[Deck] Humans

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Patbou
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Post by Patbou » 2 years ago

In the light of my latest post, here's my new list for Humans :


I'll probably test this list for a while, before even trying the new Humans from Throne of Eldraine. Against Modern's current best decks (Whirza, Burn, Jund, Tron... Niv-Mizzet?), I'm pretty sure Big Thalia will shine more than Deputy (better effect, plus stronger body, easier to cast, trigger Champion + Lieutenant and can get +1/+1 counters). Sincerely, I even doubt Charming Prince or Militia Bugler can beat her utility.

Reasoning for my decisions :
  • -1 Reflector Mage, because the best decks aren't creature-based.
  • -1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, because she's fragile to W&6 and Plague Engineer, and legendary rule makes her annoying in multiples.
  • -1 Phantasmal Image, because metagame is heavy in removals (easily destroyed and denied targets to copy).
  • -1 Kitesail Freebooter, because I want 3-4 in the main deck (for Stoneblade and combo decks, and to get information for Meddling Mage), but I also wanted to make room for a third Mariner.
  • +3 Unsettled Mariner, supposedly good in multiples or with Thalia against Burn and Jund.
  • +2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar, because I'm sold to what I feel she can do in the current metagame.
Curve remains exactly the same as before, and I don't think any changes are required in the manabase. After all, there's still 2 Deputy in the 75, and I want to be able to cast them.

Patbou
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Post by Patbou » 2 years ago

Yesterday at LGS, I played the above list, but with 2 Knight of Autumn instead of 2 Deputy of Detention in the SB (allergic to Burn, I guess).
1-2 vs Bant Stone-Herder
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  • I thought it was just Stoneblade, until I saw the first Soulherder on the last turn of game 3...
  • Won game 1, thanks to Big Thalia (Team Thalia ambushed a Germ = 5/3 First Strike ; and Coatl couldn't ambush me).
  • Lost game 2 when turn 2 Big Thalia was removed with Path. The rest of the disruption wasn't there or didn't do it's job (Reflector Mage has no good targets in that matchup, because they'll all give back more value to the opponent).
  • I mulliganed down to 5, looking for some disruption (Meddling Mage, Freebooter, Knight, etc.). I had it, but not enough gas. And Meddling Mage is pretty bad at blocking anything equipped with Sword of Fire and Ice (and it dies to its trigger).
2-1 vs Dredge
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  • Won game 1 with Big Thalia (opponent tried to ambush or chump block with Narcomoeba, thanks to Shriekhorn or Cycling, but they all ETB tapped ; and she really slowed things down by forcing lands to ETB tapped). But the silent MVP was Meddling Mage, naming Conflagrate (note to self, Meddling Mage #2 should name Cathartic Reunion).
  • I managed to drop my opponent to 5 life on game 2, and that's after he got *FOUR* Creeping Chill (what a stupid card, really). Would have been dead otherwise.
  • We got to time on game 3, but I won with Meddling Mage on Conflagrate, again (and some help from a very late Auriok Champion that probably put me 1-2 life away from lethal). This time, Big Thalia also screwed Bloodghast's Haste and Stinkweed Imp ability to block. She also prevented a double Darkblast on Meddling Mage before I put it under a Freebooter next turn (second black source ETB tapped).
2-0 vs Whirza (w/o Stoneforge)
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  • Thalia on turn 2 did a good job taxing the opponent. Lieutenant + Hierarch #2 on turn 3 pushed some heavy damage. But it's the second Lieutenant, copied a third time with Image, on turn 4, that sealed the deal.
  • Game 2, opponent mulled down to 5, but Freebooter took Whir of Invention and saw two Swords + Urza. Meddling Mage then named the Lord Artificer, and I cruised to the finish line from there.
I don't recall ever playing a single copy of Unsettled Mariner in all these 8 games, so I can't say if it's good or bad. But I wish I had played full playset of Freebooter (instead of 3), for that Stoneblade matchup.

Big Thalia was as good as I wanted her to be, but I was wrong : she can't prevent Whirza from going infinite, since it's the Sword they'll tap to activate the Foundry (infinite life + infinite tapped 1/1 flyers). But she still do everything else : prevents a Thopter ambush ; prevents Thopters from paying for Urza's ability (if they're still looking for the Sword) ; delays everything for a turn, and blockers for two turns. When Glass Casket will be legal, Big Thalia will be even better than Deputy (it gets removed, you lose). At least she can actively help you win before opponent does (delaying blockers and Whir of Invention does that ; and delaying anything means worse Bridge, because of hand size).

Deputy of Detention is a conditional answer to a problem that already resolved : it needs Vial to properly stop a combo ; it's a dead card until the problem shows up (no aggro ; Hierarch is better attacking with a 1/2 body we're not afraid to lose) ; and any removals become copies #5++ of the exiled card (making things easier for opponent). And it's not a Human (for Champion, Lieutenant, Cavern and Territory).

OTH, Thalia, Heretic Cathar amazingly supports our aggro plan (good body + blockers denial), actively slows down the opponent a full turn (a lingering problem), doesn't need Vial for proper timing (the sooner is always the better) and will never give anything back to the opponent if she's removed (damage dealt and delays imposed are locked-in in the past). She's a Human that helps and benefits from the tribe. And you really want to assemble Team Thalia (tax + delayed lands + 5/3 First Strike hug).


I may be wrong, but I'm super sold on her for the moment. I really think the community should give her a chance.

chaos021
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Post by chaos021 » 2 years ago

I've had a one-of Big Thalia in my sideboard when Hogaak got banned specifically for Tron. I keep trying to fit a second one in, but it's hard.

I never considered what it does against Whirza though. I'm not so sure it's that good against Scapeshift.

Patbou
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Post by Patbou » 2 years ago

Scapeshift's Sakura Tribe Elder that ETB tapped and can't block = more damage get's through. Ramping is at least delayed a full turn. Not only will it take one more turn to reach 6 lands, but that 6th land is likely to ETB tapped. And when finally Titan is played, it is tapped and cannot block. All in all, I think the 2 extra turns Big Thalia will give us are a lot better than whatever Deputy can do in that matchup (again, it answers resolved problem, but the Titan's ETB ability will still have resolved and this won't go away by exiling it).

There's no room in the SB for Big Thalia, IMHO. And it's in the main deck that she shines. I've tested her again, and she's just wow (against Tron, on the draw, played turn 2 with Hierarch's help = more time to set up the full disruption package and totally lock the opponent ; based on a true story, with Freebooter, Baby Thalia, Meddling Mage, Ouphe and Gaddock).

Anyway, is Deputy really that good against the top tier decks (Jund, Burn, Whirza and Tron)? Big Thalia will never fix problems the way Deputy does. But OTH, Deputy will never disrupt the opponent's game the way Big Thalia does. Plus, she's aggressive, and she's a Human (Champion and Lieutenant are better with her ; it all happened to us where we have Mantis Rider and Deputy in hand, and 3 golden lands but no Ziggurat and Vial... we just know one of our 2 creatures will be a dead card until the 5th land drop).

deaddrift
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Post by deaddrift » 2 years ago

Big Thalia has been good for me in the past, on occasion. She's amazing against Tron when on the play. On the other hand, Tron gets punished by Ouphe and Gaddock Teeg as well.

I agree that Deputy can be tricky to cast, but that's why I run the land package that I run--I have more sources of U than any other list I've seen, but still plenty of W for Auriok Champion and Gaddock Teeg. Not sure I want to keep Deputy at 4 in the 75, but I do think Deputy seems much better against Whirza than Big Thalia does.

deaddrift
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Post by deaddrift » 2 years ago

Haven't played for a while, but went 3-1 tonight. The deck still feels quite strong, but the breadth and rapid rate of change of the broader metagame seems tough to keep up with. I find it makes optimal lines much harder to spot. I think running Freebooters is good right now, so I can see what my opponent is up to. I had 3 tonight but might want a fourth.

So, Urza. I expect to see this card once or twice every 4-5 round tourney at my LGS. Tonight I lost to Whirza despite drawing all the hate. I beat Paradoxical Outcome Urza due in part to my opponent bricking--but also his unfamiliarity with his difficult-to-play but extremely powerful deck.

I already have three Ouphes, but I'm thinking maybe I want a Phyrexian Revoker in the side. It kinda overlaps with Gaddock Teeg since it hits Engineered Explosives, which seems super relevant. It hits Urza and low CMC walkers (Teferi, Jund). Revoker is a Dredge downgrade, since Teeg hits Conflagrate, thereby freeing up Meddling to name other targets. Revoker still seems OK against Tron. It's strictly worse against UW control, compared to Teeg.

What considerations am I overlooking?

SmauGii
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Post by SmauGii » 2 years ago

Hello everybody. I'm Max, i joined MTGNexus from the get go, but this is my first post on these forums.
I've been part of the Modern Humans yourney from the very beginning and have been active on the MTGsalvation forums for a good amount of years.
Lately i've noticed a shift in activity on my main topics from salvation to nexus, so today i descided to permanently continue here.

I've had a break from modern for about 13 months in which I got hooked to brewing and playing EDH exclusively with friends. But now with a magicfest event (open metagame) coming up, i'd like to bring at least one of my modern decks with me to play in case i choose to participate. Which will be either or both GBx midrange or Humans.

I've always been advocating that to be good with Humans, you need to know the metagame. So i've been trying to catch up with what is going on. And there is a lot going on :sweat:
It's good to see that Thalia, Heretic Cathar gets some love again, she has been in many a list in the past as my weapon of choice against Tron and greedy decks. From what i've been reading, she does work so i'm glad i have my copies.
In the same vein, i will get and add two copies of Collector Ouphe for the board and two copies Deputy of Detention as a catch all answer either main or board. What about Plague Engineer ???
It also strikes me that with the banning of Hogaak/looting, humans have dropped some, if not all gravehate. Is this correct in an open metagame?

The thing i'm very curious about is the addition of Unsettled Mariner.
From the spoiling of said card, i've been a little hyped and had a feeling this would be a perfect fit for Humans alongside my all time favorite card, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. But i've seen little use of the changeling. How is everybody feeling about this? Any experiences to share?

Regarding new cards releasing into modern this Friday. The card that pops into my eyes most is Charming Prince. To me, this could be a one off in the main and be exceptionaly good in retriggering ETB's, Growing and untapping humans, protecting humans when keeping up Vial and gaining life against metadecks like burn.
I'm currently feeling like this could be the (sorta)5th copy of every value human we have and is never a truly dead card, but can also be easilly swaped out for something betterin games 2 and 3. It's just that the lists are so tight :)
Commander: GUBR Vial Smasher the Fierce / Thrasios, Triton Hero Big Mana - GBR Korvold, Fae-Cursed King Aristocrats - WBRC Queen Marchesa Pillow Fort - GUBW Atraxa, Praetors' Voice +1/+1 Counters - UR Jori En, Ruin Diver Storm - GW Tolsimir, Friend to Wolves Wolf Tribal - UWR Pramikon, Sky Rampart Superfriends - BRG Gyrus, Waker of Corpses GY Recursion - WBG Tymna the Weaver / Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper Lifegain - BUG Sidisi, Brood Tyrant Petitioners self mill

Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW :foil: Bushwhacker Zoo -

deaddrift
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Post by deaddrift » 2 years ago

I'm gonna try Kataki, War's Wage in place of two Ouphes, for Urza. I see at least one and often two Urza decks each night, and Kataki seems potentially better. I also have one Phyrexian Revoker in the side,

deaddrift
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Post by deaddrift » 2 years ago

How do people feel about Charming Prince?

deaddrift
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Post by deaddrift » 1 year ago

A recent 5-0 drop had 4x Charming Prince with 2x Kessig Malcontents main... seems like an interesting angle. Prince is showing up more and more.


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