The DCC Discussion Thread

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bravelion83
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Post by bravelion83 » 1 year ago

I still don't understand the difference with morph. Lurk is just the first part of morph with a separate effect doing the other part. That card is perfectly equivalent to:

Cavern Horror
Creature – Horror (U)
Menace
Morph BB (You may cast this card face down as a 2/2 creature for 3. Turn it face up any time for its morph cost.)
You may turn Cavern Horror face up only if an opponent is attacking you with exactly one creature.
When Cavern Horror is turned face up, attacking player sacrifices a creature that's attacking you.
4/4

Perfectly functionally equivalent. If I haven't made some mistakes of course...
Yes, your version is shorter, but lurk is just morph in disguise. That's why I haven't voted for it. We already have it, only under a different name.
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Post by slimytrout » 1 year ago

Well, it's a little odd to have reminder text to have reminder text saying Turn it face up any time for its morph cost if that's not true :).

And yes, I don't disagree with you, but the same thing could be said of various mechanics just being different versions of kicker. I think that it's a different enough thing -- morphs that can only be turned face up when a condition is met -- that it would need a new name if it was put in a set, plus I wanted it to have a more specific flavor of something that's waiting for you in the dark, so I called it lurk. After all, they gave megamorph a new (terrible) name, even though it's much more similar to morph than lurk is.

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Post by RattingRots » 1 year ago

slimytrout wrote:
1 year ago
RattingRots wrote:
1 year ago
slimytrout (I like Lurk, although I would separate the cost from the keyworded mechanic)
Just curious to hear further thoughts on this. I chose to do it that way because of morph, which uses that structure, but do you think that it would be better as:

Cavern Horror 3BB
Creature – Horror (U)
Menace
Lurk (You may cast this card face down as a 2/2 creature for 3.)
If an opponent is attacking you with exactly one creature, you may turn Cavern Horror face up by paying BB. If you do, that player sacrifices a creature attacking you.
4/4

Or something else that I haven't thought of?
Yeah, I would do this. It feels weird to me that the cost is part of the keyworded ability, even though the ability doesn't reference it. Even if every example of the mechanic has the same conditional activation with a cost, I think it makes more sense if the keyword contains only the things it needs, and the rest of the abilities contextualize it.
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Post by bravelion83 » 1 year ago

slimytrout wrote:
1 year ago
morphs that can only be turned face up when a condition is met
Oh, so that's what lurk is? Can you believe I didn't literally get it until now that you've explicitly told it? And don't we already have a bunch of morphs that do that? Yes, the kicker argument is obviously right, and I had thought about it already by myself even though I haven't mentioned it, but lurk still looks just way too similar to morph to me. I don't know if it's just me or it's the mechanic that could be made clearer somehow, don't know how, I don't have any suggestions now. Mostly you were asking for feedback and I gave it.
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Post by slimytrout » 1 year ago

I appreciate the feedback - sometimes it's hard to communicate a mechanic on just one card, but obviously it's not a good sign that a lot of people aren't getting it. And I don't think there are any morphs that turn up conditionally -- as far as I can tell, they all have the reminder text that includes "at any time," which sort of precludes restrictions like Lurk. Anyway, trying one more to see if it makes it easier for people to grok, but then I'll give up.

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Post by bravelion83 » 1 year ago

Well, at least now I've understood what it is. It still feels strange to my eyes to see the price to turn it up on a separate line as the keyword. Maybe I'm just too used to morph but my brain still perceives it like something is wrong aesthetically. It might just be its issues though...
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Post by void_nothing » 1 year ago

[mention]Gateways7[/mention] Ride of the Returned seems more appropriate at uncommon. ;)
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Post by Gateways7 » 1 year ago

[mention]void_nothing[/mention] realized it a couple of hours after I posted but forgot to go back and switch it. it be like that sometime

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Post by bravelion83 » 1 year ago

Breaking news: I've just got a temporary job starting on February 3rd, which means I won't be able to host February as previously planned. I'll probably not even play on February. Is there somebody else who can host? I'm sorry if I let you all know only now, but I have literally known it a few hours ago.
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Post by RattingRots » 1 year ago

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Post by bravelion83 » 1 year ago

@Flatline I'm not playing this month either because of real life things, but I wanted to publicly tell you: welcome back!
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Post by Flatline » 1 year ago

bravelion83 wrote:
1 year ago
Flatline I'm not playing this month either because of real life things, but I wanted to publicly tell you: welcome back!
Thanks bravelion. I'm only back because void_nothing PMed me looking for a host for March. I doubt I'll be sticking around beyond that, but I don't want the DCC to be abandoned.
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Post by bravelion83 » 1 year ago

Flatline wrote:
1 year ago
I don't want the DCC to be abandoned.
Neither do I for the record. I'll always do everything to save any of the three major contests if needed, as I've already done for all three in past years by the way.
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Post by void_nothing » 1 year ago

With that in mind I'm looking for someone to host the DCC regularly in alternate months, beginning in May. I'll still handle at least half the year but doing the DCC every single day is fairly burdensome for me especially when I often run the MCC and CCL.
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Post by Rithaniel » 1 year ago

Hey, I'm stopping back by because I did agree to host April (or, at least that was the impression I got about what was going to happen), so I figured I should get into the swing of posting regularly about a month ahead of that.
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Post by Flatline » 1 year ago

slimytrout wrote:
1 year ago
hm: flatline (fun idea, but would have too many memory issues at uncommon)
It doesn't seem any worse than Rise from the Grave, or even +1/+1 counters or tokens for that matter. Just put a marker of some kind on it. Or a reminder card could be printed like they did for morph.
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Post by bravelion83 » 1 year ago

Rithaniel wrote:
1 year ago
Hey, I'm stopping back by because I did agree to host April (or, at least that was the impression I got about what was going to happen), so I figured I should get into the swing of posting regularly about a month ahead of that.
Yes, that was the original plan: me on February, void_nothing on March and you on April. Then it all went its own way when I didn't host February due to getting a temporary job in the meantime. void_nothing ended up hosting both January and February, and having Flatline come back specifically to host March. So who knows who will host April? I think the best thing if you still have that intention is to tell it to void_nothing, even though I'm sure he will have nothing against you hosting April. But as they say, better safe than sorry.

As for me, I will start playing again as soon as my real life allows me. Then I might also actually start hosting again. Again, who knows what's gonna happen tomorrow? Nobody!
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Post by RattingRots » 1 year ago

Flatline wrote:
1 year ago
slimytrout wrote:
1 year ago
hm: flatline (fun idea, but would have too many memory issues at uncommon)
It doesn't seem any worse than Rise from the Grave, or even +1/+1 counters or tokens for that matter. Just put a marker of some kind on it. Or a reminder card could be printed like they did for morph.
I think it's in the same ballpark as Rise, although a pretty important difference is that your card will always matter. Rise won't matter at all most of the time, and you will have a trigger to remember (hopefully) if you are playing a zombie tribal deck or something. Rise is a bit problematic in a situation where something like Doom Blade is relevant, because it isn't really a planned in. Overall, I'd say your card is fine from a memory perspective, but would be on the upper end of the allowable range.

If memory issues are really a concern, you can track the effect by having your card put a counter on the creature.
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Post by slimytrout » 1 year ago

Yeah, Rise from the Grave is only relevant in specific situations, so when it comes up in limited it's a fun bonus, and remembering it will almost always benefit its controller. In this case, "forgetting" the extra text will benefit its controller, so I think a lot of people will tend to do that at FNM, which I think is a problem. Not that I think it's impossible that this card would see print, but I just felt that it would be better to put a counter on it or have an effect like this at higher rarities where it wouldn't be as much of a problem.

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Post by void_nothing » 1 year ago

@Rithaniel if you're still available I'd be very happy to have you host April.
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Post by Rithaniel » 1 year ago

void_nothing wrote:
1 year ago
Rithaniel if you're still available I'd be very happy to have you host April.
Excellent, because that is my intention unless something drastic comes up.
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Post by slimytrout » 1 year ago

BOVINE wrote:
1 year ago
Recurring Dream gur
Sorcery R
Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a creature card and a noncreature card. Put the revealed cards into your hand.
Flatline wrote:
1 year ago
BOVINE Your card puts your entire library into your hand for three. Seems kinda broken.
Oh, man, I (and probably a lot of other people) definitely read this as the much more reasonable (although maybe still too strong) "reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a creature card and a noncreature card. Put the first creature card and the first noncreature card revealed this way into your hand, then put the rest on the bottom of your library in a random order."

Flatline is apparently the only one to RTFC. :)

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Post by BOVINE » 1 year ago

How does it out the whole library in your hand? Sorry that I'm not seeing it. In testing it's usually Divination.
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Post by slimytrout » 1 year ago

In the version you posted, if you're playing a creatureless deck, then you never reveal a creature, so you reveal your entire library this way and put all the cards into your hand. Even the version that I thought it was would still function as a tutor if you only included one creature in your deck, but that's probably within acceptable bounds.

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Post by Flatline » 1 year ago

BOVINE wrote:
1 year ago
How does it out the whole library in your hand? Sorry that I'm not seeing it. In testing it's usually Divination.
I'm sure this tests ok in a "normal" deck, but as slimytrout said, if you don't have any creatures in your deck, this puts your entire deck into your hand. Having red in the card makes it even more broken since you won't need to splash a fourth color to have access to all the rituals you will need to win quickly. I think your card might make the average Johnny/Jenny's head explode. :)
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