[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

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drmarkb
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Post by drmarkb » 2 months ago

robertleva wrote:
2 months ago
drmarkb wrote:
2 months ago
I noticed this when x maging with a janky straight up pillow fort enchantment deck, hard counters everywhere it felt. I could land early suppression fields, the odd halo, RIP or greater auramancy in under counters early. Other stuff would randomly get through to make a board, but in the end the only way I could reliably win (win cons were limited to heliod, starfield) was to wait till I drew the obliterate, and cast it when most of their lands were down. A few games were decking affairs where the drawing decks just run out of library.
Counterspell and Force of Negation make a pretty solid foundation for blue control shells these days. When countermagic rises fight it with hand disruption.
Always true,of of course. Hand kill>> counters.
Obliterate is a little more fun, for me at least.

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Simto
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Post by Simto » 2 months ago

Oh boy, a couple of cool cards from the new Innistrad set that could make their way into modern.
Consider "better" than Opt for some decks? I could see all those fast izzet decks using it to feed their Dragon's Rage Channeler etc.
Infernal Grasp looks interesting too.

But I thought the coolest card they showed was Champion of the perished. Zombie version of the Human staple. Can this card push a Zombie tribal deck into the meta somehow?
I always had a soft spot for zombie tribal decks since mono black zombies in Standard was the %$#%. And I love my Scarab God commander deck. Would be fun to see Zombies make a push in Modern too.
Really cool card though, I like it a lot.

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Bearscape
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Post by Bearscape » 2 months ago

I recall around the release of MH1 someone asking me what we would need for Modern zombies to become viable and I literally suggested champion of the parish for zombies

Consider is a pretty significant bump from Opt, especially if it comes with some more viable flashback cards. For DRC decks it being an instant is practically a downside though

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Post by Simto » 2 months ago

Bearscape wrote:
2 months ago
I recall around the release of MH1 someone asking me what we would need for Modern zombies to become viable and I literally suggested champion of the parish for zombies
Pretty good call. I guess we're going to see if it's enough to push it up now. I'm really excited to see if it can become a "real" modern deck now.

And I will still use Opts as much as I can just so I can use my Japanese Mystical Archive version aka the coolest card ever printed :)

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cfusionpm
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Post by cfusionpm » 2 months ago

Consider is categorically better than Opt in nearly every possible application. Unless you are specifically looking for toolbox tutor targets (in which case, why are you playing Cantrips in the first place??), putting a card in your yard is better than the bottom of your library in almost every scenario today. Really glad I never sprang for OG foil Opts!

UR Murktide definitely not the best best deck, as Grixis variants (with or without Shadow) seem to be very strong against it. Ragavan + DRC still a great package, but I like that it has broken into several variants as people tweak and tune completely different kinds of builds. Discard/attrition, tempo/counter, fast/aggressive, etc.

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Ed06288
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Post by Ed06288 » 2 months ago

Why doesn't Lurrus see more mainboard play?

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Post by cfusionpm » 2 months ago

Why give up the consistency for 3+ drops? A lot of decks playing Monkey/DRC with Lurrus are just swapping Murktide for Kroxa or Dauthi or Scourge, etc. There's more than enough value in the 2-and-under CMC range to make it worth while. Especially since it only applies to permanents (and noticed spells).

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Post by motleyslayer » 2 months ago

I've heard multiple podcasts say Lurrus is one of the best cards in the format and Lurrus/bauble one of the best interactions. Modern as a format has condensed in cmc/mana value so much that you can get so many good cards to enable Lurrus as a companion

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Post by cfusionpm » 2 months ago

Built in recursion with immediate access and unable to be interacted with until it's in your hand.... who could have thought it'd be good! :rofl:

But yeah, if I had to guess, whenever we get another B&R announcement, I would not be surprised if Lurrus, Bauble, or both get the ax.

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Post by motleyslayer » 2 months ago

I feel there's interesting reasons for either or both to be banned. Bauble was borderline busted before Lurrus and would probably be borderline busted without Lurrus. Lurrus would probably just find other busted recursion engines without bauble and would probably only be a matter of time before it got another absurd recursion engine

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Tzoulis
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Post by Tzoulis » 2 months ago

There's nothing remotely broken about Bauble... It wasn't busted before, and it still isn't.

Lurrus/Bauble isn't even such an "absurd" recursion/CA engine. Plenty of decks can grind through it (or even don't care about it), and plenty of decks don't even need it. Hell, several Lurrus decks don't even need/want Bauble to be competitive.

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Post by gedca » 2 months ago

It's worth running Opt over Consider if you don't interact with your own graveyard. There's enough cards out there like Tarmogoyf that benefit from cards in the opponents graveyard that Opt is a better choice for a few decks.

Of course even running a few Snapcaster Mages makes Consider better so I'm sure it'll see a lot more play.

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Post by Simto » 2 months ago

gedca wrote:
2 months ago
It's worth running Opt over Consider if you don't interact with your own graveyard. There's enough cards out there like Tarmogoyf that benefit from cards in the opponents graveyard that Opt is a better choice for a few decks.

Of course even running a few Snapcaster Mages makes Consider better so I'm sure it'll see a lot more play.
As long as your Opt looks like this it's worth it over Consider
Opt+%3Cjapanese%3E+%5BSTA%5D.jpg

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Post by cfusionpm » 2 months ago

Tzoulis wrote:
2 months ago
There's nothing remotely broken about Bauble... It wasn't busted before, and it still isn't.
This reminds me of when I considered Gitaxian Probe fine. =|

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Post by Albegas » 2 months ago

I mean, any card in a growing card pool can be fine until it isn't. GGT was fine until Shadows Over Innistrad. Mox Opal was fine until Urza. Mycosynth Lattice was fine until Karn, the Great Creator. The list goes one because cards don't exist in a vacuum, not even banned ones. It always takes a deck(s) to break a card. I know that many subscribe to the idea that if new cards break a deck, the new cards should be banned, but that logic never really sat well with me. It just seems like it leads to an environment where any current deck that does well can't ever truly evolve or change after it reaches the current meta's power ceiling. Granted, there are cases where the new card(s) definitely needed to go (ex. Hogaak), but old cards shouldn't be sacrosanct just because they haven't been issues in the past.

That being said, I think Bauble and everything else is fine right now. I have yet to see any Challenge where a particular deck or strategy has dominated. I still need to get around to attending some paper tourneys, but unless I'm mistaken, the online meta has shown that this is probably the best meta we've had in a really long time.

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cfusionpm
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Post by cfusionpm » 2 months ago

It might be right on the edge of OK, because it does so much for so many decks, and for no meaningful cost. I don't think it is deserves to be banned right now, but I would not be surprised in the least bit if doesn't live past whenever the next Modern B&R drops.

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Post by Arkmer » 2 months ago

cfusionpm wrote:
2 months ago
This reminds me of when I considered Gitaxian Probe fine.
This is how I feel about it. I don't see anything wrong with it *right now*, in fact I think the meta is super awesome and I jam as much as I can right now, but I can totally see it getting banned in the future simply for being free. Free stuff busts stuff. If not today then tomorrow.

Lurrus, in my opinion, is just another grave engine. Sure, he can only be "drawn" at the right time, but he's totally beatable even with Bauble. I would even say he's healthy for the format. Just like Ragavan, I think he increases the need for removal but fits best in aggressive decks, and I think that's a design success that contributes positively to the current meta. Fact of the matter is that Modern is going to have a best card and best interaction, if that's Lurrus/Bauble for now then so be it, but I don't think we need to ban a split 6cmc card because the zero mana one makes it worth effectively 2 cards.

In short, I'm for no bans right now, which historically is not my usual position.

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Post by EonAon » 2 months ago

Bauble isnt the issue card, more Lurrus. I'm not calling for a ban though since there are ways around it but as a draw engine it might be a bit too consistent since you can recycle bauble and gain insight to opponents decks fairly easy.

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Post by Simto » 2 months ago

Albegas wrote:
2 months ago
Mycosynth Lattice was fine until Karn, the Great Creator.
Lattice is still fine. There I said it lol... I'm not biased at all.

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Post by Tzoulis » 2 months ago

cfusionpm wrote:
2 months ago
This reminds me of when I considered Gitaxian Probe fine. =|
I mean, I get it, I too was bummed when Probe was banned (I was playing Delver), but there's a canyon of a difference between look at your opponent's hand and immediately draw a card, and look at the top card of a player's library and draw a card next turn.

There really isn't much room for comparison. Even with Lurrus, it isn't even close to Probe level power. Plus, I've frequently let Lurrus alive for turns on end with my opponents cycling Bauble and it didn't even matter.
cfusionpm wrote:
2 months ago
It might be right on the edge of OK, because it does so much for so many decks, and for no meaningful cost. I don't think it is deserves to be banned right now, but I would not be surprised in the least bit if doesn't live past whenever the next Modern B&R drops.
What if the next B&R is (just) an unban, what then? :P
Albegas wrote:
2 months ago
Mox Opal was fine until Urza.
Urza didn't break Opal, Oko, Goose and Emry and Astrolabe pushed it over the edge. Lattice could be fine.
EonAon wrote:
2 months ago
Bauble isnt the issue card, more Lurrus. I'm not calling for a ban though since there are ways around it but as a draw engine it might be a bit too consistent since you can recycle bauble and gain insight to opponents decks fairly easy.
I can get insight of my opponent's decks from what fetchlands they play. I could do that before Lurrus. Bauble has helped me smooth out my draws via fetching away bad cards way more often than the times I've gained relevant information on opponents' decks.

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Post by Arkmer » 2 months ago

So despite the low rumbling of "maybe Lurrus and/or Bauble could be banned" everyone seems to think the meta is pretty awesome right now? General consensus is that while MH2 brought a ton of new cards into the meta, overall it didn't break anything?

Is there anything anyone *wants* to see in the format that currently isn't here?

I'm on "yes, yes, not that I can think of". I think that be it fluke or otherwise, things are great. I just wish I could play more.

Simto with the jokes again. I saw Tron had some spots in the last challenge, seems people are moving back? Maybe still some shifting meta to get through yet?

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Post by Simto » 2 months ago

Arkmer wrote:
2 months ago
I saw Tron had some spots in the last challenge, seems people are moving back?
I think Tron is just one of those types of decks that can always hit on an unsuspecting deck/player no matter the meta. People aren't reeeeaally packing that much straight up Tron hate as far as I can see from the various lists I look at, so it can definitely slip under the radar and get some good finishes.
Although, people can easily shift their sideboards to hate it out if it becomes too prevalent. I think the days of Tron dominating are pretty much up.

And sidenote, I'll be the first to say I'm the lamest and most unfunny dude around hehe.

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Post by Ulka » 2 months ago

Simto wrote:
2 months ago
And sidenote, I'll be the first to say I'm the lamest and most unfunny dude around hehe.

I mean I play 4 Eternal Witness , Kogla, the Titan Ape, Primal Command and Plow Under in green devotion so Idk i might be tied for unfun.


(welp I just realized you said unfunny not unfun.)
Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Zoo | Sultai Teachings
EDH:Bladewing | Blind Seer | Zuberi | He Who Hungers
EDH continued:Mishra | Kynaios and Tiro | Dosan | Zedruu | Mikeaus | 4 color ZadaMayael

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Post by cfusionpm » 2 months ago

Tzoulis wrote:
2 months ago
What if the next B&R is (just) an unban, what then? :P
It's definitely a rarity! And if so, that'd be fantastic. Besides Valakut and Jace/BBE, every single unban was accompanied by a massive and format-warping ban.
Arkmer wrote:
2 months ago
So despite the low rumbling of "maybe Lurrus and/or Bauble could be banned" everyone seems to think the meta is pretty awesome right now? General consensus is that while MH2 brought a ton of new cards into the meta, overall it didn't break anything?

Is there anything anyone *wants* to see in the format that currently isn't here?

I'm on "yes, yes, not that I can think of". I think that be it fluke or otherwise, things are great. I just wish I could play more.
I was a little worried about the DRC/Ragavan decks taking over (and eating a ban), but WOW did the meta adjust to keep them in check. They're still incredibly powerful, but absolutely beatable.

And yeah, the only thing I wish for the format is I wish I could play more of it. School is starting back up again next week. I have teacher meetings most of this week and beginning of next week. Kids back on Thursday. Doubt I'll be playing much once I go back to 5am wake-ups. :please:

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Post by Simto » 2 months ago

This dude in Denmark has been doing insanely well with Hardened Scales since Modern Horizons 2 came out. It's one of my favourite decks and he destroys with it. He had a 15-0 streak with it recently.
It's weird you don't see the deck pop up that much though. Maybe he's just a really good player. Maybe people just aren't packing hate for it so it can fly under the radar? Either way, it's such a cool deck and I'm glad seeing it do well.
https://www.youtube.com/user/seriour

I really want to get it in paper... I'm tired of being broke bros :(

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