[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

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duducrash
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Post by duducrash » 4 months ago

I don't think I'll want to take a turn off against Tron to cast an early Void Mirror . They run forests and can crack a star for colored mana.

I havent played in a lil while because of the end of the world but I recently saw some streams and apparently UR prowess, mono-red prowess and burn are THE thing right now. 100% not what I expected

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Post by Mapccu » 4 months ago

In regards to void mirror, etron can tweak its mana base to deal with this. Cavern straight up negates the counter effect, but if you name eldrazi with Unclaimed Territory you can generate mana to cast your stuff while still maintaining colorless generation for where it matters. Some colored mana rocks are probably fine too if needed.

That's not a sideboard card I would ever expect to see 4x in a sideboard. Probably 2x unless we see a surge in free spells in the future.

Where I think it'll be obnoxious is turning off free Force of Negation or Force of Vigor while the owner is doing degenerate things t3. That does push most combo back to t4 which is probably fine.

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Post by AvalonAurora » 4 months ago

Dress Down seems potentially useful! Although of course it won't help against turn 1 no mana cost evoke creatures, nor against already triggered abilities or abilities triggered in response to it being cast... :unamused: It's more against static abilities I think, for the turn.

Edit: Updated card name to match English name

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Post by iTaLenTZ » 4 months ago

MH2 so far looks very dull. More catered towards Commander. Ignoble Hierarch is cool and a couple of others maybe but not very exciting.

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Post by The Fluff » 4 months ago

I like the return of modular, and artifact lands are here. Feels like they're trying to bring affinity back to life.

Unmarked Grave feels like a weaker Entomb. Could be useful.

Imperial Recruiter - good legacy card, would this guy be useful here in modern?
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Post by Arkmer » 4 months ago

iTaLenTZ wrote:
4 months ago
MH2 so far looks very dull. More catered towards Commander. Ignoble Hierarch is cool and a couple of others maybe but not very exciting.
Basically how MH1 went as well; "Commander Horizons", "boring set", "very underwhelming". Then we had the format turn upside down for awhile naming the summer after a necropolis and had to ban two cards from the set... one of which was a common mana rock that warped 3 formats. Then we had to ban another mana rock to keep Urza around (according to the B&R).

Having just gotten "Force to Plowshares" in Solitude, a Green Yawgmoth's Will in Gaea's Will, and a ton of enchantment support in reprint introductions I think we can chill a bit and see how things settle before we call it "dull". There's a lot to consider and I don't think that's even everything worth mentioning to be convincing here. On the other hand, I can understand if *you* think that's boring.

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Post by Simto » 4 months ago

Don't forget we also got Counterspell in this set and the usual "We regret ever printing tron lands so here's a couple more %$#% you cards" too.

I think the set looks very powerful and they have done a good job at trying to go as wide as possible with different styled cards/mechanics. There may not be any cards (so far) that will need an immediate banning hehe, but it's definitely going to shake things up.
I do agree though, I don't like the fact that they put so many obvious commander specific cards in the set when they just %$#% made Commander Legends and pump out so much more commander specific stuff.
You always hear people argument "But not every product is for you haha idiot!", unless you play commander apparently, then wizards will do anything for you now.

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Post by Tzoulis » 4 months ago

Simto wrote:
4 months ago
Don't forget we also got Counterspell in this set and the usual "We regret ever printing tron lands so here's a couple more %$#% you cards" too.
We just got Vindicate, so the Tron hate continues :P (Although I don't think it'll be that significant against it, but it is a relevant mainboard card)

I'm still waiting on decent artifact synergies so I can finally play my favorite card type, but 5 Color Niv has gotten some significant tools so I like it so far.

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Post by Arkmer » 4 months ago

Simto wrote:
4 months ago
You always hear people argument "But not every product is for you haha idiot!", unless you play commander apparently, then wizards will do anything for you now.
While I refuse to play commander in any capacity, I'm very okay with them printing tons of commander stuff in MH2 (or whatever non-standard set) to me it just means I'll need less stuff from the higher priced set. It also means that commander players will definitely be cracking packs or buying singles that make stores want to crack packs.

I do legitimately feel like commander has more design space than 60 card formats and that leads to the ability to jam commander stuff literally everywhere. Let's be real with ourselves, do we think Garth One-Eye is going to see significant Modern play? Unlikely, but I bet he sees much more commander play by comparison and, to an extent, that's maybe a mildly underhanded way of saying kitchen table magic has a ton of demand otherwise I have no idea how they justify the printing of these cards. In that sense, I think you're super right, basically every product has something explicitly for commander in it.

So I say let them print commander stuff! As long as we can see a reasonable portion of the cards are actually for Modern (and I think I'm satisfied at this point), then I have little issue with the rest of the printing. Fun for limited? Awesome. Commander staples and jokes? Great. I'll order some singles and move on like I always have.

On the level of Tron: I do think G Tron will have a hard enough time competing with x4 Counterspell decks. Having played just Silumgar's Scorn for awhile I always feel highly favored in that matchup. E Tron is a different story, but that's a whole other conversation; I do find it interesting that there is so much Tron hate. I feel as though player lamentation has gone on long enough and WotC may be getting closer and closer to just killing the deck. While debate can certainly be had over the deck's place in the meta, I do think it's also a deck people hate playing against and are vocal about hating.

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Post by Simto » 4 months ago

Yeah, Vindicate too although I think it may be too slow in the crucial early turns but 'ey, more ammo in the %$#% you tron gun hehe.
They have printed some very interesting artifact and modular cards here, so I hope Affinity or some other artifact heavy deck can pop up again. I've always dug artifact decks.

And about commander. I love playing it with my friends because our decks are roughly the same power levels and I love playing weird big mana cards and having big plays, big board wipes, huge spells etc etc. It's a very different game but I love playing 1vs1 and commander. I just think it's kinda.... it's called modern horizons, but it's clear a big part of the focus is Commander. But whatever, I'm just some pleb so what does it matter hehe.
Some people hate playing against tron, but other people love playing it. I think that comparison can be used for control decks too. Usually the only person who enjoys control decks is the one playing it. It can be very boring to play against or spectate, but again it's like... I personally don't like those amulet/titan/valakut decks, but I don't want them banned. I love playing tron and hope it doesn't get banned. I may be biased since it's one of my favourite decks, but there's plenty of hate for it so there's no need.
I don't know where I'm going with this, I just really hope the deck doesn't die because I see it as my main deck and I don't want to spend more money for other decks, because it's %$#% expensive!

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 4 months ago

I wish they'd just have Commander sets so every freaking set wouldn't have to be infested with 20% commander cards. Oh yeah, they do already. :\

Most mtg formats have many things wrong with them, but I refuse to play a format where Sol Ring is legal, yet it is more powerful than Black Lotus, which never was legal.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by iTaLenTZ » 4 months ago

If they also give us Gerrard's Verdict I would start playing Junk.

My biggest problem is that so far the best cards are all auto inclusions into the best decks at the moment. Humans and Prowess.

Ignoble Hierarch will for sure introduce a lot of new decks. I am happy for that.

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Post by EonAon » 4 months ago

Well they did put the final nail in traditional Affinity. If they hate tron why not toss it in the coffin with mox opal and be done?

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Post by Tzoulis » 4 months ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
4 months ago
I wish they'd just have Commander sets so every freaking set wouldn't have to be infested with 20% commander cards. Oh yeah, they do already.
Did you expect them not to cater to their largest demographic by far? Even with the commander focused cards, this set is far more aimed at Modern - and Legacy to an extent - than MH1 and has included way more set up or auxiliary cards than straight up auto-includes.
FoodChainGoblins wrote:
4 months ago
Most mtg formats have many things wrong with them, but I refuse to play a format where Sol Ring is legal, yet it is more powerful than Black Lotus, which never was legal.
If you have a consistent playgroup you can Rule 0 it; I've done it with my group, along with other silly cards like Expropriate etc., so we have ended up in a more casual friendly meta, but my decks can actually fight with decks with Sol Rings, and with slight adjustments even go above them (we're not talking about cEDH here though).
iTaLenTZ wrote:
4 months ago
My biggest problem is that so far the best cards are all auto inclusions into the best decks at the moment. Humans and Prowess.
Which are auto includes, because other than Recruiter for Humans (which is debatable how needed it is and whether it is actually a top deck) I haven't seen anything else.
Simto wrote:
4 months ago
Some people hate playing against tron, but other people love playing it. I think that comparison can be used for control decks too. Usually the only person who enjoys control decks is the one playing it. It can be very boring to play against or spectate, but again it's like... I personally don't like those amulet/titan/valakut decks, but I don't want them banned. I love playing tron and hope it doesn't get banned. I may be biased since it's one of my favourite decks, but there's plenty of hate for it so there's no need.
When I was playing Control, after Ceremonious Rejection and Big Teferi and Field of Ruin, I wasn't that afraid of Tron and I'd say I had a positive matchup. Likewise for Whirza after the Opal ban - before the ban, with Paradoxical Urza, it was rather easy since the Thopters didn't get wiped by Ugin, also cheap counters and discard . I do not enjoy playing against Tron because some of their games are just so unbelievably one sided and it is always stressful, their land-land-land counter/deal with the first wave of threats into Ulamog is probably one of my most hated gameplay sequences I've experienced. For me, Titan decks fall into that category as well, but in no way, shape or form, do I want it go away the way the %$#% up Artifact strategies.

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Post by motleyslayer » 4 months ago

I've already been playing Abzan and Mardu variants off and on for a few years now. Vindicate is super cool, while not being too broken. I could just be wrong though

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Post by Guardman » 4 months ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
4 months ago
I wish they'd just have Commander sets so every freaking set wouldn't have to be infested with 20% commander cards. Oh yeah, they do already. :\
As much as you (and several people I know) don't like it, them including Commander cards is actually a good thing for the same reason that including cards only meant for draft is a good thing. They increase sales and lower card price (as more packs are open), both of which are good. And without both Commander cards and Draft cards, Modern Horizons II wouldn't exist. It might not be perfect, but those 20% commander cards allow the rest of the cards truly meant for Modern to exist.
FoodChainGoblins wrote:
4 months ago
Most mtg formats have many things wrong with them, but I refuse to play a format where Sol Ring is legal, yet it is more powerful than Black Lotus, which never was legal.
While your playgroup can Rule 0 it, in practice it isn't that warping of a card unless you are playing in a really high power level group. Almost every deck has artifact removal and you have three opponents, not one, so if you look like you are too far ahead everyone will start disrupting you.
EonAon wrote:
4 months ago
Well they did put the final nail in traditional Affinity. If they hate tron why not toss it in the coffin with mox opal and be done?
I think a lot of it is they don't mind Tron in theory, unlike Affinity. But in practice they don't like certain aspects like its reliability and are interested in printing cards that affect it. Also I think they also don't want the deck to be at a high meta share and so hope that by continuously printing hate cards they can make sure it can be a meta call, but never meta dominant.

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Post by EonAon » 4 months ago

Guardman wrote:
4 months ago
EonAon wrote:
4 months ago
Well they did put the final nail in traditional Affinity. If they hate tron why not toss it in the coffin with mox opal and be done?
I think a lot of it is they don't mind Tron in theory, unlike Affinity. But in practice they don't like certain aspects like its reliability and are interested in printing cards that affect it. Also I think they also don't want the deck to be at a high meta share and so hope that by continuously printing hate cards they can make sure it can be a meta call, but never meta dominant.
The problem is they cant commit to a hate card that hates efficiently on tron without going into non basic land destruction which is a direction not many people want them to explore anyway. All these specialized hate cards are like putting a band aid on a knife wound. It might work but honestly your still bleeding pretty profusely.

Heck they finally printed something cheap and easy to start hitting planeswalkers continuously in that red enchantment. Something they should have been exploring more in my book.

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 4 months ago

Tzoulis wrote:
4 months ago
FoodChainGoblins wrote:
4 months ago
I wish they'd just have Commander sets so every freaking set wouldn't have to be infested with 20% commander cards. Oh yeah, they do already.
Did you expect them not to cater to their largest demographic by far? Even with the commander focused cards, this set is far more aimed at Modern - and Legacy to an extent - than MH1 and has included way more set up or auxiliary cards than straight up auto-includes.
FoodChainGoblins wrote:
4 months ago
Most mtg formats have many things wrong with them, but I refuse to play a format where Sol Ring is legal, yet it is more powerful than Black Lotus, which never was legal.
If you have a consistent playgroup you can Rule 0 it; I've done it with my group, along with other silly cards like Expropriate etc., so we have ended up in a more casual friendly meta, but my decks can actually fight with decks with Sol Rings, and with slight adjustments even go above them (we're not talking about cEDH here though).
Here's an idea - make more than 1 Commander set each year. Make 66 Commander sets each year, 6 Standard sets, and 1/2 of a Modern set, along with whatever other milkings are needed.

I somehow doubt that someone will sue WotC if they do more than 1 Commander set per year, but I guess it is illegal to do it this way.
Guardman wrote:
4 months ago
FoodChainGoblins wrote:
4 months ago
I wish they'd just have Commander sets so every freaking set wouldn't have to be infested with 20% commander cards. Oh yeah, they do already. :\
As much as you (and several people I know) don't like it, them including Commander cards is actually a good thing for the same reason that including cards only meant for draft is a good thing. They increase sales and lower card price (as more packs are open), both of which are good. And without both Commander cards and Draft cards, Modern Horizons II wouldn't exist. It might not be perfect, but those 20% commander cards allow the rest of the cards truly meant for Modern to exist.
FoodChainGoblins wrote:
4 months ago
Most mtg formats have many things wrong with them, but I refuse to play a format where Sol Ring is legal, yet it is more powerful than Black Lotus, which never was legal.
While your playgroup can Rule 0 it, in practice it isn't that warping of a card unless you are playing in a really high power level group. Almost every deck has artifact removal and you have three opponents, not one, so if you look like you are too far ahead everyone will start disrupting you.
It shows a lack of design space. WotC either can't come up with new ideas for cards that are Modern appropriate or they don't want to. I will admit that I love the reprints of cards from Pre Modern making it into Modern. This is the idea I wanted all along. Why make a %$#% Preordain? Why make a %$#% XYZ?

I'm going to answer the Commander question for both. I don't WANT Sol Ring banned. I want to be able to play Power 9, Prime Time, and a bunch more just to name a few. My first Commander tournament I went to, I played Ancestral Recall. My opponents said I can't do that. So, I can't play that, but I can play Mishra's Workshop, Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Bazaar of Baghdad, and 123896 Legends cards that are OP? No thanks.

So I got over that. Then I played the strongest decks. Players don't want to play against the strongest decks, so I gradually had no playgroups. Then I ran decks I like, for example Norin the Wary. Same result. Finally I decided to just play the %$#% deck. Never attack someone. Never cast a spell. Never play Magic. This was the only deck people enjoyed. Would I ever play this for money at a tournament? Hell no! I'd just take the tournament fee out of my pocket, tear the money into little pieces, and throw it into the trash. Welcome to the most political format in all of MTG, for those who enjoy that, lol.

The difference with something like Modern is this. I play Eye of Ugin in UR Eldrazi until it gets banned. People get butthurt, but who cares? It was legal at the time, we all know it won't be soon, and it won me a LOT of money and store credit.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by Simto » 4 months ago

motleyslayer wrote:
4 months ago
I've already been playing Abzan and Mardu variants off and on for a few years now. Vindicate is super cool, while not being too broken. I could just be wrong though
I think it's a great addition and I'm almost certain it won't be too powerful given it's 3 mana and sorcery speed. So it may be a bit slow in some matchups, but it'll be a great tool to have available in those colours.

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Post by Simto » 4 months ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
4 months ago
So I got over that. Then I played the strongest decks. Players don't want to play against the strongest decks, so I gradually had no playgroups. Then I ran decks I like, for example Norin the Wary. Same result. Finally I decided to just play the %$#% deck. Never attack someone. Never cast a spell. Never play Magic. This was the only deck people enjoyed. Would I ever play this for money at a tournament? Hell no! I'd just take the tournament fee out of my pocket, tear the money into little pieces, and throw it into the trash. Welcome to the most political format in all of MTG, for those who enjoy that, lol.
I don't think it's a problem that's isolated around you. I noticed it a lot too from people playing Commander in the few game stores I've played in. It's honestly Magic in general, but particularly commander. And there are of course exceptions, but in general my experience is most people are faking the "Haha it's just a casual format, don't worry", but then everybody has these hyper insane decks filled to the brim with expensive cards and crazy synergies.
I usually went to my LGS to play standard or modern, but I would sometimes bring a commander deck and play one round for fun if I had time. And I'll never forget this one regular commander player in the store. He was playing a Yuriko ninja deck and he in all seriousness told me "Oh yeah, this deck haha, it's just casual and commander is just for fun" and then slams a Jace the mind sculptor and a %$#% scroll rack against my precon deck with maybe 10 cards swapped in and out.
The commander players I've seen in the stores ONLY play commander and I think it's their only hobby too, so they spend all their money on cards for commander, so they naturally have souped up decks compared to plebs like me.

But it's just the attitude thing. There's always this constant passive aggressiveness and angst. Even from the people my age and older (I'm 33). It's so %$#% tiring when I basically just come there once a week or something just to have fun and then play against these dudes who can't stand if even a single bad thing gets done towards them and they always sit and make these passive aggressive laughs and %$#%. I got really fed up with it honestly and I only play commander with my friends I've known all my life. We have similar power level decks and it's always a fun time.
The LGS attitude people have was also seeping into the modern tournaments and I started to really hate it. People took it way too %$#% serious and I just can't take that "alpha nerd" mentality... I don't care at all if I win or lose, I just hate the attitudes. %$#% I'm ranting now, but I've just grown really tired of it.

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Post by motleyslayer » 4 months ago

Simto wrote:
4 months ago
motleyslayer wrote:
4 months ago
I've already been playing Abzan and Mardu variants off and on for a few years now. Vindicate is super cool, while not being too broken. I could just be wrong though
I think it's a great addition and I'm almost certain it won't be too powerful given it's 3 mana and sorcery speed. So it may be a bit slow in some matchups, but it'll be a great tool to have available in those colours.
that's a good point, a 3 mana sorcery isn't going to break the format in its current state, but it'll be a great addition. I don't know if I've seen anything yet that will break the format. Although let's keep i mind what happened last time, where we missed Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis and Urza, Lord High Artificer

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Post by iTaLenTZ » 4 months ago

motleyslayer wrote:
4 months ago
where we missed Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis and Urza, Lord High Artificer
I certainly didn't miss those. When the complete set is spoiled I will happily make a tier list.

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Post by cfusionpm » 4 months ago

Excited for the Betterskull card. Seems like a great target to run alongside a Batterskull and Sword of Feast and Famine main, with the Fire and Ice in the side. I know what I'll be playing when I can finally shuffle up paper cards again. The trample and indestructible is really helpful in a lot of matchups, while the lifelink and vigilance is more helpful in others.

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Post by EonAon » 4 months ago

cfusionpm wrote:
4 months ago
Excited for the Betterskull card. Seems like a great target to run alongside a Batterskull and Sword of Feast and Famine main, with the Fire and Ice in the side. I know what I'll be playing when I can finally shuffle up paper cards again. The trample and indestructible is really helpful in a lot of matchups, while the lifelink and vigilance is more helpful in others.
Honestly its not really better persay. Different sure, but the reason Batterskull is still the best is that if you have three mana you can bounce it back into your hand to keep opponents on the back hoof to actually getting rid of Batterskull. If you bounce the creature token its going to be a bear to equip that again unless you blink or self bounce. Heck the new split second edict, if this is your only creature will solve the problem without you being able to respond and is still flexible for other opportunities.

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Post by Simto » 4 months ago

cfusionpm wrote:
4 months ago
Excited for the Betterskull card. Seems like a great target to run alongside a Batterskull and Sword of Feast and Famine main, with the Fire and Ice in the side. I know what I'll be playing when I can finally shuffle up paper cards again. The trample and indestructible is really helpful in a lot of matchups, while the lifelink and vigilance is more helpful in others.
Yeah, that card stood out to me as well. It could work in Green Tron too, definitely something I'd like to try out. It's kinda like a Reality Smasher you can grab from the sideboard with Karn, and Tron can pay the mana for it and the equip cost.
Cool card.

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