[Official] State of Modern Thread (B&R 07/13/2020)

blkdemonight
Posts: 80
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by blkdemonight » 11 months ago

cfusionpm wrote:
11 months ago
Simto wrote:
11 months ago
blkdemonight wrote:
11 months ago
I like commander but I don't care for concepts like" expressing my identity"
I always found that so weird. "Expressing my identity through a game of cards", it sounds pretty sad really.
I like using sleeves with some artwork I think looks cool and I'll pick a card with the artwork I like, but just because I like it, not because "I'm expressing my identity" lol.
I always find it weird the surveys they put out have qustions like that.
That's ok. I like playing certain styles of decks. I like playing certain kinds of cards. I would consider that an "identity" as much as anything else. I would never be caught dead playing Tron, just like others would never in their lives want to cast Cryptic Command. Sleeves and art are an expression as well. I love alternate arts, promos, foils, full arts, and special versions of cards, which also slots into what could be considered an "identity." It's just the things that you like or are special to you for whatever reason.

But I totally understand that for many people (especially those who roam from deck to deck staying at the top of the competitive field, regardless of archetype or cards) it seems silly or unimportant. And that's ok too.

The survey questions usually seek to quantify this "illogical" desire for certain things over others, regardless of relative strength or presence. It's an emotional investment in the things we do. "I'm a Tron player" "I'm an Infect player" "I'm the Snap/Bolt player" "I'm the guy with mismatched basics" "I'm the one with the fully foiled Jund list" etc. These are all "identities" to many players. Especially ones heavily invested in their deck/format.

Edit: I'll add that even in Commander, I stray sometimes. Although pretty much every deck I have runs Islands, my first deck didn't (Teysa) and one of my current ones does not (Zacama). Though they are also the decks I play the least. Teysa has since been parted out, and Zacama is frequently what I let others play. It's really hard for me to want to play something that doesn't have Islands.
This is how I see it for commander. If I like a commander for wheels and deals jank such as Nekusar, I'll play it. If I like the art of a commander while also playing in a way I like such as Teysa, Orzhov scion I'll use them. If I want to play bunch of degenerate combos I'll go with Breya or Tasigur. If I want to play fun tribal I'll stick with that grixis pirate Legendary or Kaalia. Otherwise I'll play Markov, Azami or Edric spymaster just to make people mad at obnoxious tribals.

Maro needs to explain himself better in that poll. He should ask what kind of cards should appear in Standard so that they add to non rotating format experience to prop marginal decks or play styles not relevant.

User avatar
Albegas
Posts: 126
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Albegas » 11 months ago

cfusionpm wrote:
11 months ago
idSurge wrote:
11 months ago
Cats gonna get gone.

1) I missed the time window by about 10 hours
2) They conveniently did not mention Modern.
I think it's important to remember that Vintage/Legacy are effectively online formats only. They don't need to wait for paper data because there will never be paper data.

I also know that there's probably no point in waiting for Modern Paper data because it'll inevitably mirror online trends. However, I think there is value in having those numbers so that when the inevitable clamor for an unban comes, WotC can at least say that the ban wasn't a knee jerk reaction, Numbers speak a lot louder than, "If you played back then, you would know".

Of course, they've never had to deal with a pandemic shutting down paper data, so it wouldn't surprise me if they're still debating if it's OK to make Modern bans based only on online results if they know that they could be at least a month before even LGSs will be open, let alone when we'll see SCG level tourneys.

User avatar
FoodChainGoblins
Level 47
Posts: 815
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Riverside

Post by FoodChainGoblins » 11 months ago

idSurge wrote:
11 months ago
All I can say, is voice that opinion. Maro is reading everything, I'm sure of it.

Lurrus will probably go in Modern, they absolutely love to let us suffer, but Vintage/Legacy are a bonfire right now, they cannot persist as they are now.
This. ^

I didn't know how to word it best, but it is imperative that it is banned in Vintage and Legacy. As for Modern, it's not as imperative because as you can see, I've found plenty of people (smart people) who think it is fine in Modern. :unamused:
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - MBA, UB Inverter
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Yawmoth Chord, Uroza
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

User avatar
idSurge
Posts: 1121
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by idSurge » 11 months ago

I question how smart they are if they think its fine. Unless its 'fine' in relation to all the other damaging decks that exist.
UR Control UR

User avatar
FoodChainGoblins
Level 47
Posts: 815
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Riverside

Post by FoodChainGoblins » 11 months ago

idSurge wrote:
11 months ago
I question how smart they are if they think its fine. Unless its 'fine' in relation to all the other damaging decks that exist.
They are incredible Magic players that are well respected in the community. The level of play from some of these players is pretty close to regular Pro Tour players (most have been on the Pro Tour a few times).

I think it's either that the streamers have made an agreement to say the same thing, so that a bunch of their cards that they've been putting many hours play testing don't get banned. Or it's just that they like it. They enjoy the play. I mean, I enjoyed Eldrazi and Hogaak because I won a lot. Still, I knew it was terrible for Modern and I didn't have many opponents. I had a deck, RG Breach, that won a lot during the Treasure Cruise Delver and Rhino Pod times. For a while, I felt that players just needed to adapt. I will admit this. But I learned that the way to adapt was too warping and it's better just to ban cards that are too powerful (Treasure Cruise) or push other stuff out (Birthing Pod).

I can recognize this and even if it is "all about me," well all about me means I want lots of opponents. If I win a 25 person tournament, I will get way less prize support than a 75 person tournament. Top 8ing a 25 person tournament won't get much.
Top 8ing a 75 person tournament is usually pretty solid. That's just simple math.

*I use the term "enjoyed" loosely because I enjoy winning, but those decks made me feel sick for playing them at times. I mean, I'd feel worse not playing them and losing though, so it's a trade off.

**I should also say that I realize the RG Breach deck was a prime example of those decks warping the meta - main deck 4 Chalice of the Void, 4 Obstinate Baloth, and 4 Anger of the Gods, yes pretty warping.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - MBA, UB Inverter
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Yawmoth Chord, Uroza
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

User avatar
idSurge
Posts: 1121
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by idSurge » 11 months ago

I have a feeling that its more that in Modern its gained acceptance that the mechanic isnt going away, and its just going to be one more obnoxious mechanic that we will endure, for a very very long time.

Since they could look at Hoggak, or Lurrus in Vintage/Legacy, to see what 'real' warping is, they are just going to leave us alone and let it be one more thing.
UR Control UR

User avatar
RattingRots
Posts: 398
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by RattingRots » 11 months ago

I'm not a competitive player, but Mark Rosewater's current community engagement about printing format-affecting cards really reminds me of this:

Schrodinger goes to the doctor's office. The doctor says "I have good news and I have bad news."

User avatar
Albegas
Posts: 126
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Albegas » 11 months ago

I think it's the fault of the medium and not MaRo specifically, but I've definitely noticed that the polls always have at least one voice pointing out that the poll topics are too open to interpretation. The newest one is a really good example: sure I'd love for new Standard sets to always have cards with impact on Modern/Legacy, but I want small, incremental pushes like Fatal Push, not Uro or Lurrus. Last poll was like that too: Push is a nice "surprise" but Lurrus isn't. The character limit of Twitter really pollutes the discussion quality, and I hope that the WotC heads reading these Twitter responses understand that two people choosing the same Twitter Poll response may not actually agree with each other 100%. I also want to leave my house to go to work, sit down in a restaurant, and get a pet unicorn, but hopefully they'll identify the flaws of Twitter polls before I get my unicorn.

metalmusic_4
Posts: 260
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by metalmusic_4 » 11 months ago

First, I'm glad they are handling lurrus at least in legacy/vintage because those formats were on fire, hopefully he will get banned in modern too. Ban lurrus, not bauble because that would be silly.

Now, 2 things:
1) They may not ban lurrus in modern next week, or they still could. Often with high profile bans we have gotten unbans. Not every time, but there are several examples over the years. Does anyone predict any unbans at this time? I personally would love that but I expect they would not at this time.

2) there has been a notion for a while that if a card is banned in legacy it is not worth mentioning here as an unban target. In the beginning WOTC did use legacy as an excuse to ban cards in modern, but they seem to be getting away from that a bit. Wren and six is banned in legacy but not modern, and it appears they may do the same with lurrus at least for now. There may be more examples that have changed, there have been so many bans recently. Do you guys still feel any card banned in legacy is dead as a topic of discussion for unbans in modern or is sentiment starting to change?

User avatar
FoodChainGoblins
Level 47
Posts: 815
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Riverside

Post by FoodChainGoblins » 11 months ago

Unfortunately I doubt there will be any unbans. I feel like their focus needs to be on a lot of bans and that is enough for them to focus on for now.

I don't think it completely excludes cards from being legal in Modern, but it can be a good indicator. I remember the card Gitaxian Probe. This card saw play in Modern ever since it was printed. I never saw anyone complain about this card until only Infect got too good (right before Probe and GGT ended up getting banned, while Fatal Push was printed). I only saw it a little bit near the end, mostly because the Infect deck and to a lesser extent, Death's Shadow Zoo were really strong. WotC talked about Probe and how they wanted to ban it for a while and how powerful it is. After that, I never heard anyone say that Probe wasn't too good. Most people put it in the same category as Mental Misstep. I don't see it like that. I don't even think it got too good in Legacy, even if it was freaking annoying that your Delver opponent always knew your opening 7 and possibly later on.

But to be clear, I don't think it would be a dead topic. I just feel that WotC is not considering unbans. I know many of their own employees endorse some unbans, but we'll see. I've been wrong before. When SfM eventually got unbanned, I was SHOCKED at the timing. (I had thought it would be unbanned for years, was wrong, finally gave up, then BAM!)
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - MBA, UB Inverter
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Yawmoth Chord, Uroza
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

User avatar
The Fluff
is this so?
Posts: 1940
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: Gradius Home World
Contact:

Post by The Fluff » 11 months ago

I'm content with modern right now. Don't have the cards yet, due to my country blocking USPS shipping.. but the imagination of playing companions with my playgroup looks to be fun. We are already planning what decks to use when the corona lockdown ends.

Maybe wotc allows Lurrus to rampage, tear up people for awhile.. then they ban him, and apologize with green sun unban. :)
Image
AnimEVO 2020 - EFZ Tournament (english commentary) // OE 2016 // POF 2018
want to play a uw control deck in modern, but don't have Jace or snapcaster? please come visit us at the Emeria thread

User avatar
cfusionpm
With that on the stack...
Posts: 1109
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: California, USA
Contact:

Post by cfusionpm » 11 months ago

metalmusic_4 wrote:
11 months ago
1) They may not ban lurrus in modern next week, or they still could. Often with high profile bans we have gotten unbans. Not every time, but there are several examples over the years. Does anyone predict any unbans at this time? I personally would love that but I expect they would not at this time.
All I know is I have 36 regular paper copies, 8 foil copies, and 40 MTGO copies of Splinter Twin waiting for them to do the right thing. But watch them do something meaningless and inconsequential like GSZ or more realistically, no unbans at all.

User avatar
Mikefon
Posts: 29
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Modena (Italy)
Contact:

Post by Mikefon » 11 months ago

Lurrus engine without bauble is at least 1 turn slower and costs 2 to keep drawing cards. A turn in modern can drive a deck from being tier 1 to almost unplayable. I think it would be played in a way less number of decks and maybe become even worse than Yorion.

User avatar
FoodChainGoblins
Level 47
Posts: 815
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Riverside

Post by FoodChainGoblins » 11 months ago

Mikefon wrote:
11 months ago
Lurrus engine without bauble is at least 1 turn slower and costs 2 to keep drawing cards. A turn in modern can drive a deck from being tier 1 to almost unplayable. I think it would be played in a way less number of decks and maybe become even worse than Yorion.
Bauble is just the best thing to be doing with Lurrus right now. You don't think that would change to Nihil Spellbomb or something else immediately if Bauble were banned?

I don't understand why people and more importantly, WotC, want to jump through hoops just to keep a card legal. Mox Opal was banned instead of Urza, Lord High Artificer. What's next to go so that Urza can stay, Arcum's Astrolabe, then Sword of the Meek reban, then Ensnaring Bridge, Talisman?

I personally feel that we should try to avoid Mishra's Workshop situations in Modern, where a card has to be banned every 2 sets just so Mishra's Workshop can remain legal. For that format, Vintage, that's fine imo, but not so much for Modern, imo of course.

*I mean, WotC could have kept Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis legal if they wanted. I said it right here; ban Gravecrawler, ban Bloodghast, ban Stitcher's Supplier, and ban Overgrown Tomb and then Hogaak is fine. Maybe those cards and Bridge from Below are the problems, not Hogaak? :poop: :poop: :poop:
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - MBA, UB Inverter
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Yawmoth Chord, Uroza
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

metalmusic_4
Posts: 260
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by metalmusic_4 » 11 months ago

Sometimes in the Ban announcements they site that there are a few cards in the deck they are looking at and they decided to ban the card that is most likely to re-offend. Clear examples of this sited in the announcement were bridge from below and the original GGT announcement from like 2011, there are probably more. (I think they did this for mox opal, dread return and git prob too) Using this as precedent i think for sure they would ban lurrus, not bauble.

However also using the bridge from below example you could say they got it wrong first and purposefully banned the old card to keep selling the new card hogaak. There are obvious comparisons to what's happening now. Later they had to correct it and banned hogaak, but that does not cover up what they did originally.

There are more examples pointing to banning lurrus, but it's also possible they ban bauble. That would be a shame.

blkdemonight
Posts: 80
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by blkdemonight » 11 months ago

Like I've said before I could see Wizards hitting bauble just to repeat Hogaak while saying bauble was a problem before like fueling delirium in Death's Shadow decks.

Aazadan
Posts: 516
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him

Post by Aazadan » 11 months ago

metalmusic_4 wrote:
11 months ago
1) They may not ban lurrus in modern next week, or they still could. Often with high profile bans we have gotten unbans. Not every time, but there are several examples over the years. Does anyone predict any unbans at this time? I personally would love that but I expect they would not at this time.
I think they have to ban Lurrus in Modern as well. I gave an argument a few pages back and I stand by it. The combination of companion rules and Lurrus text is an absolute nightmare in terms of what it does to available design space left in Modern. This card shrinks the effective design space by so much, that Wizards essentially loses 99.99% of their ability to create new cards for the format.

Any permanent over 2 CMC except for Lurrus is gone. Planeswalkers (this is especially huge), larger creatures, enchantments, all of it. But that's not all, it also means that non permanents that are removal must be 1 to 2 mana as well, or provide overwhelming amounts of value. And, if all that isn't bad enough, it creates another Snapcaster Mage problem, which already seriously freaked them out the first time Snapcaster Mage came out.

Finally, what really does Lurrus in is that the hybrid nature makes it playable in almost anything that wants to play it. Of the 10 3 color combinations, only one can't cast Lurrus and that combination (red, green, blue) can typically make black/white mana if it really wanted to.

The card simply restricts too many future designs because it completely redefines the concept of what is playable in the format.

User avatar
drmarkb
Posts: 553
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by drmarkb » 11 months ago

RattingRots wrote:
11 months ago
I'm not a competitive player, but Mark Rosewater's current community engagement about printing format-affecting cards really reminds me of this:

I actually use that in my lessons looking at the use of surveys in science.................

User avatar
drmarkb
Posts: 553
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by drmarkb » 11 months ago

They mention Legacy, Brawl, Vintage.
Don't expect any other bans.
They pour water on the biggest fires, not all the fires. Modern will be no change. There are several options for L and V
For L
(a) Straight Lurrus ban
(b) As- companion ban for Lurus or Lurus + X companions (still allowed main, X= monolith abusing, cloning to a chain win or 80 card abusing, depending on which or they deem the worse)
(c) Straight Lurrus Ban, plus X companion(s) as above
(d) Lurus + astrolabe + up to X companions

For Vintage straight bans can't happen easily, restriction won't work, so I think it will be a companion zone ban, and for symmetry that can go for both. I think the final piece is a astrolabe ban, called for by many and they like to throw the whole apple cart at times like these to distract from the huge cock ups....

User avatar
Mikefon
Posts: 29
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Modena (Italy)
Contact:

Post by Mikefon » 11 months ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
11 months ago
Mikefon wrote:
11 months ago
Lurrus engine without bauble is at least 1 turn slower and costs 2 to keep drawing cards. A turn in modern can drive a deck from being tier 1 to almost unplayable. I think it would be played in a way less number of decks and maybe become even worse than Yorion.
Bauble is just the best thing to be doing with Lurrus right now. You don't think that would change to Nihil Spellbomb or something else immediately if Bauble were banned?

I don't understand why people and more importantly, WotC, want to jump through hoops just to keep a card legal. Mox Opal was banned instead of Urza, Lord High Artificer. What's next to go so that Urza can stay, Arcum's Astrolabe, then Sword of the Meek reban, then Ensnaring Bridge, Talisman?

I personally feel that we should try to avoid Mishra's Workshop situations in Modern, where a card has to be banned every 2 sets just so Mishra's Workshop can remain legal. For that format, Vintage, that's fine imo, but not so much for Modern, imo of course.

*I mean, WotC could have kept Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis legal if they wanted. I said it right here; ban Gravecrawler, ban Bloodghast, ban Stitcher's Supplier, and ban Overgrown Tomb and then Hogaak is fine. Maybe those cards and Bridge from Below are the problems, not Hogaak? :poop: :poop: :poop:
Spellbomb costs 1B to draw a card. I think it can be ok.
Opal was the correct ban anyways. For as much as I suffer for that ban due to being a former affinity player, I think that free mana hasn't room in modern.
And the same for bauble. I love the card,but free cycler with upside (being an artifact and giving a small piece of information) may not be a thing for modern. I think that new cards deserves to be the "saved" one as long as they don't become Oko or Hogaak. Otherwhise the game becomes stale.
They surely have to slow down in printing broken things though. They can't do it every single set.

User avatar
Tzoulis
Posts: 279
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by Tzoulis » 11 months ago

Mikefon wrote:
11 months ago
Opal was the correct ban anyways. For as much as I suffer for that ban due to being a former affinity player, I think that free mana hasn't room in modern.
And the same for bauble. I love the card,but free cycler with upside (being an artifact and giving a small piece of information) may not be a thing for modern
Opal was the wrong ban and Bauble being a delayed cycler is bad. Also, bauble being an artifact isn't even relevant since the artifact decks -we'll see how scales will do without Lurrus- are nonexistent. Urza decks aren't even artifact decks, there's no incentive of going into artifact synergies anymore without Opal. If they ban Bauble to save Lurrus, then there is no point in even considering non-Scales artifact decks until they print relevant artifacts or artifact synergies. I still hold that they should have either banned Urza straight up or ban Emry and increase the effectiveness of spot artifact removal and general value one would gain from them.

Lastly, you think Lurrus + Chromatic Star/Sphere won't be as obnoxius as Bauble + Lurrus? In effect it's the same -albeit 1 turn slower, plus they get the card immediately. Besides, the problem isn't the speed of the decks, but their consistency and grinding capability that Lurrus gives them.

User avatar
idSurge
Posts: 1121
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by idSurge » 11 months ago

I honestly question anyone's claiming to having played with Lurrus, if they think just banning bauble is the fix.

I get it, people like to win, people like to do powerful things. In no world is a repeatable Snap's for permanents, in a format where finding cheap (cmc) cards is easy, is acceptable.

Play the card on Arena. Its cheap as %$#%, and you will immediately recognize how powerful it is.
UR Control UR

User avatar
The Fluff
is this so?
Posts: 1940
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted
Location: Gradius Home World
Contact:

Post by The Fluff » 11 months ago

blkdemonight wrote:
11 months ago
Like I've said before I could see Wizards hitting bauble just to repeat Hogaak while saying bauble was a problem before like fueling delirium in Death's Shadow decks.
this I feel is what's going to happen soon..
Image
AnimEVO 2020 - EFZ Tournament (english commentary) // OE 2016 // POF 2018
want to play a uw control deck in modern, but don't have Jace or snapcaster? please come visit us at the Emeria thread

User avatar
FoodChainGoblins
Level 47
Posts: 815
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: he / him
Location: Riverside

Post by FoodChainGoblins » 11 months ago

Aazadan wrote:
11 months ago
metalmusic_4 wrote:
11 months ago
1) They may not ban lurrus in modern next week, or they still could. Often with high profile bans we have gotten unbans. Not every time, but there are several examples over the years. Does anyone predict any unbans at this time? I personally would love that but I expect they would not at this time.
I think they have to ban Lurrus in Modern as well. I gave an argument a few pages back and I stand by it. The combination of companion rules and Lurrus text is an absolute nightmare in terms of what it does to available design space left in Modern. This card shrinks the effective design space by so much, that Wizards essentially loses 99.99% of their ability to create new cards for the format.

Any permanent over 2 CMC except for Lurrus is gone. Planeswalkers (this is especially huge), larger creatures, enchantments, all of it. But that's not all, it also means that non permanents that are removal must be 1 to 2 mana as well, or provide overwhelming amounts of value. And, if all that isn't bad enough, it creates another Snapcaster Mage problem, which already seriously freaked them out the first time Snapcaster Mage came out.

Finally, what really does Lurrus in is that the hybrid nature makes it playable in almost anything that wants to play it. Of the 10 3 color combinations, only one can't cast Lurrus and that combination (red, green, blue) can typically make black/white mana if it really wanted to.

The card simply restricts too many future designs because it completely redefines the concept of what is playable in the format.
This reminds me of just a week ago when Todd Anderson was getting back into streaming Modern. He faced Arcum's Astrolabe, Uro, Titan, Veil of Summer, and T3feri and he said, "why does everything have to have 'draw a card?' Can't any cards stand on their own?"

That was pretty funny to me and Lurrus restricting future designs has meaning to me if WotC wants to continue to put "draw a card" on everything good that they print now. And the hybrid nature definitely is a problem. I read here on mtgnexus that someone said Lurrus should have cost WWBB. That would have made it more restrictive and at first, I thought the mana cost was too high. But for what Lurrus actually does, maybe that is a good cost.
Standard - Will pick up what's good when paper starts
Pre Modern - Do not own anymore
Pioneer - MBA, UB Inverter
Modern - Amulet Titan, Elementals, Yawmoth Chord, Uroza
Legacy - No more cards, will rebuy Sneak Show when I can
Limited - Will start when paper starts
Commander - Nope

User avatar
idSurge
Posts: 1121
Joined: 1 year ago
Pronoun: Unlisted

Post by idSurge » 11 months ago

FoodChainGoblins wrote:
11 months ago
This reminds me of just a week ago when Todd Anderson was getting back into streaming Modern. He faced Arcum's Astrolabe, Uro, Titan, Veil of Summer, and T3feri and he said, "why does everything have to have 'draw a card?' Can't any cards stand on their own?"

That was pretty funny to me and Lurrus restricting future designs has meaning to me if WotC wants to continue to put "draw a card" on everything good that they print now. And the hybrid nature definitely is a problem. I read here on mtgnexus that someone said Lurrus should have cost WWBB. That would have made it more restrictive and at first, I thought the mana cost was too high. But for what Lurrus actually does, maybe that is a good cost.
It's actually absurd, if you play Standard at all you see this come up in nearly every single game, and as the removal powers up (the further away from Standard one gets) you see it at lower and lower CMC, until its Veil, or Astrolabe, and you just again get to a point I've mentioned many times now.

There is only so low in cost one can go for these types of effects. Wizards is printing itself into a hole and while Maro may think we are nowhere near the event horizon, I disagree.

How much more powerful can we go, before old formats are simply Standard? When threats from Standard are SO GOOD they compete with 25 years of design space, and 25 years of NOTED mistakes, where can we possibly go?

I am playing Arena now during this quarantine since I had sold out of MTGO. My deck is UR Flash + Yidaro, and its surprisingly competitive, you can dumpster decks trying to curve out, or that Adventure Temur deck for example BUT!

If someone is able to slip one of the value engines into play (1 card mind you in many cases) there is simply no coming back from it. Everything is about additional value, and snowballing impact until you are absolutely buried.

Its insane how powerful standard is.
UR Control UR

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Return to “Modern”