Memnarch, Stealer of Games

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benjameenbear
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Post by benjameenbear » 2 years ago

I agree. Memnarch provides a lot of value in case the game goes long and your primary combo line fizzles out.

Sigh, I miss Paradox Engine...

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insomnia
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Post by insomnia » 2 years ago

[mention]benjameenbear[/mention] i also miss paradox

i have another curiosity, in a long game incidentally

i stole most things in the game (xmage) causing two players to quit from being under Back to Basics lockdown and theft of all mana artifacts and non basic lands (combo's nowhere to be found), however i left one gold myr on the board and the remaining player stacked it with aura's till it was a 24/24 myr that killed me.

what i found odd was that i couldnt steal the aura's (one of them was protection from creatures the others just buffed its power) i could turn them into artifacts but not gain control of them, interestingly xmage did allow me to target them to gain control but then didnt remove the aura's when the stack resolved.

i would of thought if protection from creatures was preventing gain control of aura then i wouldnt of been able to turn them into artifacts either.

so erm, weird

also too high CMC for your deck but i am finding Ward of Bones really helps against aggro decks.

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lyonhaert
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Post by lyonhaert » 2 years ago

insomnia wrote:
2 years ago
what i found odd was that i couldnt steal the aura's (one of them was protection from creatures the others just buffed its power) i could turn them into artifacts but not gain control of them, interestingly xmage did allow me to target them to gain control but then didnt remove the aura's when the stack resolved.

i would of thought if protection from creatures was preventing gain control of aura then i wouldnt of been able to turn them into artifacts either.
Did the aura(s) have protection from creatures, or was one of them granting the enchanted creature that protection?

Also, typically gaining control of auras would do nothing (they'll stay attached), unless you have something else you can do with them. This is a trick used in Zedruu voltron decks in which you put auras on the commander and then donate them to opponents' control. They stay on Zedruu but draw you cards.

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insomnia
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Post by insomnia » 2 years ago

thanks for getting back[mention]lyonhaert[/mention] the aura's had no protection and could be targeted, inc turning into artifact aura's however when attempted theft they did seem to flicker so maybe they just reattached immediate, i was expecting them to either fizzle or allow attach to memnarch.

i was slightly gutted to be killed by gold myr (even a 24/24 myr), especially as i could of stolen it earlier when the stax was restraining the player more.

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Post by MuzzleMuffin » 2 years ago

What do we think of Mystic Sancuary? I've been reading that it can create some infinite loops with extra turn effects/Mana Breach. Would we ever run this for shear value? We can search it with fetches.


Mystic Sanctuary
Land - Island
~ enters the battlefield tapped unless you control three or more Islands.
When ~ enters the battlefield, if it enters untapped, choose target instant or sorcery card in your graveyard. You may put that card on top of your library


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benjameenbear
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Post by benjameenbear » 2 years ago

Sorry for my absence from the forums, y'all. Real life stuff, including getting laid off, have consumed me for the past 2-3 weeks.

In regards to the new content, I'll be doing a review shortly. There's VERY little that's worth consideration and will make it into the decklist, but Castle Vantress isn't terrible. The opportunity cost is slight and the effect isn't terrible, albeit expensive. I think it's a fine inclusion for Memnarch.

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insomnia
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Post by insomnia » 2 years ago

that is unfortunate :poop:, wish you speed in finding replacement work

on new content, i have been considering Gadwick, the Wizened after fighting a mono blue deck on Arena, kept tapping my creatures (i am playing the gates deck) and the late game draw appeared great

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benjameenbear
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Post by benjameenbear » 1 year ago

After an extended hiatus (which will sadly still continue until I can find full-time work), I just wanted to chime in and let everyone know that I'm alive and that I've been keeping a light pulse of the new cards and spoilers. Nothing has really impressed me except the new Mystic Sanctuary, so that will be an easy slot in since you can straight up replace an Island with it.

I did have a chance to play a game with my wife recently and I was able to cast a Mass Manipulation for X = 4. It was glorious to steal out her horde from underneath her... The Manipulation was added just as a "Why the hell not it's Vorthos" kicks. It's probably terrible otherwise, heh.

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Post by Wraith223 » 1 year ago

Hey fellow blue lovers!
I have been playing more and found that we need more board wipes.

card I want to try!
Overburden
We have a lot of bounce abilities and thought it would be hilarious. I am seeing major creatures decks built of big creatures or mass tokens. Seems like a cheap control on the mana.

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insomnia
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Post by insomnia » 1 year ago

benjameenbear wrote:
1 year ago
Nothing has really impressed me except the new Mystic Sanctuary
good find
Wraith223 wrote:
1 year ago
card I want to try!
Overburden
We have a lot of bounce abilities and thought it would be hilarious. I am seeing major creatures decks built of big creatures or mass tokens. Seems like a cheap control on the mana.
that is brilliant and highly amusing

on amusing i have added Telepathy which removes a degree of suprise from the game

i have also been building Tuvasa the Sunlit and it contains alot of cards Memnarch wouldnt fully appreciate such as Energy Flux and Stony Silence

merry christmas everyone, hope your getting a handle on the work situation bear

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benjameenbear
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Post by benjameenbear » 1 year ago

I got a full-time offer of employment! So I'll be back to being an active participant on these forums again. I've got a lot to catch up on for sure, so give me a bit of time to digest everything and I'll hopefully get back to everyone shortly!

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Post by benjameenbear » 1 year ago

There's a pretty decent set of cards for mono-Blue to consider for their decks. Set review for Theros is below!

Return to Theros Set Review
  • Ashiok's Erasure - while it's cool that they printed a Counterspell effect on a Flash-chantment, I don't think paying 4 mana to do so makes it any better unless you're playing opponents who run the same cards between their decks. Meh.
  • Thassa's Intervention - I personally look at this as a modal Dig Through Time, which is definitely not a bad card. I think that this spell is actually worth trying out since it has utility at any point in the game, being especially good in the T3-T6 range.
  • Thassa's Oracle - frankly, I don't see a reason NOT to jam this Fish into any cEDH deck. A lot of win conditions draw your library out and Thassa makes a for a clean win while also providing card selection in the early game. Get a copy, jam it into your decks, and literally win.
  • Whirlwind Denial - this is great flavor text and is a budget sort of Trickbind effect that I think will actually be pretty decent. I like it.
  • Nyx Lotus - this card is actually a trap. It's ETB tapped makes it a liability and this deck frankly doesn't play enough devotion to make the Lotus really powerful like it could be.

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Post by benjameenbear » 1 year ago

I forgot about Mystic Sanctuary in my set review along with most of Eldraine. Here's my take on Eldraine:
  • Mystic Sanctuary - is pretty good and has a small opportunity cost to recur a key counterspell or draw spell. Run it and fetch when needed.
  • Emry, Lurker of the Loch - I think that this card is quietly pretty good. Being able to recur some Stax pieces or mana rocks is always a good thing. I'd definitely give this Mergirl a try.
  • Midnight Clock - this seems like some interesting tech to sneak another draw 7 effect for when the game goes long. I wish it didn't cost 3 mana though, so I'm likely to pass on it.
  • Mystical Dispute - a very good counterspell depending on your meta... which is likely going to be heavy blue anyways, so I think that this is an acceptable card to run in your main list.
  • Didn't Say Please - a hilarious counterspell, haha.
  • Witching Well - I think this card is an excellent add. It synergizes beautifully with Urza and acts as a great draw fixer that can be a Divination when needed. Pick up some copies of this card because it's an excellent card.
  • Castle Vantress - aagain, the opportunity cost to include this card is marginal. I think it's a decent way to ensure card quality, so it gets a respectable nod from me.

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Post by UnNamed1 » 1 year ago

I find it very interesting that this list is very similar to my Urza list. This just solidifies my thinking that I would be able to change Urza to be Memnarch if people were scared of Urza as a commander. Both Urza and Memnarch love infinite mana, but use it in different ways. Having both on the board at once is definitely fun!

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Post by benjameenbear » 1 year ago

Very much agreed. Memnarch gets a lot of derision when people take a look at him... But they aren't laughing when the game stretches out into T6-T7 and you suddenly have an active Memnarch that they don't have removal for. Particularly with Flash Hulk out of the meta, I think Memnarch has a chance to shine as a fringe cEDH card since he plays into the late-game so well.

Something to consider may be Zur's Weirding as a way to keep hands deprived of relevant answers to Memnarch so that the window to take advantage of his activated abilities is higher. I remember seeing the Weirding in a Muldrotha deck and thinking "Wow, that card is fantastic alongside a Commander that generates real card advantage". Memnarch stealing your opponent's cards definitely constitutes as real card advantage in my opinion.

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Post by UnNamed1 » 1 year ago

benjameenbear wrote:
1 year ago
Very much agreed. Memnarch gets a lot of derision when people take a look at him... But they aren't laughing when the game stretches out into T6-T7 and you suddenly have an active Memnarch that they don't have removal for. Particularly with Flash Hulk out of the meta, I think Memnarch has a chance to shine as a fringe cEDH card since he plays into the late-game so well.

Something to consider may be Zur's Weirding as a way to keep hands deprived of relevant answers to Memnarch so that the window to take advantage of his activated abilities is higher. I remember seeing the Weirding in a Muldrotha deck and thinking "Wow, that card is fantastic alongside a Commander that generates real card advantage". Memnarch stealing your opponent's cards definitely constitutes as real card advantage in my opinion.
Hitting Memnarch off Urza with Iso/Dramatic in hand is a beautiful thing. If you care to look here is my Urza list: https://archidekt.com/decks/486552#Urza_Artifacts. I plan on doing an official decklist eventually. I'm currently in the process of writing my TnT Primer (hopefully).

Urza should make a comeback for cEDH but I'm not sure about Memnarch, I don't have the experience there.

Zur's Weirding is such a weird card....no pun intended. I don't know that I am willing to sacrifice the information in my hand.

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Post by benjameenbear » 1 year ago

I think the sacrifice of information is worth being able to control who can kill/develop their own board state. The nice thing about Memnarch is that you don't need cards in your hand in order to win the game with his abilities with an active Weirding. Given enough time, and no meaningful interaction, you can eventually steal every opponent's mana sources for the rest of the game and win via combat damage. I think this avenue is worth exploring personally.

I'm curious as to what your TnT Primer will be about. Link it up when you can.

Your Urza list looks like a lot of fun but seems short in the Card Advantage department. Are you just depending on Urza's ability to feed you new cards? Also, Ugin the Ineffable seems like a good choice for you as well.

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Post by UnNamed1 » 1 year ago

benjameenbear wrote:
1 year ago
I think the sacrifice of information is worth being able to control who can kill/develop their own board state. The nice thing about Memnarch is that you don't need cards in your hand in order to win the game with his abilities with an active Weirding. Given enough time, and no meaningful interaction, you can eventually steal every opponent's mana sources for the rest of the game and win via combat damage. I think this avenue is worth exploring personally.

I'm curious as to what your TnT Primer will be about. Link it up when you can.

Your Urza list looks like a lot of fun but seems short in the Card Advantage department. Are you just depending on Urza's ability to feed you new cards? Also, Ugin the Ineffable seems like a good choice for you as well.
Hmm, that's a good point, Memnarch does represent a sizable threat and with the information you can best make decisions on what to steal. However, your opponents will also have the information of when you don't have the interaction. It's definitely worth exploring, I might through a copy in and see what happens.

I will for sure be posting it. RL got in the way and its saved in my drafts right now.

Card advantage is tricky. Obviously my Urza build isn't traditional, however is a lot of fun. I actually have been able to consistently draw 3 cards in my upkeep due to Howling Mine and Padeem, Consul of Innovation. Ugin was in originally, but it is a lot of resources to commit initially at a point where most my artifacts are already free or heavily reduced.

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Post by benjameenbear » 1 year ago

@UnNamed1 While you're correct in that your opponents also have perfect information about what you do or don't have, I don't think it should particularly matter. The ideal time to deploy Zur's Weirding is when you have a few pieces of protection in hand or maybe a combo piece or two to deploy. The Weirding is a great way to guarantee a certain board state since you and other players can control what each opponent is drawing and maintain an equilibrium with what's on board.

The nice thing about Memnarch being in the Command Zone is that he breaks these kind of equilibrium Board states. The best kind of game for Memnarch to shine in is when Card Advantage is down across the board so that you can start stealing on-board resources with minimal risk. Given enough time (usually 2-3 turn cycles of static/low-quality Card Advantage), Memnarch's ability will overtake the game since he can steal out each opponent's board state and negate their Card Advantage through resource disparity. You might be drawing 3+ cards per turn but you can only cast 1 card per turn? That sounds like a winning time in my mind.

The more I think about it, the more I like Zur's Weirding. I'm going to give it a shot and see how it goes.

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Post by UnNamed1 » 1 year ago

benjameenbear wrote:
1 year ago
UnNamed1 While you're correct in that your opponents also have perfect information about what you do or don't have, I don't think it should particularly matter. The ideal time to deploy Zur's Weirding is when you have a few pieces of protection in hand or maybe a combo piece or two to deploy. The Weirding is a great way to guarantee a certain board state since you and other players can control what each opponent is drawing and maintain an equilibrium with what's on board.

...

The more I think about it, the more I like Zur's Weirding. I'm going to give it a shot and see how it goes.
I just like to keep information to myself unless it pertains to changing the board state in such a way that I can come out on top. I'm definitely interested in how Zur's Weirding turn's out for you, but I don't think it will really fit into any of my builds.

Also, my apologies on the TNT Primer. I was working diligently at it, and actually lost interest in the deck over the last couple weeks. As a result, pretty much my entire commander collection has changed, only Urza remains. My new cEDH deck has moved to be Elsha of the Infinite. It is built a lot like my TNT but almost more consistent. We will see in the long run though. I will go ahead an post the TnT decklist and go over the deck, but not in a primer format anymore.

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Post by benjameenbear » 1 year ago

Set Review for M21.
  • Teferi's Ageless Insight - this is a VERY solid and budget Consecrated Sphinx. I like it a lot personally because of the various instant speed draw effects that are in blue. I definitely want to give it a shot in my lists and see how it performs.
  • Teferi, Master of Time - wow. Activating his ability each turn? Really, WOTC? Have we not learned the lessons of Jace... Anyways, a solid card that actually might be a solid 'walker in EDH. I like it, but I don't think I'll run it.
  • Discontinuity - um, I guess? I have no real opinions on why they made it cost so much less. I suppose it has applications for End the Game effects like the newly printed Nine Lives? Meh.
  • Barrin, Tolarian Archmage - a very interesting Legend. I think it's not bad, but not incredible. It requires a little bit more of a build-around approach but could be very powerful in the right list. Perhaps it's time to dust off the Wizard sub-theme again...
  • Ghostly Pilferer - I think this is an excellent card for EDH. Things are being cast from outside of hands all the time: Command Zone. I recommend acquiring several copies of the card since it is a great draw engine and can draw cards when you untap it. It's of course much better in Tymna lists, but it's still a great card.
  • See the Truth - with Future Sight in the list, this is a great card. However, this card is incredible in Elsha. It's not bad and I would recommend getting a copy before it probably spikes.
  • Sublime Epiphany - it looks like they attempted to fix Cryptic Command... and failed. 6 CMC with no tap-down ability immediately pushes it out of any consideration for me.
  • Miscast - depending on what you play against most frequently, this could be an excellent card for your list.
  • Ugin, the Spirit Dragon - this is a welcome reprint. $30ish dollars is better than the $55ish it was at.
  • Chromatic Orrery - cool card, won't run it. 7 CMC is too much and the tap ability is very meh with a colorless Commander. I can see it doing work though when properly built around.
And that's it. Frankly, it was a better set than I thought it would be, and certainly better for this list than Commander 2020. The only card from that set worth mentioning is Fierce Guardianship and it's good for obvious reasons. I'm good.

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insomnia
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Post by insomnia » 1 year ago

hi ben, great thoughts on the new blue cards, i play enchantress aswell as memnarch in paper, so for me Teferi's Ageless Insight literally doubles the draw power of Argothian Enchantress and co, so buzzed about that one.

your list has changed from when i last looked (admitedly awhile ago) and am pretty sure only Duplicant was present, maybe i dont remember properly
Duplicant
Spine of Ish Sah
Meteor Golem
Agent of Treachery
but i get why the agent is worthwhile (extra draw since we are a theft deck) but these all have a very high CMC, so i am suprised to see all four when i thought our main source of removal was via Memnarch stealing stuff and counters.

one card i have found amazing in Memnarch is Arcane Lighthouse allowing for the theft of shrouded and hexproof.

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Post by benjameenbear » 1 year ago

I'm planning on doing an overhaul of the deck and Primer soon, so stay tuned for that. With the relative slowing down with Flash banned (praise the Lord), there are more opportunities to resolve and protect a Memnarch and accrue crazy advantage. For example, I've been seriously reconsidering Unwinding Clock again to emulate Seedborn Muse since it's so easily tutored for and can catapult the deck so far ahead.

Yes, the cards you listed are certainly high on the CMC list and I wouldn't include them for cEDH play. For high-powered/casual play, definitely.

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Post by Wraith223 » 1 year ago

Memnarch did its' thing tonight. Want to play it once in a while. Pod basically made me the enemy immediately. Fine. I board wiped twice, facing cat/dogs, Zurgo, and Golos. Their stuff tried to blow up mine and attacks where very high, so I burned cards to control it. Stuck a Rhistic study mid game and some mana rocks early to make it work with a one land opening hand. Many turns of disruption to defend I get lands to acceptable levels. After Rifting at end of opponents turn, I played back to basics on my turn to slow the tide of attatcks down. 2 opponents immediately scooped and the cat/dogs kept going with more attempted destroy artifacts. Fine. I stopped only him casting felondar Soverign. WTH......out of no where to.
On my turn, I cast shackles and Memnarch as I have ample lands/rocks to sort of hold my ground. He scoops and I get yelled at for playing stax and having deck above 7 power according to them.
Let me get this straight....I am the bad guy for stopping zurgo trying to hit me for 14 a turn with a sword and double strike, trying to stop Golos with soon to be 20 lands out and near win with mazes end, and cat/dogs %$#% creatures/removal with a turn 4 Ajani emblem (can only deal one damage to him) with an attempted surprise felondar sovereign.
I was told to never bring that deck before them again or they walk away from the pod for having 2 early mana rocks, 2 board wipes, 2 searches, 2 counter spells, back to basics, and memnarch. Fruit for thought, I stopped 2 people from instant winning and another from hitting me for death by commander damage. I got yelled at for it....not all of want to play potato head decks of turn creatures sideways or one card plays to win. Memnarch is not even a top tier deck. It's disheartening to play your literal favorite deck and get yelled at for it. I built it for one reason. I got REALLY tired of playing against potato heads attacking me at random for NO tactical reason. There will be a serious board presence from an opponent and the potato head attacks me instead of working together to survive or at least back stab later. It happens to me a lot and it makes me question life. I built memnarch to stop that stupid play style. I love stax cause it makes players think. Gives me time to respond to players who buy lottery tickets for retirement planning.
Tonight, I used teeg deck for a low powers commander pod. The dogs/cat deck went wild and I had to take it head on. Fine, the opponent across decides to all out attack me instead of helping take it down as he was going off literally only because he wanted to see cat/dogs win. :/ if you are going to be playing 2 headed giant, let the rest of the pod know....otherwise you get stax cause the players with brain power enjoy a competitive match instead of playing with a bunch of Carls (military reference).
Now I am down a play group as they are probably going archenemy me every game now even though I nearly stopped them from playing instant winning turns, barely.
My mind works so hard to build decks that solve problems but I run into players who get mad at me for playing decks that are more utility than a shovel.
Rant over.
Depressed as magic is my stress relief.

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