Ephara, God of the Polis - Flash & Taxes

kraus911
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Post by kraus911 » 1 year ago

I like Voidmage Prodigy. It's a bummer it doesn't have flash, but you're already running 5 wizards, one of which is Glen Elendra so not that one but the others could be sac'd for counters. Hinterland Hermit // Hinterland Scourge seems decent too but probably too easy to play around, Voidmage is nice as a hard counter.

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

kraus911 wrote:
1 year ago
I like Voidmage Prodigy. It's a bummer it doesn't have flash, but you're already running 5 wizards, one of which is Glen Elendra so not that one but the others could be sac'd for counters. Hinterland Hermit // Hinterland Scourge seems decent too but probably too easy to play around, Voidmage is nice as a hard counter.
Main issue with prodigy is mana cost total and telegraphing I think. Good thought though.

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Post by shermanido37 » 1 year ago

If Hullbreacher were still legal, Arcane Denial would go in no questions asked. You can still try and simulate some of that effect with Spirit of the Labyrinth, but it's not quite the same.
I'm using Archon, Eidolon of Rhetoric, Lavinia, Azorius Renegade, and Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir etc. to empower Suspend to become super removal. If that works out, I'll be trying to make Delay work as a super counter in much the same way.
But I'd be doing all that after running Counterspell, which you don't have here yet. So I'm thinking you're better off doing that first. And if you want more counters, since you can combo with with Archaeomancer, you probably want Cryptic Command and Mystic Confluence.

Edit: kraus is probably speaking of Malevolent Hermit, a card that has proven useful in cube, but seems a tad narrow for EDH.

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

I'm sure it's an unpopular take but even sans synergy I prefer arcane denial or memory lapse over counterspell. Denial giving me additional velocity is usually worth the risk. And easier to cast too.

I am definitely like the cryptic/mystic combo with archaeomancer for closing games. I think maybe I should be running another arch effect for that to be good. Keep hoping they make a uw one that gets enchantments instants or sorceries or something. :).

Hermit seems not horrible. But there is a massive difference in play between a surprise and a telegram. Glen elendra is amazing in this deck because of two activations for 4. I don't know if two activations for 6 is good enough but I'll think on it. No creature rider is also annoying.

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Post by shermanido37 » 1 year ago

Lapse is just awful in EDH. With an abundance of card draw, and tempo being negligible in commander in general, it is barely a setback for the opponent, and a waste of a card for you.
Arcane Denial is definitely much better, but is much more dependent on the pilot calculating when to use it. Definitely worthy of inclusion, but I still prefer Counterspell for having a simple counter with no questions asked. UU is more than reasonable in a two colored deck.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

shermanido37 wrote:
1 year ago
Lapse is just awful in EDH. With an abundance of card draw, and tempo being negligible in commander in general, it is barely a setback for the opponent, and a waste of a card for you.
Arcane Denial is definitely much better, but is much more dependent on the pilot calculating when to use it. Definitely worthy of inclusion, but I still prefer Counterspell for having a simple counter with no questions asked. UU is more than reasonable in a two colored deck.
I usually find that the cantrip for me is worth letting them draw 2. I've usually really worked their plans over and two random draws isn't likely to replace whatever I decided to counter because decks are not very threat dense these days.

I think you probably are underrating memory lapse. For every time it gets you by getting redrawn it will save you by preventing some kind of graveyard shenanigan in my experience and being easier to cast is huge. It's pretty nice when it makes them miss a land drop too :) you'd be surprised how often the entire table knowing you're going to draw a bomb is a horrible political place to be.

It does get you sometimes with the whole I draw a card then recast it but it's rare that that happens in my experience.

But I definitely prefer denial :).

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Post by shermanido37 » 1 year ago

I usually find myself as the only one that properly tries to get a proper priorities list on who's the biggest threat... Mostly players are content to spill their jam on the table and fold if it doesn't stick. If I had more reactive players on the table perhaps I'd be able to trust them more and there'd actually have to be a well thought out player policy, but as is I don't see it happening.
The best thing about hatebears is that they let me react to all three opponents at the same time potentially while they continue mindlessly playing their cards and stumbling into my traps.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

So I think aboleth spawn is likely a cut but it sure was good tonight. I drew 8 cards off an eternalized champion of wits someone cast with a naban out then I win. Yar.

I'm likely going to be doing some major surgery on this deck soon. Need to decide whether I'm a displacer kitten deck or not. It's a bit frustrating how docksidesque this card is. It's so just... everything revolves around it.

Giving some thoughts to moving back to all Hatebears and pushing the etb hate very hard but not sure how to beat beat down decks there. It's really a tough time for getting the deck good but not too good?

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Post by shermanido37 » 1 year ago

If you're looking for an answer for Displacer Kitten, the very obvious answer is Containment Priest. The kitten is very cute, but Faerie Artisans far outpowers it in my opinion, and Aboleth Spawn is looking to be on the same track.
If you're looking for answers to beatdown, I run 5 mass removals, which do a very solid job. That along with a few token engines or graveyard recursion should probably be a good balance.
I'm waiting for Hullbreaker Horror and Tidesprout Tyrant to arrive so that I can use them for combos and stuff. But I'm open to suggestions...

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

shermanido37 wrote:
1 year ago
If you're looking for an answer for Displacer Kitten, the very obvious answer is Containment Priest. The kitten is very cute, but Faerie Artisans far outpowers it in my opinion, and Aboleth Spawn is looking to be on the same track.
If you're looking for answers to beatdown, I run 5 mass removals, which do a very solid job. That along with a few token engines or graveyard recursion should probably be a good balance.
I'm waiting for Hullbreaker Horror and Tidesprout Tyrant to arrive so that I can use them for combos and stuff. But I'm open to suggestions...


The kitten Lines are just unbeatable honestly for ephara at top power. Recruiter for kitten blink recruiter get spellseeker blink recruiter again for archaeomancer mystical for time warp.

The crazy thing is kitten Hullbreaker belong in the same deck with Mana Vault and so on. Because kitten can blink mana rocks for some damn reason.

Top power ephara is 100% displacer kitten horror mana rock deck. Kitten is absolutely bananas.

Artisans is great and not costing mana is huge but kitten goes off on accident. It soft locks the board under Windshaper Planetar or
Venser, Shaper Savant so easily.

I haven't even begun to tap the levels of %$#%$#% you can do with kitten. It's a deck defining card on a power level with recruiter.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

I thought of a pretty wild shenanigan with kitten and top I wanted to remember. You can tap top, cast an instant to blink top and essentially chain draw 1 onto every instant for free. That's pretty gross.

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Post by shermanido37 » 1 year ago

Kitten's lines are much better for spellslinger decks and artifact decks, kind of like a balanced Paradox Engine. I think that it's too difficult to count on having noncreature spells in Ephara for it to be consistent there, especially instant speed ones.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

shermanido37 wrote:
1 year ago
Kitten's lines are much better for spellslinger decks and artifact decks, kind of like a balanced Paradox Engine. I think that it's too difficult to count on having noncreature spells in Ephara for it to be consistent there, especially instant speed ones.
I think they might be better for spellslinger but it's still the most powerful thing to be doing with ephara if you go in for that kinda thing.

The trinket mage package is truly ridiculous. And trinket is great with jeweled lotus lines already (turn four trink for lotus and play ephara is a serious power play).

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Defiler of Dreams feels pretty powerful; pretty easy to set up a savage combo with Shrieking Drake where you pay 2 life to draw a card (build your own Necropotence), which goes infinite pretty easily with a lot of Soul Warden builds.

Not really sure it's for me or not, given it's not recruiterable, but it's sure very powerful.

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ISBPathfinder
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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

pokken wrote:
1 year ago
Defiler of Dreams feels pretty powerful; pretty easy to set up a savage combo with Shrieking Drake where you pay 2 life to draw a card (build your own Necropotence), which goes infinite pretty easily with a lot of Soul Warden builds.

Not really sure it's for me or not, given it's not recruiterable, but it's sure very powerful.
I think its close enough in cost that I would compare it against Consecrated Sphinx. I say that mostly because stat and mana wise its similar in cost but C Sphinx doesn't take any building around. I think its likely something that you would want more if your plan is to combo off using it rather than just as a card draw engine is my suspicion just given how it seems like a lot of work to get similar results as a Consecrated Sphinx.

Offhand I would probably say its not worth it unless you have some things that really support it already in your deck.
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
1 year ago
pokken wrote:
1 year ago
Defiler of Dreams feels pretty powerful; pretty easy to set up a savage combo with Shrieking Drake where you pay 2 life to draw a card (build your own Necropotence), which goes infinite pretty easily with a lot of Soul Warden builds.

Not really sure it's for me or not, given it's not recruiterable, but it's sure very powerful.
I think its close enough in cost that I would compare it against Consecrated Sphinx. I say that mostly because stat and mana wise its similar in cost but C Sphinx doesn't take any building around. I think its likely something that you would want more if your plan is to combo off using it rather than just as a card draw engine is my suspicion just given how it seems like a lot of work to get similar results as a Consecrated Sphinx.

Offhand I would probably say its not worth it unless you have some things that really support it already in your deck.
Yeah I am generally concluding it's not for me but there is a pretty major distinction between something you can cast and go off with immediately like this--because it lets you cheat on mana *and* cards not just cards.

The main thing preventing it from being super good is there's not really any redundancy for the effect; Shrieking Drake is a very good card in Ephara, but there're no other ways to reduce cost by U so you're basically on a not tutorable combo piece that you can't buildaround?

It definitely does something substantially different from Consecrated Sphinx to the point I wouldn't think of it in the same category of cards, but I think overall hte assessment is it's not really good enough period :)

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

Yea I agree its more of a cost reduction combo enabler than a draw engine. I just don't think the combo cards are really that good unless you have a bunch of them / tutors for them in the deck already and it just happens to fit. Its too weird janky for most normal decks though I suspect.
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

ISBPathfinder wrote:
1 year ago
Yea I agree its more of a cost reduction combo enabler than a draw engine. I just don't think the combo cards are really that good unless you have a bunch of them / tutors for them in the deck already and it just happens to fit. Its too weird janky for most normal decks though I suspect.
It would not be *that* hard to set up a Quickling type loop you could do at instant speed and turn into drawing 8+ cards a turn cycle, but it falls into that Skullclamp territory for me in this deck where things that just draw cards are not that great if they aren't progressing your board state -- something needs to draw cards with Ephara with zero setup to be good enough, like Whitemane Lion.

The death knell of this kinda card for me is probably that, that it requires too much setup. But I do think it would be very good in a lifegain shell.

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Post by ISBPathfinder » 1 year ago

I don't think a Quickling / Whitemane Lion setup is good enough to be better than just casting Consecrated Sphinx from the standpoint of the mana investment for it to be avalible immediately over Consecrated Sphinx. Its true that you could execute it immediately but you are talking about a 8-10+ mana sort of setup for that to have any return at all.

For me it gets back to why I don't like Deadeye Navigator essentially. The setup mana to execute it is just so much that if you can go infinite immeditately its probably fine but any fair use gets into having a rediculous load of mana on hand. These sort of things draw a lot of attention so I always look at what they can do immediately and or almost immediately rather than what they can do if you untap with them the next turn. The mana setup to do things right away is on the really high side and we are still talking 2+ card assembly here.
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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

stenn, paranoid partisan feels like as close to an autoinclude as we've seen in a long time. Both ramps into Ephara (choose enchantment) and then blinks for 3 mana in a way that dodges sweepers. I'll definitely find room for it.

Serra Redeemer adds the long missing second persist enabler (one that's pretty strong too!) as an option for that combo -- it makes it so we could be very redundant on altar combos. Adding a package of that, plus Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit and something like River Kelpie allows for some pretty flexible combo options. I still think Displacer Kitten combos are likely the way to go, but I always did like how out of nowhere the altar combos could be--and how well they play to the board.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Snapshot as of about 4/30/2022

Decklist By Type

Ephara's Flash and Taxes
Approximate Total Cost:


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Post by shermanido37 » 1 year ago

pokken wrote:
1 year ago
stenn, paranoid partisan feels like as close to an autoinclude as we've seen in a long time. Both ramps into Ephara (choose enchantment) and then blinks for 3 mana in a way that dodges sweepers. I'll definitely find room for it.

Serra Redeemer adds the long missing second persist enabler (one that's pretty strong too!) as an option for that combo -- it makes it so we could be very redundant on altar combos. Adding a package of that, plus Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit and something like River Kelpie allows for some pretty flexible combo options. I still think Displacer Kitten combos are likely the way to go, but I always did like how out of nowhere the altar combos could be--and how well they play to the board.
Definitely agree with you on Stenn. Shame you can't choose creature, but I think that after we name Enchantment we can name Instants since we usually run plenty of those.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

Wow Serra Paragon is very nice! Solid ca engine, fairly comparable to crucible in some respects.

Not sure I'll run it but I'll definitely think about it.

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Post by shermanido37 » 1 year ago

If it could cast our stuff on opponents' turns I would be kissing its feet. As it is, I don't think it passes for me in this deck.
However it will likely crack into competitive play in most constructed formats, so probably no danger of it being underappreciated.

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Post by pokken » 1 year ago

shermanido37 wrote:
1 year ago
If it could cast our stuff on opponents' turns I would be kissing its feet. As it is, I don't think it passes for me in this deck.
However it will likely crack into competitive play in most constructed formats, so probably no danger of it being underappreciated.
Slightly worse crucible on a body is nice but at 4 mana I think you're right it's too little. If it was once per player turn it'd be a shoe in.

As it is, meh? It's nice design space to see white getting though. Eventually maybe we will get a crucible bear.

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