Topical Discussion of the Official Multiplayer Ban List

Vertain
Posts: 26
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Vertain » 6 months ago

RxPhantom wrote:
6 months ago
If you honestly expect them to take these things into account and do something as extreme as a ban, then I'd say you're being, at best, unrealistic and at worst, willfully obtuse. Your expectations of them are a bridge too far.
I didn't expect them to ban those cards. Based on their actions (or, more accurately, lack thereof) in the past, I expected them to do exactly nothing while saying "we heard you, but, you know, just use rule 0", which is exactly what happened.
RxPhantom wrote:
6 months ago
Simply put, these cards to not meet the criteria for a ban, no matter how reprehensible the product itself is (and it is). Banning cards just to teach WotC a lesson would be petty, and would undermine the integrity with witch the RC has carried itself thus far. To be fair, part of me wanted to see a ban because I would want to stick it to WotC, but it wouldn't serve the greater good. The RC took the best course of action and I think the community will agree in time.
They don't meet the criteria anymore because the RC made sure of that. Most of my ire comes from that, in fact. Had "perceived barrier to entry" never been a thing in the first place, I would have seen them indifferent to this subject and be fine with that. But actively abolishing such a principle at a time price speculation was already rampant shows they just didn't want to have to eventually talk about such issues and remain in their ivory tower. That, to me, is contradictory to one of their often quoted center pillars of the format: inclusivity.

User avatar
Airi
Queen of Salt
Posts: 389
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: she / her

Post by Airi » 6 months ago

I didnt really expect the RC to act on these cards, but I honestly have never been more disappointed in both them and WotC.
RGW Marath [PR] |WUBRG Jodah | WUBRG Najeela | GB Dina
WBG Tayam | BGU Otrimi the Ever-Cute | UW Yorion | RW Zirda | UR Veyran

User avatar
JWK
Elder Thing
Posts: 340
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Des Moines, Iowa

Post by JWK » 6 months ago

Airi wrote:
6 months ago
I didnt really expect the RC to act on these cards, but I honestly have never been more disappointed in both them and WotC.
I'm not really disappointed in the RC. Their rationale makes sense. I would have liked these things to be banned before they even go on sale, but expecting the RC to police WotC business practices is a bit much.

WotC, on the other hand... well, I don't really bear them any good will at all right now. This whole thing was a bad idea from the start, and their response to the pushback has been everything from tone-deaf to condescending to straight-up lies and gaslighting. Yes, the player base thought Secret Lair was about alternate art versions of existing cards instead of all-new cards because *that is explicitly what we were were told it was about.* We've gotten only statements that we "could" see functional normal-MtG versions of the cards, not confirmation that we will, or when or where, and I've seen no statements that they recognize this sort of thing is a bad idea and won't continue the practice. Until or unless we get such statements, I won't be purchasing any Secret Lair projects. I hope others will do the same, and I would love it if this SL ended up selling very few units, but I don't have faith that many players will put the health of the format ahead of their desire for new toys.
I have 68 active EDH decks, with more in progress. I don't consider this a problem. Do you?
I am also one of those barbarians who enjoys winning by turning creatures sideways.

User avatar
Airi
Queen of Salt
Posts: 389
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: she / her

Post by Airi » 6 months ago

JWK wrote:
6 months ago
I'm not really disappointed in the RC. Their rationale makes sense. I would have liked these things to be banned before they even go on sale, but expecting the RC to police WotC business practices is a bit much.
Well, there is a difference in that I am merely disappointed in the RC, and I can't express my full feelings on WotC without violating several forum rules, so there is that.

But they had a chance to step in and actually advocate for their players (I consider the "We've added our voices to yours" line about as effective as our collective voices have been to WotC in the first place), and did not. And while yeah, it's their choice to run their format, I am going to be severely disappointed in that decision as I disagree with their reasoning.
RGW Marath [PR] |WUBRG Jodah | WUBRG Najeela | GB Dina
WBG Tayam | BGU Otrimi the Ever-Cute | UW Yorion | RW Zirda | UR Veyran

Legend
Lord of Ravnica
Posts: 553
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Antiquity

Post by Legend » 6 months ago

I just wish the community was this upset about Rule 13. Get it... "wish"? :rimshot:
Also, if card availability / perceived barrier to entry is no longer criteria for banning, it's time to take a card or more off of the ban list.
Cube of Legend: The worst cube ever.

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 2216
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 6 months ago

While this didn't swing the way I'd have liked it to, I'm not disappointed in the RC. I can be fairly certain they at least discussed the matter through and through and passed on what knowledge they have of the issue to Wizards. Ultimately I think even if they did try to really twist the thumbscrews the corporate side of Hasbro was still going to push for this and will continue to do so, so it was probably a fait accompli before we even knew the cards existed from the perspective of seeing this sort of betrayal of the customer base. I've worked for companies that have done precisely this in different contexts, and no matter how much logic and rhetoric you throw at the situation, corporate cannot, and will not, look past projected sales and profit. It's a downward spiral, but they're more than happy to ride a brand for every dollar until it collapses into the dirt. Then they'll just look for the next big thing.

As far as whether they're banned or not, I honestly don't think it's going to make a huge difference to me. If I see the cards at a table, it probably is best I just not play that person, I doubt I could keep quiet. But given I live in Middle Earth I think the likelihood pretty slim.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

onering
Posts: 656
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by onering » 6 months ago

toctheyounger wrote:
6 months ago

As far as whether they're banned or not, I honestly don't think it's going to make a huge difference to me. If I see the cards at a table, it probably is best I just not play that person, I doubt I could keep quiet. But given I live in Middle Earth I think the likelihood pretty slim.
Yet another reason to love Kiwiland

onering
Posts: 656
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by onering » 6 months ago

Legend wrote:
6 months ago
I just wish the community was this upset about Rule 13. Get it... "wish"? :rimshot:
Also, if card availability / perceived barrier to entry is no longer criteria for banning, it's time to take a card or more off of the ban list.
Rule 13 is divisive though. Some people hate it, some people like it, some don't care. Response to TWD has been pretty unified. Nobody likes it, and lots of people hate it.

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 2216
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 6 months ago

onering wrote:
6 months ago
toctheyounger wrote:
6 months ago

As far as whether they're banned or not, I honestly don't think it's going to make a huge difference to me. If I see the cards at a table, it probably is best I just not play that person, I doubt I could keep quiet. But given I live in Middle Earth I think the likelihood pretty slim.
Yet another reason to love Kiwiland
Ha, yeah. There'll probably be a few about, but I generally don't play with collector types so I probably won't see em. As someone who definitely plays with budget constraint (I can afford a few bits but I can't just throw money at the game), I'm not sure I'd be able to remain quiet about it.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

Snes
Posts: 22
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Snes » 6 months ago

toctheyounger wrote:
6 months ago
Ha, yeah. There'll probably be a few about, but I generally don't play with collector types so I probably won't see em. As someone who definitely plays with budget constraint (I can afford a few bits but I can't just throw money at the game), I'm not sure I'd be able to remain quiet about it.
I'm curious whether or not you feel similarly when an opponent plays a card from the reserved list. Do you voice any objection when another player plays an ABR dual land? Or casts Wheel of Fortune? Or Gaea's Cradle?
Do you remember where we all came from?
Do you remember what it's all about?

User avatar
duducrash
Posts: 86
Joined: 9 months ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Brazil

Post by duducrash » 6 months ago

Snes wrote:
6 months ago
toctheyounger wrote:
6 months ago
Ha, yeah. There'll probably be a few about, but I generally don't play with collector types so I probably won't see em. As someone who definitely plays with budget constraint (I can afford a few bits but I can't just throw money at the game), I'm not sure I'd be able to remain quiet about it.
I'm curious whether or not you feel similarly when an opponent plays a card from the reserved list. Do you voice any objection when another player plays an ABR dual land? Or casts Wheel of Fortune? Or Gaea's Cradle?
Why would someone have a problem with a original magic card that was distributed worldwide? comparing a premium product exclusive and cards that were avaliable in packs is comparing two different things

Snes
Posts: 22
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Snes » 6 months ago

duducrash wrote:
6 months ago
Why would someone have a problem with a original magic card that was distributed worldwide? comparing a premium product exclusive and cards that were avaliable in packs is comparing two different things
Because they're both products with artificial scarcity, If your objection is "I'm a budget player, so I would object to someone having access to these cards just because they can pay more," then that objection should still hold for cards on the reserved list. Even more so, as they have said that functional reprints of the TWD cards are a possibility, but they're never printing another Gaea's Cradle.
Do you remember where we all came from?
Do you remember what it's all about?

User avatar
toctheyounger
Posts: 2216
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Post by toctheyounger » 6 months ago

Snes wrote:
6 months ago
I'm curious whether or not you feel similarly when an opponent plays a card from the reserved list. Do you voice any objection when another player plays an ABR dual land? Or casts Wheel of Fortune? Or Gaea's Cradle?
Frankly, no. Being totally honest, the RL games I do play are mostly with folk who have a similar sort of collection to myself; some format staples, few RL goodies. So, even footing. The online games I play, which are far more frequent, I could be up against anyone and they potentially could have anything. It's taught me to be a lot more tolerant for cards I don't own and cards I'm fighting uphill against. I'll mostly go up against anything and see it as a challenge, so long as I have a fighting chance. So I've got thick skin with fighting down fairly savage decks and I like to think I can hold my own pretty well.

The difference here is that, while ostensibly I did have an opportunity to buy these cards, the price is so high just for shipping, customs taxes, exchange rates and WotC's extortionate pricing for 5 cards, the opportunity was so fleeting and minimal it basically didn't exist.

While RL cards are still quite scarce, the difference here is that I'm paying no capital on top to get them. I pay a lot, sure, but a) it's for strong cards that I know will hold their value and can be used in a multitude of scenarios, and b) none of what i shell out for the cards is being spent on extraneous costs just to get the cards into the same physical space that I'm in. I think when I say I wouldn't stay quiet about it, I less mean that I'd give someone grief for playing the cards and more try to discuss with them enabling corporate greed. As a budget player, I probably already shell out more money than I ought on the game, so I'd be hard pressed to stay quiet on the issue sitting down to play against someone with these cards in play.
Malazan Decks of the Fallen
| Shadowthrone/Lazav | Raest/Yidris | T'iam / The Ur-Dragon |

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Rules and Philosophy”