[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

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AvalonAurora
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Post by AvalonAurora » 1 year ago

Simto wrote:
1 year ago
The Fluff wrote:
1 year ago
Forsaken Monument. Must have two or three of those for my Eldrazi deck. I hope the price won't be too high.
How does it work with Tron lands? Lets say I have all three down and Forsaken Monument. Will the lands only tap for an additional mana each or an additional mana for each mana the lands produce? (Will Mine/power Plant tap for 3 or 4 and will Tower tap for 4 or 6?)

I think it's kinda funny how they specifically made this set to represent Zendikar without Eldrazi and then the only card with an Eldrazi on it is a really good one hehe (it at least looks good).
I suspect the lands will tap for 2 when tron isn't assembled, but that the monument won't help with extra mana once tron is assembled, based on the wording, it seems like it only gives you the additional 1, when it generates specifically 1, rather than generating 2 or 3 or more.

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Post by Tzoulis » 1 year ago

Simto wrote:
1 year ago
How does it work with Tron lands? Lets say I have all three down and Forsaken Monument. Will the lands only tap for an additional mana each or an additional mana for each mana the lands produce? (Will Mine/power Plant tap for 3 or 4 and will Tower tap for 4 or 6?)

I think it's kinda funny how they specifically made this set to represent Zendikar without Eldrazi and then the only card with an Eldrazi on it is a really good one hehe (it at least looks good).
The Fluff wrote:
1 year ago
I don't have an answer to that. Maybe just ask at the rulings section.
AvalonAurora wrote:
1 year ago
I suspect the lands will tap for 2 when tron isn't assembled, but that the monument won't help with extra mana once tron is assembled, based on the wording, it seems like it only gives you the additional 1, when it generates specifically 1, rather than generating 2 or 3 or more.
It gives whatever the source gave +1 as long as the mana generated was colorless. So, if you have tron it's 3+3+4.

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Post by AvalonAurora » 1 year ago

@ktkenshinx are we going to have a thread to discuss the new releases in the latest Zendikar set in the context of modern, or should we just discuss it here? I suspect full spoilers are tomorrow or Friday?

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

could Ancient Greenwarden see modern play?

being able to use lands from the yard looks strong.
Ancient Greenwarden (Extended Art).jpg
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Post by Ym1r » 1 year ago

The Fluff wrote:
1 year ago
could Ancient Greenwarden see modern play?

being able to use lands from the yard looks strong.

Ancient Greenwarden (Extended Art).jpg
Maaaaaybe as one-off in Titan? I mean, if you are on 6 lands you just slam Titan so I don't know if it is really worth it, but it could be good with Field of Ruin. Same holds true for the Bant ramp deck, maybe as 1-off just to be there? Make sure you don't get hated out by land destruction? I am not sure though.
Counter, draw a card.

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Post by AvalonAurora » 1 year ago

Reducing the amount of stuff needed for a Valakut/Scapeshift win might be relevant for it?

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

those are possibilities.

also it allows landfall from fetchland to happen every turn... some cards could benefit from that.
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Post by Ulka » 1 year ago

I honestly wouldnt be surprised to see it played. Between Amulet Titan and some Green Devotion Builds there is a Niche for it. Realistically thought in testing it will probably fall out of titan due to their 75 being quite set. Scapeshift decks instead may see at as titans 5-6 but It might just be winmore at this point.


I will say I'm excited to test it in GW Emeria Titan Control as another top end finisher.
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Post by Tzoulis » 1 year ago

Should be mentioned, that because it has the Crucible of Worlds wording - you may play land cards- you can play the spell side of the new modal DFCs cards. This might warrant a spot in Titan decks, due to the added grindiness. Gx Devotion and or GR Midrange builds might also see value from it as well.

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Post by Aazadan » 1 year ago

Tzoulis wrote:
1 year ago
Should be mentioned, that because it has the Crucible of Worlds wording - you may play land cards- you can play the spell side of the new modal DFCs cards. This might warrant a spot in Titan decks, due to the added grindiness. Gx Devotion and or GR Midrange builds might also see value from it as well.
You actually can't, going by the rules that were posted for the set. But, you could use a card that tutors say a land to your hand, to hit the land side to put the other side in your hand.

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Post by TheAnnihilator » 1 year ago

I see that noone's mentioned the interaction between flip spell/lands and Goblin Charbelcher -- you can now play a "0-land deck" with all of these spell lands, thanks to the fact that they exist only as spells in any zone other than when you play it as a land. This also means, from what I've heard, that you cannot use a land tutor to find the backside of a spell/land, so no finding Simic Growth Chamber and Glasspool Mimic // Glasspool Shore off of a Titan ETB trigger. :(

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Post by Arkmer » 1 year ago

Ulka wrote:
1 year ago
Amulet Titan
I think you're still talking about Ancient Greenwarden still? I don't think it's been said but it's worth noting that because it doubles land based EtB triggers, the karoo lands (like Simic Growth Chamber) will bounce two lands instead of just one. I'm not sure if that interaction rules this card out of Amulet Titan or not because on the flip side it also doubles the Amulet untap triggers.

Probably just a timing issue to make for a very sudden all in? Maybe it fractures the archetype a bit between two builds? Who knows.

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Post by AvalonAurora » 1 year ago

Some cards that attract my attention here for Modern:

Archon of Emeria - might be too slow at 3 cmc, although it could be more playable if you are on the play and/or using some kind of ramp, perhaps in a GW hatebears list.
Luminarch Aspirant - this also feels like it might end up doing nothing too easily, but it seems pretty cheap for the effect if a deck ever needs one counter on each of your turns.
Charix, the Raging Isle - feels like that 17 toughness might be useful for some kind of weird deck or combo some day, especially with how it increases the cost of removal against it.
Confounding Conundrum - ramp and/or fetch hate that comes down soon enough to matter and cantrips? Might actually see some play!
Maddening Cacophony - I could see this fitting into some mill decks
Ruin Crab - hedron crab 5-8 for mill, although not self-mill things like the original can, it does have an extra point of toughness
Sea Gate Stormcaller - It's no snapcaster mage, but it seems like it might do something worthwhile in it's non-kicked state in the right deck(s)
Feed the Swarm - some decks might care about this card's enchantment removal if their color restrictions lock them out of better options
Lithoform Blight - has issues at first glance, but it's important to remember it's 2 cmc, cantrips, and you can target opponent lands with it, including ones that aren't for color fixing but have abilities you don't want the opponent to have, or Urza's Tower.
Mind Carver - could be situationally better than Bone Saw, or Paradise Mantle for quickly getting something equipped for some future deck
Nighthawk Scavenger - unfortunately, despite having something that resembles the goyf mechanic, it has too much holding it back, like 3 cmc, toughness just being set at 3, and not using all graveyards
Scourge of the Skyclaves - reminds me of Death's Shadow such that I could see it seeing play
Skyclave Shade - there are better options, but it's still pretty strong, and might turn up when you need 5-8 of something similar
Soul Shatter - I could see this rarely popping up in sideboards
Cleansing Wildfire - I really wanted this to exist in Modern, and suspect it will see play.
Leyline Tyrant - This seems like it might do interesting things...
Roiling Vortex - This looks potentially useful, at least in sideboards
Valakut Exploration - One of the cheaper repeatable forms of this effect, and deals damage and puts it in the graveyard if the card isn't used
Wayward Guide-Beast - Probably isn't quite goblin-guide 5-8 but it still might be playable some places?
Ancient Greenwarden - already discussed a bit here
Cragplate Baloth - hexproof, haste, and can't be countered and it's bigger kicker form make me wonder about this as a ramp finisher in a sideboard against controlling decks, lack of trample or other evasion might be an issue though
Scale the Heights - look's somewhat Uro-like, but it's far from Uro
Scute Swarm - even if it's not competitive, I somewhat want to see a weird brew with exponential scutes! Maybe some weird backup win-con for scapeshift if Valakut has been hated out somehow?
Skyclave Pick-Axe - same as I mentioned above for Mind Carver
Swarm Shambler - seems like it might be useful somewhere that cares about +1/+1 counters
Grakmaw, Skyclave Ravager - replaces itself and plays with counters in an interesting way, maybe it'll find a place
Kaza, Roil Chaser - does storm want this? Baral and Electromancer are both wizards?
Linvala, Shield of Sea Gate - seems good for coco to stop removal or board-sweeps in certain situations, and maybe some hatebears lists
Yasharn, Implacable Earth - maybe some sideboards?
Cliffhaven Kitesail - see the black and green equipments above, plus this one grants evasion
Forsaken Monument - Tron trons tronly
Lithoform Engine - probably not, but so many copies!
Myriad Construct - I suspect something might want this at some point, even if it's only something like being a budget alternative to Hangarback Walker for something that wants that
Utility Knife - Another one of these
Crawling Barrens - Something might want this manland
Emeria's Call - will almost never be cast in spell mode, but the land mode can enter untapped and it least it has the spell mode as an option late game
Kabira Takedown, Sejiri Shelter - some of the better cards of this type in white, may see play where you want this kind of thing, perhaps wanting lands that don't count as lands in the library for searches or reveals, or the flexibility
Sea Gate Restoration - see Emeria's Call
Beyeen Veil, Glasspool Mimic, Jwari Disruption, Silundi Vision - See white grouping
Agadeem's Awakening - See Emeria's Call, also might be relevant for it's self-damage in untapped land mode for Death's Shadow
Hagra Mauling, Malakir Rebirth - See white grouping
Shatterskull Smashing - See Emeria's Call
Valakut Awakening - might be playable on it's own merits, but also see white grouping
Kazuul's Fury, Spikefield Hazard - see white grouping
Turntimber Symbiosis - See Emeria's Call, but also note that green is the color of ramping
Bala Ged Recovery, Kazandu Mammoth, Khalni Ambush, Tangled Florahedron, Vastwood Fortification - see white grouping
Branchloft Pathway, Brightclimb Pathway, Clearwater Pathway, Cragcrown Pathway, Needleverge Pathway, Riverglide Pathway - I could easily see these lands as being good enough for modern

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Post by Tzoulis » 1 year ago

Aazadan wrote:
1 year ago
You actually can't, going by the rules that were posted for the set. But, you could use a card that tutors say a land to your hand, to hit the land side to put the other side in your hand.
Hadn't seen that, that lowers its power level, but not by much. They decided to go with the "safe" and the easier to understand route. Reminds me of the decision on the split cards

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Post by robertleva » 1 year ago

Can Seagate stormcaller cheat out those high cost fused or fire // ice type of cards?
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Post by Aazadan » 1 year ago

Tzoulis wrote:
1 year ago
Aazadan wrote:
1 year ago
You actually can't, going by the rules that were posted for the set. But, you could use a card that tutors say a land to your hand, to hit the land side to put the other side in your hand.
Hadn't seen that, that lowers its power level, but not by much. They decided to go with the "safe" and the easier to understand route. Reminds me of the decision on the split cards
It's still ridiculous, you can play the spell then crucible to play from the graveyard as a land going by the green warden ruling. I think the route they picked is relatively unintuitive honestly.

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Post by Ulka » 1 year ago

TheAnnihilator wrote:
1 year ago
I see that noone's mentioned the interaction between flip spell/lands and Goblin Charbelcher -- you can now play a "0-land deck" with all of these spell lands, thanks to the fact that they exist only as spells in any zone other than when you play it as a land. This also means, from what I've heard, that you cannot use a land tutor to find the backside of a spell/land, so no finding Simic Growth Chamber and Glasspool Mimic // Glasspool Shore off of a Titan ETB trigger. :(
I've been working on a list with anohter User in the developing Modern Thread. Its about as fast as Ad Nasuem which is very solid.

Arkmer wrote:
1 year ago
Ulka wrote:
1 year ago
Amulet Titan
I think you're still talking about Ancient Greenwarden still? I don't think it's been said but it's worth noting that because it doubles land based EtB triggers, the karoo lands (like Simic Growth Chamber) will bounce two lands instead of just one. I'm not sure if that interaction rules this card out of Amulet Titan or not because on the flip side it also doubles the Amulet untap triggers.

Probably just a timing issue to make for a very sudden all in? Maybe it fractures the archetype a bit between two builds? Who knows.
Yea I was was. Swore I had auto carded Ancient Greenwarden
Modern: Goryo's Gifts | Heartless Architect | Soul Sisters | MonoGreen Devotion
Pauper: Blackened Eggs | Zombies | Zoo | Sultai Teachings
EDH:Bladewing | Blind Seer | Zuberi | He Who Hungers
EDH continued:Mishra | Kynaios and Tiro | Dosan | Zedruu | Mikeaus | 4 color ZadaMayael

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Post by drmarkb » 1 year ago

I think this set will influence Pioneer and EDH far more than Modern. I just think they have pitched power levels at Pioneer shake up rather than Modern. Everything seems too conservatively costed, there are potential role players, but not format influencers, which is a welcome change.

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

I'm not sure if this has a place here on this thread, but my friend seems to think that all of this powerful landfall stuff will end up getting Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath banned. I'm not sure what format he was talking about, but I'm assuming Standard and Pioneer ... maaaaybe Modern.
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Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Jeskai Phoenix, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by ThatStoryTeller » 1 year ago

I dont think its modern but I could be wrong, as bans are part player perception too. Im playing scapeshift again after years of putting the deck down. I took the risk, so I'm riding this out for as long as is possible, but uro definitely powered the deck up. Id prefer not to have growth spiral god banned tho thanks. Gerry and Bryan on arena checklists said the card is powerful but you still have to win the game, and I think that fits more for modern than anything else. If uro survives till modern horizons 2 in modern I think there will be enough answers for him to just be dumb strong in modern

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Post by robertleva » 1 year ago

drmarkb wrote:
1 year ago
I think this set will influence Pioneer and EDH far more than Modern. I just think they have pitched power levels at Pioneer shake up rather than Modern. Everything seems too conservatively costed, there are potential role players, but not format influencers, which is a welcome change.
They added some non basic land hate that should hit both Pioneer and Modern. The flip lands and some of the spell lands are both major players in decks going forward as well. This was a powerful set, and those lands may very well enable some really broken stuff in modern.
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Post by Aazadan » 1 year ago

drmarkb wrote:
1 year ago
I think this set will influence Pioneer and EDH far more than Modern. I just think they have pitched power levels at Pioneer shake up rather than Modern. Everything seems too conservatively costed, there are potential role players, but not format influencers, which is a welcome change.
I'm not so sure about that, a lot of these cards are cost appropriately. And the stuff that's a land modal card is almost instantly playable in various decks, only a handful of them aren't. Between kicker and the land effect this set is packed with cards that are playable early and can be cashed in for larger effects later. Variable cost cards like that are typically incredibly powerful because they give you a flexible curve. Several of the etb attach equipments look strong too, it can probably push a SFM deck a bit.

Also, it probably won't go anywhere but I really want to play a red/white deck with Emeria the Sky Ruin, Darksteel Citadel, and Cleansing Wildfire. Specifically mentioned in the card rulings (it was something I didn't notice at first), is that if the spell resolves the controller searches for a land and you draw the card regardless of if the card itself was destroyed, so indestructible specifically results in that outcome while keeping your land.

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Post by drmarkb » 1 year ago

Just have to see but I think there are no format warpers, just role players

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Post by Aazadan » 1 year ago

drmarkb wrote:
1 year ago
Just have to see but I think there are no format warpers, just role players
I agree that I don't think there's anything that can warp the format (the monument gets closest), but a lot of decks are going to see a lot of upgrades out of this set. It looks to be very influential.

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Post by drmarkb » 1 year ago

Well, I guess no set is Homelands level of quiet, but after Oko et al I welcome a reduction in power...

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