[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

Aazadan
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Post by Aazadan » 8 months ago

cfusionpm wrote:
8 months ago
Zendikar Rising releases September 25th. Spoilers likely start in 3 weeks or so? Confirmed no fetchlands in main set, but MaRo said he's getting "a land cycle he has wanted to put into a set for many years." So at least it's not another lump of Temples?
In all fairness, Temples are great design. They're a bit underpowered for Modern excluding some specific decks but are an incredibly well balanced set of Standard lands. Scry 1 is worth about 1/2 a mana, and they come in tapped but are also duals. That puts them on the upper end of CIPT lands, notably being one of the few sets of such lands that are actually playable at a standard competitive level.

They've been doing a lot with fetchable types on lands lately. I'm hoping for something that interacts with that like Checklands do or things like the Nimbus Maze cycle.

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Post by drmarkb » 8 months ago

cfusionpm wrote:
8 months ago
drmarkb wrote:
8 months ago
None are relevant. It is gone. It is not coming back.

Remember when people said that about Jace? And Stoneforge?


My whole post was irrelevant to Modern. As was yours-
One of those topics did, and could, exist in Modern, and was a series of broader looks at banlist criteria for our format. One of them discusses a format that for all practical purposes does not exist in paper and is crippled by a Reserve List that makes playing it legitimately prohibitively expensive.

You clearly don't seem to care about the 'why' so maybe just ignore it and bring up other topics to discuss?
I answered why people keep going on about Twin, which was your question. Your only question in a one line post, iirc. It is there two pages back.

In that I put a one line aside in my longer post that bolt snap bolt exists elsewhere in another format and is popular.
The rest was, as usual, Twin talk, about why people won't let it go- your question.
I love the idea that paper Legacy does not exist, but will drop it. As you suggest.

How about a challenge for you. The next time someone discusses the current ban list you don't (a) refer to wotc having no logic in their ban list or how they just ban what they feel like and (b) when someone posts something you don't agree with about Twin you don't respond, because I think if you don't respond to it the thread won't be endless repetition.
If someone has not been convinced by any of your arguments about Twin yet, they never will be.

And in answer to your point about Jace, SFM. The answer is no I don't. You can't return to a format if you have never been in it. I know what you mean, of course.
Last edited by drmarkb 8 months ago, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by drmarkb » 8 months ago

Temples are good in some decks. The new land set is 6 lands iirc.

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Post by Aazadan » 8 months ago

drmarkb wrote:
8 months ago
Temples are good in some decks. The new land set is 6 lands iirc.
6 lands is a really strange number. There's 10 dual color pairs, 10 tri color pairs, 5 4 color pairs, 5 1 color pairs.

Makes me think it's either a set of tribal lands (feels odd for Zendikar), or a set of single colored lands plus a colorless, which would potentially imply bringing back <> cards.

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Post by The Fluff » 8 months ago

cfusionpm wrote:
8 months ago
Zendikar Rising releases September 25th. Spoilers likely start in 3 weeks or so? Confirmed no fetchlands in main set, but MaRo said he's getting "a land cycle he has wanted to put into a set for many years." So at least it's not another lump of Temples?
thanks a lot for the info, Excited to see this land of Maro. Maybe they're going to give is something new this time? :thinking:

hyped.
drmarkb wrote:
8 months ago
I love the idea that paper Legacy does not exist, but will drop it. As you suggest.
still good memories when legacy paper events still fired in my area about 7 or 8 years ago. In that last 30+ person tournament I went to.. elves vs dredge, slivers vs mono black, landstill vs. landstill. And there was this one person showing off his mox ruby... lol

with stores closed again here in my country.. it's so quiet..
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Post by drmarkb » 8 months ago

Pandemic hurts soooooo much.
In Cardiff (capital of Wales, UK) I know one shop is reopening under prebooking, with compulsory masks and 1.4m tables, self shuffle etc.
I will be going to their Legacy FNM in Sept, DV of course.
They have the space to do it, old converted warehouse, basically.
Elsewhere most places here are not reopening until we can meet without restrictions. With schools reopening and winter approaching the window might be small.

When people are giving you lifts on the condition that you have to wear masks, face shields, windows open etc. it feels like normality is a long way off. Crowds at sports in the UK are due in October, but there will be restrictions no doubt and I doubt they will happen for that long.

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Post by Mtgthewary » 8 months ago

Greeksis wrote:
8 months ago
Wraithpk wrote:
8 months ago
Just an update on Project Modern: apparently Twin is really underperforming so far. And remember, they have Preordain legal (but Veil banned). Lists still need to be refined, but so far it's looking like Twin would be safe.
Underperforming? This seems wrong. The deck is winning things. Btw, this deck is a beauty. It also seems that its backup plan of Uro is great. Its also similar to the list I built two weeks ago.

Update: The top 8 features yet another UR Twin deck.

How exactly is this an underperformance?????????

this is not how I understand : "really underperforming"

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Post by Simto » 8 months ago

drmarkb wrote:
8 months ago
Pandemic hurts soooooo much.
In Cardiff (capital of Wales, UK) I know one shop is reopening under prebooking, with compulsory masks and 1.4m tables, self shuffle etc.
I will be going to their Legacy FNM in Sept, DV of course.
They have the space to do it, old converted warehouse, basically.
Elsewhere most places here are not reopening until we can meet without restrictions. With schools reopening and winter approaching the window might be small.

When people are giving you lifts on the condition that you have to wear masks, face shields, windows open etc. it feels like normality is a long way off. Crowds at sports in the UK are due in October, but there will be restrictions no doubt and I doubt they will happen for that long.
Hope you get to play!
Stores have been open for play for a while here in Denmark, but I'm not going myself. I'm not sitting in a stinky/sweaty basement during a heatwave with all of this %$#% going on. It just screams a bad idea even though it's all but gone here in Denmark. But the stores with events aren't in big warehouses either.
I'm around too many old family members daily so I do everything I can to avoid people and %$#%. Can't risk it.

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Post by drmarkb » 8 months ago

Don't blame you. We are having 0 or 1 death most days here in Wales- it is a small country- but it is never really gone, especially with the upswings in France, Spain, etc. So I will take what I can, as long as social distancing is possible. I will be teaching 11 plus ages, so my risk from that is high by most standards. I will be using flip down visor, mask for all travel, and teaching up close too, and using the portable perspex shield around my desk to boot. Privalages of teaching chemistry I guess.

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Post by The Fluff » 8 months ago

@drmarkb

I hope you have fun on the tournament. Will read it if you post a report at the legacy forums.

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Greeksis wrote:
8 months ago
Wraithpk wrote:
8 months ago
Just an update on Project Modern: apparently Twin is really underperforming so far. And remember, they have Preordain legal (but Veil banned). Lists still need to be refined, but so far it's looking like Twin would be safe.
Underperforming? This seems wrong. The deck is winning things. Btw, this deck is a beauty. It also seems that its backup plan of Uro is great. Its also similar to the list I built two weeks ago.

Update: The top 8 features yet another UR Twin deck.

How exactly is this an underperformance?????????


on this thing called project modern.

seems something wrong with that.. Twin is underperforming, but won a tournament?
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Post by cfusionpm » 8 months ago

I thought y'all hated talking about Twin? 🤷‍♂️
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 8 months ago

Simto wrote:
8 months ago
Hope you get to play!
Stores have been open for play for a while here in Denmark, but I'm not going myself. I'm not sitting in a stinky/sweaty basement during a heatwave with all of this %$#% going on. It just screams a bad idea even though it's all but gone here in Denmark. But the stores with events aren't in big warehouses either.
I'm around too many old family members daily so I do everything I can to avoid people and %$#%. Can't risk it.
drmarkb wrote:
8 months ago
Don't blame you. We are having 0 or 1 death most days here in Wales- it is a small country- but it is never really gone, especially with the upswings in France, Spain, etc. So I will take what I can, as long as social distancing is possible. I will be teaching 11 plus ages, so my risk from that is high by most standards. I will be using flip down visor, mask for all travel, and teaching up close too, and using the portable perspex shield around my desk to boot. Privalages of teaching chemistry I guess.
That's very responsible of both of you and probably is a very shared sentiment among others in your countries. I often wish that the U.S. could have taken it this seriously.

But I also think that it is next to impossible for a group the size of California to do anything united unless the governing agencies forced us to do so, be it monetary rewards for quarantining or consequences for not doing so. There was a mask mandate and you could be fined, but it definitely needed to be taken more seriously. :\

You honestly don't know how jealous I am that paper Magic is played in other areas. Personally I am starting to lose my interest in Magic. I sold a bunch of my collection. I have started watching a lot less twitchtv. The only thing I do is play my Amulet, GR Midrange, Elementals, and Mono Red Prowess against myself and sometimes Cube with friends.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - MBA, UB Inverter
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Yawmoth Chord, Uroza
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by cfusionpm » 8 months ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
8 months ago
I often wish that the U.S. could have taken it this seriously.
It's not that we "didn't take it seriously" it's that half of political spectrum chooses to simply stand against whatever the other side does or wants. Whether that is supported by science, facts, reality, or not. They will then twist and contort and make up any justifiable reason to believe and support those ludicrous beliefs ("masks are an attack on my personal freedoms" etc.). And it's this combination of "I do what I want" and "Screw them" that has left us as the shambling ruins of the world's capital in infection and death. And every bit of this delusional, dangerous viewpoint is supported by the leader of our country as well as the largest "news" outlet on TV.

All the while, people like me have been suffering and going mad inside for the last 5 months, not leaving the house for more than a few hours a week to simply get groceries, following all safety recommendations, and being absolutely miserable in doing my part to help contain spread (which is personally very important due to imunocompromised parents).

Basically, we can't play Magic because a sizable portion of our fellow citizens unknowingly or unwillingly accept the very real threat of COVID-19's wave of destruction, and think that gathering, partying, and waiving a middle finger at health and safety is the best use of their efforts.

Plenty of us are taking it seriously. The problem is that those of us who are not, disproportionately f**k ALL OF THE REST OF US.

/soapbox

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Post by Mtgthewary » 8 months ago

cfusionpm wrote:
8 months ago
I thought y'all hated talking about Twin? 🤷‍♂️
because it is a real tournament happening "at this moment" and not a repeat of 3737 already taken arguments over and over again and the answers of :" I just want saying..." (and repeating same again for 3738) . so I think Projekt modern talks are fine if we can stay actually related to this experiences there

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Post by The Fluff » 8 months ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
8 months ago
There was a mask mandate and you could be fined, but it definitely needed to be taken more seriously. :\
about two weeks ago, I had the chance to talk to a radiologist who visited. Told me two of his coworkers went to work x-ray machines in the US. Those two men came back home to our country as ashes. Had no way to verify if this is true, but the person I talked to has no reason to lie to me..

also in another forum I was talking yesterday with a friend who lived in the US, she told me there was one guy selling "Survival kits", then the fans of this guy believes the wipes in the survival kit would save them from corona. Madness..
You honestly don't know how jealous I am that paper Magic is played in other areas. Personally I am starting to lose my interest in Magic. I sold a bunch of my collection. I have started watching a lot less twitchtv. The only thing I do is play my Amulet, GR Midrange, Elementals, and Mono Red Prowess against myself and sometimes Cube with friends.
it's fine to lay low for awhile, let this pandemic pass. Right now, there isn't really much to do,

I can't even invite cousins or friends to come to the house to play mtg, It's simply too risky with cases rising.

right now, I'm simply fine tuning decks based on what I see on the net. And also waiting patiently for the cards that scg shipped.
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Post by cfusionpm » 8 months ago

Mtgthewary wrote:
8 months ago
cfusionpm wrote:
8 months ago
I thought y'all hated talking about Twin? 🤷‍♂️
because it is a real tournament happening "at this moment" and not a repeat of 3737 already taken arguments over and over again and the answers of :" I just want saying..." (and repeating same again for 3738).
A: OMG why are Twin players so obsessed? Can't they just let it go?
B: Here's a detailed explanation why; directly answering your question.
A: Omg can we just stop talking about Twin already?
...
A, later: So Twin did this thing...

:explode:
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Post by Mtgthewary » 8 months ago

I explained to you allready and you can understand it if you want it. Project MODERN making NOW tournaments. if you can't see a difference to the last several years it's up to you. no ban tournaments by the way are a good reason too talking about. you don't need to be silent 100% and never talk about Twin, it should make only a sense talking about because something new is happening

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Post by Mtgthewary » 8 months ago

Greeksis wrote:
8 months ago
cfusionpm wrote:
8 months ago
Mtgthewary wrote:
8 months ago
because it is a real tournament happening "at this moment" and not a repeat of 3737 already taken arguments over and over again and the answers of :" I just want saying..." (and repeating same again for 3738).
A: OMG why are Twin players so obsessed? Can't they just let it go?
B: Here's a detailed explanation why; directly answering your question.
A: Omg can we just stop talking about Twin already?
...
A, later: So Twin did this thing...

:explode:
This was a reply to someone who opened the twin subject, providing a seemingly wrong information.
What you are doing now is also twin talk btw.
yes it surprised me too. after reading it is underperforming... really underperforming... I believed it without checking myself. thanks for this greeksis

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Post by cfusionpm » 8 months ago

Greeksis wrote:
8 months ago
This was a reply to someone who opened the twin subject, providing a seemingly wrong information.
I thought you hated this? Or is it just when it comes from me? :party:
Mtgthewary wrote:
8 months ago
yes it surprised me too. after reading it is underperforming... really underperforming... I believed it without checking myself.
A single deck spiking a single event is wholly irrelevant, and everyone here should know better. Is there a breakdown analysis of the metagame, top 8, or any other relevant data?
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Post by cfusionpm » 8 months ago

Greeksis wrote:
8 months ago
As @Mtgthewary is saying, we now have concrete data. They don't mean much; but they do.
Where is this data posted?

There's nothing on their Twitter besides a single decklist, and navigating their Discord (a service I hate with a burning passion) only found this line of analysis:

• Twin: how is it affecting the meta so far; most shells are middling at best based on results, uro twin is best performing, twin fine for now
TwinPM.PNG
Edit: Upon further inspection, the winner of this "event" apparently did so with a 4-0 victory. So unless I am mistaken, this was a 4-round event, which is one less than an MTGO League. I would put very little weight behind this result.

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Post by cfusionpm » 8 months ago

Greeksis wrote:
8 months ago
I expect twin to be a dominant force from now on.
That seems to be the opposite analysis I am seeing everywhere on their Discord. And if anything, leading to Uro being a problem more than anything else. I quoted and highlighted the relevant discussions from the committee in an attachment above.

Additionally, this "event" apparently had 7 people in it. Seven.


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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 8 months ago

FWIW, a quick look at the results and the tournament could not have had only 7 people in it. Overall, there are 4 more wins than losses, which is mathematically impossible.

My best guess would be 1 player at 0-4 and they didn't want to mention him/her for discretion reasons. But this is just a complete guess.
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Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by cfusionpm » 8 months ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
8 months ago
FWIW, a quick look at the results and the tournament could not have had only 7 people in it. Overall, there are 4 more wins than losses, which is mathematically impossible.

My best guess would be 1 player at 0-4 and they didn't want to mention him/her for discretion reasons. But this is just a complete guess.
They also could have had the two lowest results play each other twice. Dunno.

Either way, this is about 1/4 the size of our average pre-COVID FNM.... :woozy:

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Post by rcwraspy » 8 months ago

I haven't posted in a "state of modern" thread on here or on Salvation in a very long time. It has a lot to do with Twin being the singular topic, regardless of who "starts it".

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Post by Mtgthewary » 8 months ago

cfusionpm wrote:
8 months ago
Greeksis wrote:
8 months ago
This was a reply to someone who opened the twin subject, providing a seemingly wrong information.
I thought you hated this? Or is it just when it comes from me? :party:
Mtgthewary wrote:
8 months ago
yes it surprised me too. after reading it is underperforming... really underperforming... I believed it without checking myself.
A single deck spiking a single event is wholly irrelevant, and everyone here should know better. Is there a breakdown analysis of the metagame, top 8, or any other relevant data?
yes maybe it means nothing....but it's only because statement was : "really underperforming" and this is absolute wrong. it's new, people brewing still and I believe soon it will be stronger and stronger because other decks are 100% best shells allready

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