[Deck] Azorius Control

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ktkenshinx
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Post by ktkenshinx » 2 years ago

This is a placeholder thread. If you are interested in taking over the thread and/or writing a primer, PM the moderator team.
This is the thread to discuss the Azorius Control archetype in Modern.
Over-Extended/Modern Since 2010

Amalek0
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Post by Amalek0 » 2 years ago

*crickets*

Because tapping out is yucky.

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TheAnswer
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Post by TheAnswer » 2 years ago

I've been unable to play for logistical reasons for a couple weeks now, but I'm excited to get back to Controlling next week, hopefully. Looking forward to playing with T3feri and Narset.

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cfusionpm
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Post by cfusionpm » 2 years ago

I have seen the light on Force of Negation. If I continue playing this archetype, I feel no less than 3 main is a must. And probably 4 is correct. Maybe my opinion is skewed from multiple recent turn 3 deaths that could have been saved by a Force.. Either way, having one up would let me fearlessly slam that baby Teferi or Narset. I'm still not sold on this actually being good in the current meta in the current builds. Until Hogaak is banned, or GY decks in general take a huge hit, it may just be correct to cut Snapcasters for main deck RIPs instead. And it pains me to think that.

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Post by The Grumpiest » 2 years ago

cfusionpm wrote:
2 years ago
I have seen the light on Force of Negation. If I continue playing this archetype, I feel no less than 3 main is a must. And probably 4 is correct. Maybe my opinion is skewed from multiple recent turn 3 deaths that could have been saved by a Force.. Either way, having one up would let me fearlessly slam that baby Teferi or Narset. I'm still not sold on this actually being good in the current meta in the current builds. Until Hogaak is banned, or GY decks in general take a huge hit, it may just be correct to cut Snapcasters for main deck RIPs instead. And it pains me to think that.
Pretty sure it is, until Bridge from Below is banned.

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Post by Bearscape » 2 years ago

You don't need to cut Snap if you run RIP. If Hogaak doesn't eat it Tuesday, I'd run 2 RIP 2 Surgical 3 snap main.

(In reality though if Hogaak doesn't get banned I just won't play big tournaments for 3 months :P )

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Post by TheAnnihilator » 2 years ago

I think you either want RiP or Surg+Snap main, not both. Anyone think Relic is worth it?

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cfusionpm
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Post by cfusionpm » 2 years ago

Relic is too slow and non-repeatable. As you said, you either want RIPs or Snaps and Surgicals. Or even both (one set main, one set side).

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Post by Bearscape » 2 years ago

Problem is, RIP is often too slow vs Hogaak, especially on the draw. In a Hogaak meta, I'd want 4 surgical 4 rip split 2/2 main and 2/2 side. You use the surgicals to slow their explosive start, then rip to lock up.

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Post by TheAnswer » 2 years ago

So I got to play paper Magic for the first time in too long a time this past Friday, and I had a great time. I'll post my list below. It was a small turnout of 9. I think this new place definitely sees more Draft and Standard than Modern, unfortunately. :(

Round 1: 1-0-1 win against Protean Hulk Combo
What a way to return to Modern. I was pretty nervous when I saw him discard Body Double early on, and I was wracking my brain to try to remember how exactly the combo is pulled off, but I was pretty disruptive, and turned the corner at exactly the right moment and put him on a 3 turn clock with my Colonnades. (He said he could have put me to 2 his last turn before he died.) He didn't get a chance to go off, and I boarded in RiPs and Dispels and a Disdainful Stroke (he hardcast Reveillark).
The first game went pretty long, so we didn't have much time to play the second game, but after I landed a T2 RiP he didn't have many outs, and we ended the last game in a tie.

Round 2: 2-1 win against Mono-G Tron
My eternal nemesis, Tron. I won the die-roll and got to Field his Tron piece turn 3, then had enough disruption and two Cliques to finish out the game. He tried to land Karn-Lattice, but I just countered the Lattice and swung at Karn with a Clique.
Game 2, T3 Karn, I kept going for a few turns because why not, but after a few tick-ups I packed my bags.
Game 3 was closer, he landed a few threats in TKS and Walking Ballista, but my sided in Stony Silence pulled its weight. Don't think I drew either Ceremonious Rejection, and I think I hit an Ulamog with Disdainful Stroke. Eventually stabilized with JtMS ult for the win.

Round 3: 2-0 win against Shamans
Pretty spicy list, but I had some opportune sweepers, and Winds of Abandon was great. Blast Zone also pulled its weight against three 1 drops. I think I boarded in the second Verdict and Timely, and the Blessed Alliance (which wasn't spectacular). I think I took out a pair of Narsets and Veto.
Second game was much like the first, but I was in control earlier and set up with 3 walkers for the win.

Round 4: 1-2 loss against Arcanist/Delver blend
Was a pretty tight match, I don't remember the order of the games, but the ones I lost it was because of a bit of a misplay (I Fielded T3 when he had 2 lands and he Electrodominanced himself for a free Ancestral Visions, totally forgot that card was an Instant) and drawing a lot of air. I think I won after some Planeswalkers. I noticed afterwards that I didn't draw 3feri in any of the games, which was a likely source of the results. I don't remember what I took out, but I think I brought in my RiPs and Dispels and second Veto. In hindsight, probably wanted to fight more on the creature axis than the spell axis. Arcanist, Insectile Aberration, and Rhino tokens were how I lost my games.

Over the weekend I got the last of my orders, and was thinking of making the following changes:
2x Force of Negation main for Dovin's Veto and Oust, 1x Force of Negation side for Dovin's Veto. FoN seems like the future, and I wish I had had it for Friday. I wasn't too keen on Oust, and I feel, especially with Winds pulling double-duty as single target removal and sweeper, I could do without a soft-removal piece.
1x Monastery Mentor side for Lyra. I'm thinking of trying out Mentor as a lower-cost threat. I found a few times when I had a 5-cost angel in hand, but wasn't comfortable tapping out for it while I had responses in hand. Hopefully being 3 mana will help me diversify my sideboard threats.

I'm also vacillating between Opt and SV. I think I'm just too optimistic about the synergy between SV and 3feri. Although being able to dig deeper is nice, getting to leave up counters with Opt as backup is definitely good. I think most people are on Opts; is that just de facto better right now?

I also grabbed a Mu Yanling, Sky Dancer on a whim after seeing it in a winning list recently, and I am tickled pink by the card. Initially I thought it was too low-impact to consider, but I'm thinking I'll try it for something. Maybe I'm just blinded by that emblem, I don't know. Any suggestions of what to swap out for her? I'm thinking she slides into one of the 3-drop walkers' spots pretty easily, but I feel 2x Narset is kind of low, and a single 3feri just won't be there often enough when I need him, especially after not drawing either copy at all in my last match.

Edit: I'm having trouble figuring out how the deck tag works for this site, I'll clean this up once I figure that out. There we go, much nicer.

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TheAnnihilator
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Post by TheAnnihilator » 2 years ago

@TheAnswer Opt is usually played over Serum because Serum being a sorcery is bad against opposing Narsets.

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TheAnswer
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Post by TheAnswer » 2 years ago

That's totally fair, I didn't run into anyone else running her on Friday so it didn't click. I'll try doing a swap for this week and see if I lose out on much.

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Post by SanityLost » 2 years ago

Hey guys, what is your opinion on Winds of Abandon, maybe in the Oust slot? It also serves as an additional sweeper.

Next, what are your thoughts on Mu Yanling, Sky Dancer? The emblem is nuts and the -3 token has its merits, too.
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TheAnswer
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Post by TheAnswer » 2 years ago

I really like Winds. I was running it alongside Oust (my list as I had it on Friday is above) and felt I was a bit removal heavy, so I took out Oust. If you want to replace it with Winds, I think that's fine. The versatility is insane, and a one-sided exiling wrath is incredible when trying to turn the corner.

I'm also curious about Yanling, I'm going to be testing her this week and will let you know how it goes.

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Post by SanityLost » 2 years ago

TheAnswer wrote:
2 years ago
I really like Winds. I was running it alongside Oust (my list as I had it on Friday is above) and felt I was a bit removal heavy, so I took out Oust. If you want to replace it with Winds, I think that's fine. The versatility is insane, and a one-sided exiling wrath is incredible when trying to turn the corner.

I'm also curious about Yanling, I'm going to be testing her this week and will let you know how it goes.
Thank you for your thoughts! The only reason why I do not cut Oust immediately in the favor of Winds is its additional power in the Burn/Mono Red matchup, gaining you life by recycling a Snapcaster Mage. Also, it buys you time by "pseudo timewalking" the opponent when you Oust a creature and make his/her upcoming draws worse. I guess it's a matter of testing, like you said.

@Yanling: Yeah, feel free to let me/us know. Are you cutting any PW for her? I thought about cutting one T3feri and keeping the Narsets, since Yanling competes primarily with those cards in the cmc3 slot.
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TheAnswer
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Post by TheAnswer » 2 years ago

Yeah I hadn't decided what to cut for her, most likely 3feri or Narset. I feel dropping to a single 3feri makes him a bit too low-impact, as he turns off entire lines from the opponent by himself, while Narset just digs and turns off cantrips, but I could be wrong and a 1/1 Yanling/3feri split is better than 2/1 Narset/Yanling.

If you have a lot of Burn, Oust is definitely better than Winds. Winds gets a lot of it's strength from being able to Overload it, and that won't happen against a Burn player.

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Post by SanityLost » 2 years ago

Just for reference, this is my current list that I am taking to FNM this week.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/2100735#paper

The only changes I made to my prior list is adding Winds of Abandon and Mu Yanling, moving one Extraction to the SB and cutting one T3feri.
The sideboard is pretty much tuned for my local meta. However, feedback is more than welcome!
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Post by Wraithpk » 2 years ago

What's the appeal of Mu Yanling, exactly? Obviously the ultimate is game winning, but I don't like to judge a planeswalker by their ult.
Modern
ubr Grixis Shadow ubr
uwg Bant Stoneblade uwg
gbr Jund gbr

Pioneer
urIzzet Phoenixur
rMono-Red Aggror
uwAzorius Controluw

Commander
bg Meren of Clan Nel Toth bg

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SanityLost
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Post by SanityLost » 2 years ago

Actually, as I figured out at last week's FNM, she is pretty good in control mirrors. She blanks opposing Snapcasters and the 4/4 token is a very good threat. It must feel kinda bad to be obliged to bounce or Path the token.

I still have to figure out other matchups she excells in.
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Post by FlayJay » 2 years ago

Tried the Winds of Abandon last Friday and it was great. Felt good to have the flexibility to use it as a boardwipe if needed.
Would you guys say that the surgical extraction is a must have in the mainboard?
I don't have it right now and thinking of buying into it.
Also 2 or 3 FoN?

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Post by SanityLost » 2 years ago

FlayJay wrote:
2 years ago
Tried the Winds of Abandon last Friday and it was great. Felt good to have the flexibility to use it as a boardwipe if needed.
Would you guys say that the surgical extraction is a must have in the mainboard?
I don't have it right now and thinking of buying into it.
Also 2 or 3 FoN?
@Extraction: IMO it greatly depends on your meta. It is a good card vs. Phoenix, Tron and GY decks. But it is a horribly dead card in other „fair" matchups. I personally cut down to one in the main for the ability to extract tron lands. Luckily I do not have any GY decks in my meta. However, I would argue that 2 Extractions in the SB and none main are totally fine.

@FoN: I think 2-3 in the main are currently the way to go. I play 2 main and 1 side currently. It gives you a great tool to fight PWs which are traditionally hard to handle for UW. I love it.
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FlayJay
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Post by FlayJay » 2 years ago

SanityLost wrote:
2 years ago
FlayJay wrote:
2 years ago
Tried the Winds of Abandon last Friday and it was great. Felt good to have the flexibility to use it as a boardwipe if needed.
Would you guys say that the surgical extraction is a must have in the mainboard?
I don't have it right now and thinking of buying into it.
Also 2 or 3 FoN?
@Extraction: IMO it greatly depends on your meta. It is a good card vs. Phoenix, Tron and GY decks. But it is a horribly dead card in other „fair" matchups. I personally cut down to one in the main for the ability to extract tron lands. Luckily I do not have any GY decks in my meta. However, I would argue that 2 Extractions in the SB and none main are totally fine.

@FoN: I think 2-3 in the main are currently the way to go. I play 2 main and 1 side currently. It gives you a great tool to fight PWs which are traditionally hard to handle for UW. I love it.
Sounds very reasonable.
Too bad these Extractions are around 40€ right now.
I will definitely buy the 3rd FoN. This card never felt dead in hand when I played it, love it!

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Post by Bearscape » 2 years ago

@Winds of Abandon: I'm sold, it's probably permanently replacing my Oust now.

@Force of Negation: I now have 2 main and 1 side, that feels very good.

@Surgical Extraction main: I'm no longer that sure. The odds you win vs a gravedeck because of 2 main surgicals are very slim, and the big sell on them was the power against Gtron and Phoenix. However the big threat of Phoenix for us now is Aria of Flame, not so much Arclight Phoenix itself, and Etron seems to be taking over Gtron. If you really want to steal G1 vs grave decks, it might just be right to mainboard a RIP or 2 now.

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SanityLost
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Post by SanityLost » 2 years ago

That what bearscape says.

Still, If you are expecting a lot of Phoenix Surgical main is still decent since they are threat light. Versus grave decks such as Dredge und Hoogak, I am not a bug fan of one shot grave hate. In those MUs, as bearscape said, you might want more solid hate which btw they can't remove game one since they keep their enchantment removal etc. in the side. Look for instance this list (note: I always run 4 Snaps so this is not an option for me):

https://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=31239&iddeck=267329

However, the main reason for me running Surgicals main is to extract Tron lands to steal this very important game 1 vs. GTron. Game 2 even becomes better.
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Post by Bearscape » 2 years ago

I don't like Surgical vs Etron much, honestly. They can function completely fine without assembling tron and it's yet another card to get locked behind Chalice. I tend to board them out.

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