[Deck] Zombies

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ktkenshinx
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Post by ktkenshinx » 2 years ago

This is a placeholder thread. If you are interested in taking over the thread and/or writing a primer, PM the moderator team.
This is the thread to discuss the Zombies archetype in Modern.
Over-Extended/Modern Since 2010

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scarbo
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Post by scarbo » 1 year ago

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The deck "Zombies" could theoretically refer to any number of decks. This is primarily a tribal build, exploiting the synergies and recursion Zombies afford. In this guide we'll introduce the core engine, the supporting cast, and other cards worth considering. This is not a reanimator deck.

Why Zombies?
Simply put, this is a fun deck that wins games. It has proven surprisingly effective in the current meta, including against Tron, Titan, Snow Control, and Burn. And if you're on a budget, it's extremely easy to build a version for around $100. The full version should be no more than $500, mostly thanks to the land base. More on that later!

The Stars of the Show
The central engine of the deck revolves around five cards:
Carrion Feeder
Gravecrawler
Stitcher's Supplier
Unearth
Diregraf Colossus

Feeder
This is the heart of our engine and for us, functions like a Giver of Runes. Our opponent will have to focus their removal on it before anything else since we're always free to sac targets to Feeder. That doesn't mean Feeder always will be the first target of our enemy's removal, but that's a mistake they're not like to make more than once. Feeder also supplies us with a nice combat track against lifelink decks: sacrifice your blocker before combat damage, and unless the attacking creature had trample, it will deal no damage and our opponent won't gain any life. The same holds for deathtouch.

Gravecrawler
This is Feeder's best friend, and before we continue, we shall introduce...

The Fundamental Theorem of Zombies (FTZ)
A Gravecrawler in your graveyard is as valuable as a Gravecrawler in your hand.
Corollary. One Gravecrawler is sufficient in either your hand, graveyard, or on the battlefield.

We'll refer to FTZ constantly throughout this guide, such is its power. You should already see the first exploit: Gravecrawler + Feeder provides us with mana sink and a beefy Feeder. This combination also gets a lot of our other synergies firing off, and we'll visit those later.

Stitcher's Supplier
What a card! Stitcher makes for an excellent early blocker or fodder for Feeder. This is the primary way we'll load up our graveyard with Zombies. There's not much more to say than that.

Unearth
If Gravecrawler is Feeder's best friend, Unearth might be Sticher's. With cycling to boot, this provides cheap recursion since everything we play is no more than 3 cmc. It's a beautiful thing when you cast Stitcher on turn 1 and have Unearth ready on turn 2 to target...

Diregraf Colossus
This really is the defining card of the deck. It's not terribly powerful on its own, but it defines this as a Zombie deck and encourages us to use them. Colossus is why we don't play Bloodghast or Gifted Aetherborn. If you already have a Feeder and Gravecrawler, Colossus can churn out tokens equal to your number of lands. In the late game, once our library is brimming with Zombies, it's not at all hard to pop this down as an 8/8 or 10/10. Colossus is our primary win condition and makes this a little more midrange-y than aggro, as well as lending a bit of a combo element.

Any of these 1-drops is a fine turn 1 play. If you have options, however, I like Gravecrawler for turn 1. Your opponent can remove it, but unless it's Path to Exiled (in which case we get an extra land on turn 1 - great!), we can always bring it back. Red has some exile-removal, but we don't see much in the meta. Alternatively, you could cast Feeder on turn 1 and Gravecrawler on turn 2, then swing Feeder for 3 by exploiting FTZ. Don't waste your early Unearths on the 1-drops. There are much more valuable targets we'll discuss now.

The Supporting Cast
Now that we know what this deck does, let's look at some other choices we have.
Cryptbreaker and/or Undead Augur
Plague Belcher
Geralf's Messenger
Relentless Dead
There are of course others, and we'll get to those later.

Cryptbreaker/Undead Augur
It's crucial the deck includes at least one of these. They both have their strengths and weakness. You can get a decent draw engine going as early as turn 2 either way.
Cryptbreaker's strength is that it provides us with a mana sink and a way to put Unearth targets or unnecessary lands in our graveyard, or by FTZ, Gravecrawler. With as many 1-drops as we play, it's not hard to have 3 Zombies on turn 2, and our drawing engine is already online. Its drawback is that it precludes us from attacking, which isn't necessarily a bad thing all the time. You can always keep your Zombies untapped to block, then active Cryptbreaker before combat damage.
Augur works with no effort on our part and turns the Feeder + Gravecrawler combo into insane amounts of card advantage. You will have to keep any eye on the toll it's taking on your life total, but if you have an Augur out during a Supreme Verdict sweep, you'll be happy. Augur's also not a bad Unearth target. It's real beauty is that it triggers on itself, so even it dies the turn you play it, it replaces itself.
Which you include will ultimately be a matter of personal preference. My preference is a combination of both.

Plague Belcher
Belcher is Colossus's cousin and a real fatty with a nice bonus to boot – it gives us an aristocrat element to the deck. This is excellent against Ensnaring Bridge builds since we can ping our opponent to death without attacking. Menace is just icing on the cake. Our deck has a lot of flexibility to exploit its "drawback" – remember FTZ? Another is the token Colossus produces when you cast Belcher. And you can always have time to sacrifice your target to Feeder before you let it get the -1/-1 counters. If you're out of a board presence (after a wipe perhaps) and have no other Zombies to cast, at least Belcher can survive its own debuff, and there are worse cards than a 3/2 with menace.

Geralf's Messenger
Messenger is probably the happiest target for Unearth, especially when you have Feeder lying around. An "undied" Messenger is also a happy target for Belcher – the +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters cancel each other out.

Relentless Dead
I think of Relentless as an Unearth contingency plan. It is a little slow but can be a happy draw after a wipe. Menace is a nice addition. I don't think you would want to run more than 2, however.


The Extras
That's it for the core Zombies. What else is at our disposal?
Thoughtseize
Inquisition of Kozilek
Liliana of the Veil
Liliana, Heretical Healer
Defile
Fatal Push

The Lilianas
Veil-Lili can win games by herself and will almost certainly distract your opponent while you continue amassing your Zombie army. Her discard ability is good for us, see FTZ yet again. Healer-Lili is another option. They both cost 3, and it's extremely easy to get Healer-Lili to flip the same turn you cast her. The flexibility of keeping her as a lifelink blocker could be valuable in an aggro matchup. And don't discount that Zombie she makes when she flips.
So if both Lilianas can be a turn 3 planeswalker with a discard plus ability, which one is better? I don't have the answer to this, so many running both is worth it, and thanks to latest legend rule for planeswalkers, we can. Healer-Lili has a highly valuable Unearth effect for her negative, but Veil-Lili's ultimate is entirely possible to achieve in this deck, and that can save you from dreaded sideboard hate like Leyline of the Void and Rest in Peace. More on sideboarding later…

Disruption
I do believe the decks needs some disruption. One of the biggest weaknesses to this deck are highly non-linear combo decks that can assemble their pieces while we're building our Zombie army. We are losing life to our draw engine, but Thoughtseize hits more relevant threats for us.

Removal
There are two powerful options for removal for us: Fatal Push and Defile. Which you run will be determined by your meta and what you choose for your land base, which we discuss next.

The Lands
Multicolor variants are discussed below, but this version is all black. Consequently, there's nothing wrong with running only Swamps. Alternatively, you can add Cavern of Souls, Urborg, Bojuka Bog, and whatever else, but I've found that Defile works beautifully, and it's so satisfying to be able to pick something besides Blood Moon when your opponent reveals their hand to your disruption. That you don't have to break the bank just to afford your land base – arguably one of the bigger barriers to entry for the modern format – is just gravy. You can still run fetchlands with Swamps, but between Thoughtseize and the draw engine, the life may be more valuable. And I really hate Blood Moon.
So how many lands? This will of course depend on how you choose to flesh out your build. I've found that the deck's drawing engine is so efficient that I can afford to run much fewer lands than I normally would in a midrange-ish deck. But this is something you'll have to figure out for yourself, but I wouldn't recommend any more than 23.

Now that we've covered all the cards, here's my decklist.

Some other cards to consider...

Nantuko Husk
Husk is a solid consideration since it has cmc 3 (and thus can be Unearthed) and has its own free sac ability. So much of this deck revolves around your creatures dying, and you could find yourself in a situation where you're stuck until something dies. I've even targeted myself with Veil-Lili just to get a death trigger. One Husk could be the contingency plan this deck needs, especially if your opponent throws down a Chalice of the Void.

Death Baron (or any lord)
It's a bit odd that this is a tribal deck that doesn't include a lord by default, but it's also not your typical aggro deck. There are plenty lords to choose from, and they could take the place of the 3-drops we've already discussed, but at that point you're starting to build a different deck, one that would probably include Aether Vial.

Dread Wanderer
I liked this card in Standard, but I think it could be too slow in Modern. Entering tapped doesn't help Cryptbreaker, either. It could find a place in more aggressive builds.

Blasting Station
I'm hesitant to consider non-Zombies, but Blasting Station may work well in aristocratic builds.

Dark Salvation
The problem with this card is that it requires too much mana to be of any value. You can reliably get to 5 or 6 lands in most games, but that would only be 2 or 3 tokens.

Liliana's Mastery
I might consider this in a sideboard against grindier matchups, but you don't need that many Zombies on the field to outlast your opponent and win, so this feels like it would be a win-more card. It's also not a Zombie itself, so Colossus doesn't much like it, though it would pair well with the tokens it produces.

Bad Moon
I'd be much more inclined to try Bad Moon than any other non-Zombie card. You can get it out early, which makes all of our 1-drops that much more threatening. I'd say it definitely belongs in any highly aggro variant.

Rotting Regisaur
Remember what we said about FTZ? I'd be remiss at the least not to consider this card. It has an impressive body, and we're likely discarding for Lili anyway. It just doesn't have any synergy with our deck beyond being a Zombie.

A big motivation for putting this together is getting more eyeballs on the deck for fresh ideas. It already performs consistently well, but I feel like it's missing just one small component to allow it to really dominate the meta.

Multicolor Variants
One huge appeal of this deck is its utterly consistent mana base and immunity to Blood Moon. Still, there are cards in other colors that could be worth considering.

White
White gives us access to better removal with Path to Exile, which would be a necessary replacement for Defile. We also have Wayward Servant and Corpse Knight for the Aristocrat build. Tidehollow Sculler provides excellent disruption, and if you sac it to Feeder before the first ability resolves, your opponent won't get it back. We also get some exile cards to deal with problematic permanents.

Blue
The Zombies of Innistrad were blue and black, and Rooftop Storm actually creates an infinite combo situation for us with Gravecrawler, Feeder, and something else like Colossus or Belcher. Rooftop has a hefty cost, which is probably why we haven't seen the combo already, but including one as a backup plan for a blue/black midrange build (with Diregraf Captain) could be cute. Thought Scour can take some of the burden off Stitcher for graveyard filling. But for every non-Zombie we add, that's a Zombie we have to remove.

Red
Red really doesn't offer Zombies much. Lightning Bolt could provide reach, and Tymaret, the Murder King is the only red Zombie that conceivably makes sense. Maybe there's a graveyard recursion combo out there in red that I don't know about.

Green
Green is probably the most plausible color to splash. There are plenty green Zombies, and it opens access to Abrupt Decay and Assassin's Trophy, valuable answers to our deck's most vulnerable weaknesses, discussed later in the sideboard section. Collected Company is an interesting possibility to create board presence, too. It takes time for Zombies to build its board presence, so some ramp via Birds of Paradise or Gilded Goose could be a welcome addition. My intuition is that including these cards at the expense of removing Zombies does not result in a net positive.

What if I'm on a Budget?
Fear not! Zombies offers extremely affordable flexibility. In many Modern decks, the land base is the most expensive part, but this deck can function with only Swamps. Fleshbag Marauder is a decent alternative for Veil-Lili, and Inquisition of Kozilek or even Mire's Toll can replace Thoughtseize.

Sideboard Considerations
I've added ample copies of Pharika's Libation in my sideboard. It may not be apparent, but this deck is surprisingly resilient to graveyard hate. Leyline of the Void and Rest in Peace, which not only offer graveyard hate but prevent our creatures from even dying, are the worst hoses. Pharika's Libation offers a decent answer. Of course there's artifact hate to consider as well, particularly Grafdigger's Cage, Relic of Progenitus, and Tormod's Crypt, but let's consider how this deck actually uses the graveyard as a resource. It all boils down to Unearth and FTZ. Grafdigger's Cage prevents our fun recursion, but we still have ample alternative win conditions. Relic of Progenitus has been proven a laughable threat. A corollary to FTZ is that we only need ONE Gravecrawler in our hand, on the battlefield, or in our graveyard to be effective. Ashiok, Dream Render is another threat, but it's not difficult to deal with him by attacking.

Liliana of the Veil is ultimately our best answer to graveyard-hosing artifacts and enchantments. I've won many games by putting lands in one pile and nonlands in the other. Again, don't underestimate how plausible it is to reach her ultimate. Zombies can produce a lot of blockers.
The greatest threat to the deck are fast, nonlinear combo decks like Ad Nauseum and Creatures Toolbox. Zombies is a little slow to build its board/graveyard presence, and these decks don't need much time to piece together their one-turn-win combos. Mercifully, Defile deals with Heliod. And I strongly encourage good disruption. Sideboard in Surgical Extraction or Extirpate to prevent your opponent's combos from landing.
Kalitas is a good answer to aggro. Healer-Lili's lifelink is also nice. Against Burn, your opponent will likely be fooled into wasting their removal on your Zombies, so if you can last long enough to get a Veil-Lili out, you can probably win. Collective Brutality is another sideboard possibility for aggro.

Force of Despair and Leyline of the Void are personal choices based on my meta, where I see a lot of Dredge, Goblins, Elves, Merfolk, and Jund. Of course you should always tailor your sideboard to your meta.

Fin
That covers the fundamentals of the Modern Zombie archetype. There's certainly more work that needs to be done before a meta-worthy build is achieved, but I have a lot of hope for this. As always, the saving grace to tribal decks in non-rotating formats is that new expansions can provide exactly that piece that may have been missing to solidify the deck.

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Post by fourdogsinahorsesuit » 11 months ago

The dead speak!
Spooky season has brought with it an influx of undead walkers posting some results:
First I cracked the top 64 in an event of I will not say how many people
Then streamer AspiringSpike posted a 5-0 using a donated UB Walkers list
Then MTGO user __Ghost__ ran a replication experiment and got a 5-0 posted one week later
Finally, told to run "Something Spooky" Aspiring Spike 5-0'd again
Other people tried to recreate the magic:
Much Abrew with the 4-1
Fluffy wolf went 2-3
This man too.

I have long advocated for UB as the zombie color combo of choice.
Diregraf Captain Is both lord and artistocrat. Pumps zombies and rewards them for dying. And they will die. That's what creatures do.
Soul Diviner is a card I have slept on and it was to my own peril: It's just gas. The dream is, of course, with Geralf's Messenger but it also interacts with Plague Belcher, Aether Vial. and Carrion Feeder.
Countermagic: Right now modern is pretty fair, which is good since it's really hard to out-fair this deck, but sometimes you just need to throw a Negate into the works, and Countersquall is a Negate with upside.

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Post by scarbo » 11 months ago

Well I am beyond thrilled at these results! How did you feel about Dread Wanderer? I feel like there's almost always something else I'd rather do with my mana during a main phase, but I admit I've not tested it yet.

ETA additional thoughts...
It's interesting not seeing Stitcher's Supplier, but when I reflect back on playing with this, I never really felt like it contributed to any wins. Diregraf Colossus is also noticeably absent, but then again at best it's a win-more token generator and at worst an expensive goyf. I do wonder if the addition of Diregraf Captain renders Plague Belcher obsolete or if the latter's friendly fire potential is worthwhile. If Soul Diviner is as extraneous as you say, I wonder if Stitcher does have a place, especially with a lord to boost it. And finally, Aether Vial... I definitely considered this card at some point but can't recall why I dismissed it. When I started running this deck, I was relatively new to the modern format and have since played a number of tribal aggro decks, coming to appreciate vial. I think it should definitely be included.

ETA take 2...
If Soul Diviner is obsolete, then Diregraf Captain is the only reason to splash blue. Then surely there's another (mono-black) lord out there to maintain the mana consistency advantage and benefit of Defile?

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Post by fourdogsinahorsesuit » 11 months ago

scarbo wrote:
11 months ago
Well I am beyond thrilled at these results! How did you feel about Dread Wanderer? I feel like there's almost always something else I'd rather do with my mana during a main phase, but I admit I've not tested it yet.

ETA additional thoughts...
It's interesting not seeing Stitcher's Supplier, but when I reflect back on playing with this, I never really felt like it contributed to any wins. Diregraf Colossus is also noticeably absent, but then again at best it's a win-more token generator and at worst an expensive goyf. I do wonder if the addition of Diregraf Captain renders Plague Belcher obsolete or if the latter's friendly fire potential is worthwhile. If Soul Diviner is as extraneous as you say, I wonder if Stitcher does have a place, especially with a lord to boost it. And finally, Aether Vial... I definitely considered this card at some point but can't recall why I dismissed it. When I started running this deck, I was relatively new to the modern format and have since played a number of tribal aggro decks, coming to appreciate vial. I think it should definitely be included.

ETA take 2...
If Soul Diviner is obsolete, then Diregraf Captain is the only reason to splash blue. Then surely there's another (mono-black) lord out there to maintain the mana consistency advantage and benefit of Defile?
Dread Wanderer is easily the worst card in the deck. And while I am unsure that zero is the correct number, you will note in AspiringSpike's second list (Where he modified the deck to his own tastes) he cut them entirely. Wanderer's 2/1 for B statline makes it appealing in early game and it's recursion is notable late, but that usually only is relevant if you had it early. Because in the game where you topdeck it late, you'd rather have had anything else. In the midgame you should have better things to be doing with your mana than bringing back a tapped 2/1. That said, having 3 2/1's on the table when you slam the lord is, in many cases, more pressure than a deck can deal with. So yes you can cut it, and I've been experimenting without it. We'll see.

re: ETA's:
In modern everything needs to render some sort of card advantage. In zombies we usually get this on the back end: The creature dies, and we get some sort of trigger turning the exchange from even into a two-for-one in our favor. So when evaluating the cards you posted let's keep that in mind.
Sticher's Supplier: The floor on this card is a 1/1. It doesn't dodge any removal and it doesn't really advance the board in a threatening way. It has half the power of other one drops and only draws a card if and only if the mill trigger hits a Gravecrawler. Sure it's cute in Unearth builds but hopping you played this, had unearth in your hand and hopping that a survey of your top 3 hit a juicy Unearth target/Gravecrawler well:
21% Assuming you're on the play and all Gravecrawlers are in the deck.
54% Assuming you're on the play and all 12 3 drops are still in the deck.
Now multiply those by the odds you have it T1, and for the second number multiply again by the odds you have unearth and you see the numbers go down quickly.
But fun fact: If you unearth Diregraf Colossus, it will count itself when it enters with +1/+1 counters, so it's at least always a 3/3!

Diregraf Colossus So the immediate impact of this card is anywhere from a 2/2 to Large/Large. But then your opponent casts removal and it's gone. You got nothing. It also doesn't play well with Vial.
So let's look at the situations it's good, and compare it to it's biggest competition, Diregraf Captain and Plague Belcher. When it comes to being a big creature, it's almost always smaller than Belcher. It wants to be played ahead of your other spells, so you can't hold it and let your graveyard grow. If you do you'll be missing out on all those cast triggers and those triggers are the biggest appeal. So it's a little bigger than captain (realistically, a 3/3 is what you should expect if you cast it with your third land drop) but smaller than Belcher. Now you;ve tapped out to cast a 3/3. What else happens? Nothing until you untap right? Captain already buffed your team so if you attacked you might have added 2 power across two creatures. Maybe one of them died and you got a trigger in. The Belcher is just a bigger creature (with menace) and it might have also got it's point in with it's shoot trigger, or it shot something that can turn that -1/-1 into a positive (looking at you, Soul Diviner/Messenger) and, of course, if something dies you get a little life loss too. But now your opponent untaps with 3/4 mana. That's prime answering time. That could be a wrath, a primeval titan, the beginning of a cryptic loop. Or just a bolt to kill your guy. In the lord scenario you still had last turn's attack. The Belcher might dodge the removal. They both might get some triggers on a wrath effect. The Colosus just dies, and that's the opposite of what we want in this deck: Dying needs to advance our game plan somehow. For Colosus to be good you need it, and another spell to cast. So realistically it's more of a 4 drop than a 3, but you need a few things to fall in place for it to get a CA return on your investment. Also the tokens enter tapped so you can't use them to block the turn you create them. Which also means without help Colosus won't be getting it's points back for two untaps after it ETB.
I played with this card, but never liked it enough in a deck already crowded at 3.
Diregraf Captain It doesn't render Belcher Obsolete so much as it compliments it. They have the same 'dies' trigger, and they both can block (a premium in this deck). Captain suppliments hands where you go wide, and Belcher helps when you go tall, and they both work when everything is dying. Which they will. Because this is Zombies.
Soul Diviner I think you misread what I said: This card is gas. Extraneous? No. Nononono.
Aether Vial Mandatory four of. Especially when you're the aggro deck drawing cards. Think of the galaxy brain meme:
Vialing in for double spells: Brain
Vialing in a Belcher to blank a removal: Big Brain
Vialing in a card you drew after opponent wrath'd you into three new cards: Enlightened Brain
Vialing in your whole hand because you kept a one-lander: Galaxy Brain

On Blue v Mono black v White v Red v Esper v 5 color v Green
Soul Diviner and Captain are very good cards, and having just one color splash is relatively free. The added bonus is that in your side you get access to blue spells which help you against decks that don't interact with you. Like storm. Or G tron. (I thought E tron was bad too but after some success against it I am tentatively moving the slider to "Favorable" This is why I go blue, because I think it gives me the most flexible sideboard, and assuredly the best lord. Plus diviner acting as a field medic that keeps my hand full of action.
Mono black is pretty much the budget option. Yes you can build a competent deck but between cavern of souls, fetches, shocks, and fastlands there's no reason not to splash something. Maybe if Blood Moon takes over the meta, but even then you have vial.
White is something I feel is a trap but until last month I was pretty much alone in this camp. People see Tidehollow Sculler and Wayward Servant and they start jamming godless shrines. (Also Luminous Broodmoth goes infinite with Messenger and Feeder, while just being good in a creature deck). But do not fall victim to this trap! Remember how I said Colosus only works when you untap with it and your opponent gives you the chance: Well that's SUPER true for Wayward Servant. It's a 2/2 that needs to be played first (inflexible sequencing) and since it's ETB instead of cast, opponent's can even respond to it if it's going to be a problem. Plus it's relatively low stat line, 2/2 means you probably would be throwing it away if you attacked with it. Undead Augur at least will give you a card back when it's forced to chump. Sculler is a little different but my experience is without taxes to go with it, they'll just kill it and get the card back. Sure you can sacrifice it to Feeder and keep the card gone forever but if you want Castigate, play Castigate.
Red gives you the fastest zombie deck and Dreadhorde Butcher which is the second-best 2 drop behind Augur (but I have a habit of undervaluing Diviner, so maybe third best). It has haste and when it dies it gets to hit any target. Nearly every game I slam this down on turn 2 it connects with the opponent's face, and nearly every time it grows I also win the game. You also get lightning bolt in these colors but what you don't get is a plan past turn 3. You're hyper aggressive so you can't really play Cryptbreaker to supplement your Augur engine, and your color excluded from Diviner. You still have Village Rites which I can't comment on because I had left BR behind before it was printed so maybe it works? Test and find out.
Esper Might be good but I am already opposed to the white zombies, and would prefer lands that make actual colored mana so I can run splash-colored spells out of the side.
5 color I tried this at the same time blood moon was popular so my thoughts are out of date.
Green Lotleth Troll pretty good. Shapers' Sanctuary in the side? VERY GOOD. Everything else in the color green? Forgettable. We can even kill enchantments now with just black since Feed the Swarm was printed.

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Post by Quamobrem » 10 months ago

I've been running decks like this for a pretty long while, and was about to test a red Dreadhorde list before Covid hit.. Was also running Grim Initiate (He's two boys for sacrificing, and first strike can be good sometimes) and Fallen Ideal (It's a recurring sac engine that can do some pretty major shenanigans with Dreadhorde Butcher). I think I'm gonna try to do that again on Cockatrice for a bit. Took some inspiration from the decklists on here, and I think I'm gonna try this. Not really sure what the SB should be in the current meta so it's just kinda Some Stuff right now.
Decklist
Approximate Total Cost:

I'm also considering doing a Grixis version? I kind of expected Diregraf Captain to just get bolted instantly, though. Is that not y'all's experience? I also expected Soul Diviner to just not have a target too often to be useful. Is that also not y'all's experience?
Last edited by Quamobrem 10 months ago, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by The Fluff » 10 months ago

curious why you have 2 leyline of the void in the main?

many gy decks in your area?
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Post by Quamobrem » 10 months ago

I don't, the formatting was being weird. Everything after the //sb is in the sideboard.

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Post by scarbo » 10 months ago

I'm not sure if I like leyline even in sb unless aristocrats or dredge is super dominant. Leyline shuts down your own deck.

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 10 months ago

scarbo wrote:
10 months ago
I'm not sure if I like leyline even in sb unless aristocrats or dredge is super dominant. Leyline shuts down your own deck.
Leyline of the Void only affects your opponent. You're thinking about Rest in Peace.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Jeskai Phoenix, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by Quamobrem » 10 months ago

Notably that SB, with a few minor changes, is the one I was going to test with back before Covid started, during which time, iirc, Dredge was pretty dominant? I don't really know what the meta looks like now, so please feel free to suggest a better sideboard in general : >

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The Fluff
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Post by The Fluff » 10 months ago

for sideboard.

my decks that use black often have 2-3 noxious grasp on the side. At 2 cmc, it's a cheap way of getting rid of some creatures and walkers. It kills teferi of all sizes.
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Post by Quamobrem » 10 months ago

Since I'm already in red, is Noxious Grasp better than Dreadbore? It's instant speed is nice but it feels like the wider set of targets should make Dreadbore better.

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Post by fourdogsinahorsesuit » 10 months ago

Quamobrem wrote:
10 months ago
Fallen Ideal (It's a recurring sac engine
If you're going to spend 3 mana on a sac engine the one you'll want is Blasting Station. But you don't really want to spend 3 mana on something that can't attack. If your heart is set on a second sac outlet, get a time machine and tell us if Goblin Bombardment gets reprinted in MH2. Or Mortarpod if you really want to recreate the Mirroden/Innistrad standard magic.
I'm also considering doing a Grixis version? I kind of expected Diregraf Captain to just get bolted instantly, though. Is that not y'all's experience? I also expected Soul Diviner to just not have a target too often to be useful. Is that also not y'all's experience?
It's about balancing the upside.
Captain can block and has deathtouch. These are really big deals in a deck with 4 gravecrawler, 4 Carrion Feeder, 4 Geralf's Messenger. The lord effect provides immediate board impact, so if your opponent tapped out for, say, Uro, you're going to undo that life gain with your lord effect, even if they untap and bolt.
The upside on Diviner tho is massive: Resetting messengers, extra cards off useless vials, and undoing belcher counters is worth the risk. If this engine gets online your opponent needs to combo off, or you're just going to out-grind them.

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Post by fourdogsinahorsesuit » 10 months ago

Quamobrem wrote:
10 months ago
Notably that SB, with a few minor changes, is the one I was going to test with back before Covid started, during which time, iirc, Dredge was pretty dominant? I don't really know what the meta looks like now, so please feel free to suggest a better sideboard in general : >
The GY deck seeing the most play right now is Oops!The others just aren't seeing much play.

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Post by fourdogsinahorsesuit » 4 months ago

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