Ephara, God of the Polis - Flash & Taxes

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pokken
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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Huh. Lots of interesting stuff this commander set.

Storm of Souls is a pretty nice bomb. Haunted Library is a really powerful enabler if you can the the volume of instant speed destruction high enough, and very cheap and muddleable. Neat stuff.

Sudden Salvation is another step in the Cosmic Intervention ramp strategy that actually goes infinite with Phyrexian Altar and Archaeomancer and something that makes tokens which is kinda cool. You could chain it each turn cycle too.

The really nice thing about it as a fetchland ramp strategy is that it lets you crack 3 fetches then cast it, which is very powerful. White as fetchland ramp is getting kinda legit.

Disorder in the Court and Occult Epiphany are both pretty interesting playable cards. Not sure I would want either one but playable.

Ethereal Investigator is kinda interesting. It's got a pretty high mana cost but you could chain Ephara around the table cracking clues, so that's kinda neat. Lots of potential angles there for Ephara triggering too.

Breath of the Sleepless is really strong for a spirits build for sure.

--

Of the stuff spoiled thus far I think I might play Sudden Salvation, but I'd be more inclined toward it if I were running a more sac outlet driven build that wants a lot of Brought Back effects with various altars. It's a shame that there is no real replacement for Phyrexian Altar at enabling those, so it becomes a kind of choke point. Ashnod's Altar and Altar of Dementia both do things but get quite mana intensive.

I could definitely see an Ephara build focused around trying to set up a 'loop' effect with stuff like Yorion, Sky Nomad and Eerie Interlude with all that stuff.

Overall, nothing slam dunk in there for me, especially since I'm contemplating such major changes to support Hullbreaker Horror.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

So sets are coming so fast I am struggling with attention span to do full set reviews, so I'll probably continue the format of just posting stuff that I see that's interesting. From Vow, the only card I am particularly super interested in is Hullbreaker Horror.

There's just so much tension with this card though. It does so many things I have been trying to cut back on, especially enjoying Mana Vault and other busted mana rocks so much. I feel like the deck is likely to be a lot better with the Tidespout Tyrant / Hullbreaker Horror build


--

A few other interesting rips in main vow set:

It's worth noting in general that I think there is 100% critical mass for an Ephara deck with spirits as the tribe. They do so much of what Ephara wants - bouncing, blinking, evasive, interactive, lots of flash, etc. Ephara's a great spirit commander too as incremental card advantage is something they miss.

Fleeting Spirit - this is probably the best card in the set for Ephara in general. It's a really cheap way to rummage heavily, and synergizes strongly with the Karmic Guide gameplan.

Savior of Ollenbock - This card is pretty easy to trigger and synergizes strongly with our deck, and can be used for instant speed with sac outlets, but without a haste enabler I think it's fundamentally too slow. This seems like a deck that's still playing Stoneforge Mystic could probably get a lot of mileage out of it.

Cemetery Protector - It's a reasonable card I guess, very good in decks that want to play the Monastery Mentor theme. Instants making tokens is great in Ephara. I hate that it costs 4 because 4 is probably the tightest slot in the deck already with powerhouses like Faerie Artisans and Thassa, Deep-Dwelling. The big problem with this card is it doesn't trigger on attacks like the other protectors so if you blink it, it's pretty bad. I don't think this is playable ultimately, outside of being an extra Mentor effect in those decks.

Welcoming Vampire - This card is pretty reasonable for a lot of Ephara decks. Incremental card advantage isn't really my jam but I could see it being great. The synergy with Whitemane Lion is significant.

Alchemist's Retrieval - This is a pretty reasonable spell. I don't play this kinda tempo stuff on non-creatures but it'd be very playable in a Monastery Mentor build.

Cemetery Illuminator - I don't think this card is quite autoinclude level, but it is probably the first card to play as grave hate since it has such a powerful upside. I would play it over any grave hate creature except Stonecloaker.

Repository Skaab - Another 4 mana Archaeomancer effect is definitely worth considering. I don't like that it isn't Reveillark or Recruiter of the Guard synergy, but it's really good with Emeria, the Sky Ruin setting up infinite turns in some decks with self-sac'ing which is nice.

Overcharged Amalgam - Second best card in the set for us, probably a borderline autoinclude. It's a shame it's X/3 not X/2. Instant speed sac outlet that counters stuff is nice.

Mirrorhall Mimic // Ghastly Mimicry - Clones have always been very good with Ephara, and this one is particularly good. It's strong solid card advantage being able to adding a Progenitor Mimic effect. Goes infinite with Time Warp and Archaeomancer. Putting it on Recruiter of the Guard is likely game over as well. I'm thinking harder about this than I was before, though it is quite inefficient.

Whispering Wizard - Another member of the Monastery Mentor squad, seems reasonable, is recruiterable. I don't love that it costs 4, compared to Young Pyromancer, but it does trigger on artifacts and enchantments which is nice.

Dishonorable Mentions

Faithbound Judge // Sinner's Judgment - This card is just, my god, so farking bad, such a waste of a white mythic that does basically nothing. This card just makes me angry to look at. It's going to be awful in constructed and a bulk mythic. Dustbin of history again.

Sigarda's Summons - I wish they would stop forcing this +1/+1 counter in every set. It's so depressing. It means at least a couple white cards that might otherwise be interesting are trash every set.

Voice of the Blessed - Hey another white rare used up on stupid counter themes.


--

In summation, lots of very playable cards, no real new autoincludes, and a huge test of my direction for the deck. I don't get to play the deck as much lately because a couple of my main playgroup really hate it, so not sure if I am going to be able to evolve it as fast I'd like.

I'd definitely pick up a Fleeting Spirit, Hullbreaker Horror and Cemetery Illuminator if you're collecting random ephara cards like I do, and maybe a Repository Skaab.

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Post by shermanido37 » 2 years ago

Cemetery Prowler should have been white. It's just plain unfair. I want to cheapen my creatures and other spells by 1 while attacking with a fat vigilant body! Not to mention that if any enchantments are exiled, Ephara costs 2 less to cast. Cemetery Illuminator and especially Cemetery Protector are just so underwhelming in comparison. Illuminator is the better of the two to be sure, but it's just a worse version of an already existing card - I probably just pay UU more and get Magus of the Future, so that I'm not limited to once per turn or certain card types. But god I feel like Protector is just cringe.

Frankly I kind of feel pushed towards a third spirit build of Ephara, but at that point it's just plain boring. Hopefully it'll be bad enough to pacify even the angriest and jankiest of nerds.

I also don't expect any other good Ephara stuff to come out until Dominaria, if even.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

shermanido37 wrote:
2 years ago
Cemetery Prowler should have been white. It's just plain unfair. I want to cheapen my creatures and other spells by 1 while attacking with a fat vigilant body! Not to mention that if any enchantments are exiled, Ephara costs 2 less to cast. Cemetery Illuminator and especially Cemetery Protector are just so underwhelming in comparison. Illuminator is the better of the two to be sure, but it's just a worse version of an already existing card - I probably just pay UU more and get Magus of the Future, so that I'm not limited to once per turn or certain card types. But god I feel like Protector is just cringe.

Frankly I kind of feel pushed towards a third spirit build of Ephara, but at that point it's just plain boring. Hopefully it'll be bad enough to pacify even the angriest and jankiest of nerds.

I also don't expect any other good Ephara stuff to come out until Dominaria, if even.

I've noticed personally that incidental grave hate is really powerful so I think Cemetery Illuminator is probably better than you're crediting it, but Cemetery Protector is just hotgarbage of the cycle.

But yeah Cemetery Prowler would be amazing in our deck. Make whitemane lion cheaper, etc etc. The funny thing is it's pretty mediocre for a green spell but it'd be a great white spell? :P Weird stuff.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Had my first game in a while with this deck and I kept a turn two ephara that needed to draw a third land to get firing and didn't. Lost to ur dragon turn 3 sneak attacking in a drakuseth which wiped my soulherder and then missed fourth land and then he sneak attacked a dromoka in denying me the opportunity to mana drain back into the game.

Just a rough line not really any conclusions to draw except that it groups constant whining about ephara being too strong is likely fading away. Every time I play it these days I'm not fast enough.

I feel like it's hullbreaker horror time :)

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Post by shermanido37 » 2 years ago

Just saying that Sneak Attack being a problem is usually mitigated by both Hushwing Gryff effects and Containment Priest. Though only the latter would have truly mattered in your case.
But if that's the consistent power level of your group there is absolutely nothing to fear bringing Hullbreaker Horror combos.

And yeah, I think that I'll definitely reconsider Cemetery Illuminator. While it's no Rest in Peace on a stick, it's definitely strong versus single target reanimation et al. To be certain, though, the only Ephara build that will want this guy is a build with a lot of flash hatebears, since you want to cast one spell per turn with it, and since they need to share a card type with the exiled card - which will most likely be a creature.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Honestly the state of dragons is making me consider bringing containment priest back. It's so heavy on the cheat into play effects.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

The Hullbreaker Horror Update!

So I still have a lot of cards I want to change out, but here's where I am moving for the HBH update.

CUT ADD
The only kind of tangential change is cutting my curve down a little with Fleeting Spirit in for Glorious Protector. Protector is solid, but I think I have 1 or 2 too many four drops, so it's on the bubble. Right now I am more in trouble from alpha strikes than sweepers, so Selfless Squire stays for now.

The Hullbreaker Horror package turned into a much bigger todo than I expected, with cards like Trinket Mage becoming really important.

For now I am leaving the end step blinkers because of their strong synergy with some of my ETB guys. I did not find room for Overcharged Amalgam which I will be thinking about for a while. Its utility goes down as I have fewer things that recur stuff but it's possibly still the right move. 4 drops are just so hard to get into the deck these days.

I'm pretty confident of Fleeting Spirit being amazing, likely to be the strongest of the blinkers - it's half the mana of Saltskitter but guarantees a rummage every time and protects itself. The velocity of guaranteed digging +4 every turn for 2 mana just feels like too much, especially since I have Karmic Guide and Body Double to get work done.

As much as I enjoyed not being so heavy on mana rocks, it is just the right thing to be doing with Hullbreaker Horror and I think Horror is probably the strongest of the winconditions for ephara.

Sevinne's Reclamation stays in the game for the ability to tutor for 2 mana rocks and it to guarantee hullbreaker kill.

Pretty excited to try this out :)

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Holy crap I think I ruined this deck, glad I backed up a copy :P

I played 2 games tonight, won one, but lost the other. The one I lost had a *turn one* ephara off of Ponder into Mox Diamond Jeweled Lotus, but somehow missed my 3rd landdrop for *three turns* despite having a Sensei's Divining Top and two ephara triggers by turn 3 off of Solitude and Gilded Drake taking Urza, Lord High Artificer. To be fair I did hork myself pretty bad this game by not killing Metalworker with solitude, but Urza had gone bananas and I made a bad choice to preserve my lifetotal and not registering his skullclamp.

The game I won was a 12 turn slog where I eventually won by sticking a Intuition into tidespouts. I didn't actually have the combo but I had 10 Field of the Dead zombies and they couldn't beat Winds of Abandon + Hullbreaker Horror backup with Venser, Shaper Savant in hand.

The Hullbreaker Horror combo is just so infinitely unutterably awkward to stick. The card is *fine* if you just get it with Whitemane Lion or something, but my deck is just not efficient enough to cast it and then be able to control the board. Needing basically 5 pieces (rock, rock, rock, recastable creature) to win is just so difficult.

I actually turned down trying to stick the Tidespout Tyrant Mana Crypt Sol Ring line early in the game because I didn't have the colored mana rock to go off, and I probably should have just run it out and saw what happened I guess.

Thassa, Deep-Dwelling Plus Spellseeker were really the all stars of the game and I was able to get 3 spellseeker triggers in one turn which locked it up. Knight of the White Orchid was pretty good too, blinking 4 or so times to get Emeria, the Sky Ruin online to renaimate the Hullbreaker Horror at the end.

Fundamentally, I think that I just do not like the swinginess of the mana rocks and this deck is in a damn rough spot right now where the only way I win is resolving a bunch of sweepers. In my victory I cast Cyclonic Rift, 2x Supreme Verdict, and Winds of Abandon. It's true that repeated sweepers is one of my win conditions, but it takes so damn long to close games with the way things are set up now.

No one really enjoyed this game much either which was a big red flag.

The one bright spot was that Fleeting Spirit was frigging amazing. I rummaged about 10 times in this game and it definitely made the difference between victory and defeat, ensuring I hit my land drops turn after turn and letting me dig through an absolutely awful top lock where I shuffled four times and saw 8 lands and Brainstorm before finally breaking the lock and digging into Spellseeker for the W.

--

There is just so much tension in win conditions in this deck. Making infinite mana is pretty darn easy -- Palinchron, Deadeye Navigator, Peregrine Drake, even Cloud of Faeries and Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, and these cards do an awful lot with the gameplan by untapping lands. But there are not that great ways to use that infinite mana.

Blinking Archaeomancer and Spellseeker is a great way to close the game with infinite turns, and those effects align very well with what the deck is trying to do.

Karmic Guide and Reveillark combos are feeling slightly too slow these days, with Altar of Dementia having too much pressure on being the only way to really win (to win with Phyrexian Altar + requires other pieces in play, and Blasting Station is bloody hindering awkward as a card).

Heliod, Sun-Crowned + Walking Ballista is a nice compact easy to find combo, but is very vulnerable in that neither piece is replaceable. And Walking Ballista has the additional weakness of being very hard to recur without special purpose cards that don't synergize well with the rest of the deck.

I don't think I can make this deck close games without combos in my modern meta, but I really want the combo journey to be organic, and nothing is quite right. I feel like I need either a lot more combo pieces or a lot more interaction and the level of interaction the deck already brings is quite oppressive at times.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

So I think my next step is to try the Time Warp package and see how that goes. If none of that works to get me to a happy place I'm going to do something more drastic. The mana rocks were very, very unsatisfying. It kept me off of Hour of Revelation because I had to worry bout killing my rocks for combo time, and it was so sad.

I think I might add Mistveil Plains back in so that Spellseeker + Mystical Tutor + Thassa, Deep-Dwelling is a combo with.


first draft--

cut
1 Mana vault
1 azorius signet
1 chrome mox
1 tidespout tyrant
1 hullbreaker horror
1 trinket mage
1 Selfless Squire

add
1 Temporal Manipulation
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Ornithopter of Paradise
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Agent of Treachery
1 Nexus of Fate
1 Mistveil Plains

When my strixhaven foil Time Warp ** How is this only $16?? ** gets here I'll be adding Nexus of Fate and Time Walk somehow, and we'll see how that goes. It seems like end step nexus ought to close out a lot of games.

The warps naturally seem very strong with Soulherder effects as well and those are some of my favorite things.

The "combos":

Archaeomancer + Ephemerate | Soulherder | Thassa, Deep-Dwelling + Time Warp
-Can also sub online Emeria, the Sky Ruin + Phyrexian Altar

Mistveil Plains (or any white fetchland) + Soulherder | Thassa, Deep-Dwelling + Spellseeker
-blink spellseeker get Mystical Tutor, plains the tutor, draw Nexus of Fate, cast, repeat

Because Phyrexian Altar is so good for allowing spikes of mana (and makes infinite mana with a few things), I added it to enable the Brought Back combo (which requires <any bomb ETB creature> + Brought Back + Archaeomancer + Phyrexian Altar, which should be reasonably easy to set up).

Not 100% sure I want to keep that, and I may need to get another Archaeomancer effect, but my current thought is that I should be able to substitute Spellseeker for it with slightly different lines - and if my Mystical Tutor or Nexus of Fate is gone I can just present repeated Cyclonic Rift as a wincon.

SpellseekerEphemerateMystical Tutor + Enlightened Tutor (for Thassa, Deep-Dwelling) should still spell good game most of the time, so that's probably the primary wincondition, with Recruiter of the Guard being the first piece there. Hopefully it's efficient enough.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Had a pretty good game tonight; I got to do the Nexus of Fate trick but Niv-Mizzet, Parun burned me out of counterspells and I got dragoned.

I'm not sure what the exact issue is tbh, feels like I might be short a removal spell or two? Drakuseth, Maw of Flames ruined my day. I did have an opportunity to go off early game off of a Nexus of Fate combo, but Niv bluffed countermagic and I should have just went for it I think.

Deck feels like it's playing smoothly with this package but I'm just super rusty at doing the right things, and maybe need to add a Path to Exile or something? I dunno what exactly, but it always feels like I get punked by a dragons.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Woof, super early spoiler but that white dragon is a beast :) Pretty lame that it doesn't do lands like Genesis Wave though.

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

That does seem pretty solid. I don't care about the second mode, but the first one looks alright. Lands would be nice though it continues with white not being able to straight up ramp which I guess is fair. The "total value" is disappointing though. I mean, how often are we going to get more than one permanent out of this if we can't get lands? In my list, for example, I only have 3 permanents with Mana Value 1 or less and 10 with Mana Value of 2 (though I don't really want to hit Snapcaster Mage off this). While we are certainly looking at enough cards to probably get 2 permanents fairly often, we aren't likely to get any more than that and the times when we get a Gilded Drake and an Eldrazi Displacer and have to choose because we can't get both seems frustrating.

It might be better than I am giving it credit for, but I think there are definitely concerns over its limitations.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

WizardMN wrote:
2 years ago
That does seem pretty solid. I don't care about the second mode, but the first one looks alright. Lands would be nice though it continues with white not being able to straight up ramp which I guess is fair. The "total value" is disappointing though. I mean, how often are we going to get more than one permanent out of this if we can't get lands? In my list, for example, I only have 3 permanents with Mana Value 1 or less and 10 with Mana Value of 2 (though I don't really want to hit Snapcaster Mage off this). While we are certainly looking at enough cards to probably get 2 permanents fairly often, we aren't likely to get any more than that and the times when we get a Gilded Drake and an Eldrazi Displacer and have to choose because we can't get both seems frustrating.

It might be better than I am giving it credit for, but I think there are definitely concerns over its limitations.
Yeah that's true, total mana 4 or less is kinda limiting. My brain skipped over the "total" and it seemed really good.

Interestingly I think having access to the double anthem mode is kinda nice. That's a lot of power if you're playing tokens.

I don't think it's quite playable in my build with so many non-permanents and not hitting lands after reflection, but has some a decent applications.

--

The blue one seems potentially crazy if it's more than one instant/sorcery :P but if it's just up to one it's probably average. That said, it might be the best second copy of Archaeomancer we could get if you're running lots of sac outlets anyway.

Neat stuff either way :)

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

I really don't hate The Wandering Emperor despite four drop glut. Guaranteeing two cards in short succession is pretty good, and then also potentially being a combat trick (either making a surprise blocker, making one of your things block profitably, or killing an attacker).

Definitely not awful.

Kairi, the Swirling Sky seems very strong. Being a death effect takes some more work to combo with, needing a Karmic Guide plus a blink effect or smething, but that might work out OK? Or Emeria, the Sky Ruin online does it too.

Probably worth thinking about if there're good lines around that.
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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

I agree that she has potential and I also agree the 4 drop slot is pretty packed. I think my main concern is that what she does (beyond triggering Ephara) seems mediocre. 4 mana to get 2 creatures isn't the worst but isn't exactly stellar. Or using her "ultimate" means we need to go a few turns without getting a creature at all. I do think the first ability isn't really that great but perhaps as a combat trick it isn't terrible. I am certainly open to trying her out, but she seems middling at best.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Tameshi, Reality Architect seems decent, it's mostly just another one of those "sometimes make Ephara more draw card" things like that naiad that triggers on spells in other ppl's turns, etc.

But that return a land rider is pretty interesting, it turns Mystic Sanctuary into a combo card with extra turn spells, which is pretty sick, but it's got a number of weird hops you have to do. You've got to always have a target of course. Meh.

I think it's probably more for an enchantment/artifacty ephara deck with more of those things, but it's definitely cool.

I do like that Tameshi triggers on other people's bounces too, so you can get some serious value going on there. with a lot of bouncing.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Ooh, The Reality Chip is cool! It's triggering creature, and it's useful later? neat.

Looks like a potentially super fun monoblue control commander too lol.

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

I think Tameshi triggering on things being put into opponent's hands is pretty important and bumps up the card in my opinion. I won't go as far as to say it deserves a spot in the deck, but it does seem pretty interesting for a blue based tempo deck that can replace cards that are bouncing things to opponents' hands.

The Reality Chip is interesting too. It effectively gives you at least 1 extra card per turn and, as you said, it triggers Ephara which is good. I am not sure if a Magus of the Future effect is really warranted here though. Sure, it splits up the cost pretty nice, but I am not sure I would really want the effect.

I do agree it probably works as a mono blue commander.

Another card I saw was The Restoration of Eiganjo. It is 3 mana which isn't ideal, but it is a form of ramp if we want it while also allowing for other reanimation. Getting a land first and then reanimating Gilded Drake seems pretty good. The back side also triggering Ephara every turn is nice. I wouldn't say the back side would be enough on its own to fit in here, but I think the whole package just might.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Feels not far off from another functional copy of cultivate. I like it

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Post by shermanido37 » 2 years ago

The white dragon is much better for us than the blue dragon, and still probably won't find a spot in my deck.
Tameshi probably wants to be a commander more than it wants to be in other decks.
Reality Chip is definitely cute, and I love that it gives us a reason to add Stoneforge.
Restoration of Eiganjo looks pretty decent.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

imperial recovery unit seems very decent way to spend 3 mana. Probably some cool loops in there.

It's a little narrow. Like I figure it could reanimate them or allow lands or be cmc 3 but still quite cool design space.

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Post by shermanido37 » 2 years ago

If I'd want an attacking vehicle, I'd probably pick Skysovereign as repeatable removal. It has higher crew and cost, but is much more likely to survive combat and provides immediate value. A 3/4 isn't very effective in EDH.

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Post by pokken » 2 years ago

Some very cool stuff in the new set -- Drumbellower is amazing with all the tap to make tokens guys, and tutorable, so pretty easy to set up Thraben Doomsayer effects (of which there are a few).

Lots and lots of effects to enable Ephara Affinity too which is kinda cool.

Aerial Surveyor is very decent, definitely worth considering.


I also love Swift Reconguration just for the design space, super fun for an enchantress deck removal slot.

Imposter Mech is likely very good; not triggering Ephara is problematic, but triggering all the ETBs and dodging sweepers is nice.

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Post by WizardMN » 2 years ago

I looked at Aerial Surveyor as well but a) it doesn't trigger Ephara and b) it seems too close to Cartographer's Hawk . It can swing every turn and triggers on attack rather than damage, which is great, but it also requires another creature, with 3 2 power no less, to make it work. I am not sure if it quite crosses the threshold.
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