon of dank memes has always served me well :) It's extra good in this deck where you are going to have monstrous guys in the yard and most of your little guys can just die and you don't care much.

Emeria Shepherd is real good.

Resolute Archangel of course we both love.

If you want to keep the mana cost kinda similar, you could consider some cheap card advantage engine like Oakhame Adversary or Mindblade Render who both are likely to overperform in your deck with all the removal.

While it has *some* countersynergy, Nightmare Shepherd might be pretty good in this deck since you get to choose.

A bomb card draw spell that goes with your theme of not caring too much if your dudes die is Ohran Frostfang.

Wickerbough Elder is basically a 1-for-1 replacement that comes with a decent body, though fairly inefficient. Thrashing Brontodon is similar but just probably better if you aren't still running pod.

Archon of Coronation has been pretty fun for me overall.

Hallowed Spiritkeeper might be worth trying out.

--

Overall I'd probably go with Oakhame Adversary - I love that card and it's really nice when it just keeps coming back for 1G with deathtouch.

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Post by WizardMN » 1 week ago

I think I am more interested in smaller "utility" creatures rather than larger bombs. I think in general my games are lost more in the early game than the later game. Or, more specifically, when my early game is pretty "meh". Having a smaller creature that can offer a bit more utility to keeping things running is ideal. As such, of the ones you mentioned, I think I like Oakhame Adversary and Mindblade Render the most. Render is nice because it can trigger off opponents attacking other opponents but Adversary is nice thanks to the deathtouch making blocking be a real risk. The 4 mana into maybe 2 mana is concerning. I don't like relying on my opponents quite that much. Green is fairly common but destroying the only green opponent's only green permanent to then draw into Adversary and not be able to cast it is tough. Not to say that would happen often but in the last 3 games I played, I think only one had a legitimate "green" commander (Volo) whereas the other green commanders weren't really doing much with green and wouldn't have helped a lot.

Ohran Frostfang is an interesting idea as well but at 5 mana it could end up with being in a weird spot where I am lagging behind and it doesn't do enough to bring me up to speed. It is a good card though so I might come back to it.

For now I think I will just make room for both Mindblade Render and Adversary to see which I like more. Both have their strengths and I am not sure I need/want both so trialing them together gives me a better idea of which one seems to fit more.

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Post by pokken » 1 week ago

WizardMN wrote:
1 week ago
For now I think I will just make room for both Mindblade Render and Adversary to see which I like more. Both have their strengths and I am not sure I need/want both so trialing them together gives me a better idea of which one seems to fit more.
I have been liking playing dudes like Mindblade Render a lot more than Wall of Omens type stuff lately since it's just...more active, and higher ceiling I guess? It's nice having the occasional 2 mana Phyrexian Arena game.

They seem very good in Karador were they're just an easy way to get the card train going after sweepers and such for not a lot of mana.

It's weird how often having hit someone for even just 3-4 is consequential too, or the ability to profitably block 2/2s :P

Anyway, I think it's reasonable to try them both and see which works better.

I was thinking about suggesting Skyclave Apparition but it feels like a good way to just get beaten to death.

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Post by yeti1069 » 1 week ago

I run Pernicious Deed in two non white decks, and unless you're running a couple of the blow up everything sorceries I could t imagine cutting it. Sometimes it's a little expensive to cast and use but I find that rarely to be the case, while Its ability to be somewhat selective in what it destroys has made for some big playa. I'd imagine this to be especially true with h such a high CMC commander. There are also more ways to recur an enchantment in these colors than a sorcery. Even just Sun Titan allowing you to repeatedly sweep anything below 5 CMC is super strong. I also appreciate that it can also sweep most tokens for just 3 mana.

Finally, you can also use it as a rattlesnake or political card. It does SO much. I'm curious why you've moved past it Pokken.

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Post by WizardMN » 1 week ago

I did consider cutting Wall of Omens/Blossoms for these cards but I decided to try Aura Shards (as discussed) and Satyr Wayfinder. This is one that is decent but it never felt quite right so for testing, it seemed alright to cut. And yeah, being able to hit early can have a legitimate impact on the rest of the game.

However, it appears that Oakhame Adversary is bugged online :( The cost reduction never works which means it is always 4 mana. I guess that makes my decision a bit easier lol

I did try 2 games with those changes and both were just awful. Both included the same Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis player. The first allowed Radha to get to something like 15 lands on turn 5 with 45+ mana at their disposal. Granted, they could only tap 7 lands for 21 mana total since Overabundance was the reason for the mana but 21 mana was more than enough. Then Kaalia blew up all lands which I hated but realistically was necessary. The game was over whether they did or not. I just hate group hug.

The next game was labeled as "Anything goes" so I figured it would be high power and I would likely lose but I could at least see what happened. Kynaios was here again and cast Magus of the Vineyard which let the Thrasios, Triton Hero & Tymna the Weaver player cast their Thrasios turn 1 into Rings of Brighthearth and Basalt Monolith turn 2. So, this wasn't a game either.

I am going to try again and see if I can find a real game to try these changes out.

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