[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

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Ym1r
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Post by Ym1r » 1 year ago

robertleva wrote:
1 year ago
REgarding the zendikar spoilers (just now looked at full list):

Just go ahead and get full sets of those flip basics. They are viable if not outright staples of any format they are legal in. I would probably get extras if I cared about slinging cards for cash.
I mean, the fact that they are not fetchable doesn't really make them all that good right? I don't think non-fetchable lands have a chance in modern unless they do something very powerful (e.g. fastlands, or man-lands, or Mystic Sanctuary).
Counter, draw a card.

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Post by drmarkb » 1 year ago

Aazadan wrote:
1 year ago
drmarkb wrote:
1 year ago
Aside from astrolabe, what else about snow is an issue? Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single card in Ice age, Cold snap or MH1 that is an issue in any format because it is snow. Dark depths, but that could just as easily be non snow, and is an issue because it combos with stage and hexmage. Snow itself does nothing, and by and large there are very few snow playable in older formats. Ice Fang is good, but not broken. Skred is ok. Scrying sheets ok, the man land ok. It is basically astrolabe as an issue.
Snow is extra efficient cards, especially the MH ones, that are only balanced out by having a lack of options in playing a critical mass of snow tagged items. Without real drawbacks to playing snow, any time a good snow card is printed, all snow cards are powered up because it's a very parasitic mechanic. It's similar to infect in that the balance is in having a lack of options. Even at curve (for the format) snow cards contribute because they power up the other ones that are above curve.

That is just it though- without drawbacks- a return of snow could mean a bit of snow hate- print a bunch of not nuts snow monsters, and then add some tolerance snow cards in that punish it elsewhere. Null rod for non-land snow permanents, that sort of thing.

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Post by robertleva » 1 year ago

Ym1r wrote:
1 year ago
robertleva wrote:
1 year ago
REgarding the zendikar spoilers (just now looked at full list):

Just go ahead and get full sets of those flip basics. They are viable if not outright staples of any format they are legal in. I would probably get extras if I cared about slinging cards for cash.
I mean, the fact that they are not fetchable doesn't really make them all that good right? I don't think non-fetchable lands have a chance in modern unless they do something very powerful (e.g. fastlands, or man-lands, or Mystic Sanctuary).
The fetchability is a side issue. This is pain free 2 color land with no conditional uptap. 1-4 copies of them can be considered in just about and 2+ color list. Multicolored spells / strats like them.
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Post by Bearscape » 1 year ago

Fetchlands are trilands though. The flip lands also do come with a downside if you play Cryptic Command and Supreme Verdict in the same deck. I can see them being playable but fetches and shocks are just hard to top.

Speaking of which, Confounding Conondrum is on my worry list. Very easily mainboardable

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Post by AvalonAurora » 1 year ago

Bearscape wrote:
1 year ago
Fetchlands are trilands though. The flip lands also do come with a downside if you play Cryptic Command and Supreme Verdict in the same deck. I can see them being playable but fetches and shocks are just hard to top.

Speaking of which, Confounding Conondrum is on my worry list. Very easily mainboardable
Ah, yeah, that is pretty strong hate against fetchlands. Sure, they can wait to fetch until your turn to avoid triggering the effect, but that is only if they don't have something they want to play that turn.

Might be something wizards actually wants though, I've regularly got the impression they aren't fond of fetches, and they might be hoping that a card like this causes fetches to be played less, and it to become another form of landbase policing like Blood Moon.

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Post by Aazadan » 1 year ago

drmarkb wrote:
1 year ago
That is just it though- without drawbacks- a return of snow could mean a bit of snow hate- print a bunch of not nuts snow monsters, and then add some tolerance snow cards in that punish it elsewhere. Null rod for non-land snow permanents, that sort of thing.
That feels like an incredibly dangerous design where the payoff is no different than not printing more snow in the first place.

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Post by AvalonAurora » 1 year ago

*does dance for Cleansing Wilfire* This set looks to have strong land hate targeting different forms of ramp. I especially like how this one encourages having more basic lands in your deck much like Ghost Quarter and Field of Ruin.

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Post by drmarkb » 1 year ago

Aazadan wrote:
1 year ago
drmarkb wrote:
1 year ago
That is just it though- without drawbacks- a return of snow could mean a bit of snow hate- print a bunch of not nuts snow monsters, and then add some tolerance snow cards in that punish it elsewhere. Null rod for non-land snow permanents, that sort of thing.
That feels like an incredibly dangerous design where the payoff is no different than not printing more snow in the first place.
Which would be fine and logical if it were not for the fact that Snow is already a problem (edit- in terms of astrolabe in Legacy and the ban in Modern). If you do not print snow hate, the problem won't go away.
If you print snow craw wurms, they are no more dangerous than regular ones, and you get an excuse to print snow hate.
Last edited by drmarkb 1 year ago, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by drmarkb » 1 year ago

AvalonAurora wrote:
1 year ago
*does dance for Cleansing Wilfire* This set looks to have strong land hate targeting different forms of ramp. I especially like how this one encourages having more basic lands in your deck much like Ghost Quarter and Field of Ruin.
Just need to print good anti-search, aside from leonin arbiter and mindcensor.

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Post by AvalonAurora » 1 year ago

We don't necessarily have to hope for snow hate in MH2 only, given that Kaldheim is coming up, which might be a better place to put safer snow cards and snow hate.

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

robertleva wrote:
1 year ago
We are overdue for some new man lands. I would sure love to see some of those.
quoting this post to say, I agree. We need new ones!

hopefully, manlands that produce colored mana.. so easier to add into specific decks.

_______________

the new Archon of Emeria looks like a nice control card.

are we allowed to discuss new Zen cards here, or will there be a Zendikar Rising thread?
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Post by Simto » 1 year ago

The Fluff wrote:
1 year ago
the new Archon of Emeria looks like a nice control card.

are we allowed to discuss new Zen cards here, or will there be a Zendikar Rising thread?
Looks like a cool card (cool art too. Really makes good use of the borderless frame) Is it fast enough against the decks you'd want to use it for though?
Not sure if it's allowed to discuss here yet, but either way, I really like Zendikar as a plane, but this set looks absolutely horrendously bad. Not the artwork or anything like that, just from a gameplay perspective. I don't even want to play sealed with my mates which we almost always do when a new set is released.
The only card I want so far is a Crawling Barrens [/card] for my Tron deck, some of the full art lands and 4 of each Expedition of course lol...
I could see Crawling Barrens [/card] being really good as a one of in Eldrazi Tron decks. Just some extra range that's good at avoiding removal and a mana sink too.

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Post by robertleva » 1 year ago

Re Archon: Great art, interesting design, but I do not think it makes the cut in Modern. If it had flash, maybe, without flash...it's just too expensive for Modern I think.
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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

many modern Storm decks goldfish on turn 3. If without any mana accel, most of the time.. the person with the archon has to be going first, for it to be useful.

well, I'd be glad if people don't use it. It needs to be hit with a burn spell if I'm using mono red prowess. lol
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Post by blkdemonight » 1 year ago

AvalonAurora wrote:
1 year ago
Bearscape wrote:
1 year ago
Fetchlands are trilands though. The flip lands also do come with a downside if you play Cryptic Command and Supreme Verdict in the same deck. I can see them being playable but fetches and shocks are just hard to top.

Speaking of which, Confounding Conondrum is on my worry list. Very easily mainboardable
Ah, yeah, that is pretty strong hate against fetchlands. Sure, they can wait to fetch until your turn to avoid triggering the effect, but that is only if they don't have something they want to play that turn.

Might be something wizards actually wants though, I've regularly got the impression they aren't fond of fetches, and they might be hoping that a card like this causes fetches to be played less, and it to become another form of landbase policing like Blood Moon.
drmarkb wrote:
1 year ago
AvalonAurora wrote:
1 year ago
*does dance for Cleansing Wilfire* This set looks to have strong land hate targeting different forms of ramp. I especially like how this one encourages having more basic lands in your deck much like Ghost Quarter and Field of Ruin.
Just need to print good anti-search, aside from leonin arbiter and mindcensor.
I've been wondering as of late. Did Wizards print land hate only because this is a set that happens to care about land plays? Wouldn't be surprised if Wizards ever ends up banning all fetches from Modern 5 years from now.

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Post by Aazadan » 1 year ago

blkdemonight wrote:
1 year ago
I've been wondering as of late. Did Wizards print land hate only because this is a set that happens to care about land plays? Wouldn't be surprised if Wizards ever ends up banning all fetches from Modern 5 years from now.
That's probably a big part of the reason. And to be fair, this set has some absurd lands in it. A lot of these lands are the sorts of things that should be setting off red flags. This set seems to have as much or more power than several other recent problematic sets.

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Post by blkdemonight » 1 year ago

I've been getting Zendikar vibes from this set, feels more focused and powerful than BFZ. The set proves that fetchlands shouldn't be in standard with anything taking advantage of such cards. A shame we won't be seeing fetches getting a meaningful standard reprint. Imagine fetches interacting with triomes landfall interactions and these dual modal double faced cards with their land backs.

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Post by drmarkb » 1 year ago

They are not printing land hate that kills your opponent's lands and leaves you land positive, Cleansing WF is good, but it is not something used early game to leave you land up. They don't want that stuff, so what they are printing is tolerance cards to avoid another field of the dead scenario....

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Post by blkdemonight » 1 year ago

drmarkb wrote:
1 year ago
They are not printing land hate that kills your opponent's lands and leaves you land positive, Cleansing WF is good, but it is not something used early game to leave you land up. They don't want that stuff, so what they are printing is tolerance cards to avoid another field of the dead scenario....

I would have been ok with no Sinkhole in Standard as long as land ramp wasn't a thing. We've got cultivate in m21, alternate Harrow and a explosive vegetation variant with Zendikar Rising. Heck there's another on Ikoria stapled with Cycling. We're just going to see another imploding Standard environment that Wizards that wasn't able to foresee for some freaking reason. They forgot Azusa just so happens to be part of M21.

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Post by Aazadan » 1 year ago

Azusa is going to do dumb things in a format where it looks like decks can probably run 32 lands without having to sacrifice having real cards to play.

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Post by Simto » 1 year ago

Oh boy, finally something interesting (at least for me hehe)
I wonder if they're playable in Colourless Eldrazi Tron
Lithoform Engine looks like an interesting card for lots of mana and Forsaken Monument could be interesting too. Also, finally a card with an Eldrazi on it hehe.

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Post by Aazadan » 1 year ago

Engine seems like an EDH staple. Incredibly powerful in that format, might even be playable in mana ramp decks in other formats.

Monument looks like a really dangerous card.

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

Forsaken Monument. Must have two or three of those for my Eldrazi deck. I hope the price won't be too high.
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Post by Simto » 1 year ago

The Fluff wrote:
1 year ago
Forsaken Monument. Must have two or three of those for my Eldrazi deck. I hope the price won't be too high.
How does it work with Tron lands? Lets say I have all three down and Forsaken Monument. Will the lands only tap for an additional mana each or an additional mana for each mana the lands produce? (Will Mine/power Plant tap for 3 or 4 and will Tower tap for 4 or 6?)

I think it's kinda funny how they specifically made this set to represent Zendikar without Eldrazi and then the only card with an Eldrazi on it is a really good one hehe (it at least looks good).

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

I don't have an answer to that. Maybe just ask at the rulings section. :)
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