Typeline redux

Pygyzy
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Post by Pygyzy » 5 days ago

I actually posted this before but deleted cuz I thought it was dumb but I thought about it and I'm still gonna ask anyways.

My problem:

Legendary Creature - Elder Baby Pirate Dragon. It's too long. I need(Need!) all 4 creature types so I'm left with only one choice.

Legendary — Elder Dragon Pirate Child or Legendary Elder Dragon Pirate Child

Oops I open a box. Actually I have a better idea. what about Elder Dragon Pirate Child <signifier symbol for creature><signifier symbol for legendary>

Or if you're boring Creature — Elder Dragon Pirate Child <legendary signifier symbol>

Of course it's a slippery slope because why not just make everything a signifier. The cards just looks like a bunch of emojis when you're done. I'm being hyperbolic to explain my point. Where's the cutoff? Wizards has indicator tech but seems reticent to use it. I'm thinking for a reason. My guess is creature vs <Some symbol that kinda looks like a hand I guess? but also like this other one just sideways> on top of <sideways arrow><other sideways arrow> Etc, is a subset of complexity creep I'll call "symbolic overload". Its just too much. But WOTC can be pretty myopic and I tend to disagree with them a lot so I think it could. So what's the best route?

That leads to my second question: Isnt Magic mostly just gibberish? For example, "Add W" is nonsense. But otherwise you'd have to write, Turn this card sideways. This denotes it you used to generate a resource so you can move a card with a sun symbol out of your hand pile." Or something that becomes even more ridiculous. Something simple like "put a +1/+1 counter" becomes "Place an object such as a coin or die onto a card. That object indicates you to add one to each value printed on the box in the lower right hand corner in addition to any other modifications that box has."

That said, could this work?

Not what you think U
Instant
Counter target spell that's all nonsense.
Or
Counter target spell with a nonsense sentence.

What would that do? The first could be some weird tech maybe, the second is probably too broad

Does that function as more or less intended?

TIA. I know it's probably stupid but there's a line between stupid and don't know any better haha

user_938036
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Post by user_938036 » 5 days ago

On the subject of symbols and words its all about threshold. At one point you have a card that is completely unintelligible unless you are in the know but you need some images that immediately make a person go "Oh, that from ~". That is why other games have been sued for using symbols similar to t or even saying tap I think and yugioh had to change their cards form magic cards to spell cards. The symbols they use to shorthand keyword in arena function as aids but you still really need the words on the actual card; its simply too hard to look at the card and think "those slashes mean double strike or haste I think...". As for your type line problem, this has come up, on several occasions and the only reasonable solution is double the type line so it takes up two spaces. It eats into your text box or art but sacrifices have to be made and they shouldn't be made on comprehension.

Your actual card. I don't think it works the way you want because I'm having a very hard time finding a card that it doesn't counter besides vanilla creatures. There is a lot of assumed information that you need to decipher even the simplest of cards. Though a lot of that information can be deduced from other cards with similar words or simply context but you still lack actual knowledge of the rules that make it function making it effectively nonsense. Take a random common, Bake into a Pie . What does "destroy" mean? In the first unset you actually tore up cards is that what destroy means? Target is easy to decipher but it is also loaded with unseen rules. Creature is both easy to decipher and notoriously misunderstood. Can I destroy the creature in their hand if I know it is there? What does Create mean? Do I have to assemble something? Nearly every word on the card can be described as nonsense, including the reminder text.

A fun direction to go with such a concept is the opposite of Duh

Not what you think U
Instant
Counter target spell that should have reminder text.

Pygyzy
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Post by Pygyzy » 5 days ago

Thank you that was very insightful and also burst my bubble haha

Typeline and indicators - hasn't considered an extra line that's interesting. I figured as much about the indicator. Unlikely I'll use it but let's just entertain it for a second and try to fix some issues.

Let's say you have easily recognizable grokkable symbols somehow. I really can't come up with one so that's a bad sign but for argument I'll say, orange smiley face creature, yellow frowny face instant, purple laughing face sorcery, legendary pink crying. And say you had the rules inserts cards that say "orange smiley = creature", how different is it to say "I play my Legendary artifact creature" from "I play this card that's these 3 symbols" and point to the reminder card that has the symbols w/ rules. I'm not saying it's a good idea, the more I consider it the more it seems terrible just beating a dead horse.

One other avenue I thought about. Consider the ability tokens. Hypothetically what if you had something like this

True American R
Average Guy <legendary indicator> <creature indicator>
2/2

Now you have punch out token cards with the same symbols, and some rules handwave about tokens and types blah blah. You could remove a creatures type by removing its token haha. Anyways that sounds awful too. Maybe for one card.

Nonsense - Suspicion confirmed. Magic is gibberish. This is a little wrinkle for me since it was gonna be tied to overly-complex so it's gonna need a rework. I figured it would be overpowered but not all-encompassing. Your card is I think functionally close enough that I can work from it. Thanks.

I was gonna attempt "literal cards" to oppose nonsense but it's daunting.
Just the concept idea.

Finish Your Plate 0
Delicious Instant - Dessert
Add a cupcake to your dinner table.

That card is nonsense in Magic, however it actually has real meaning in English. I guess it's the few magic card ever that can be interpreted literally and still "function"

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Post by user_938036 » 5 days ago

If you want to experiment with Icons replace either types or supertypes not both.

If you replace supertypes its much easier. Some kind of dragon symbol like the Torment Set symbol works for legendary. Dragons are often associated with legendary status. A snowflake works perfect for snow. Basic is harder but I feel it shouldn't be too difficult to find something. You might be able to use a globe for world. Scheme could be kind of like a book. The scroll motif already used on conspiracies could be made into a symbol. The others are harder.
Last edited by user_938036 5 days ago, edited 1 time in total.

Pygyzy
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Post by Pygyzy » 5 days ago

Ok that's good advice. Thanks for the help.

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