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RattingRots
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Post by RattingRots » 1 year ago

Oh yeah I figured it was supposed to be symmetrical and you just brainfarted.
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Post by RattingRots » 1 year ago

marioguy3 wrote:
1 year ago
At Rithaniel: Aha! That might be partially responsible for my poor score this month.
BTW, I might have played with the planes once and don't really know how to wrap my mind around them, so I'm probably not "getting" most of these. Unless these do something really unique I wouldn't really be able to judge them. I'd bet that's true for other people.
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Post by OneAndOnly » 1 year ago

It's a problem with designing cards for Planechase, Archenemy, and the other alt-formats: They really were only out for a limited time, and even then were hot-cold -- some players loved them, most were more meh. And more recent players don't have the experience or context to judge them. In a few years we'll probably add dungeons, night/day, and The City's Blessing to the pile, too. (Monarch seems to be sticking around, but it's a little more streamlined than some of these.)

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Post by RattingRots » 1 year ago

Initiative also catching on but possibly for the wrong reasons. :P
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Post by wizyard » 1 year ago

bravelion83 wrote:
1 year ago
:
- wizyard ("rather than its power" is missing, see Doran, the Siege Tower itself)

it's not "rather than," it's "in addition to," which is a wording i considered but chose "combined" instead

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Post by OneAndOnly » 1 year ago

I think Leo means, it should be "each creature deals combat damage equal to its power and toughness combined, rather than its power."

You're talkings italics, he's talking boldface.

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Post by bravelion83 » 1 year ago

OneAndOnly wrote:
1 year ago
I think Leo means, it should be "each creature deals combat damage equal to its power and toughness combined, rather than its power."

You're talkings italics, he's talking boldface.
Exactly this. It should be:

"Each creature assigns combat damage equal to its power and toughness combined rather than its power."

The last four words in that sentence were what was missing, not the part before. I also still have doubts on the word "combined", that has never been used outside of silver border/acorn. Taking Cut Down as inspiration, what I would have actually written is:

"Each creature assigns combat damage equal to its total power and toughness rather than its power."

I believe this last one would be the exact wording if this effect was to be printed right now. In the future wording might change, who knows? But for the moment I believe that's what it would be.
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Post by wizyard » 1 year ago

fair enuff.

tho i dont care for that wording, regardless of standard templating

could look at it like how alternative and additional costs differ.. alternative costs such as evoke you pay instead of or "rather than" normal costs,

but additional costs like kicker arent templated like you're paying the normal cost plus an additional cost instead of the normal cost. it sounds redundant, maybe wonky and less immediately groksome


i do think i couldve left it with my original intended wording of

"each creature you control assigns combat damage equal to its toughness in addition to its power"

which i like partly bcuz i like imagining the reader reaching up to the toughness and thinking it's going to be simply another doran style thing and being somewhat surprised when they read to the end, heh


i basically feel less tethered to the limits of existing conventions- i understand the need for standards, but i dont feel the need to pigeonhole myself strictly to the prior conclusions of an outside authority, nor wait until those conclusions get made.



hot take i know. unorthodox opinion, im fully aware

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if i see another creator's design that doesnt work within the rules or is somewhat outside typical templating, i tend to be forgiving, and it's all imaginary so i figure the rules can be written to make people's ideas work if we choose to believe/ assume so or whatever

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Post by OneAndOnly » 1 year ago

I'm right there with you. This particular instance is especially interesting; unlike Doran (which substitutes toughness for power), you're not ignoring power in the damage assignment, but rather adding toughness to it.

Additionally, MtG rules usually utilize "instead" as a replacement effect, rather than "rather."

Since I make up most of the cards I submit for Custom Card games in the span of about three minutes, I don't worry about wording that much, so long as the intent is clear. But there are times I've gone back to a card I've made up and realized the wording could have been improved. I know folks who've gone on to write "supplemental Comprehensive Rules additions," which I would save for putting together an entire set.

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Post by Rithaniel » 1 year ago

My take on the design would be a little more boring:

"Each creature gets +X/+0, where X is its toughness."

It's functionally different only in how it interacts with other cards, and it sidesteps the potential confusion.
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Post by OneAndOnly » 1 year ago

That's quite different, since it affects all non-combat damage too (fight, Fling effects, certain white removal spells, certain evasion abilities, etc.)

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Post by Rithaniel » 1 year ago

Yeah, it's functionally different in how it interacts with some other cards, but that's the only way. I actually feel that the way that cards interact actually sums up to a net zero. It half of cases you'd want the original mechanical version, and in half of cases you'd want mine. So, I'd treat them as equivalent, even though they are mechanically distinct. However, I see some potential reading-comprehension issues with the original, which is why I would go for mine.

If we were set on getting the exact mechanical interactions of the original, I'd probably opt to use the word "plus," rather than "combined," and probably add on an extra helper word to aide in reader comprehension. Something like this:

"Each creature you control assign combat damage equal to its power plus its toughness, rather than its power alone."

The "alone" at the end can then be an additional thing that you add on when the replacement effect replaces "power" with "power plus something else."
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Post by wizyard » 1 year ago

like the addition of alone to the end for clarity, which is worth a slight reduction in brevity

using the word "plus" was also something i considered, but mathy sounding words for some reason take away from the magical vibe. that's purely a personal aesthetic hang up of course
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i really didnt like the term "converted mana cost" for a long time, and irrationally avoided it in my designs just because it sounded not only unintuitive to its meaning to the layplayer, but it rang really technical to my ears. i was thankful when the term "mana value" was introduced which for some reason i dont have a problem with. i feel like all designers develop some particularities over time, tho maybe im especially neurotic
i wonder if +X/+0, where X is toughness isnt more complicated in interactions. im not sure if it gets into layers. like, when does the static ability apply after giant growth?

if you have a 0/3, that the +X/+0 static ability makes into a 3/3, then you giant growth.. would it

become a 6/6? or a 9/6?

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Post by bravelion83 » 1 year ago

wizyard wrote:
1 year ago
if you have a 0/3, that the +X/+0 static ability makes into a 3/3, then you giant growth.. would it

become a 6/6? or a 9/6?
You have two continuous effects that both apply in level 7c (P/T modifications): "+X/+0 where X is equal to the toughness (that is whatever the toughness is when this effect is applied)" and the +3/+3 from Giant Growth. Assuming there are no dependencies, you'd go based on timestamps. The +X/+0 has the timestamp of when the permanent with that static ability entered the battlefield. You said yourself that Giant Growth was cast later ("then you giant growth..."), so it has a later timestamp and it's applied afterwards. You'd start with a 0/3, then apply the +X/+0 first, which is +3/+0 because in this moment its toughness is still 3, making it a 3/3, then apply Giant Growth later, making it a 6/6. The usual disclaimer from last time applies here too.
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Post by Rithaniel » 1 year ago

Well, even with Leo's clarification, wizyard has a point. Like, a casual player would probably be very confused by those kinds of interactions. So, while my alternative makes it easier for the designer to express what they want, it actually makes it harder for the user to understand.

With that in mind, I think I prefer the damage-calculation-replacement version.
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Post by Surging Chaos » 1 year ago

While I love the flavor on netn10's Road Kill, it is absurdly broken. Starting the game with a Road Kill in your graveyard means an immediate +1 to delirium, delve, and other graveyard oriented strategies. In some ways, this is almost like the same pitfalls that screwed the Companion mechanic by having an "eighth card" from the beginning of the game.
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Post by bravelion83 » 1 year ago

@Ink-Treader wins December. See today's thread for more stats and info. Tomorrow it will be @Rithaniel's turn to host. If nothing bad happens, I will host again in March.
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Post by Surging Chaos » 1 year ago

A very close month. See you all next time.
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Post by void_nothing » 1 year ago

Any month where someone's designs are strong enough that they can score over 100 points, but still come in second place, definitely has some remarkable participation and high quality overall.
Psst, check the second page of Custom Card Contests & Games! Because of the daily contests, a lot of games fall down to there.

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Post by Rithaniel » 1 year ago

@OneAndOnly - Keep single conversational (non-card) posts to the discussion thread.

Though, yes, I think your suggested edit to Venedrex's card is logical. Honestly, I'd probably increase the cost, too.
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Post by void_nothing » 1 year ago

@marioguy3 You entered twice today.
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Post by void_nothing » 1 year ago

@Rithaniel It looks like you forgot to give wizyard bonus points in today's thread for winning yesterday!
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Post by Rithaniel » 1 year ago

void_nothing wrote:
1 year ago
@Rithaniel It looks like you forgot to give wizyard bonus points in today's thread for winning yesterday!
Whoopsidaisy. Lemme fix that
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Post by Rithaniel » 1 year ago

Hey DCC players. Tonight's thread will be going up a couple hours later than usual. The goal is currently to get it up before 2am.
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Post by bravelion83 » 1 year ago

wizyard wrote:
1 year ago
bravelion83 wrote:
1 year ago
Loot the Corpse 2BB
Sorcery (U)
As an additional cost to cast Loot the Corpse, sacrifice a creature or planeswalker.
You draw X cards and you lose X life, where X is the sacrificed permanent's toughness if it was a creature or loyalty if it was a planeswalker.
i feel like the wording of last line could be shortened to

"You draw X cards and you lose X life, where X is the sacrificed permanent's toughness or loyalty."
I had considered that but I didn't go with it because it could imply that creatures have loyalty or planeswalkers have toughness, I didn't want cross-references to be even vaguely possible. Thanks for the feedback anyway.
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