[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

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motleyslayer
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Post by motleyslayer » 3 months ago

part of me is still surprised at the lack of path in the format. Yes Prismatic Ending is the new toy and hits more without the downside of ramping them. But there's still so much that path hits at instant speed that I feel it as necessary

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Post by drmarkb » 3 months ago

Path is a way to make sure you lose in a couple of turns time. This format needs swords.

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Post by Aazadan » 3 months ago

motleyslayer wrote:
3 months ago
part of me is still surprised at the lack of path in the format. Yes Prismatic Ending is the new toy and hits more without the downside of ramping them. But there's still so much that path hits at instant speed that I feel it as necessary
Ending is great because it's versatile when you need that, and it's cheap when you need that. It also circumvents cards like chalice. Being a sorcery is a small price to pay.

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Post by motleyslayer » 3 months ago

Aazadan wrote:
3 months ago
motleyslayer wrote:
3 months ago
part of me is still surprised at the lack of path in the format. Yes Prismatic Ending is the new toy and hits more without the downside of ramping them. But there's still so much that path hits at instant speed that I feel it as necessary
Ending is great because it's versatile when you need that, and it's cheap when you need that. It also circumvents cards like chalice. Being a sorcery is a small price to pay.
I can't deny how versatile (and just amazing) ending is but maybe I just like path in some numbers too. Maybe I just look bac at it with rose coloured glasses

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Post by Aazadan » 3 months ago

I think that you can still justify Path in some number but at the moment that number isn't 4. It does deal with some things that ending can't after all.

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Post by motleyslayer » 3 months ago

to be fair I don't think 4 has been correct in a while, there are so many options now that don't ramp. I just like how it's essentially unconditional in a sense it hits everything at such a low mana cost, just ramping your opponent is sometimes painful

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Post by cfusionpm » 3 months ago

Ragavan still staying strong at $120tx for MTGO. Looks like I ain't playing any. At least in paper, I could try to trade for them (and they're about half that). But wow am I not gonna go there online. Shame. Monke is nuts.

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Post by Simto » 3 months ago

Any of you play against Green Tron lately on MTGO? Just curious about it's position in the meta. It looks like people forgot about the deck and don't really pack hate. Has it become irrelevant or are people just playing with the new stuff?

Also, I'd be packing graveyard hate if I were playing right now. Lots of it too.

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Post by motleyslayer » 3 months ago

I feel gy hate is a must rn with all the food and living end decks

in regards to Ragavan though, I can't see it dropping much (if at all) for a while because of how played it is

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Post by Arkmer » 3 months ago

drmarkb wrote:
3 months ago
Path is a way to make sure you lose in a couple of turns time. This format needs swords.
I actually really like that you can spend a good amount of resources on a creature and it'll stick around without needing to have some form of value stapled to it. Swords would throw that out the window again and we'd be right back to hyper mana efficiency is all that matters. Right now you can play larger things with some confidence, it's a rare thing in Modern and it adds variety. Swords would immediately murder that.

Murktide isn't an issue that needs to be administratively solved, it's a feature of another deck that people need to better account for during their own construction. The cards exist in the format. There's no shortage of them. Just bring them. We don't suddenly need Swords to Plowshares.
Simto wrote:
3 months ago
Any of you play against Green Tron lately on MTGO? Just curious about it's position in the meta. It looks like people forgot about the deck and don't really pack hate. Has it become irrelevant or are people just playing with the new stuff?
I legitimately think Counterspell killed Tron. The deck wants to play 1 big thing a turn until you're dead and that's exactly what Counterspell players want you to do. Getting to 2cmc was a big deal because it means being on the draw doesn't matter now, we can have reliable answers at all times. Sidebording becomes much easier too because we don't need as much because we are already packing like 12 counters. It's still a match to be had, but it isn't just a trounce like it once was. Control is now on even footing and I think that damages Tron more than the hate they've printed. At least that's my experience.

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Post by Aazadan » 3 months ago

Conversely, the state of removal in the format is such that hyper efficient ways to deal 1 damage are really good, but then most other threats aren't exactly 2 or 3 toughness, so I feel like Bolt is kind of weak at the moment. I've been contemplating Magma Spray and Pillar of Flame personally, maybe some Forked Bolt.

Exile is at an all time best and the things you really want to remove are smaller than is typical.

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Post by motleyslayer » 3 months ago

I feel that Lava Dart warped the format a lot when prowess was by far the most played deck. Magma Spray and Pillar of Flame are super interesting and Forked Bolt is a card I've loved for a while

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Post by Aazadan » 3 months ago

motleyslayer wrote:
3 months ago
I feel that Lava Dart warped the format a lot when prowess was by far the most played deck. Magma Spray and Pillar of Flame are super interesting and Forked Bolt is a card I've loved for a while
Ya, I've been playing with a WBR brew lately. I had tried to play in a 1k today, but due to my lack of desire to install that stupid MTG Companion app, the event filled up (early registration isn't possible unless you use their app)

The theory I'm working with right now, is that with 1 toughness being so common on strong threats, 1 power is also going to be more relevant than normal. Also, flying is pretty common right now. So, I've been thinking that Lingering Souls is decently positioned.

https://www.cardhoarder.com/d/60e496ac98331

That's what I had thrown together a few days ago, still playing with the sideboard a bit. Also going back and forth on this version versus one that can use Lurrus + Bauble.

That aside, I am incredibly annoyed that the only way to play Magic in paper now is to use their stupid app.

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Post by cfusionpm » 3 months ago

Aazadan wrote:
3 months ago
That aside, I am incredibly annoyed that the only way to play Magic in paper now is to use their stupid app.
I ran into that issue the other day playing FNM for the first time. I totally forgot that they got rid of DCIs, and I didn't have the app. Not only did I have to just log in as "guest", but it seems the app has no timer to show how much round time is left... Which is discouraging since the Urza/Food deck matchups tend to go very long for me, and I want to make sure I keep pace snappy.

It was better when pairings were up on a screen and a giant clock telling us remaining time...

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Post by drmarkb » 3 months ago

Arkmer wrote:
3 months ago
drmarkb wrote:
3 months ago
Path is a way to make sure you lose in a couple of turns time. This format needs swords.
We don't suddenly need Swords to Plowshares.

We always needed swords, not suddenly. Needed it when Twin was about, needed it during Eldrazi winter, needed it during Uro.

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Post by drmarkb » 3 months ago

Aazadan wrote:
3 months ago

That aside, I am incredibly annoyed that the only way to play Magic in paper now is to use their stupid app.
Absolutely. What about people without mobiles? "A Richard Garfield game: you must have a phone to play".
Removing DCIs absolutely sucked, and the app is unwelcome.

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Post by Aazadan » 3 months ago

drmarkb wrote:
3 months ago
Aazadan wrote:
3 months ago

That aside, I am incredibly annoyed that the only way to play Magic in paper now is to use their stupid app.
Absolutely. What about people without mobiles? "A Richard Garfield game: you must have a phone to play".
Removing DCIs absolutely sucked, and the app is unwelcome.
I specifically don't bring my phone with me because I want to be disconnected when playing Magic, but it's not even that. I don't want to maintain an online account with Wizards where they get to track every single thing about where and how I play. It's different if I were playing on MTGO because playing on their software is an implied part of that. A paper game is not. I can't control, or even see what data they access, when they do it, or anything else. Quite simply, I'm cautious about what data gets linked where, and given that Wizards has suffered multiple large data breaches in the past few years, it seems my caution was correct.

I don't want Wizards to have my email, my phone number, or force me into one specific account. I don't want online and paper accounts connected. None of this has to do with playing the game, and it's pure data harvesting on their part. If they want me to register online, fine I've got no problems with that. But, unfortunately it seems that's not even an option without their app. Worse, it doesn't even adhere to GDPR (I'm in the US, but they forced this on Europe too), and when it was brought up to them their solution was to make only either your real name or screen name display now, but they still link the two on the back end so there's not any actual separation of the information... the only reason they even changed that was because screen names from MTGA could then be used to find a persons real name, and multiple women found themselves harassed as a result.

So now it's a matter of actually getting to play in larger tournaments or trying to maintain some semblance of online privacy.

Also, my personal line in the sand on this stuff is advertisements. Data aside, I simply won't tolerate ad's. I will pay to block them, I will use other methods to block them, and if I can do neither I will simply not use the service. Their app gives occasional advertisements when new sets launch and you're in the app, to tell you they're on sale. In 1996 people were exposed to an average of about 500 ad's per day, in 2006 it was 1000 per day, in 2016 it was 3000 per day. In 2021 it is 9000 per day. I'm simply unwilling to be part of that statistic. So I will stop a service over a single advertisement that I cannot block. This probably sounds silly, and to a lot of people it is given their tolerance of ad's, but as I said it's my line in the sand on this stuff. I can begrudgingly work around the privacy issues (which according to their privacy policy involves them collecting and saving your device, connection information, name email, contact information, location information, social media information, and web browsing behavior, plus the permission to share/sell that with third party marketing firms, all of which they somehow consider vital functionality to register for an event), but there's no getting around things like in app themes that change with set release to remind you of what's on sale and countdowns to a set going live.

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Post by Arkmer » 3 months ago

drmarkb wrote:
3 months ago
Arkmer wrote:
3 months ago
drmarkb wrote:
3 months ago
Path is a way to make sure you lose in a couple of turns time. This format needs swords.
We don't suddenly need Swords to Plowshares.
We always needed swords, not suddenly. Needed it when Twin was about, needed it during Eldrazi winter, needed it during Uro.
Think about what other decks you'd be relegating to irrelevancy. If Swords is so good that it would have fixed all those broken things then what not broken things would it have completely obliterated? How is that a format you want? And look, I'm usually openly advocating for better removal, but we have to understand that there's a limit. Again, if Swords is that powerful how can we not think that it wouldn't warp the format? We'd never have seen Death's Shadow, Kroxa would be a joke (just comparing to Uro), so many other creature decks would be meaningless, we'd "still have Twin, Eye of Ugin, and Uro" (paraphrasing), how is that something we want to be bound to? Everyone now needs Swords otherwise they lose to these decks. What other removal would have had to have been printed to bring the other colors up to that level? How insane would it be if every color was able to deal with the Eye of Ugin decks of Eldrazi Winter? It just doesn't make any sense.

So either Swords isn't as powerful as stated and would not have helped against all those things or Swords would have been the best and only removal good enough to suppress all those things and warp the format then been banned just to see everything else be banned behind it all the same.

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Post by Simto » 3 months ago

DCI or apps, I don't care either way. I live the most un-interesting, un-important and most worthless life on the planet, so if somebody wants to look at my data, go ahead and waste your time lol.

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Post by AvalonAurora » 3 months ago

Simto wrote:
3 months ago
DCI or apps, I don't care either way. I live the most un-interesting, un-important and most worthless life on the planet, so if somebody wants to look at my data, go ahead and waste your time lol.
Wouldn't that make you the exact sort of person intelligence agencies would want to recruit as a secret agent, or suspect already is one of someone else? Lazav, is that you?

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Post by Simto » 3 months ago

AvalonAurora wrote:
3 months ago
Simto wrote:
3 months ago
DCI or apps, I don't care either way. I live the most un-interesting, un-important and most worthless life on the planet, so if somebody wants to look at my data, go ahead and waste your time lol.
Wouldn't that make you the exact sort of person intelligence agencies would want to recruit as a secret agent, or suspect already is one of someone else? Lazav, is that you?
Nah, because I'm stupid too. I like tron decks you know?
I'm only smart enough to know how dumb I am.

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Post by robertleva » 3 months ago

Aazadan wrote:
3 months ago
I don't want Wizards to have my email, my phone number, or force me into one specific account. I don't want online and paper accounts connected. None of this has to do with playing the game, and it's pure data harvesting on their part. If they want me to register online, fine I've got no problems with that. But, unfortunately it seems that's not even an option without their app.
They want as much of your info as they get from MTGO and they are using this as a way to leverage it out of you, plain and simple. They want to know when and where what cards are being used and by whom. They want to know the success or fail rates, then they want to compare the differences between that and MTGO and make some kind of super-algorithm that tells them when a card is a "Problem" and needs to be banned.
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Post by Arkmer » 3 months ago

Simto wrote:
3 months ago
Nah, because I'm stupid too. I like tron decks you know?
I'm only smart enough to know how dumb I am.
This made me laugh. Way to just put yourself out there, lol.
robertleva wrote:
3 months ago
... some kind of super-algorithm that tells them when a card is a "Problem" and needs to be banned.
It would be neat, but I think Magic is faaaar too complicated for something like that. I think they should just be clear about what their actual guide lines for bans are and then follow them. I remember we once had a "turn 4 format"... unless we didn't! I think it would be nice to return to laid out guide lines like that; I think they need to be a bit more complicated, but I think they should at least be clearly stated and changes to them be announced in a formal manner opposed to the community just sort of realizing that this is no longer a rule because we haven't seen a ban in far too long.

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Post by Aazadan » 3 months ago

Simto wrote:
3 months ago
DCI or apps, I don't care either way. I live the most un-interesting, un-important and most worthless life on the planet, so if somebody wants to look at my data, go ahead and waste your time lol.
It's not really about being interesting, governments don't care about that stuff. It's more about compiling marketing profiles. Untargeted ad's generate a return of about 3 to 1. Targeted ad's are closer to 10 to 1. That means it costs you more money, for as much as people claim advertising doesn't affect them, all evidence is that it does. Google AdWords takes hundreds of dollars out of your pocket every year through purchases ad's convinced you to make. And that's a fraction of all of it, on average advertisements cost you thousands per year. Don't have money for Ragavan? That's one reason why.

Apps are monetized through data because data can be used to convince you to spend money.
robertleva wrote:
3 months ago
They want as much of your info as they get from MTGO and they are using this as a way to leverage it out of you, plain and simple. They want to know when and where what cards are being used and by whom. They want to know the success or fail rates, then they want to compare the differences between that and MTGO and make some kind of super-algorithm that tells them when a card is a "Problem" and needs to be banned.
If that's what they were collecting, that would be cool. But they aren't getting any deck list information or anything about the games themselves other than who plays who and how many are playing. They want very different information from what MTGO wants. MTGO for example doesn't care about what websites you go to or your social media information, it can't even access that stuff.

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Post by BeneTleilax » 3 months ago

Aazadan wrote:
3 months ago
If that's what they were collecting, that would be cool. But they aren't getting any deck list information or anything about the games themselves other than who plays who and how many are playing. They want very different information from what MTGO wants. MTGO for example doesn't care about what websites you go to or your social media information, it can't even access that stuff.
They want to know what the market will support. Yeah, they might sell your data to spooky third parties, but I don't think that's the main concern for an app like this unless you're an undocumented immigrant or something. WotC wants to know exactly how bad a set can be for you to still buy it, exactly how expensive a card can be before it's too expensive, exactly how broken a format can be before you bail on it and exactly how long you'll burn out for before you come back for more. Everyone playing magic has for long enough has made marginal decisions like that, has played a format or bought a product they almost didn't. WotC wants to know the margins with as much accuracy as possible, so they can optimize to them, so that those marginal decisions will be as pervasive as possible. That is the threat posed by information asymmetry.
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