[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

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idSurge
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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

FCG, no offense but I consistently doubt the views you state your friends express. You play with spikes. They are not interested in format health, they are not interested in a diverse and interesting meta.

You ban Lurrus, and you ban Yorion.

If you want to actually fix Modern going forward, you do more than that, but that is the BARE MINIMUM.
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
FCG, no offense but I consistently doubt the views you state your friends express. You play with spikes. They are not interested in format health, they are not interested in a diverse and interesting meta.

You ban Lurrus, and you ban Yorion.

If you want to actually fix Modern going forward, you do more than that, but that is the BARE MINIMUM.
No offense taken. I actually have many different play groups that I play with. I've been playing the game for too long. At GPs, it can even be a major distraction to be honest. One of my friends is Alex and he's probably one of the few players that I know somewhat closely who knows more players than myself. I believe it's because even though I've played longer, he has grinded like crazy in the time that he has played, which is still super long.

But with my FNM group, they are not spikes. Sure, they all love to win and some are very good at it, but they stick mostly to decks that they enjoy. They rarely even go with the flavor of the week or whatever's killing it currently. That's me for the most part. Most of that FNM group from that particular WhatsApp don't even go to GPs or rarely do, so in my mind even a great FNM player is untested unless they've run into 3-4 Pros on Day 2 of a GP. I would say that the players have been doing Modern for 3-4 years on the average and just really enjoy playing it. I even try to coerce some of them to play weekend events because I think they're good enough, but they usually decline. They just don't have that broad of a view because they don't read too much about it like I do.

As for bans, yes, that is the minimum. But that is all that should happen on the first ban announcement. Yes, there's other stuff that should go as well, but I don't think you ban too much in too short a period of time. That's just too much. We've already had so much shaken up; I don't want more. Veil and AA should be on the short list next, followed by Uro and Mystic Sanctuary (this should not have been an Island subtype).
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Jeskai Phoenix, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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idSurge
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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
As for bans, yes, that is the minimum. But that is all that should happen on the first ban announcement. Yes, there's other stuff that should go as well, but I don't think you ban too much in too short a period of time. That's just too much. We've already had so much shaken up; I don't want more. Veil and AA should be on the short list next, followed by Uro and Mystic Sanctuary (this should not have been an Island subtype).
Veil and AA should just go. Enough with partial half measures. Just remove this stuff. Take Sanctuary if you need, but please lets stop thinking Modern is 'almost fine'.
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Post by metalmusic_4 » 1 year ago

They should ban lurrus and astrolabe for sure imo, at the next announcement. I'm not completely ready to pull the trigger to ban any other cards until those are handled.

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

metalmusic_4 wrote:
1 year ago
They should ban lurrus and astrolabe for sure imo, at the next announcement. I'm not completely ready to pull the trigger to ban any other cards until those are handled.
I could be convinced Lurrus/Astrolabe, before Yorion. You gotta hit one or the other though. Oh and Veil has no right to exist. :p
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Post by Ed06288 » 1 year ago

magic feels a lot like dying facebook games. gimmicky releases of characters and things, and over-complicating previously simple features.

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Post by Amalgam » 1 year ago

So when will enough be enough? Wizards has clearly changed in the last few years and it keeps getting worse. We complained about 2019 being the worst but look at us now and look at the fact that wizards now releases new paper product endlessly. I mean just today they revealed 5 secret lairs(21 have been released in the last 6 months) and we also have Double Masters and jumpstart all coming this in the next couple months.
Paper magic was in a rough spot and now with Covid I feel a lot of stores are just dead or will struggle for numbers. In my country we are back open again but no one is buying paper or turning up for paper events.
I know people claim that 'Arena' is the future of the game but wizards is so incompetent with the game and it lacking a mobile client basically stagnated it.
I love Modern, Legacy and paper magic but I honestly can't feel the game being in a good place in the next 18 months. It feels like it's only going to get worse and worse and every format in the game is already on fire right now.
With this track record how do we even begin to mention that Modern needs fixing when it's wizards themselves that need fixing.

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Post by metalmusic_4 » 1 year ago

idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
metalmusic_4 wrote:
1 year ago
They should ban lurrus and astrolabe for sure imo, at the next announcement. I'm not completely ready to pull the trigger to ban any other cards until those are handled.
I could be convinced Lurrus/Astrolabe, before Yorion. You gotta hit one or the other though. Oh and Veil has no right to exist. :p
Yorion and veil are certainly being looked at, but I feel lurrus and astrolabe are in a league of their own and have to be handled first. I could be convinced they should all go in one announcement, but I'd rather just hit lurrus/astrolabe asap.

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Post by Amalgam » 1 year ago

Greeksis wrote:
1 year ago
This is a thing that some of you, would probably enjoy. idSurge looped me into this basically.

Feel free to join:

Project Modern: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25620
Honestly if something like this blew up or became visible to wizards it would really send them a message

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Post by drmarkb » 1 year ago

The Fluff wrote:
1 year ago
FoodChainGoblins wrote:
1 year ago
The Fluff wrote:
1 year ago
Looking forward to Core 2021 adding cards to the modern card pool. :)
I beg that this set is not as broken as War of the Spark, Throne of Eldraine, or Ikoria. I mean, I usually hope that Core Sets are stronger than they end up being, but I would be so scared if something is so good that it even invalidates Companions, AA, Uro, and Veil. :dizzy:
I'm optimistic that the set has some cards.. which will further help me improve my decks in modern.
Excited for spoiler season to start.

modern: Bant Snow, Mono Red Prowess
pioneer: nothing competitive.. only casual abzan cats
I certainly admire anyone optimistic right now. I view spoilers with dread, but if you can manage optimism for your decks you are a better person than me. Mind you, they are actively trying to kill my decks.

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Post by drmarkb » 1 year ago

For me, I would rebrand modern, legacy and vintage as eternal, and ban companion in them.
I can't think that there are enough bans that would make Modern what I want, I don't know how many bans would be needed to make it acceptable to the many. I guess when they banned Lattice I officially thought the format was beyond repair. Banning on fun grounds is never acceptable to me, and if lattice was an issue I am Donald Trump. Now tron lands have been an issue forever, sure, but a 6 mana artifact comboing with a 4 mana walker to win provided the opponent can't just smash the walker with what they have on field? No. That day the format lost credibility. At that point I felt like saying, I hate creatures, find combat dull, can we ban combat, and I never dropped a Modern lattice or registered one, so have no axe to grind. Anything that makes Blood Moon and Chalice haters f*** off to other formats is good and lattice did that, it annoys those who feel cheated if they have lost to a non combat deck. I just don't want to play with people who have no time for what they don't consider to be fun.
Back to Modern, I just can't see bans working without a change in direction from design, not only from whatever battlecruiser garbage coming round the corner, but because the pool would need a huge cull to rebalance threats to answers.

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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

Just play Taking Turns. You dont need combat.
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Post by ktkenshinx » 1 year ago

Final article is up. Thanks for those who gave feedback!

Article link
Reddit link

I'm cautiously optimistic Wizards announces their pending banlist changes next Monday or even earlier. Lurrus and companions have created so many glaring issues across all formats that it's unbelievable to me we won't see clear changes soon. Both banlist and mechanical changes are likely on the table, and at this point, my guess is that the major holdup on action is just determining the best change. Mechanical changes in particular might take longer than just bans.
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idSurge
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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

I dont think we get anything, unless we get an Announcement of the Announcement today.
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Post by idSurge » 1 year ago

Looking at Reddit there (I don't use it) the mind boggles at the head space some people exist in.
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Post by TheBoulderer » 1 year ago

idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
Looking at Reddit there (I don't use it) the mind boggles at the head space some people exist in.
I won't go into detail, but looking at the world and the stuff that happens in it has taught me that the average person is ignorant at best. This is true in most areas, why should it be different in mtg...

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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

TheBoulderer wrote:
1 year ago
idSurge wrote:
1 year ago
Looking at Reddit there (I don't use it) the mind boggles at the head space some people exist in.
I won't go into detail, but looking at the world and the stuff that happens in it has taught me that the average person is ignorant at best. This is true in most areas, why should it be different in mtg...
Super off topic, but...
As a teacher, my experience seems to be that about 1/3 of people genuinely want to learn and think about things critically. Which is really uplifting for the most part. Of the remaining group, only a small portion actually *can't* do things. Most just have zero desire to want to learn or think critically. Motivating them to do so is the most difficult thing about teaching (even before the shutdown and distance learning). The number of kids and parents that simply don't value education is always worrying.

But it's also why I find it so fascinating to engage with these communities; to see why they tick, or why they believe what they do.

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

drmarkb wrote:
1 year ago
The Fluff wrote:
1 year ago
I'm optimistic that the set has some cards.. which will further help me improve my decks in modern.
Excited for spoiler season to start.

modern: Bant Snow, Mono Red Prowess
pioneer: nothing competitive.. only casual abzan cats
I certainly admire anyone optimistic right now. I view spoilers with dread, but if you can manage optimism for your decks you are a better person than me. Mind you, they are actively trying to kill my decks.
reason is I'm mostly content with what wotc has given - it's the reason I'm mostly silent here.
With quarantine at it's end at June 1, excited to try out the two modern decks I have with more people.
________________

noticed that you're mostly a fan of creatureless decks? I think you find more of those kinds in legacy.
Had a storm combo deck in legacy, comboed people at turn 3.. or turn 1 with christmas land draw, was fun while it lasted. :)
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Post by drmarkb » 1 year ago

I own a lot of low creature decks in Legacy. Legacy dudes tend to be cheated 20 20s. Or manlands. Or Food Tokens. I do like hatebear decks in Modern, but you need better one drop hate bears. They just don't make them like they used to....post thalia has been a desert of near misses and fails.

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Post by The Fluff » 1 year ago

my friend has a competitive Marit Lage deck. Played against it several times when our playgroup still did legacy. Although we've all quit somewhere in 2017. Reason is there's no other people to play with except our small group of 4 people. We all transferred to modern, then there's plenty of people to play with again.
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Post by Amalgam » 1 year ago

Well june 1st has been announced to have standard/historic bans plus a change to the companion mechanic. Mark the date in your calenders

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Post by cfusionpm » 1 year ago

Amalgam wrote:
1 year ago
Well june 1st has been announced to have standard/historic bans plus a change to the companion mechanic. Mark the date in your calenders
Saw that too. Notably, NOT addressing Modern. I don't even give a sh*t why anymore.


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Post by blkdemonight » 1 year ago

I don't get why Historic of all things. That format isn't paper legal format, unless they intended to run paid leagues on Arena.

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Post by Amalgam » 1 year ago

Worth another note is that CFB events is being dissolved, what this means for paper magic we will yet see.
Things do seem to be going from bad to worse though for paper magic in general

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 1 year ago

blkdemonight wrote:
1 year ago
I don't get why Historic of all things. That format isn't paper legal format, unless they intended to run paid leagues on Arena.
I don't understand either. I don't even know what Historic is, nor want to know what it is. My friend told me that he was having fun with Gruul on Arena in Historic, but I've had several high level players tell me that Historic is solved. I never had heard of the format until someone said it was solved. That doesn't entice me. I don't care how bad Modern gets; it doesn't entice me. If things get super bad, I'll just play it sparingly and focus on Legacy and Limited. I never really hated Limited per se; I just never had time to get better at some specific sets because I was focusing on other stuff.
Amalgam wrote:
1 year ago
Worth another note is that CFB events is being dissolved, what this means for paper magic we will yet see.
Things do seem to be going from bad to worse though for paper magic in general
What? That sounds terrible. I hope this is not true or just temporary.

I feel that for Standard, Fires of Invention and Wilderness Reclamation are probably gone, in addition to Companion now making you have 1 less card to start with in your hand, but everything else being the same. Yes, it's sad for Modern, but it's at least something. I guess Modern and Pioneer are on the back burner for now.

*On a side note, I know that 5 Secret Lairs came out and it seems Hasbro is trying to milk us. But I still have hopes for some formats and I don't think that milking us necessarily means that they don't care about formats. Not doing changes in a timely manner DO mean that; I can agree with that.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - DEAD
Modern - Jund Sacrifice, Jeskai Phoenix, Elementals, Trollementals, BR Asmo/Goryo's, Yawmoth Chord
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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