[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

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FoodChainGoblins
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 11 months ago

idSurge wrote:
11 months ago
You cant ask if it is ok now. You have to look at the setting in which it was unbanned.

Jace was fine. More than fine, it was a 'meh whatever'.

SFM? Less than that.
I just kind of want to rub it in since people always say what ifs, then a card never gets unbanned. "What if Preordain enables combo to win on turn 2 or 3?" "What if Green Sun's Zenith allows combo to win on turns 2 or 3 consistently?" Guess what people, there is worse stuff, way worse, happening right now in Modern and has been just in case nobody noticed.

I will admit that there wasn't much talk about Sword. The biggest argument was that it will help Lantern, which I'm not sure if ever developed into a Tier 1 deck (albeit annoying as %$#%). Jace, TMS had a lot of arguments and even I thought that it would be much, much better than it is now. I guess a lot of that also depended on what was printed after that though. Stoneforge was one that stayed banned forever and I felt like it being banned for so long GAVE people the ammo to say that it was not okay. I guess people kind of ate their words on that one, although having Oko, Thief of Crowns and other better stuff makes lil old Kor look very average at best. :P
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - MBA, UB Inverter
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Yawmoth Chord, Uroza
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by idSurge » 11 months ago

Nah, Sword did nothing. It had a window with Urza, but....we all know its not Sword that is the issue there.

Thats the thing. We have all these people who seemingly are good players, who simply dont know %$#%.

'What if Preordain...' lol does what? Against BR Lurrus.

Wake up folks.
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 11 months ago

idSurge wrote:
11 months ago
Nah, Sword did nothing. It had a window with Urza, but....we all know its not Sword that is the issue there.

Thats the thing. We have all these people who seemingly are good players, who simply dont know %$#%.

'What if Preordain...' lol does what? Against BR Lurrus.

Wake up folks.
They hear stories. UR Splinter Twin with Preordain, Ponder, Gitaxian Probe or Mono Blue Infect with Ponder, Preordain, Gitaxian Probe, Blazing Shoal or UR Storm with Preordain, Ponder, Gitaxian Probe, Seething Song, Rite of Flame. They see some fairly busted decks, and I say fairly busted because there's been worse %$#% since then, and they don't want a supposed repeat of that.

The problem is that Modern is so much more different than those times. Most of those other cards that I mentioned have been banned since and Preordain is the least of the offenders. Many people think that Preordain and Ponder must be unbanned together and that they are similar in power level. You don't know how many people talk about Ponder when I bring up Preordain. I tell them that just because they both start with a "P" doesn't mean that they can't be talked about separately.

They think that a possible return to those times would be worse than whatever Hasbro has in store for us in Return to Return to Zendikar. They have less faith that Modern has changed since 2012 than they have in the current WotC design team. And some players just don't want to return to something that has already been banned, even if it is not good. I can actually somewhat empathize with that position, but I feel like that leaves ban mistakes like Bloodbraid Elf or Bridge from Below out in the cold. I don't think it's right to not revisit something, especially when the ban had commotion or dissent surrounding it.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - MBA, UB Inverter
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Yawmoth Chord, Uroza
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by idSurge » 11 months ago

Yeah, they hear stories. Or they cherry pick a single weekend and then state "UW Control is really just too good right now." or they completely misunderstand the format they supposedly manage and state that Sword just makes Lantern too good, and Jace has a 'grave in Modern' and that Twin limits competitive diversity.

*looks at Lurrus Modern*

Right.

The fact of the matter is, Wizards has fooled us all along. People THOUGHT:

They understood the format.
They understood the reason people played it.
They understood what was too strong, or was 'interesting lines of play'. (I will never, ever, get over that....)
They had our interests in mind.
They cared about competitive integrity.

With respect, the people you talk too seem like they have a massive bias, or are simply ignorant to how the game has (d)evolved, and what it would take to return to the best Modern we had.

The best format in the history of this game, was 2015, pre Twin Ban, pre-Eldrazi, Modern.
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Post by drmarkb » 11 months ago

The history of MTG?
Not even the best in the history of Modern.
https://www.mtgtop8.com/format?f=MO&meta=101

Notice something?
Out of 3000 decks, the most popular white decks (UW and UWx) combine to make.......130 decks.
5 % of the meta. The next white decks are 1% martyr and boggles.

Good metas need to have all the colours in somewhere, preferably in many places. You need to really stop thinking everyone else was enjoying BG x vs Twin as much as you were. It was a pretty garbage year if you did not like those decks or affinity/tron.

Try 2017
. https://www.mtgtop8.com/format?f=MO&meta=142

White count- 4 % hatebear, 7 % UW control/midrange (8 with Nahiri). The two UR decks alone is the same as the 5% white decks in 2017. Just two bans too.

I know it does not fit in with preferences for Twin, but set Twin aside- just on paper 2017 looks better than 2015. A closer combo-control ratio too, even if aggro is over represented in both.

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Post by The Fluff » 11 months ago

Looking forward to Core 2021 adding cards to the modern card pool. :)
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want to play a uw control deck in modern, but don't have Jace or snapcaster? please come visit us at the Emeria thread

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 11 months ago

The Fluff wrote:
11 months ago
Looking forward to Core 2021 adding cards to the modern card pool. :)
I beg that this set is not as broken as War of the Spark, Throne of Eldraine, or Ikoria. I mean, I usually hope that Core Sets are stronger than they end up being, but I would be so scared if something is so good that it even invalidates Companions, AA, Uro, and Veil. :dizzy:
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - MBA, UB Inverter
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Yawmoth Chord, Uroza
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by idSurge » 11 months ago

drmarkb wrote:
11 months ago
The history of MTG?
Not even the best in the history of Modern.
https://www.mtgtop8.com/format?f=MO&meta=101

Notice something?
Out of 3000 decks, the most popular white decks (UW and UWx) combine to make.......130 decks.
5 % of the meta. The next white decks are 1% martyr and boggles.

Good metas need to have all the colours in somewhere, preferably in many places. You need to really stop thinking everyone else was enjoying BG x vs Twin as much as you were. It was a pretty garbage year if you did not like those decks or affinity/tron.

Try 2017
. https://www.mtgtop8.com/format?f=MO&meta=142

White count- 4 % hatebear, 7 % UW control/midrange (8 with Nahiri). The two UR decks alone is the same as the 5% white decks in 2017. Just two bans too.

I know it does not fit in with preferences for Twin, but set Twin aside- just on paper 2017 looks better than 2015. A closer combo-control ratio too, even if aggro is over represented in both.
Nah. I'll stick with 2015, big time. White had its issues, but Nahiri was a flash in the pan, it had zero staying power. The UW deck of 2017, also was not good enough at all.

If you remove Twin and somehow make UR Control playable in 2015 (spoilers, it isnt, hasnt been, and never could have been) I would still take 2015 Magic over the slop they push out today.

2018 was the 2nd best time frame, because we got Big Teferi to actually make Control playable.
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 11 months ago

Everyone has their own idea of what was the best Modern. That's why so many people love the format, outside of Throne of Eldraine and on.

I personally enjoyed every single Modern except Eye of Ugin Eldrazi, Hogaak Vine, and from Oko, Thief of Crowns and on. I've seen a lot of Pros say that the Oko metagame had a lot of decisions, but I don't see it that way. I see it mostly as +Oko any way you can and win. I mean, I personally had decks that were fine vs. Oko, but there weren't many of them.

@idSurge - you have to realize that not everyone will enjoy BG vs. UR as the top decks for so long. It got stale and anyone who enjoys White was basically relegated to the best SB color, Tier 2 or worse, or just waiting for something for so long. Honestly I don't think White has ever been that good of a main color in Modern - 5 Color Humans was the closest. I personally don't care, just like I don't care how Pod pushed out any other type of Midrange and Burn. But I also understand that there are many players that LOVE playing these strategies and it's not fair to them.

Usually one of the main things I saw during BG vs. UR or Jund/Twin/Pod was that there is no deck that has a solid matchup vs. all 3, so you have to choose which one (at the least) of those you are okay with mauling you. I'm not saying that the game play itself was horrible because it wasn't. There was a lot of intricate thought within matches, which is good. I'm just saying that everyone has different likes and dislikes.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - MBA, UB Inverter
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Yawmoth Chord, Uroza
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by drmarkb » 11 months ago

idSurge wrote:
11 months ago
drmarkb wrote:
11 months ago
The history of MTG?
Not even the best in the history of Modern.
https://www.mtgtop8.com/format?f=MO&meta=101

Notice something?
Out of 3000 decks, the most popular white decks (UW and UWx) combine to make.......130 decks.
5 % of the meta. The next white decks are 1% martyr and boggles.

Good metas need to have all the colours in somewhere, preferably in many places. You need to really stop thinking everyone else was enjoying BG x vs Twin as much as you were. It was a pretty garbage year if you did not like those decks or affinity/tron.

Try 2017
. https://www.mtgtop8.com/format?f=MO&meta=142

White count- 4 % hatebear, 7 % UW control/midrange (8 with Nahiri). The two UR decks alone is the same as the 5% white decks in 2017. Just two bans too.

I know it does not fit in with preferences for Twin, but set Twin aside- just on paper 2017 looks better than 2015. A closer combo-control ratio too, even if aggro is over represented in both.
Nah. I'll stick with 2015, big time. White had its issues, but Nahiri was a flash in the pan, it had zero staying power. The UW deck of 2017, also was not good enough at all.

If you remove Twin and somehow make UR Control playable in 2015 (spoilers, it isnt, hasnt been, and never could have been) I would still take 2015 Magic over the slop they push out today.

2018 was the 2nd best time frame, because we got Big Teferi to actually make Control playable.
Nahiri was just 1 pc of the meta, not sure if you are talking about the deck or card. Obviously I dislike today as much as you do, you will find no argument there, but 2017 vs 2015 us a different story. Modern metas need to look more like 17 than 15, which as I have shown had almost no control outside of Tron and almost no white.

The UW and midrange 2017 deck had a much higher uptake than 2015, you can see the numbers, it was closer to unplayable in 2015 hence lower numbers, and better in 2017. All the stats make 2017 look better, control is a significantly higher pc of the meta than 2015, and yes, I agree control should be there which is why your love of 2015 does not chime with your statements on control. Control was awful in 2015, combo decks were higher than 2017 at control's expense- you can see that from the figures. I guess you got to play control and combo, which brings us back to Twin. I think you enjoyed 2015 because of Twin, and you know the meta was impossible for straight control or disruptive aggro/control like hatebears. I think your metrics for a good meta are more satisfied by 2017, but it did not have Twin, so is less of a fond memory. Understandable.

Of course, Twins' spiritual successors are control combo decks, there are not many in Modern but there are loads in Legacy. I guess Whirza decks are both in Modern, but they are less about the stack. Twin itself was played on the fringes of Legacy, in the rogue section, it was that good.
2018 was not bad at all, I enjoyed the early wild west, but 2018 was not bad. Modern has been flawed a while but not on fire for that long. Or should that be on FIRE.

Food chains summed it up in terms of deck choice, and for some of us deck choice decisions matter as much as in play decisions. I don't ask for much, but a playable white based hatebear deck, in combo with any colour, or a straight non creature prison deck of any sort (you would expect it to be white or black in some form).
I guess Modern is dead in many ways now. Our LGS finished it at FNM, the other one 50 mile away moved it to Cardiff, there were people trying to bring it back here but not many. I give the format three years, one more MH2 next year, and then a quiet retirement eighteen months after if numbers drop and they convince enough players to switch to Pioneer via making the prizes about Pioneer. Pioneer masters or horizons should be the one that swings it, if they make it and it sells well that will be the canary. Right now Modern is more popular because Pioneer is anaemic to older players, all combat and walkers with one combo deck.

They could de register both Leg and Mod as Friday formats, I think we would find a way to go on with Leg, a lot of Legacy is community driven and allowing proxies anyway. Modern does not have the love of its player base. Another year of FIRE will solidify that.

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Post by The Fluff » 11 months ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
11 months ago
The Fluff wrote:
11 months ago
Looking forward to Core 2021 adding cards to the modern card pool. :)
I beg that this set is not as broken as War of the Spark, Throne of Eldraine, or Ikoria. I mean, I usually hope that Core Sets are stronger than they end up being, but I would be so scared if something is so good that it even invalidates Companions, AA, Uro, and Veil. :dizzy:
I'm optimistic that the set has some cards.. which will further help me improve my decks in modern.
Excited for spoiler season to start.

modern: Bant Snow, Mono Red Prowess
pioneer: nothing competitive.. only casual abzan cats
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want to play a uw control deck in modern, but don't have Jace or snapcaster? please come visit us at the Emeria thread

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Post by idSurge » 11 months ago

I still do feel Terminus should be removed from a design and meta perspective. Not that it matters now, but in a world where the format is aiming to be balanced. :p
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Post by metalmusic_4 » 11 months ago

I'm not trying to restart the twin arguement. This is a twin video, but that is not important for what I'm asking. At the beginning and end of this video the commentator talks about he is assisting "the counsel" to provide some data. I tried to do some searches for what he is talking about and didn't find anything. Does anyone know what this counsel is or have a link to where I can read about them and what exactly they do? I can make assumptions based on what he says, but I want to read about it and know for sure.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 4WoV5NduVc

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Post by idSurge » 11 months ago

I'll also say, go to that website again and look at what happens if you make the cut off for 'member of the meta' at 2% or more. 2015, 2017, and 2018 have 20+ decks, but look at what happens in 2019 and 2020.

metalmusic_4: The council there I believe would refer to the balance team/council that is putting together the 'Not Modern but Modern' format in discord.

Someone linked it I think, and I have the project link on Twitter.
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Post by ThatStoryTeller » 11 months ago

@metalmusic_4 the council refers to the people analyzing the format for ban and unban considerations. People are digging their heels in and building a community format that evolves with new printings.

"We have formed a council group of 9 people, including myself for the time being, that will be responsible for focused discussions on the state of the format and how to incorporate changes in the coming months. We have players from a variety of backgrounds including more casual players, an SCG open winner, MTGO and tournament grinders, judges, and a professional game designer/balancer. The community will have a chance to make their voice heard by reconfirming us to another session or making vacancies for new people to fill. Other members of the community are working on infrastructure and a website to help us organize play and track data and developments to help people see what the state of the format is. And we intend to keep open communication with those that want to be involved with the group and engage a player-driven format."

@idSurge its taking some time to get the information organized, but from what Im reading the Project Modern crew is updating to evaluate Modern Horizons and War of the Spark for problematic cards. The twitter page is quiet while the data is being accumulated but heres what they are looking to do. They are going through tournaments to test twin and faithless looting in the new environments to see if they should be on the Project Banned list. So far when MH1 analysis starts Urza is off the table, as opal is watchlisted with looting and twin.

This is more of what you were looking for, I have underlined my reasons for wanting to watch this project develop. But this is what they are seeking to work towards.

The goals of this player-driven format then, are:
- To have an engaging way for more experienced players to play a competitive-minded format
- To allow you to play with a pool of unique cards not affected by the reserve list
- Offer decks and playstyles of a higher base power level than what has generally been considered for sanctioned formats that don't reach as far back into the history of the game
-Remain a functionally non-rotating format, where new cards are allowed to come in but poorly thought out design philosophies don't drive down the value of skill and mastery
-Maintain strategic diversity across the format power spectrum
-Ban cards as necessary to achieve the aforementioned goals with a mind towards removing cards that lessen the necessary upkeep in future changes
-Keep player engagement in the management of the format while aiming for stability instead of constant change
-Share data accumulated across the community in order to help keep an open and reasonable discussion so we can all be stewards of our game.

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Post by idSurge » 11 months ago

I've come to the conclusion that the Project Modern task is the most important thing we as players can actually impact.

Wizard's has flat out proven that they are not up to the task, and frankly do not even appear to be interested in the task, of maintaining healthy non-rotational formats.

Its a shame that Discord is an absolutely abysmal format for communication over time, but I'm going to try and poke my head in and see whats up.
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Post by blkdemonight » 11 months ago

I find Greeksis hard to take seriously when he promotes Pioneer, since he tell people earlier in the topic to have fun brewing in modern just to go "I don't like Modern" .

Honestly, I fear the possibility that either Hasbro or Wizards thought the best way to fight piracy is to constantly sell new pushed cards... everytime a set gets released with new cards.

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 11 months ago

idSurge wrote:
11 months ago
Its a shame that Discord is an absolutely abysmal format for communication over time, but I'm going to try and poke my head in and see whats up.
Pretty much.

I had friends that kept trying to get me to go there and I kept making excuses. Finally I did and it's like 1 message every week. I realize that there are Discords that go quicker and it seems like an okay tool, but I have that exact same feeling as you do - for me, it's trash. It hasn't accomplished a single thing for me.
blkdemonight wrote:
11 months ago
I find Greeksis hard to take seriously when he promotes Pioneer, since he tell people earlier in the topic to have fun brewing in modern just to go "I don't like Modern" .

Honestly, I fear the possibility that either Hasbro or Wizards thought the best way to fight piracy is to constantly sell new pushed cards... everytime a set gets released with new cards.
A lot of Modern players have moved toward Pioneer. But what does that have to do with us, the ones who have stayed? So I kind of see where he's coming from, but moving on to Pioneer is NOT a solution to Modern (like you alluded to).

There is a local LGS that opened a half year ago. It is now the largest LGS and they have pushed Pioneer like crazy, including with their own Team. They have aggressively bought Pioneer cards and shied away from Modern and Legacy. This is not to even mention their attitudes towards those formats. I don't mean this as anything personal, as I'm cool with both owners (1 owner previously got me on another Team years back), but they really didn't have any kind of offer for my Modern/Legacy collection, which I figured I'd offer to them first (before the big buyers on FB). They have only done Modern events a few times when they realized that there is a big crowd that is actually interested in Modern. SoCal is kind of a haven for Modern players or at least that's what I've seen since I'm a Modern player.

My feelings on Pioneer... I don't like the format at all. I only use the format as a tool to win prizes or to play Magic when no other format that I like is available. It is an extremely shallow format in comparison to Modern or Legacy. There's not as much room for brews and innovations. There's not enough good tools to stop stuff - hence why Thoughtseize is literally the only reliable way.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - MBA, UB Inverter
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Yawmoth Chord, Uroza
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 11 months ago

Greeksis wrote:
11 months ago
FoodChainGoblins wrote:
11 months ago

A lot of Modern players have moved toward Pioneer. But what does that have to do with us, the ones who have stayed? So I kind of see where he's coming from, but moving on to Pioneer is NOT a solution to Modern (like you alluded to).
Basically my post was pretty much huge and people kept this one thing they didn't like, it feels little bit unfair, but we will do.
Pioneer is a solution to magic for me. If you can understand what i mean.
My feelings on Pioneer... I don't like the format at all. I only use the format as a tool to win prizes or to play Magic when no other format that I like is available. It is an extremely shallow format in comparison to Modern or Legacy. There's not as much room for brews and innovations. There's not enough good tools to stop stuff - hence why Thoughtseize is literally the only reliable way.
I don't know about you, but my weird Bant Control makes me 4-1 and couple of 5-0 in MODO and doing very good online. Since the gap between Tier 1 and Tier 2 is not as huge as Modern, it's much easier to brew. Basically, this is the reason I am playing the format.

I mean, answers? Pioneer has a lots of them. For example, one complaint I have from Modern is Tron. In Pioneer, you have Field of Ruin, Damping Sphere, Alpine Moon, without you having to play against such game 1 decks.
The power of answers is a variable thats determined by the efficiency and resilience of the threats, there are People Who seem to think that the threat/answer power level is bigger In pioneer compared to Modern but those are the People Who didnt really take a close look at the format:

At a first glance you have No Bolt, No path, No fon, No iok

But you also dont have to worry about:
1) tron, amulet titan, valakut even though you still have field of ruin

2) a reach Based Burn deck that can disregard the board if ahead on the race and simply kill you with a barrage of 3-4 dmg Burn spells (but theres still a fair share of life gain In the format, In fact only timely and helix are notable absences)

3) the dredge mechanic and various gy strategies that have plagued Modern for ages, but you still have access to legacy level gy hate like leyline of the void, rip, toemods crypt and others

4)a number of uninteractive combo decks, which even have T2-T3 kills, you dont need 0 cmc counters if you literally cant die before t3, but we still have ts

5)a number of low tier decks that atrack from all kinda of weird angles and demand efficient universal answers and again we still have ts
(borrowed by the pioneer thread)
I'm gonna try to keep this brief because I don't want to talk about Pioneer too much here and am not too interested in the format. It has a low power level. I don't enjoy that. That gives me a Standard feel of casting creatures better than my opponent or lose, with the exception of some powerful combo decks like Lotus Breach, Inverter, and Heliod Ballista.

I've seen many people complain about these decks. I've seen Lotus Breach have terrible win percentages in several tournaments and people still complain. I see a lot of complaining about Inverter and I actually get it there. I think something has to go as well - you can't have the Twin of the format having access to Thoughtseize and Dig Through Time in a powered down format. That wouldn't even be acceptable in Modern.

Honestly I haven't played enough to try brews. I've played Sultai Midrange and Mono Black Aggro in tournament play. Before Oko got chopped, I played Simic "Ramp." (not the Ulamog type)

As for lack of Amulet, I play Amulet and I have played Titanshift in the past. I enjoy those decks. As for Red not being able to burn you out, I'd probably prefer that to a Red deck that can just keep on pouring on the damage or hit me for 50 damage with an equipment. I had an opponent at a 5K that had Questing Beast with Embercleave on it. Many decks have barely any outs to this, whereas in Modern I always feel like there's multiple avenues of getting out of something. I'm a Combo player and I have figured out how to win when almost all win-cons are exiled, there's an Ensnaring Bridge in play, a Blood Moon, or whatever other adversity. There's just many different options. I played Elementals before the quarantine in Modern and ended at 57-17. I could never do that with any deck as interesting as Elementals in Pioneer. (there is a list; the creator of Modern Elementals gave it to me and it's cool, but I'm unimpressed with it's theoretical win ratio)

*This is without any mention of the ban list and how ban happy WotC was before they decided that they will not ban anything else (Inverter pieces or Lotus Breach pieces). I hear all the time stuff like this, "why is Oath banned, why is Leyline of Abundance banned?" Modern definitely has many hypocritical bans, but for a format to start out like this immediately, says a lot. (why is Oath banned, but Dig Through Time not banned?)
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - MBA, UB Inverter
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Yawmoth Chord, Uroza
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by ktkenshinx » 11 months ago

I'm not a fan of these posts that are promoting Pioneer in the State of Modern thread. If anyone, @Greeksis or otherwise, wants to do that in the State of Pioneer thread, that's totally fine. Not really an appropriate topic here and I'm not going to engage much with that line of conversation in this thread.

Here's the soft launch of my Weeks 4-5 meta breakdown along with companion ban/mechanic change thoughts. As in previous soft launches, please don't circulate until it's "live" tomorrow morning. Just posting it here for focused feedback from dedicated Modern players:

https://mtgmodernmetrics.wordpress.com/ ... on-crisis/

In summary, the metagame is a disaster and companions are everywhere. Bans and/or mechanical changes are needed at this point in order to keep Modern on course. Here's our current metagame from April through present with 920+ datapoints:

1. Prowess: 11.4% (106)
2. Burn: 8.6% (80)
3. Jund: 7.9% (73)
4. Amulet Titan: 4.6% (43)
5. Ponza: 4.6% (43)
6. Devoted Devastation: 4.4% (41)
7. Eldrazi Tron: 4% (37)
8. Temur Urza: 3.4% (32)
9. Bant Snow Control: 3.2% (30)
10. Humans: 3.1% (29)
11. Hardened Scales: 2.8% (26)
12. Ad Nauseam: 2.7% (25)
13. Bogles: 2.4% (22)
14. Mono G Tron: 2.3% (21)
15. The Rock: 1.7% (16)
16. Scapeshift: 1.7% (16)
17. 5C Niv: 1.6% (15)
18. Azorius Control: 1.6% (15)
19. Dredge: 1.5% (14)
20. Grixis Delver: 1.4% (13)
21. 4C Uro Snow Control: 1.4% (13)

Companions are in 70%+ of top-tier decks and Lurrus is in around 50%. R&D needs to save us from their mess before we can even start discussing the other foundational game/management issues. Feel free to reply to this post or @ me with any ideas, criticisms, changes, etc.
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 11 months ago

Greeksis wrote:
11 months ago
You are a Legacy player at heart, FoodChainGoblins, and I deeply respect that. You would probably play Legacy, but you do play Modern, because it's easier to. That's why I said "
- They should at least make Vintage unsanctioned, move past Legacy identity into the current modern format.
- Move Pioneer into what Modern was before ("Let you tap into your collection to expand upon established decks and familiar strategies from Magic's recent past" and other format visions). Port Pioneer into Arena faster.
"

I just wanted to jump into & say you can brew in Pioneer, easier than Modern. Because the top dogs in Modern are nearly unbeatable.
It's true. I love Legacy, although Modern was a very close favorite. As for right now with Veil, AA, and definitely Companions, I don't really like any of those formats all that much.

I want to revisit how easy it is to brew in Modern after Lurrus is banned. If there are further cleanup bans like AA and Veil, possibly Uro and Mystic Sanctuary, then I want to revisit how much I enjoy Modern. Like I said to others, I've had fun since Modern started around 2012 with the exception of 2 times, Eldrazi and Hogaak. I do also think Oko and Cruise/Pod were messed up, but I enjoyed myself. And if anyone says that any other time in Modern was terrible, I won't say it to their face, but I think they're being a crybaby. I was not ban happy at all until I became a Modern player.

*I should also clarify that I played a lot during Eldrazi and Hogaak, so I didn't hate playing those decks too much. The only time I really am starting to feel seriously about not wanting to play (other than when a ban happened and it took me a week to get over it) is right now with Companions, but even now, I'd give it the old college try!
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - MBA, UB Inverter
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Yawmoth Chord, Uroza
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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Post by cfusionpm » 11 months ago

ktkenshinx wrote:
11 months ago
Companions are in 70%+ of top-tier decks and Lurrus is in around 50%. R&D needs to save us from their mess before we can even start discussing the other foundational game/management issues. Feel free to reply to this post or @ me with any ideas, criticisms, changes, etc.
A lot of what it comes down to is the stance on whether or not its acceptable to have such a strong permeation of Companions throughout the entire format. Sure, you could say things are "diverse," (and Wizards IS saying it's diverse), but when 70% of decks are playing Companions (and 50% are JUST Lurrus), this is not diversity. It's forcing a fundamental change in the foundation of what the game was built upon: shuffling your deck with up to 4 copies of a card and starting by drawing your opening hand at random. Without clarity from Wizards for what they want (or expect) from Modern, there's really no productive discussion that can happen. Because without a goal to work towards, or a vision to try and get to, any of our efforts to make suggestions are just self-serving, hypothetical thought experiments.

Either we live in the new world where you're doing something busted and playing Companions, or you ban more than a dozen cards, in addition to the Companions and try to capture some semblance of an unf*cked Modern. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground. And WOTC's stance that the Companion-dominated meta is "diverse" is both terrifying and vomit-inducing.

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Post by The Fluff » 11 months ago

thanks, shared it to my thread in mtgs.
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want to play a uw control deck in modern, but don't have Jace or snapcaster? please come visit us at the Emeria thread

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Post by idSurge » 11 months ago

@ktkenshinx

Perhaps cut this, inflammatory and your audience is already inflamed.

"Yuck. If that's not the perfect firestorm for a format often accused of producing goldfish Magic games, I don't know what is."

I would remove 'Ban Mishra's Bauble' as a solution. We all know that is not a solution. That is a cop out, and I would not even give Wizard's the out for it. If you leave it, you need to make it clear that banning Bauble alone would be a massive mistake.

Good article as usual, I would perhaps add a very directed plea to Forsythe for a Modern (and non-rotational constructed if we could be so lucky) stance, because until we get to some real honest to god truth out of them, we will continue to just be put on a treadmill of non-committal, vapid answers.
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Post by FoodChainGoblins » 11 months ago

idSurge wrote:
11 months ago
ktkenshinx

Perhaps cut this, inflammatory and your audience is already inflamed.

"Yuck. If that's not the perfect firestorm for a format often accused of producing goldfish Magic games, I don't know what is."

I would remove 'Ban Mishra's Bauble' as a solution. We all know that is not a solution. That is a cop out, and I would not even give Wizard's the out for it. If you leave it, you need to make it clear that banning Bauble alone would be a massive mistake.

Good article as usual, I would perhaps add a very directed plea to Forsythe for a Modern (and non-rotational constructed if we could be so lucky) stance, because until we get to some real honest to god truth out of them, we will continue to just be put on a treadmill of non-committal, vapid answers.
I have some friends from FNM that I talk to on WhatsApp. A couple of them thought that banning Mishra's Bauble may be the correct call. This is what I told them. Lurrus/Bauble is just the best thing to be doing right now. It will easily move on to Lurrus/Nihil Spellbomb or Lurrus/Chromatic Star. Yes, they argued that it cost more mana. I also argued that it does indeed, but at least it's not a delayed draw, which makes it not even STRICTLY worse. It's just not the best thing to be doing right now; that is Lurrus/Bauble. The issue is not Bauble. It would be Bauble if Bauble were the Companion. Bauble has never been a problem before. Just the fact that any kind of permanent can be brought back late game from a card that is in a free zone is a huge issue. I feel like a semi-convinced one of the guys, but the other player is a Prowess player, so I can see his bias to hope that he can play it when paper resumes. I personally think that would be too far off and I don't think it's worth ruining Modern and turning Magic into 5 Secret Lairs per month is worth Lurrus staying.

BTW, I mentioned Yorion. I originally said that Lurrus should definitely eat a ban and Yorion probably should. I think we're at that point where Yorion does indeed need a ban. When OUaT was banned, everyone moved on to Arcum's Astrolabe. When Lurrus is banned, everyone will move on to Yorion. That is not acceptable. Although Companion is terrible, I don't think any of the other Companions need a ban right now, but I will say that Gyruda may enter that need (I doubt it, as it can be interacted with somewhat easily).

*I should also state this. There is not a single person anywhere that has a complaint about Mishra's Bauble, outside of what Lurrus of the Dream-Den and Emry, Lurker of the Loch are doing. Not one. Do these people even start to think of how those cards are influencing their decisions and that they indeed may be the problem? No, why think that? Urza wasn't the problem, according to WotC; Mox Opal was. So in the future, we can't really blame people for thinking overpowered new cards are not the problem, semi powered old cards ARE the problem. How can we blame them when the company that determines the ban list tells them this, constantly?

**BTW, Krark-Clan Ironworks was a card in a fringe deck (Eggs 2) that was fine until Scrap Trawler showed up. Makes ya think, right? :hmm: :hmm:
Last edited by FoodChainGoblins 11 months ago, edited 1 time in total.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - MBA, UB Inverter
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Yawmoth Chord, Uroza
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

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