The MCC Discussion Thread

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Post by Lorn Asbord Schutta » 8 months ago

Thank you @void_nothing and @slimytrout for judging.
I also want to thank @Henlock for the competition in the last round.

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Post by void_nothing » 8 months ago

Looking for an organizer for next month's MCC. Please post here if interested.
Psst, check the second page of Custom Card Contests & Games! Because of the daily contests, a lot of games fall down to there.

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Post by slimytrout » 8 months ago

I know I'm jumping the gun a little bit, but I'm kinda busy this evening so February MCC Round 1 is up!

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Post by Riria » 8 months ago

void_nothing wrote:
8 months ago
(2/3) Quality - The reminder text is worded in a less-than-Magicese way (although that's never as precise as rules text) and keywords are not capitalized in the middle of a sentence.
So, not to contest the grading, but more as an informative question, but doesn't having precise formatting/language rules for reminder text sort of defeat the purpose of reminder text existing? I thought the point of putting reminder text on a card was to avoid confusion when the rules text, while using proper formatting, isn't 100% clear.

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Post by Lorn Asbord Schutta » 8 months ago

Regarding February MCC, does the realm of Kaldheim in question has to be from the main ten one's, or it could be one of the lesser realms, for instance God's Realm? Likewise, can we treat the World Tree and/or Cosmos itself as a sort of a realm?

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Post by slimytrout » 8 months ago

It needs to be one of the main ten.

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Post by void_nothing » 8 months ago

My February Round 1 judgments are in. In addition, January's final round is open!
Psst, check the second page of Custom Card Contests & Games! Because of the daily contests, a lot of games fall down to there.

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Post by bravelion83 » 8 months ago

Responses to @slimytrout's judgment.
slimytrout wrote:
8 months ago
Elegance — This is definitely a lot of text – it's not microtext, but it's kinda close.
That's why I included the render, to show that this was within limits though just barely, and also to show that reminder text for changeling and foretell doesn't fit. That was a concern to me for the Quality section.
slimytrout wrote:
8 months ago
Also, this is one of those cards that seems like it would have an "up to one" or "may" in the fight ability, so a lot of players would be pissed when they discover it doesn't in a very unpleasant fashion.
And they would be totally right to curse me! I should have included "up to one". I just didn't think of it.
slimytrout wrote:
8 months ago
Flavor — The addition of lizard in the name and type line is a pretty big flavor miss for me. None of the other shapeshifters have extra creature types, and fighting is not a particularly lizard-y thing to do (there's not a single existing lizard with the word "fight" on it), so I don't really get it.
It inspired me for the alliteration of the name: LI-ttjara LI-zard. From the name, it needed the Lizard printed creature type. Then I searched deviantart for an art for the render and I found that one, that's actually a transparent spirit lizard, and I felt like everything hold together very well. Maybe I was wrong, but this is the whole reason.

Unrelated, just so you all know, I would have signed up as a judge if I didn't have fisiotherapy three times a week until half March. I don't have the time to judge neither this month nor the next. We will talk for April, but for February and March I need to just be a player. Better than nothing I guess. I will be back, you all are warned!
Last edited by bravelion83 8 months ago, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by void_nothing » 8 months ago

@Riria In answer to your question from a week or so ago - while it's true reminder text doesn't have to exactly reflect rules text (Obsidian Fireheart proves that), I felt like your card deviated from what the real templating would be in the rules text reference where it was not necessary or even more convenient to do so. Of course that's subjective.

@bravelion83 I'm very glad to hear your physical rehabilitation is coming along. I would be happy to have you back as an organizer or judge whenever you're feeling up to it. For now, must be nice to play the game for a little while instead!
Psst, check the second page of Custom Card Contests & Games! Because of the daily contests, a lot of games fall down to there.

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Post by slimytrout » 8 months ago

@bravelion83 we're just glad to have you back in any capacity!

And yeah, the elegance deduction was mostly for the missing "up to one," with a minor deduction for just having a Questing Beast-like pileup of text -- I didn't think it was fair to take points from viability given that cards like QB exist, but I'm not a fan of mythics in particular having so many abilities that you can barely keep track of them. As for the flavor, I definitely see the attraction of the alliteration (and the art is very cool-looking), but I'm enough of a Melvin that this being the only card with changeling to have a type other than shapeshifter would offend me.

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Post by void_nothing » 8 months ago

Congratulations to @slimytrout, our January MCC winner!
Psst, check the second page of Custom Card Contests & Games! Because of the daily contests, a lot of games fall down to there.

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Post by bravelion83 » 7 months ago

@slimytrout
slimytrout wrote:
8 months ago
Design deadline: Sunday, February 20th 23:59 EDT
Today is the 20th and it's Saturday, not Sunday. When is the real deadline, today or tomorrow?
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Post by slimytrout » 7 months ago

A fine point -- apparently I don't know how to use a calendar. Real deadline will be tomorrow, since that's what I indicated when I said there were 60 hours left.

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Post by void_nothing » 7 months ago

Looking for an MCC organizer for March!
Psst, check the second page of Custom Card Contests & Games! Because of the daily contests, a lot of games fall down to there.

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Post by Venedrex » 7 months ago

Well. I'm not sure I'm qualified, but I wouldn't mind doing it. If someone shows me how to make the right posts I might be able to do it. I can certainly come up with some themes for the MCC. :) *Cackles maniacally* You thought a Golgari creature with flying and vigilance was a curveball? Wait till you have to design a creature that gains you life, and it turns out to be Rakdos lol.
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Post by void_nothing » 7 months ago

Venedrex wrote:
7 months ago
Well. I'm not sure I'm qualified, but I wouldn't mind doing it. If someone shows me how to make the right posts I might be able to do it.
Everyone has to start sometime.

The organizer is responsible for five threads throughout the month (usually with some overrun time into the following month) - a judge signup thread on or before the first of the month, a first round thread (which anyone can enter) on the first, and the second through final round threads subsequently. The organizer is by default also one of the judges.

It requires a time commitment but it's not hard per se, and you can always simply copy the format of past threads. I can answer any questions you have.
Psst, check the second page of Custom Card Contests & Games! Because of the daily contests, a lot of games fall down to there.

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Post by Venedrex » 7 months ago

OK gotcha. I'm gonna start thinking about the themes for the rounds now.

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Post by void_nothing » 7 months ago

Venedrex wrote:
7 months ago
OK gotcha. I'm gonna start thinking about the themes for the rounds now.
Sure, it's best to prepare early! Take your time, it's a week out, so no rush to finish anything today.

Being that organizers are also judges I think I would like to give you the judge exam, which is basically just asking you to produce a judgment for one sample card using the MCC rubric. No pressure or anything, I'm not looking for you to come up with a specific score, since the judgments with the exception of the quality and subchallenges scores, are subjective. All I want to see is that you basically understand what the categories mean, and I'm happy to clarify on them beforehand and after. :)
Psst, check the second page of Custom Card Contests & Games! Because of the daily contests, a lot of games fall down to there.

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Post by Venedrex » 7 months ago

Roger that. Just let me know when you want me to judge the card and I'll give it my best shot. :grin:

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Post by bravelion83 » 7 months ago

@Venedrex I'm also here to help as probably the most experienced judge around here, many times host too, and author of the MCC guidelines (link in my signature). If you have the time and will, I invite you to read that document. We'll see but I might decide to return to judge already on March should you need it. Don't worry about anything, I went from lurker to host in four months: two months player, then one month judge and the following month first time host. I agree it would be good for you to pass the judge test, but @void_nothing: who provides the sample card for his test? Does he just use that of this month here? Or does one of us make one specifically for him?
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MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (21): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last ever on MTGSalvation), Aug 2019 (first ever on MTGNexus) Oct 2019, Jan Jun 2020 Apr Oct 2021 || Judge (47): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last ever on MTGSalvation), every month from Aug 2019 (first ever on MTGNexus) to Feb 2020, May Jun 2020, Mar Apr Sep Oct 2021
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Post by void_nothing » 7 months ago

The fairest way would be for one of us to make a new sample card.
Psst, check the second page of Custom Card Contests & Games! Because of the daily contests, a lot of games fall down to there.

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Post by bravelion83 » 7 months ago

And have him post his sample judgment here in the discussion thread? Also, do you prefer to do it yourself or want me to do it? Works either way for me.
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MCC - Winner (6): Oct 2014, Apr Nov 2017, Jan 2018, Apr Jun 2019 || Host (21): Dec 2014, Apr Jul Aug Dec 2015, Mar Jul Aug Oct 2016, Feb Jul 2017, Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last ever on MTGSalvation), Aug 2019 (first ever on MTGNexus) Oct 2019, Jan Jun 2020 Apr Oct 2021 || Judge (47): every month from Nov 2014 to Nov 2016 except Oct 2015, every month from Feb to Jul 2017 except Apr 2017, then Oct 2017, May Jun Nov 2018, Feb Jul 2019 (last ever on MTGSalvation), every month from Aug 2019 (first ever on MTGNexus) to Feb 2020, May Jun 2020, Mar Apr Sep Oct 2021
CCL - Winner (4): Jul 2016 (tied with Flatline), May 2017, Jul 2019 (last ever on MTGSalvation), Jun 2021 (tied with slimytrout) || Host (5): Feb 2015, Mar Apr May Jun 2016
DCC - Winner (1): Mar 2015 (tied with Piar) || Host (5): May Oct 2015, Jan 2016, Jun Sep 2021
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Author of the MCC Guidelines and FAQ.

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Post by void_nothing » 7 months ago

I'll go ahead and post one right here. @Venedrex, at your leisure, judge the card below according to the MCC rubric (also spoilered below). You can assume the card passed the main challenge and both subchallenges.
MCC Rubric
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Design
(X/3) Appeal - Do the different player psychographics (Timmy/Johhny/Spike) have a use for the card?
(X/3) Elegance - Is the card easily understandable at a glance? Do all the flavor and mechanics combined as a whole make sense?

Development
(X/3) Viability - How well does the card fit into the color wheel? Does it break or bend the rules of the game? Is it the appropriate rarity?
(X/3) Balance - Does the card have a power level appropriate for contemporary constructed/limited environments without breaking them? Does it play well in casual and multiplayer formats? Does it create or fit into a deck/archetype? Does it create an oppressive environment?

Creativity
(X/3) Uniqueness - Has a card like this ever been printed before? Does it use new mechanics, ideas, or design space? Does it combine old ideas in a new way? Overall, does it feel "fresh"?
(X/3) Flavor - Does the name seem realistic for a card? Does the flavor text sound professional? Do all the flavor elements synch together to please Vorthos players?

Polish
(X/3) Quality - Points deducted for incorrect spelling, grammar, and templating.
(X/2) Main Challenge (*) - Was the main challenge satisfied? Was it approached in a unique or interesting way? Does the card fit the intent of the challenge?
(X/2) Subchallenges - One point awarded per satisfied subchallenge condition.

Total: X/25
*An entry with 0 points here is subject to disqualification.
Sample card
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Hollukh Glitterblade 1RR
Legendary Creature - Orc Warrior (R)
Double Strike
As long as you control a Treasure or you've sacrificed a Treasure this turn, Hollukh Glitterblade has indestructible and haste.
Whenever you create one or more Treasure tokens, Hollukh Glitterblade deals that much damage to target player or planeswalker.
2/1
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Post by Venedrex » 7 months ago

bravelion83 wrote:
7 months ago
@Venedrex I'm also here to help as probably the most experienced judge around here, many times host too, and author of the MCC guidelines (link in my signature). If you have the time and will, I invite you to read that document. We'll see but I might decide to return to judge already on March should you need it. Don't worry about anything, I went from lurker to host in four months: two months player, then one month judge and the following month first time host. I agree it would be good for you to pass the judge test, but @void_nothing: who provides the sample card for his test? Does he just use that of this month here? Or does one of us make one specifically for him?
Thank you for the kind words and the help, I really appreciate it.

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Post by Venedrex » 7 months ago

Judgment
Spoiler
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Design

(X/3) Appeal - Do the different player psychographics (Timmy/Johhny/Spike) have a use for the card?

Timmy might like the sheer number of keywords that are on the card, but Txmmy doesn't probably like the fact that the creature isn't necessarily splashy in terms of a big awesome effect, and that the indestructible and haste, as well as the direct damage are dependent upon a way to create Treasure.

Which brings us to Johnny/Jenny, who, while appreciating the idea of finding a way to make this guy work, may be annoyed that the process of doing so isn't super complicated.
You don't really have to find an obscure synergy with this guy, just put treasure makers in your deck.

Spike likes the idea of the keywords, possibly more so than Txmmy, as a powerful creature is a good way to win games. But once again, this card is far too situational for Spike in reality, as the indestructible and haste, while powerful, are realistically harder to trigger than one would think at first glance, due to the card itself not creating treasure.

1/3 (0.5 for each)

(X/3) Elegance - Is the card easily understandable at a glance? Do all the flavor and mechanics combined as a whole make sense?

The card is a little wordy and hard to fully grasp at first glance. There is a lot of "and or" which can lead to confusion when players read the card. You can imagine two players going back and forth after one played this card: "Does it do XYZ?" "Yeah, oh and it also does that if you sacrifice a Treasure, not just if you control one." That takes away from the elegance of the card a bit. Flavorfully, it's tricky to comprehend for me.

It's a Legendary Orc, but I'm not sure what plane it's from, or much else about it, other than it likes shiny swords. Glitterblade is of course referring to the Treasure synergies, but the name doesn't really work for me. Glitterblade? I think an Orc with that name must have killed all his fellow orcs, otherwise he'd be laughed out of his neighborhood. Long story short, the flavor and mechanics don't work for me at all.

I also don't see how this guy launches damage when Treasures are created, or how he gains indestructible or haste off of them. Does his sword getting shinier make him tougher and run faster? I don't get it.

1/3 (0.5 for Glitterblade + Treasure being a connection, 0.5 for good generic orc name, 0.5 for double strike and the name blade going together.)

Development

(X/3) Viability - How well does the card fit into the color wheel? Does it break or bend the rules of the game? Is it the appropriate rarity?

Double strike is perfectly fine on a red card, especially one with two pips. Haste is fine as well, and caring about Treasures is totally acceptable in red. Indestructible is a different story. I think I can count on one hand how many red cards have indestructible, and they are almost always god creatures. Which is in fact the primary reason red even gets indestructible, as it is tertiary in it along with blue.

Another massive red flag is the combination of three incredibly powerful keywords on one creature. Wotc usually never puts double strike, indestructible, and haste together (if ever) because such creatures would be overpowered and tacky. Even just two of these three keywords on creature might be unacceptable for power reasons, even if they are dependent on the player possessing a Treasure.

The rarity of this card is fine, but a case could possibly be made to bump this up to Mythic.

1/3

(X/3) Balance - Does the card have a power level appropriate for contemporary constructed/limited environments without breaking them? Does it play well in casual and multiplayer formats? Does it create or fit into a deck/archetype? Does it create an oppressive environment?

To me, this card runs into balance issues because of the overabundance of keywords, ease of which those keywords can be triggered, and rng related to whether or not you can make Treasure to supercharge this card. Permanent indestructible on a double striker as long as you control a Treasure appears to make this a terribly flawed card to me. If you have a Treasure, your opponent needs a very specific form of removal to save them, or this creature will run them over. Alternatively, if you don't have a Treasure, this guy is pretty pathetic for a rare legendary creature.

Not to mention, the second part of the effect: "or when you sacrifice a Treasure," feels mostly useless because no one would generally ever sacrifice their last treasure, meaning they never have a need for the bonus being obtained through sacrificing a Treasure, because they will make sure to always have a Treasure so their creature can't die to most removal.

0/3

Creativity
(X/3) Uniqueness - Has a card like this ever been printed before? Does it use new mechanics, ideas, or design space? Does it combine old ideas in a new way? Overall, does it feel "fresh"?

Cards that care about Treasure have been made before. To me, the card has aspects that I haven't seen specifically, but the general idea of a red creature that grows stronger based on Treasure is nothing new. It doesn't feel particularly new or exciting to me.

1/3

(X/3) Flavor - Does the name seem realistic for a card? Does the flavor text sound professional? Do all the flavor elements synch together to please Vorthos players?

The first part of the name seems fine, the second part not so much. Flavorfully, I think Vorthos players would be disappointed with this card. There just isn't much story to find in its flavor, and what does come through seems to be a detriment to the card.

0/3

Polish
(X/3) Quality - Points deducted for incorrect spelling, grammar, and templating.

No big issues, just a little wordy in a couple places.

2.5

(X/2) Main Challenge (*) - Was the main challenge satisfied? Was it approached in a unique or interesting way? Does the card fit the intent of the challenge?

2

(X/2) Subchallenges - One point awarded per satisfied subchallenge condition.

2

Total: 10/25
*An entry with 0 points here is subject to disqualification.

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